Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Go Back   Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum > General > Tech Talk

Tech Talk Technical Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2015, 03:51 PM   #1
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
S13 Intermittent Starting problems

Hey guys I typically don't post in this section of the forum as most things have already been discussed a million times. This problem that I am having I could not find anything.

I am running into problems with starting my car. It ONLY happens when it is warm outside (not when the engine is warm but when it is warm outside). I will turn the key, there is a solenoid that clicks inside the bay but NOT THE STARTER solenoid and the starter does not turn/engage.

Parts I have replaced within the last year:

Battery
Ignition Switch
New Starter (Not Reman)

After the car finally starts, whether its by push starting or it finally starts by key, it will start again without problems until it is parked again for an extended time in warm temperatures. Any help would be appreciated.

Last edited by sentradude; 02-11-2016 at 08:49 PM..
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-16-2015, 04:04 PM   #2
jedi03
Nissanaholic!
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: albuquerque
Posts: 1,765
Trader Rating: (8)
jedi03 is on a distinguished road
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Check and clean grounds...maybe add more...?
jedi03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 04:22 PM   #3
dukiespice
Zilvia Junkie
 
dukiespice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 371
Trader Rating: (10)
dukiespice is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
I have the same issue with my s13, except it will happen anytime of the day and more frequently then OP stated his does. grounds sound like a good place to start.
dukiespice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 10:09 PM   #4
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
I would like to report that by cleaning all grounds as well as as the clutch switch connector leads (bypass for clutch as this was auto to manual swap). The car is cranking twice as fast. Will report of the problem is fixed in a few weeks. As of now, sanding all grounds made a huge difference.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2015, 11:24 AM   #5
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Well... I wont be so quick to jump to the conclusion that the problem is solved, this morning the car cranked slower as usual. I have checked my grounds however and resistance is less than .8 OHM which is great. I will keep anyone posted as I know 240's have little gremlins sometimes and I always see a ton of threads without closure.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2015, 12:56 PM   #6
Abeo
Leaky Injector
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab
Age: 40
Posts: 54
Trader Rating: (0)
Abeo is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
My battery to ground wire was frayed in such a way that it did this only sometimes. It was frayed near the chassis clamp, and I could replicate it eventually from wriggling it. It started fine the rest of the time. Maybe your problem is similar.
Abeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:59 PM   #7
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Thank you, I have relocated my battery to the trunk with a negative cable running directly to the block, however I may want to replace the cable running from the block to the battery tray. So far, the car has been starting however it hasn't really been warm outside. Will report back.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 03:28 PM   #8
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
No go.. New starter, new ignition switch, cleaned all contacts, everything checked.. Still click click click click start, but only after ive driven it or when its hot outside. In the morning, never had a problem. Afternoons when the temp is down, no problem. Lunch time?? Forget it. What else can it be? This is auto to manual swap, so I understand there is just that one wire going directly to the starter is that correct? On manual models there is a relay, but on auto its controlled by the tranny. Since its auto to manual I had looped the wire at the fuse box in engine bay. So what else can it be? Thanks!
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 06:56 PM   #9
Kingtal0n
Post Whore!
 
Kingtal0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Florida
Age: 37
Posts: 4,582
Trader Rating: (17)
Kingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant futureKingtal0n has a brilliant future
Feedback Score: 17 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Kingtal0n
The starter itself has only 2 wires for signal 12v. I would isolate them and test each individually.

In other words, the starter isn't turning the engine, so now for diagnosis purposes you need to first verify that the starter is indeed able to turn the engine. Do so by manually sending 12V to the solenoid/starter (Use a thick piece of wire to "jump" the starter) just to verify the starter actually works the way it should. (hear "click" when turning the key, but when you go under the hood 5 seconds later and manually jump the starter it spins normally)

Once you verify the "large lug" (main 12V source) to the starter is indeed healthy/intact (because the starter always turns the engine when you manually jump the solenoid) you can ignore it and focus on the smaller wire- the one in the harness. Follow it to wherever it goes and replace whatever along the way you find damaged/aged. A temporary solution is a simple button, you could use a relay to power it (so you dont have to run live 12V through the car, just send a ground from a button to a relay)

Other info:
From experience, it sounds like the problem is battery/terminal related. Verify you have the thick ground to the intake manifold and battery tray attached. And then, suspect a weak battery. Are you running a "small" battery? or an old one? Barrow a fresh battery or a jump box and try that before de-looming your harness looking for wiring issues.
Kingtal0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 10:46 AM   #10
TwoHundredForty
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SoCal
Age: 28
Posts: 3
Trader Rating: (0)
TwoHundredForty is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
@sentradude I just went through the same issue last month. My problem was that the ignition switch went bad. Went and bought one at Oreilly's and finally had no more issues.


Things I had checked/replaced:

+battery terminals
+new starter
+Voltage to Starter/solenoid.
+fuse check
+used another battery
+verified and thoroughly cleaned all my grounds.

To no avail, still had the same "does not start when warm" issue. So even though you mentioned you just bought a new ignition switch, I would recommend returning the one you just bought and getting a newer one. This was certainly my fix. Hope you get her going again
TwoHundredForty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2016, 03:31 PM   #11
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Hey my friend , I will give it a shot!! This is driving my CRAZY ! Last night I spent 45 minutes outside of a store waiting for the car to start!!
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2016, 03:34 PM   #12
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n View Post
The starter itself has only 2 wires for signal 12v. I would isolate them and test each individually.

In other words, the starter isn't turning the engine, so now for diagnosis purposes you need to first verify that the starter is indeed able to turn the engine. Do so by manually sending 12V to the solenoid/starter (Use a thick piece of wire to "jump" the starter) just to verify the starter actually works the way it should. (hear "click" when turning the key, but when you go under the hood 5 seconds later and manually jump the starter it spins normally)

Once you verify the "large lug" (main 12V source) to the starter is indeed healthy/intact (because the starter always turns the engine when you manually jump the solenoid) you can ignore it and focus on the smaller wire- the one in the harness. Follow it to wherever it goes and replace whatever along the way you find damaged/aged. A temporary solution is a simple button, you could use a relay to power it (so you dont have to run live 12V through the car, just send a ground from a button to a relay)

Other info:
From experience, it sounds like the problem is battery/terminal related. Verify you have the thick ground to the intake manifold and battery tray attached. And then, suspect a weak battery. Are you running a "small" battery? or an old one? Barrow a fresh battery or a jump box and try that before de-looming your harness looking for wiring issues.
Hi, tried to jump it directly when it wouldnt start via key and the starter turned right over and started the car. So, I know its somewhere between the ignition switch and starter!! I have an alarm installed in the car so I am going back to the basics. Removed the dash in about 15 minutes yesterday after getting home from being stuck for 45 mins and will check each and every connection between the starter and ignition.

Once question, the starter gets its voltage through the black/white wire, is the black/white getting voltage from the white wire? Also, whats the secondary starter wire for black/yellow? THX!

Last edited by sentradude; 02-05-2016 at 10:30 AM..
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:32 AM   #13
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Does anyone know what the Black/Yellow wire at the ignition is? On other websites it refers to it as Starter 2. What is its function?
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 08:48 PM   #14
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Anyways I was lazy to look that up - BUT... still having problems. Short of running a new wire from battery and back to the starter.. could the tumbler itself cause this problem??? New ignition switch, new starter, new battery, new battery cables.. I don't see what else it can be!!
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 03:27 PM   #15
ultimateirving
Zilvia FREAK!
 
ultimateirving's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: arizona
Age: 33
Posts: 1,517
Trader Rating: (1)
ultimateirving is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentradude View Post
Anyways I was lazy to look that up - BUT... still having problems. Short of running a new wire from battery and back to the starter.. could the tumbler itself cause this problem??? New ignition switch, new starter, new battery, new battery cables.. I don't see what else it can be!!
Sentra dude. I have a 90 hatch with an Sr. Swap and I have a similar problem. I also have replaced everything that I could and the problem persisted.

I solved it by bypassing the factory wiring. I couldn't get it fixed and so I hooked upa relay to the start solenoid, and wired a switch in the dash to energize the starter whilst I crank the ignition switch. The vehicle now starts everytime
__________________
Sr20det - z33 trans-e85
Desert Street Scene || Dssevents.com
ultimateirving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 03:52 PM   #16
cbeuglas
Zilvia Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 265
Trader Rating: (2)
cbeuglas is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
When it is in the no start situation you need to check if you are getting power to the selionoid (single wire the small skinny one. Using a test light is the best way. Unplug it from the starter and see if it getting power. If it is not the check to see if you get power on the jumped relay in the relay box. If no power check and see that you have it on the back of the ignition switch.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
cbeuglas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 03:53 PM   #17
cbeuglas
Zilvia Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 265
Trader Rating: (2)
cbeuglas is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
You can also check with your test light that you are getting constant power to the tester. You most likely are.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
cbeuglas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 03:55 PM   #18
cbeuglas
Zilvia Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 265
Trader Rating: (2)
cbeuglas is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
I would guess it's something between the ignition switch and wire to the selionoid. If you have power at the starter and power at the selionoid then the replacement starter is bad.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
cbeuglas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 05:08 PM   #19
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
I've checked it all, even though there is 12v to the starter it wont start sometimes... Two Mishimoto starters, new ignition switch.. I just ordered a new complete ignition - i read somewhere that tumbler can wear out causing such problems, so even though the switch is new the key may not be turning it far enough once things are loose and worn from 20+ years of abuse. There are a tens of these intermittent starting threads all over the web. I refuse to put a push button in there! I WILL get to the bottom of this and post fix.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 05:13 PM   #20
ultimateirving
Zilvia FREAK!
 
ultimateirving's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: arizona
Age: 33
Posts: 1,517
Trader Rating: (1)
ultimateirving is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentradude View Post
I've checked it all, even though there is 12v to the starter it wont start sometimes... Two Mishimoto starters, new ignition switch.. I just ordered a new complete ignition - i read somewhere that tumbler can wear out causing such problems, so even though the switch is new the key may not be turning it far enough once things are loose and worn from 20+ years of abuse. There are a tens of these intermittent starting threads all over the web. I refuse to put a push button in there! I WILL get to the bottom of this and post fix.
Please figure it it and save us all. I got tired of chasing and just bypassed it. But I prefer a proper solution
__________________
Sr20det - z33 trans-e85
Desert Street Scene || Dssevents.com
ultimateirving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 08:46 PM   #21
ZenkiZenki14
Zilvia Member
 
ZenkiZenki14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: TX
Age: 25
Posts: 152
Trader Rating: (0)
ZenkiZenki14 is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Wow, I am having the same exact issues. Brand new battery, new starter, i even bypassed the clutch interlock switch to rule that out as an issue. relays and fuses checked out. Grounds are perfect. I replaced negative battery leads. I get 12v to the starter signal wire when in crank position. Was able to jump it so I know its fine. And all grounds and wires involving ignition in the ECU checked out. Ignition Switch seemed fine via Test light. So, I'm curious to see if your solution works. Please keep us updated. This shit is killing me. Only time I'm ever able to drive the damn thing is jumping is EVERY DAMN TIME.
ZenkiZenki14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2016, 08:50 PM   #22
ZenkiZenki14
Zilvia Member
 
ZenkiZenki14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: TX
Age: 25
Posts: 152
Trader Rating: (0)
ZenkiZenki14 is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentradude View Post
I've checked it all, even though there is 12v to the starter it wont start sometimes... Two Mishimoto starters, new ignition switch.. I just ordered a new complete ignition - i read somewhere that tumbler can wear out causing such problems, so even though the switch is new the key may not be turning it far enough once things are loose and worn from 20+ years of abuse. There are a tens of these intermittent starting threads all over the web. I refuse to put a push button in there! I WILL get to the bottom of this and post fix.
Well now that i think about it, before you ordered the tumbler an easy test for that would be just to turn the little "T" slot in the switch disconnected from the tumbler assembly to see if it starts, thus making sure the tumbler was the issue if it does start right up. If not then the Tumbler isn't the issue.
ZenkiZenki14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2016, 11:48 AM   #23
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
Installed new OEM ignition yesterday - will see over the next few weeks. Will report back either way.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 01:58 PM   #24
beeboyee
Zilvia Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: desert
Posts: 287
Trader Rating: (14)
beeboyee is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
i was in the same situation changed new starter, new ignition, added extra grounds

and it was the blue relay near the battery tray / passenger fender
it a 2 plug relay i jumped the 2 wires (black white / black yellow )
and started finally

so try checking that....
beeboyee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 02:49 PM   #25
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
hi beeboyee, yes on Manual cars you would also need to check the blue starter relay, however on Automatic or Auto to Manual that relay does not exist.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2016, 08:38 PM   #26
kruked
Nissanaholic!
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: someone's sisters' pants
Posts: 2,287
Trader Rating: (37)
kruked is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 37 reviews
I'm in the same boat. I gave up on it a year ago. Hours upon hours of diagnosing this and that...the hell w/ it, I haven't been left stranded yet.
__________________
I like my bikes how I like my b¡tches...naked!
2014 Triumph Street Triple
kruked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 03:25 PM   #27
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
OK! Back to square 1... I guess the next step is replacing the actual wire... I will replace in sections starting from the Starter. I WILL get to the bottom of this!!! (ps. it has left me stranded!)
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2016, 05:22 PM   #28
gostrider
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CFL
Age: 8
Posts: 638
Trader Rating: (7)
gostrider is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
yep same issue. i never check the blue relay by the battery tray will have to check that. GL op hope you can help all of us with this issue..
__________________
240 with illegal engine mod.
gostrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2016, 01:12 AM   #29
madd
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: panama city, fl
Age: 32
Posts: 9
Trader Rating: (0)
madd is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I had a similar issue with mine. Turn the key and "click" was all it would do. Ended up being ignition. All I had to do was not turn the key as far and it would turn over. May not be your problem but it's something easy and free to try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
madd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2016, 03:36 PM   #30
sentradude
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Age: 38
Posts: 739
Trader Rating: (14)
sentradude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 14 reviews
So far I think the problem has been fixed!! I will wait another month before posting all the things one should check and the order they should check them in.
sentradude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vB.Sponsors
Copyright © 1998 - 2019, Zilvia.net™