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Old 05-16-2014, 03:14 PM   #31
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i just wanted to point out one last thing, braking. You don't have to get bigger brakes, just better components. Get pads that can stand the heat at track days, same thing with fluid. Besides increasing performance, it's also safer to push the car to your limit and still be able to brake safely if you mess up while pushing. I've seen a lot of people starting to get the hang of things and starting to push, and then having the brakes fade at the wrong part of the track. Im not trying to make anyone feel like they don't know stuff by stating obvious things, its just in case someone is reading this thread and has no idea what to do since this has turned into a nice little introduction of sorts on what stuff to look out for.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:19 PM   #32
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I 100% agree with you too Bejota!
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:27 PM   #33
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Thanks for all the input. I've been focusing on brakes (I got some R32 brakes, no pads yet), and suspension which some of you have already given your opinions on. I also got five lug hubs and am going to run some evo wheels with RS3 tires on them. I did not realize how expensive a racing seat was though. Bride seats show up often on the for sale section but the non replicas are a little out of my price range for now, so I think i'm sticking with the stock s13 seat for now. Outside of these things and obviously seat time, what other weak points are there in the car for this purpose? I have read that people do not like the VLSD very much...
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:52 PM   #34
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Seats are not expensive.... you can go with a sparco speed seat which is about 250 bux and then a frame slider or just base and that is about 100 bux... 100 more with a slider... Not bad at all...

Change all your suspension bushings, like energy black with have poly stuff built in so no binding....

You should be good after that.... Not much weak points....

LSD just get a Kaaz if you want to drift 2way or 1.5 for street/track... up to you
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #35
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Seats are not expensive.... you can go with a sparco speed seat which is about 250 bux and then a frame slider or just base and that is about 100 bux... 100 more with a slider... Not bad at all...
EXACTLY! Forget the jDm yO overpriced Bride's and stick with Sparco. Just as good quality without the "JDM tax".

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Change all your suspension bushings, like energy black with have poly stuff built in so no binding....
This is a myth. The black bushings bind when they lose lubrication just like the red's. The KEY to urethane bushings is installing zerk fittings and greasing them regularly.

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LSD just get a Kaaz if you want to drift 2way or 1.5 for street/track... up to you
This is ABSOLUTELY un-necessary for autocross or trackdays. A cheap stock VLSD will work just fine, I wouldn't advise him to even think about that untill later on when the rest of the car is set up and he's got some seat time under his belt. Don't worry about getting anything more than a VLSD unless you're drifting. In that case you could get the VLSD for autocross/track and a cheap welded diff in the pumpkin to throw in for drift days. Personally I would stay away from Kaaz anyways, the initial torque is super aggressive on them and they annoy the shit out of me...
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:42 PM   #36
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Bump from the dead. The black ES bushings are graphite impregnated and the red ones are not.

Great thread BTW. Wish there were more like this on here.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:01 AM   #37
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Agreed. Good thread.

NRR is an awesome site. Those guys know their stuff!

A few quick points:

When going with aftermarket seats, consider a roll bar. In crash tests with OEM vs Aftermarket Buckets, OEM does better when you don't have the bar. If you have the bar, buckets hold you perfectly and you're safe.

VLSD is perfect for autocross and DD, but consider helical if you start doing a lot of HPDE's.

I'm not a huge fan of poly bushings on dual duty cars but they are great for track cars with the grease fittings. I wish Hardrace made bushings for the S - chassis. Sphericals are ideal for track but good ones are expensive.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:51 PM   #38
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Good hear. I went to my first auto x event last weekend. I did okay, about halfway through the pack for time.

My biggest surprise was how much understeer I suffered from. My tires are not top of the line so obviously that would help but what other tricks are there to improve front end grip. I can add more chamber, would dropping front tire pressure be a good idea?
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:59 PM   #39
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Always more camber. Not drift-tard levels like 6*, but 3* will make it better.

More camber will allow you to drop pressure, too. You can read the edge of the tire and adjust pressures accordingly.

Also, square tire setup helps, and a bigger front bar.

Obviously tire compound is paramount for autox, so better tires will help immensely.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:07 PM   #40
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^ thats awesome about your first autox. I only ran twice this season and never in my 240...preparing it has been veryy slow. Good question, would love to hear responses from these guys.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:22 PM   #41
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It can be helped with spring rates as well... What coilovers are you running?
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:55 PM   #42
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I've read that the standard Koni Yellow x GC setup has limited travel and hits the bumpstops. Anyone have any input on this?
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:50 PM   #43
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I've read that the standard Koni Yellow x GC setup has limited travel and hits the bumpstops. Anyone have any input on this?
That has a lot to do with spring perch placement, spring rate, and spring length.

Assuming we're using stock strut housings, people tend to weld the perch closer to the ears to achieve the lowest ride height possible.

Sure, maybe it'll be okay to mount the top mounting components (spring hat, camber plates, etc.) but people forget that the have to consider that there is a external bumpstop, the springs compress a bit when the car is on the ground, and the strut has a job when driving. Before you know it, you've already have eaten up a good amount of travel.

That being said there are ways to combat this: custom housings or cutting and extending the portion below the ears.

With custom housings, however, you may as well just get 86XX's.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:58 PM   #44
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That has a lot to do with spring perch placement, spring rate, and spring length.

Assuming we're using stock strut housings, people tend to weld the perch closer to the ears to achieve the lowest ride height possible.

Sure, maybe it'll be okay to mount the top mounting components (spring hat, camber plates, etc.) but people forget that the have to consider that there is a external bumpstop, the springs compress a bit when the car is on the ground, and the strut has a job when driving. Before you know it, you've already have eaten up a good amount of travel.

That being said there are ways to combat this: custom housings or cutting and extending the portion below the ears.

With custom housings, however, you may as well just get 86XX's.
I see. The idea of doing all of the work to get the Konis into the housings is a bit worrisome to begin with, so the cutting and extending portion adds to the intimidation factor. Upgrading to custom housings would push the setup above $1K, as would going with 86XXs, so my question is, would it be alright to go with, say, a set of the Fortune Auto 500 series and call it a day? They are a little over $1K, but are simply a bolt-on affair. I've heard that radial bearings are a really good upgrade though. Those only go on the front coilovers, right?
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:18 PM   #45
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I see. The idea of doing all of the work to get the Konis into the housings is a bit worrisome to begin with, so the cutting and extending portion adds to the intimidation factor. Upgrading to custom housings would push the setup above $1K, as would going with 86XXs, so my question is, would it be alright to go with, say, a set of the Fortune Auto 500 series and call it a day? They are a little over $1K, but are simply a bolt-on affair. I've heard that radial bearings are a really good upgrade though. Those only go on the front coilovers, right?
As much as I love Fortune Auto (I've owned three of their coilovers, I now only own one), they aren't close to my Yellow Sports and S-Techs. AND I don't even have a ton of travel.

I use my Fortunes for drifting and like other coilovers I've tried/owned, they get the job done but leave a lot to be desired once you've tried Koni and Bilstein.

If you just want something to put your car low and have adjustable rebound, go with Fortunes. But if you want to make the most of your suspension, Koni or Bilstein or Ohlin or Penske. Are Koni's/Bilstein's worth the effort in labor and research, absolutely.

If you or your machinist/welder are competent, cutting and extending is a breeze. Once you gut the housings, use a pipe cutter to get a straight line and cut a section off the top, cut near the bottom of the housings and use previous cut portion to extend the bottoms. If space permits it, you could even get a spacer that goes below the strut that allows you to mount the bolt/nut on the housings even further down.

Here's a fun fact: if you can get custom housings for 8610's, you can go with Yellow Sport Eclipse rears, they're adjustable and fit S13 rears.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:19 PM   #46
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As much as I love Fortune Auto (I've owned three of their coilovers, I now only own one), they aren't close to my Yellow Sports and S-Techs. AND I don't even have a ton of travel.

I use my Fortunes for drifting and like other coilovers I've tried/owned, they get the job done but leave a lot to be desired once you've tried Koni and Bilstein.

If you just want something to put your car low and have adjustable rebound, go with Fortunes. But if you want to make the most of your suspension, Koni or Bilstein or Ohlin or Penske. Are Koni's/Bilstein's worth the effort in labor and research, absolutely.

If you or your machinist/welder are competent, cutting and extending is a breeze. Once you gut the housings, use a pipe cutter to get a straight line and cut a section off the top, cut near the bottom of the housings and use previous cut portion to extend the bottoms. If space permits it, you could even get a spacer that goes below the strut that allows you to mount the bolt/nut on the housings even further down.

Here's a fun fact: if you can get custom housings for 8610's, you can go with Yellow Sport Eclipse rears, they're adjustable and fit S13 rears.
Gotcha. Thanks for sharing your experience man, I really appreciate it.

I don't plan on drifiting, just autocross, and maybe some occasional track days but that is far far into the future. To save money, I might just do what you did and forgo the GC setup and just get some springs. Height-adjustability is not that big of a thing for me. I definitely do not plan on slamming my S13, I just want to reduce the gaping space between the fenders and tires.

What are some good spring choices to match with the yellows? I've read that progressive springs are to be avoided and that linear is the way to go.

Aside from the four Koni sports, a set of springs, and my stock housings, is there anything else I should look into to complete the setup and installation?
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Old 08-24-2014, 01:51 PM   #47
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Always more camber. Not drift-tard levels like 6*, but 3* will make it better.

More camber will allow you to drop pressure, too. You can read the edge of the tire and adjust pressures accordingly.

Also, square tire setup helps, and a bigger front bar.

Obviously tire compound is paramount for autox, so better tires will help immensely.
Thanks for the pointers. I'll add a couple degrees in before the next event. My tire's only have a max pressure, so I'm not sure how low I should take them. I had them at 30 all around.

A front sway bar is a good idea. The nose is really diving in the pictures that were taken. What would be a good size to go with. I found this thread which outlines sway bar options. I would guess you have to match it to your spring rate, so lower spring rates larger bar dia?

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=108009

I have tein super streets - 6kg front & rear. stock front bar, hicas rear.
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:35 PM   #48
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Thanks for the pointers. I'll add a couple degrees in before the next event. My tire's only have a max pressure, so I'm not sure how low I should take them. I had them at 30 all around.

A front sway bar is a good idea. The nose is really diving in the pictures that were taken. What would be a good size to go with. I found this thread which outlines sway bar options. I would guess you have to match it to your spring rate, so lower spring rates larger bar dia?

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=108009

I have tein super streets - 6kg front & rear. stock front bar, hicas rear.
Stiffer front springs are in order, I would say start with 8k. You can drill another set of adjustment holes in the front sway bar to make it stiffer. I used to run the SE 25mm front sway bar with stiffer adjustment holes drilled about 3/4" in front of the stock endlink mounting points. As for your rear bar, GET RID OF IT. The HICAS 21mm rear bar is way too stiff. With that bar combined with your soft front springs I bet the car is VERY loose on the throttle. I used to run without a rear swaybar at all and the rear grip on the throttle was MUCH improved.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:53 PM   #49
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With lowering springs I recommend upgraded front and rear bars (extra spring rate that you need).

With coilovers, it's driver preference. I run stock 15mm rear bar in my autocross car and the car works much better in steady state/constant radius cornering than it does without.
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Old 08-28-2014, 01:30 PM   #50
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I got 8kg springs on order, I am hoping they arrive before the 5th of September to try them out that sunday.

I'll stick with the bar's I have for now and see how the stiffer front springs work. I'm joining the league next year so I will have lot's of opportunity to disconnect the rear and also pick up a stock 15mm and try both out. Interesting idea removing it, I guess it makes sense for slow speed sharp corners. I'm use to that kind of thing for wheeling, never would have thought of that for performance after driving my truck down the highway with no bars.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:28 AM   #51
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I got 8kg springs on order, I am hoping they arrive before the 5th of September to try them out that sunday.

I'll stick with the bar's I have for now and see how the stiffer front springs work. I'm joining the league next year so I will have lot's of opportunity to disconnect the rear and also pick up a stock 15mm and try both out. Interesting idea removing it, I guess it makes sense for slow speed sharp corners. I'm use to that kind of thing for wheeling, never would have thought of that for performance after driving my truck down the highway with no bars.
It's common on indy car road course setups to run without rear sway bars. Most people don't really understand how a swaybar works. As the outside suspension is compressed the swaybar is lifting up on the inside suspension and removing weight from the inside tire. This causes uneven loading across the rear of the car and promotes oversteer. The bigger the bar, the more uneven the load is. On a tail happy car like the S13 "upgrading" the rear swaybar is just not necessary.
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:27 PM   #52
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First off, I hope the OP is doing well with his setup! As he probably has figured out, having a SR20 240 is a ton of fun to race, however it DOES put you in the street mod class with SCCA. Saying that, Unless you plan on running a gutted caged car with a good wheel/slick combo and built suspension, don't worry about what your working with setup wise because you more than likely wont comptete right away. Don't worry about koni's vs fortunes. Dont worry about what swaybars to use. As you gain experience, you will figure out what parts and setup you want and what your class will allow. Focus on improving times, and staying consistent. Replace parts as you go. Best of luck!
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