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LOUD NOISES A place for political mudslinging, Pro/Anti legalization, gay marriage debate, Gun control rants, etc. If it's political, controversial, or hotly debated, it goes here. No regular Off-Topic stuff allowed. READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!


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Old 01-09-2021, 11:33 PM   #1
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General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

It was decided to let the 2020 election thread die, but it's still important to discuss ongoing affairs.

Antisocial behavior is unlikely to be tolerated.
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:47 PM   #2
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The fallout from 2020 + Wednesday that no one is talking about:

March 2020 till about Sep or Oct, there was a massive hack of the federal government infrastructure. I don't care who you blame, President Trump was not really talking about this and no one seems to understand how massive this sets us back as a country.

And then Wednesday... lost in all the talk about who did what was the glaring fact that for about 3-4 hours, the entire US Capitol building was open to anyone that was able to get in. Many senators and representatives sit on committees with access to sensitive information (since they control budgeting and oversight of national defense, intelligence, etc), so if you wanted to go in and take stuff, or plant bugs, or whatever, that was the perfect cover to do whatever you wanted.

The fallout from this will be hidden from public view and damaging for years, if not decades to come...
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Old 01-10-2021, 01:11 AM   #3
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General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

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Old 01-10-2021, 03:22 AM   #4
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I'll have a go...
I had the news on the TV Wednesday afternoon to follow the joint session live. I wound up watching a riot live on television instead. I joked with a good friend doing the same thing in Atlanta "these antifa agitators are causing shit.:
As soon as WHILE it was happening, people were calling it a "protest" that went sideways because of outside agitators.
(Maury Povich): "The lie detector test determined... That was a lie":
https://www.sfgate.com/nation/articl...z-15852663.php

Don't judge me, I watch Maury at 11 and 5 every day since I have been working from home since March.
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:30 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
The fallout from 2020 + Wednesday that no one is talking about:

March 2020 till about Sep or Oct, there was a massive hack of the federal government infrastructure. I don't care who you blame, President Trump was not really talking about this and no one seems to understand how massive this sets us back as a country.

And then Wednesday... lost in all the talk about who did what was the glaring fact that for about 3-4 hours, the entire US Capitol building was open to anyone that was able to get in. Many senators and representatives sit on committees with access to sensitive information (since they control budgeting and oversight of national defense, intelligence, etc), so if you wanted to go in and take stuff, or plant bugs, or whatever, that was the perfect cover to do whatever you wanted.

The fallout from this will be hidden from public view and damaging for years, if not decades to come...

It's certainly damaging and concerning what has happened from a national security perspective. I can't get over the fact that they breached the office of the Speaker of the House. This is second in line of the presidential succession and has access to all kinds of nation secrets. It's also a bit suspicious that one person that was arrested needed a Russian translator: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...555_story.html

I think it's not talked about much in the public sphere because the government does not want to share the full extent of what they know and don't know to foreign adversaries. A cynical side of me thinks that it might not be "sensational" enough to maintain traction on national media too. This is partly due to cyberattacks happening in greater frequency and scale, that the general public might have become numb to the news or tend to easily forget and move on. The OPM hack is one example that comes to mind.
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:31 PM   #6
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Aight.

From the Joe Biden presidency here is what I want to see.

-Marijuana legalized
-civil forfeiture only when there is proof of a crime
-voting rights restored to felons (im aware this is a state issue)
-national concealed carry registry/license.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:44 PM   #7
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From the Joe Biden presidency here is what I want to see.

-Marijuana legalized
-civil forfeiture only when there is proof of a crime
-voting rights restored to felons (im aware this is a state issue)
-national concealed carry registry/license.
- more trans
- more government control
- more mask wearing
- more nancy pelosi and her nephew newsom
- more whitmer
- more lock downs
- less stimulus money
- less guns
- more money going to foreign nations
- more youtube/apple/google/twitter/amazon
- more computers that tell us how many times you've visited xhamster today
- more useless college graduates
- more electric cars
- less modified petrol cars
- more regulations for running and owning a business
- more restrictions for the adult industry
- less church
- less family
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:58 PM   #8
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Is anyone else worried about the recent censorship on social media platforms and the obvious bias towards one party on said platforms?

As I understand it (someone put it plainly) Section 230 is supposed to be both a shield & sword for big tech companies. They choose who to use the sword on (removing content or users) and use the shield to defend themselves from lawsuits. These platforms are privately owned, and can 'censor' as they see fit. I understand this. They have protection from real-world consequences due to third-party inputs on their platforms...

...except when it comes to politics? My concern is what is being done about the influence of our nation's politics, whether by a loud/vocal minority or outside (Russian/Chinese) entities?

I grew up in CA my whole life, recently got out of the military with ZERO illusions about how 'great' our Navy is, and hold no great pride for my service. Experiences vary, I suppose. I had also never used a firearm before the military and I'm hooked now, although I currently do not (though I firmly believe in ownership) own any firearms. I live and work in Japan. I'm enjoying 'taking a break' from being in the US but I am happy to be an American. I say this because I don't want to be labeled as someone I'm not.

The sad fact, however, is that people get caught up on the name 'Trump'. He is easy to disdain and even easier not to defend, but I feel like he is currently being used to set a precedence for big tech censorship. So for the record, I could give two fucks about the man. He means nothing to me...but the shitstorm on social media after he was banned seems to be a bit of a tipping point for big tech to test what they can get away with. Trump was the perfect pawn to start with because most people on social media hold no love for him and (in my opinion) let themselves be blinded by that.

What do you guys think about how social media is influencing politics, and to a larger extent, how influencers on one side of the spectrum seem to have control?
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:36 PM   #9
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No one was concerned when Facebook gutted the atheist pages and groups years back. No one was concerned when Twitter basically made it impossible to talk about LGBT issues openly for months a few years back.

No one seemed to be concerned when Facebook and Twitter refused to do anything about the clear and present danger of ethno-nationalist and christian dominionists organizing over the last 5-6 years. No one has been all that alarmed by Google turning overtly right leaning pro authority over the last few years.

Now that the conservative chickens have come home to roost and the sociopolitical climate is changing I'm supposed to be concerned that social media platforms are doing what they should have been doing and have always been well within their rights to do? Pass.
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:45 PM   #10
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I truly believe that Boomers and older GenXers just do not understand that the internet is as real and in many important ways more powerful than physical space. Seemingly no lessons have been learned from the various hacks, leaks, viruses, etc, and very little has been done outside of big business's half assed attempts to protect their own networks.

Social engineering will continue with or without big tech "censorship" until more than shareholder $$$ is on the line.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:26 PM   #11
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The issues you mentioned with the atheist and LGBT communities are concerning, but in the same vain why would it be okay for conservatives to be silenced? If Facebook wasn't an ally then but is now, why should they be trusted? Parler was made for people who felt like they needed a place for conservative dialogue and it's being shitcanned. They made their own space for their discord and now it's open season on their asses...where do these people go? You don't have to care about the individuals/thier affiliation in particular, but what it means for 'XXXX Group' trying to have a forum on 'XXX Platform'.

We can get into the weeds of 'extremists' (in all communities) or you can trust that I'm purely discussing people that can have a constructive discord. My fear is that setting the precedence now will have larger implications later...especially when entities want to influence who the next US President will be.

The only reason you should be concerned is that them finally using the 'sword' is not done in an equal manner. I get that they're private and we can't make them deal out banhammers fairly. Right now it might be swinging in your favor but what happens when it isn't?

I'm only on Facebook and Instagram now, so I don't have to deal with this shit, but it's scary how many people (a lot of young people I know) get their news from Twitter and Facebook without doing further research.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:50 PM   #12
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Actually, I think bothering Parler is a massive mistake. Those people are self incriminating in plain view. I understand why Apple and Google are doing what they're doing but I'd hope that the DOJ had time and forethought to get deep in there first.

Do you remember back when Twitter said they already had the rules/enforcement and tech to stamp out abuse and extremism BUT it kept catching Republicans and conservative Christians in the dragnet? There's a warning there people didn't want to hear. Twitter put time and money into making their platform a better safer place and political pressure halted it. Sometimes well crafted impartial bots do get it right.
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Old 01-10-2021, 11:03 PM   #13
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Actually, I think bothering Parler is a massive mistake. Those people are self incriminating in plain view. I understand why Apple and Google are doing what they're doing but I'd hope that the DOJ had time and forethought to get deep in there first.

Do you remember back when Twitter said they already had the rules/enforcement and tech to stamp out abuse and extremism BUT it kept catching Republicans and conservative Christians in the dragnet? There's a warning there people didn't want to hear. Twitter put time and money into making their platform a better safer place and political pressure halted it. Sometimes well crafted impartial bots do get it right.
I hear you. My issue is 'free speech'. If Twitter was void of all political discussions I don't think we'd be talking about this.

If the powers at be over at Twitter can decide what gets to be seen and what gets cut, aren't you worried about that? I understand you aren't right now, but what happens when/if that pendulum swings back the other way? Right now a lot of people want to stick it to the Trump supporters but if you're like me and you're leery of big government it kind of worries me. They can use this (a large group of people that are easy to dislike) to their advantage because they know we'll accept it if it's packaged the right way.

I'm looking at my tinfoil hat, but it isn't on yet.

Unfortunately, hate speech is protected under FoS. This means the GOVERNMENT cannot censor you. Twitter, however, can...but their definition of that can continuously evolve. (We're saying Twitter here, but insert any platform).

You also said it caught 'abuse' and 'extremists' but these also have definitions set by Twitter. These definitions can also change at the whim of whatever platform we're discussing.
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Old 01-10-2021, 11:47 PM   #14
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You think Twitter is specifically targeting Trump supporters for being Trump supporters or do you think Trump supporters are posting things that trip Twitters filters and boys?

Is your solution to give the government control over what's allowed on the internet rather than people? That seems worse.
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Old 01-10-2021, 11:49 PM   #15
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I hear you. My issue is 'free speech'. If Twitter was void of all political discussions I don't think we'd be talking about this.

If the powers at be over at Twitter can decide what gets to be seen and what gets cut, aren't you worried about that? I understand you aren't right now, but what happens when/if that pendulum swings back the other way? Right now a lot of people want to stick it to the Trump supporters but if you're like me and you're leery of big government it kind of worries me. They can use this (a large group of people that are easy to dislike) to their advantage because they know we'll accept it if it's packaged the right way.

I'm looking at my tinfoil hat, but it isn't on yet.

Unfortunately, hate speech is protected under FoS. This means the GOVERNMENT cannot censor you. Twitter, however, can...but their definition of that can continuously evolve. (We're saying Twitter here, but insert any platform).

You also said it caught 'abuse' and 'extremists' but these also have definitions set by Twitter. These definitions can also change at the whim of whatever platform we're discussing.
I will agree with you that after inciting the "Walk down to the Capitol" Twitter, FB, and the numerous other social media sites shutting down Trumpito had the perfect start to getting him axed off those sites.

I think as we continue to see things escalate as a whole with proof of a call to action or inciting other acts of violence that we will see the same treatment going forward.

I think the biggest example of how it could have happened to people that lean left, is when the whole "Punch a Nazi" campaign was going on and Nazi sympathizers were being assaulted all over the country. That would be the only example of "Why weren't those people inciting violence against Nazis banned?"

But then again, fuck Nazis.
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Old 01-11-2021, 01:59 AM   #16
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You think Twitter is specifically targeting Trump supporters for being Trump supporters or do you think Trump supporters are posting things that trip Twitters filters and boys?

Is your solution to give the government control over what's allowed on the internet rather than people? That seems worse.
I think dipshits are hitting buzzwords, but the list of buzzwords is set by people that work in a biased workplace on a biased platform. Does that mean everyone hitting said buzzwords is innocent? No.

I posted this because I really don't know what the solution is. When everyone thought Russia influenced social media to make Clinton lose the election people were outraged. Now people that are discussing the possibility of voter fraud are being suspended. The line between misinformation and discussing possibilities is blurred. Someone can't postulate that voter fraud may be occurring and agree that the raid on the Capitol was wrong? Where are the degrees to this?

The platforms aren't regulating fairly. The only type of 'government control' that would work is for the government to essentially ensure that free speech is upheld on privately owned platforms...but that's not gonna happen.

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I will agree with you that after inciting the "Walk down to the Capitol" Twitter, FB, and the numerous other social media sites shutting down Trumpito had the perfect start to getting him axed off those sites.

I think as we continue to see things escalate as a whole with proof of a call to action or inciting other acts of violence that we will see the same treatment going forward.

I think the biggest example of how it could have happened to people that lean left, is when the whole "Punch a Nazi" campaign was going on and Nazi sympathizers were being assaulted all over the country. That would be the only example of "Why weren't those people inciting violence against Nazis banned?"

But then again, fuck Nazis.
I'm confused. Are you saying coordinating a protest should not be allowed? Genuinely asking.

Does anyone know what tweets actually got him banned? I think I saw one, but it was the same 'the election was stolen' and 'we will not let this stand' type shit. I fail to see how that equates to 'break in and break shit'. Again, for anyone getting mad, I'm not defending these people or him. I'm discussing what the content of the tweets were and how they gave grounds to a banhammer.

...and yeah, fuck Nazis. Would we all like to punch a Nazi? Yes...but we'd still be subject to assault charges. This is where FoS always falls down: it gives freedom to assholes.
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Old 01-11-2021, 02:24 AM   #17
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Actually here it is:

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topic...uspension.html

So even in the context of what was going on, I still don't see where the glorification of violence was. They try break it down, but I still disagree. I think it's a reach and a way for Dorsey to get Twitter paid for the foreseeable future.

All I'm trying to implore anyone here to do is to try and remove your feelings from this and look at the typed words and decide if saying 'fuck you' to the people you disagree with is worth what this implies.
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Old 01-11-2021, 08:59 AM   #18
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Colin Powell formally leaves the Republican Party.
Impeachment 2.0 set to begin if Pence doesn't invoke the 25th.
Big companies cutting ties to lawmakers who tried to subvert the election.
It's not even 10am yet!
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:00 AM   #19
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This is a very interesting topic on social media platforms and one where I don't think there is a straight forward solution. The rules and policies on these platforms change over time and will evolve at a rapid clip (compared to fed/state laws) because the technology and how they are being used (or abused) changes at a similar rate.

I'm just speculating here, but these platform owners probably had the Supreme Court case of Brandenburg v. Ohio in mind which the court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action". This might have caused Twitter and other platforms into action because of the aftermath of said speech and the fact that they don't want to be liable for another similar event occurring (which had rumblings already in motion).

In the case of Russian influence in 2016 vs. widespread election fraud claims in 2020, IMO, the main difference is both were presented to the courts but the former had credible evidence brought forward by DOJ leading to indictments and the latter was hearsay leading to cases dropped/lost and some lawyer running the risk of disbarment.

The actions taken against Parler were certainly extreme, but they can go the way of Daily Stormer and host their service outside of U.S. jurisdiction.
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:30 AM   #20
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I'm glad the questions of censorship are getting some air time. If you spend a lot of time on Reddit, the only response seems to be "good riddance."

But conversations in the public sphere matter. The ability for people to converse gets creative juices flowing-provided the Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram algorithms don't just place the people in echo chambers. There should be no question about it: Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram all helped create the situations for genesis. They put like-minded people in rooms where the reading material was all war and no peace.

Now they're saying "omg this is bad" when culpability was being spoken of- and changing the direction of the narrative. Where were the heavy-handed ban hammers when it was obvious troll farms based outside the US were spreading rumor after rumor, making it impossible for simple people with a 9-to-5 to tell fact from fiction in the hour they gave themselves to cruise Facebook? Where was the civic-minded introspection when people were literally being radicalized in front of our faces?

Big companies only do what's right for the shareholders, because what's right for the shareholders is what's right for the c-suite. They're virtue-signaling because it'll be good for their bottom lines.

People need to think critically, but that doesn't happen overnight.

I also agree with mav1178- this hack needs to come back into the public eye. There was some very scary shit being revealed on 1/5 and now it's buried in the back.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:32 AM   #21
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I also agree with mav1178- this hack needs to come back into the public eye. There was some very scary shit being revealed on 1/5 and now it's buried in the back.
Yup, the direction of this thread basically proves my point.

We are so stuck on the newest news that the important details are not being scrutinized on.

I'm sure someone at the FBI or DOJ is investigating but the public goes on like nothing happened...
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:44 AM   #22
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Yup, the direction of this thread basically proves my point.

We are so stuck on the newest news that the important details are not being scrutinized on.

I'm sure someone at the FBI or DOJ is investigating but the public goes on like nothing happened...
panama papers says wut?
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:53 AM   #23
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Russia DID use Facebook and Twitter to steer the outcome of that election. There is no doubt. I hope the incoming administration and Congress lay it all out so there can be no doubt.

In 2020 there was no wide spread fraud or undue influence except that by Donald Trump. There is no equivalency here.

Again, the lessons social media learned from 2016 were put into practice. They didn't target Russia and Republicans. They targeted bots, smurf accounts, coordinated posting with no "source", and more, and Republicans and hyper conservative NGOs got caught AGAIN. They're doing their job decently well and if anything they delayed doing it until after the election to appear impartial when they should have been doing it the whole time.



BTW, we aren't talking about censorship in the town free speech zone. We're talking about curation on a privately owned physical literal bulletin board. I can and will curate my bulletin board how I see fit and I don't even have to tell you what that means. You have to get it out of your heads that social media is any different. If you don't like their policies and bias then make your own, and maybe do a better job of curtailing incitement than Parler did.
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Old 01-11-2021, 12:18 PM   #24
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Remember the various gay wedding cake incidents?

Now that but it's Twitter and Neo Nazis. It's Facebook and Qanon. It's Instagram and female nipples. It's Simon & Schuster and Josh Hawley.
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Old 01-11-2021, 12:27 PM   #25
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I don't believe that we should have control over what gets posted. I just believe that this moral grandstanding is fucking stupid and is only led by the companies' want to CYA.

Back to the hack, we're talking about the Russians having potential root access to information at FireEye, US Dept of Treasury, US NTIA, the State Dept, US NIH, DHS, DOE, National Nuclear Security Admin, some US states, Microsoft, and Cisco. Apparently, they also gained access to ~3% of the DoJ's Office 365 inboxes and may have compromised the federal courts' case management and electronic case files system.

Kompromat may be very alive and very well soon.
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Old 01-11-2021, 12:49 PM   #26
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Exciting stuff brought to you by hackers.

https://www.facebook.com/theTrojanHo...99599968569372

https://gizmodo.com/every-deleted-pa...dat-1846032466
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Old 01-11-2021, 12:57 PM   #27
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https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-p...y-researchers/
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Old 01-11-2021, 01:19 PM   #28
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Actually here it is:



https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topic...uspension.html



So even in the context of what was going on, I still don't see where the glorification of violence was. They try break it down, but I still disagree. I think it's a reach and a way for Dorsey to get Twitter paid for the foreseeable future.



All I'm trying to implore anyone here to do is to try and remove your feelings from this and look at the typed words and decide if saying 'fuck you' to the people you disagree with is worth what this implies.
To some people it does. Like you said before, when the pendulum swings back it'll change then.

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Old 01-11-2021, 02:24 PM   #29
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Someone in the state department changed Trump's biography to show his term ending today.

https://www.state.gov/people/donald-j-trump/
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Old 01-11-2021, 03:12 PM   #30
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Well, that either got taken down or got notoriety's kiss of death.
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