need help, S13 SR20 Redtop No spark

[doridoridori]

As the title states, I'm having a no spark issue. I'll give a rundown of what happened up until it won't start again.

Long story short my turbo went out so i replaced it with the same turbo just new. S15 T28. After installing the turbo later that night I went out to eat with friends, went downtown and late that night the car just died on me while driving like 5-10mph. Tried to start it again and it cranked but got nothing.

Towed the car home, I ended up buying 2 maf's because I had a maf go bad on me once and it just fell on it's face so I was under the assumption it was that but I was wrong. Tried 2 Z32 Mafs (im running an enthalpy tuned ecu), the first maf i put in the car started up, ran for a few mins then fell on it's face and wouldn't turn on again after.

The next day I put another maf in and it started up but died a minute or so after and would not come back on. I checked all my fuses and non of them are bad. Later that day I figured let me check for spark so i left the coil packs plugged up to their designated connectors, put a screw driver at the end of each coil pack and got no spark at all. I did have a CAS go bad once long time ago so a buddy of mine brought a good CAS off his running car by, stabbed it properly and still nothing. I can smell fuel, the fuel pump primes when i turn key to on position but nothing. I even picked up a good Ignitor from a buddy late tonight and figured well if i have no spark if it isn't the CAS it has to be the ignitor but after swapping the ignitor the car still won't turn on.

Any suggestions?? im starting to assume MAYBE ecu took a crap but i don't have wires all over the place that would cause the ecu to just short out but maybe they can just go bad anyway?

any help would be greatly appreciated I'm stumped at this point.

[anthony_240]

This is copied from a post on zilvia... get your test light out ...


In accordance to have spark, you need the following :

Constant power to the ECU (Pin # : 46, 109)
Switched Power(ignition) to the ECU (Pin # : 38, 47)
Ground to the ECU (Pin # : 13, 39, 48, 107, 108, 116)

Ok, those are the basic to make the ECU “work”.

Then when you crank to engine, the CAS send a signal to the ECU that tell him : "Hey, dude, i'm now at TDC of cyl # 1! Give some fuel and spark Mofo'!"

So to give spark, the coils need : 12V+ Power(Pin #2), Ground(Pin #1), and a switched ground(Pin #3)(this is the one that "trigger" the coils and make the spark, via the ignitor). (Pinout I gave is directly on the coils connectors)

To complicate the thing a little bit, Nissan decided to use an ignitor chip, which is basically just 4 transistors in a nice box. Each coil is connected to a pin of the Ignitor which is named A, B, C, D. Coil # 4 is Pin A and coil # 1 is Pin D, I let you figure out the 2 others (lolz). On the other side of the ignitor, there is 5 pins(1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Each one of those is connected to the ECU except for pin 3 that is connected to Ground. Pin # 1 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 1 of the ECU, Pin # 2 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 2 of the ECU, Pin # 4 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 8 of the ECU, Pin # 5 of the ignitor is connected to pin # 9 of the ECU. Like I said earlier, pin # 3 is connected to chassis ground(pin 13 of the ECU)

Sooooooo…, each time the CAS tell to ECU which cylinder is at, the ECU ground the corresponding pin (either 1, 2, 8, 9). When a pin is grounded, it trigger the transistor in the ignitor, which trigger a coil, which create a spark! Easy right!?

So, knowing those basics… let’s do some diagnostics. What could create a no spark condition on all plugs? Either : no voltage at the ECU, no voltage at the coils, no ground to the ECU, no ground to the coils, no ground to pin # 3 of the ignitor or no CAS signal going to the ECU.


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[S14rebuild]

If the ecu was dead, like not turning on, he'd have NO injector pulse..just sayn

Pin test ur coils... see if ur getn +12 and -12 to them

[S14rebuild]

https://imgur.com/rNRT8mf

[anthony_240]

Originally Posted by S14rebuild

If the ecu was dead, like not turning on, he'd have NO injector pulse..just sayn

Pin test ur coils... see if ur getn +12 and -12 to them

Is that all the information you got from the post I shared? It basically told him where he needed to have voltage and when.


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[S14rebuild]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

Is that all the information you got from the post I shared? It basically told him where he needed to have voltage and when.


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No..i got ALL ur info.... but most of it means shit cause he has injector pulse which means his ecu is "on"... so testn its power supplies n grounds are pointless.

But its kool seems like u have it all under co trol

Oo... mr. Anthony here is gonna fix ur car. Good luck

[anthony_240]

Originally Posted by S14rebuild

No..i got ALL ur info.... but most of it means shit cause he has injector pulse which means his ecu is "on"... so testn its power supplies n grounds are pointless.



But its kool seems like u have it all under co trol



Oo... mr. Anthony here is gonna fix ur car. Good luck

Thats the first time I hear it’s pointless to test for power.
Why you so butt hurt tho? Bf didn’t use enough lube last night? Lol


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[S14rebuild]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

Thats the first time I hear it’s pointless to test for power.
Why you so butt hurt tho? Bf didn’t use enough lube last night? Lol


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Not butt hurt at all..glad u went that path...maturity

[s13 @ fullboost]

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by s13 @ fullboost

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

yea very weird, i can check both of those in a few and update you guys.

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

Is that all the information you got from the post I shared? It basically told him where he needed to have voltage and when.


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I definitely appreciate that, I was at work all day hence the late reply. I got my hands on a test light so tomorrow morning i'll be going through all of it and following this guide. I also pulled the ecu, removed one cover at a time to inspect the board but i don't see a single burn mark and nothing looks out of place so Im assuming it's good. I'll give an update when i find something out.


p.s. - it won't let me reply to your first comment with all the info so this was my original reply.

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by s13 @ fullboost

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

yea that's very true, it's very unlikely that bolt holding the ring terminal that grounds the coilpack harness moved BUT at this point gotta check everything.

[anthony_240]

Originally Posted by doridoridori

I definitely appreciate that, I was at work all day hence the late reply. I got my hands on a test light so tomorrow morning i'll be going through all of it and following this guide. I also pulled the ecu, removed one cover at a time to inspect the board but i don't see a single burn mark and nothing looks out of place so Im assuming it's good. I'll give an update when i find something out.





p.s. - it won't let me reply to your first comment with all the info so this was my original reply.

For sure man. Good luck.


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[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by s13 @ fullboost

Make sure the coil pack sub harness ground is not loose. I doubt it but its always good to check. The fact that is fires up when you change mafs is very weird. Have you tried staring it up with the maf unplugged just for shits and giggles?

So I checked the sub pack harness ground and it's fine, wire isn't broken and it's on there tight. Also tried to start it with the maf unplugged did nothing. On top of that, last night i decided to un-do the electrical tape to the maf connector wires and brought it all the way back, didn't see a broken wire, nothing out of place.

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

For sure man. Good luck.


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now that i have a test light, i just checked for ground and power on each connector that goes each designated coil pack and i have power and ground on the pins that need ground/power. So that tells me I'm getting power where I need and ground where I need but I still find it hard to believe all the coil packs went bad at the same time. It'd be a first though.

Also when I'm checking those ecu connector pins for power, I'm assuming I disconnect the ecu but just leave key on or do I need to back probe and leave the ecu connected to the connector?

[anthony_240]

Back probe the ecu, by any chance are you getting any codes?


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[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

Back probe the ecu, by any chance are you getting any codes?


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nope nothing

[doridoridori]

(Ok so I checked pin #46, 109, I get power to these)

Constant power to the ECU (Pin # : 46, 109)

(checked switched power to these and I get power)

Switched Power(ignition) to the ECU (Pin # : 38, 47)

(and i checked ground to ecu, I get ground to all of these as I should)

Ground to the ECU (Pin # : 13, 39, 48, 107, 108, 116)


(Last night I used the test light to check all the coils and I get power and ground to the pins that need power and ground. With the "switched" ground pin #3 that is switched based on the ignitor, correct?"
and since I used a ignitor off of a friends running car it's safe to assume that should be working as long as the ignitor is good.


I checked each pin on the ecu that goes to each pin on the ignitor connector, and it gets a ground signal from my understanding. (I checked for power and ground on each pin regardless, I only get reading when I was checking for ground as i assume that how it's supposed to work, feel free to correct me if im wrong on that)


and earlier a buddy came by with his working E5 ecu, figured why not test a good ecu just to rule out that mine isn't bad and his good ecu didn't change a thing. So based on checking all of that, fingers point to the coil packs, but any second thoughts are definitely welcome. Still stumped.
[/QUOTE]

[anthony_240]

If the connectors to the coil packs are receiving power and being grounded by the ecu when it’s supposed to fire then yes your issue is your coil packs. I hope I read your response right.

Your buddy wouldn’t mind swapping coil packs real quick would he? Haha


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[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

If the connectors to the coil packs are receiving power and being grounded by the ecu when it’s supposed to fire then yes your issue is your coil packs. I hope I read your response right.

Your buddy wouldn’t mind swapping coil packs real quick would he? Haha


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yea seems to be the case, i just double checked all four of them and none are getting any spark. Also double checked all the pins for them by back probing the ecu connector while it's still connected and i get power. Going to see if my friend can come by and try one of his good coil packs. IF all four took a shit this will be the first time i ever saw that but everything else checks out. I checked every single pin on the ecu and everything is getting the power and ground signals they need.

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

If the connectors to the coil packs are receiving power and being grounded by the ecu when it’s supposed to fire then yes your issue is your coil packs. I hope I read your response right.

Your buddy wouldn’t mind swapping coil packs real quick would he? Haha


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IF it is the coil packs and i have to get new ones, any recommendations? or is oem the best route?

[s13 @ fullboost]

A lot of people use the phase 2 motoring ones. The other option is factory ones. Enjuku sells them, FRsport also sells them PN 22448-50F01.

Also you can use VQ coil packs but you will have to swap two pins iirc. There are a few write up's on this.

Good luck brother I hope you get it all worked out.

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by s13 @ fullboost

A lot of people use the phase 2 motoring ones. The other option is factory ones. Enjuku sells them, FRsport also sells them PN 22448-50F01.

Also you can use VQ coil packs but you will have to swap two pins iirc. There are a few write up's on this.

Good luck brother I hope you get it all worked out.

dope yea seems like OEM probably will be the best, well here's an update. So looks like I had a relay that went bad, after i replaced it (I believe the ECCS) relay I started to get spark at each of my coil packs but still no start.

I had used my buddys E5 ecu but I do have an enthalpy tune so maybe it should work but didn't? either way i still have a feeling it can be related to ecu given everything else seems to be working properly. I checked every single wire, took off the e tape/loom and no wires are visibly broken or seem out of place. Also IF i had a break in a wire i'd imagine that I wouldn't have power to the pins that go to the CAS, MAF, Ignitor, Coilpacks and i had good connection to all of those. Maybe it is a bad ecu, I sent my ECU to martin he's going to check it.

[s13 @ fullboost]

Originally Posted by doridoridori

dope yea seems like OEM probably will be the best, well here's an update. So looks like I had a relay that went bad, after i replaced it (I believe the ECCS) relay I started to get spark at each of my coil packs but still no start.

I had used my buddys E5 ecu but I do have an enthalpy tune so maybe it should work but didn't? either way i still have a feeling it can be related to ecu given everything else seems to be working properly. I checked every single wire, took off the e tape/loom and no wires are visibly broken or seem out of place. Also IF i had a break in a wire i'd imagine that I wouldn't have power to the pins that go to the CAS, MAF, Ignitor, Coilpacks and i had good connection to all of those. Maybe it is a bad ecu, I sent my ECU to martin he's going to check it.

Keep us updated !

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by s13 @ fullboost

Keep us updated !

well here's an update. so martin just got back to me and sent a video of my ecu plugged up to another car and it works perfectly fine so I am stumped.

one thing i didn't check is to see if the injectors are spraying fuel. I did smell fuel when it was cranking but i didn't pull the injectors to confirm 100% if they're spraying, however before I installed the CAS I got from a friend, i left the connector on it and spun the gear and could hear the injectors clicking.

my fuel pump does prime when i turn the key (pump is only a few months old (walbro 255) ).


Any other suggestions aside from that?

is it possible a fuel regulator can just take a shit like that and cause me to lose all fuel pressure maybe? I'm running out of ideas.

[jedi03]

did you disconnect fuel lines when doing this? can get hooked up backwards during reinstall...

[doridoridori]

Originally Posted by jedi03

did you disconnect fuel lines when doing this? can get hooked up backwards during reinstall...

have not touched fuel lines, car has been running fine for months up until this issue.

[doridoridori]

I have another question maf related. So I have a Z32 maf, on the engine harness side there's a white/black wire, black wire and a white wire which need to go to the Z32 maf and one of the wires off of the z32 maf need to be grounded. I was looking at the pinout on the ecu and there's 2 pins for the MAF on the ecu ( I have a E5).

Pin #16 (White) - MAF Sensor Signal Input
Pin #17 (Black) - MAF Sensor Ground

I assume those two wires go from the ecu pins directly to the MAF Connector (correct me if im wrong), The third wire (black/white) where exactly does this wire go? I don't see a third pin labeled for the MAF on the ecu pinout. I'm starting to wonder if something is going on with the wires to the maf. I know when maf's are bad you can unplug them and they should run but rough. However I can't find where this black/white maf wire goes.

[S14rebuild]

Black with white is 12volt postive i beleve soo.... ive had my hooked up to 12v key on

But even that..with the maf not on the car, you should still get fuel injector pulse and spark and the car would start..sputter and dye....


Sidenot..suprised anthony..240 hasnt solved this for u already

[TheRealSy90]

I hope all this time you've been cranking the car to test spark that you unplugged the injectors. Otherwise you're putting a ton of fuel in the cylinders.