percentage of people who prefer ka24de(t) to the sr20det

[silsx13]

Originally Posted by theboy

You obviously have never driven or purchased an sr if this is how you feel. Stock ka vs stock sr, sr is the better choice. Stock ka with t25 or t28 vs stock sr, sr still is better. Built ka vs mildly built sr, sr still is the better decision. The amount you spend a ka-t could be spent on an sr swap. With a much better return on investment. Stock sr's can handle a hell of a lot more than a ka. Plus its lighter, plus the aftermarket is bigger, plus its a shit ton more reliable.


After having a stock ka24e, then a ka24de, then ka24det, then built ka24det. My mildly built sr (head work, valves, lifters, cams, 2871r) was the best decision i have ever made. I saved $1000's going the sr route.

Oh and yes i autoX and drift the car. I also run high speed time attack and door to door. And with an sr i lost enough points to drop me into a class the car is competitive in, and not a bunch of fully built lotus elise's.

Yes I have driven a 240sx with an SR swap (buddy's car, redtop w/upgraded S14 T28) and drove it in Autox, Drift and on track AND, I can say I liked it BUT not as much as how the power delivery is with the KA.

Guess you can say that I'm like any American: I like torque over high revving stuff haha.

SR is a good engine but I just prefer the KA more.

[DenkiMan!]

ive actually been thinking about the benefits of each route. i know that turbocharging any motor will pretty much cut its life in half, unless its a damn clean build, nothing was really cheaped out and you or the shop thats building it really knows what going on...and thats obviously pricier than just buying a turbo'd motor. personally i wouldnt trust dding a ka-t for the long run just because of things that could go wrong with turboing a motor that wasnt initially built for it.

things that go wrong with ka-t's are like what others have said, people who dont know what they're doing, cheaping out on parts and hitting boost everywhere you go lol. as for sr longblocks being expensive, 1500 for an sr longblock is outrageous, im seeing deals way cheaper than that in the fs section.

you wait for the right deal, getting a good sr isnt that much of a hassle.

ive driven (not hard) and been in sr powered cars and yea the smoothness is definitely a separating factor from ka-t's, but that obviously comes from the fact that they were built for it. ive been in a fairly built ka-t drift car and damn it was fast and looked really responsive, but for the long run, i'd prefer to go the sr route

[LBK S13]

Ka aftermarket parts don't have the selection that srs do but I love my ka and had ran it on stock internals up to ten lbs for years and pulled on srs all day I upgraded my bottom end just for added reliability and wouldn't change it. But I would like better big name companies to produce more parts. I have a good friend who's been running the exact same kat setup for 7 years daily driven and no major problems. Plus if you buy a ka from a vehicle that was wrecked with low mileage for say 250$ as I did and spend another 1200 on turbo parts for the same money you will have a better more reliable engine then having to do a swap and all the stuff that comes with it. KA24DET is tha shit!

[onewicked750]

This is a hard one for me, I've never had an S-Chassis that had a KA24 in it. However, I'm helping my friend put one together at the moment and I am impressed by the stoutness of the motor in stock-ish form let alone when he turbo's it. It is a bigger engine and with the right head and bottom end prep it would undoubtedly be better than an SR. On the other hand that is a TON of work to get the KA up to par with a performance oriented engine like the SR which as people have said has tried and true aftermarket support and can reliably put down 3~400 HP relatively cheaply. Also I personally think that SR feels better, and by that I mean it has smoother power delivery and doesn't sound like its gonna explode at high RPM. At the end of the day though it's really a personal choice, and I'll have to agree with Biggamehit on this one. If I didn't already have a few SR's from my time in Japan, I wouldn't bother with one here in the US... That said I DO have some SR's already so why not put them to use lol. Oh and @ Biggamehit, has Mickslippy thrashed my old 180 or is it still kickin out at MSP lol.

And for the OP as far as I know, the KA has a ton of support here already but you do have to do your homework like with anything else unless you drop a lot of money and just get bolt in kits for things.

[illvialuver]

Nice to see this is still continuing. As I suspected, wanted to say thanks for all the responses and feedback.

[zeitgeist]

I wasnt impressed when i drove an sr. This was after a driving a ka24e

The car just feels like its missing its balls without the torque

[illvialuver]

um Tomei sent a usdm ka powered s14 to Japan for the engineers to work on, saw it on their face book. Super exciting

[badbob2121]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

I wasnt impressed when i drove an sr. This was after a driving a ka24e

The car just feels like its missing its balls without the torque

Totally bro, the KA24e is much more stout than any SR20...

Just look at the comparison on this chart..

[illvialuver]

Did anyone notice that Tomei sent their usdm KA24de powered s14 to Japan. I just wonder what they could be up to.

[Slims]

Tomei already put an official statement out saying that they were doing RnD on the KA24de for better aftermarket parts. they're a little late to the game, but im sure with the money they make, they can bring something new to the engine.

[illvialuver]

Dont think they are too late. I think it is good that they are not giving up on our cars, also most of their stuff is great quality, more options cant hurt when building a ka.

[RBX28DETT]

SR all the way for me..take care of it and it will keep the excitement coming.. mine goin on 4 years plenty of drift events under its belt and daily drive.. ASB2012 here to come (another one for the record)

[Slims]

I agree about having more options open. The KA has had a great amount of aftermaket support for years though. If Tomei wants to brake into the scene, they're going to have to put out more then some H and I beam rods. Something that's not common for the KA or small problems that other companies don't seem to adress. like functional adjustable cam sprockets, Not the Jim Wolf drilled "upgrades" I'm sure they will though, they never seem to disappoint. I'm just stating the facts.

[BossHogg]

Originally Posted by xh3nry

Well technically, ka-t is illegal too because it won't be able to pass smog. It would be cool to have the kat parts more readily available and at a more affordable price though. I think people would really enjoy building their own engine themself rather than swapping a motor. Its just the experience is pretty cool, you know. What i'm trying to say is that people would be less intimidated to go with the kat route.

not all places have smog. Especially if your car is OBD 1 or older. So that shit doesn't matter at all. s14 guys might have a problem depending on your area of living.

[mmmS13]

Ka-T for me. I've ridden in 2 SR'd cars and driven 1. They are really smooth throughout the powerband, but I love the tq of my KA. Parts aren't too expensive and there are so many people that have gone SR that KA blocks go pretty cheap. Also, my KA has 230k miles on it and im making around 300whp. Its not really that fast but it is reliable power, hell I drove it 3k miles on a road trip.

[MadScientist]

I have built several engines, and as for 4 baggers go, the 4G63 is a beast! The only engine that comes close to it is the SR2?DET!

SR2?DET v:s KA2?DET
Yeah the KA has that butt dyno feel, but its not reliable, not built to hold boost, Long Stroke, Distributor, Truck Transmission, etc...and it will cost alot to fix these issues. Its also ugly, design and engineering wise! The SR is so much easier to play with and responds well to small bolt ons. Its easier to build a SR close to 400hp than a KA!!

Yes you will need to drop 2-3k on a SR to start, where you will also need to drop 2-3k on building a KAs internals. Its a toss up, and personal preference. Most people will start with KA(s), and quickly learn SRs are easier. Yes the SR is harder (more expensive) to get than KA, but its alot less likely to blow up. Yes you can blow up any engine and buying used engines from Japan is just as much a coin toss as buying an engine from any junk yard.

If your going to push limits, build it past those limits.
My SR is build and capable of supporting 1000hp, however the the supporting parts are set to the HP goal I want.
Start with Mantinance mods before getting into power mods always!!
Its sad how many people blow engines and didn't do a single supporting or mantinance mod.

[Pandadub92]

I personally was stuck between both set ups, in my opinion i love the idea of building either engine and if im honest i think the SR looks a lot cooler than a KA lol, but then again that wouldn't exactly be a deciding factor. I just look at what I've seen and felt. I think if you're going for raw power and looking for the underdog feel of surpassing an SR then go on and build your KA-T but if youre looking into being more of a performance based engine as far as time attack or a serious built race car then i dont see why you wouldnt go SR. but then again i see alot of people having an SR just to have an SR and same with the KA-T

[AJZax]

I can't vote. I like both of them a lot. lol

I just built 500whp SR, but part of me wishes I did the KA-T
But the SR naturally has a better flowing head, so build for displacement of KA and BAM best of both worlds. But costs 6 arms and 3 legs,.. I only have 2 of each.

If I didn't already have an SR wired in and stuff in my car when it blew up, I probably would've done KA-T, I almost switched wiring back to KA anyway!

If I were to start over.... I'd probably do a KA-T. The few pounds extra the KA weighs I think are worth it.

Just balance and forge rotating assembly, build the valve train a little (NO ROCKER ARM FAILURES WHAT?!?!?! MAGIC... freaking SR..... -_- ) KA-T aftermarket support is even getting better! If you're going to BUILD I'd say KA-T... if your'e going to do a mild 300whp... SR is hard to beat for reliability and cost effectiveness, 300whp is almost stock with a tune haha.

[illvialuver]

I dont think the sr head flows better. I want to see some kind of test proving this. Just saying. plus ka has a better valve train. I think its almost like oranges to tangerins, not apples to oranges. The biggest issue is probably the legality if it is your street car, with the ka you just throw your stock stuff back on, with the sr, you have to store a ka in your yard/ garage/ bedroom wherever just incase you get popped.

[240boi115]

Originally Posted by illvialuver

I dont think the sr head flows better. I want to see some kind of test proving this. Just saying. plus ka has a better valve train. I think its almost like oranges to tangerins, not apples to oranges. The biggest issue is probably the legality if it is your street car, with the ka you just throw your stock stuff back on, with the sr, you have to store a ka in your yard/ garage/ bedroom wherever just incase you get popped.

i dont think thats completely true due to the fact that sr20de's were made and with that being na and having as much power as a ka they both are pretty equal.. the only REAL legality issue is the fact that the sr20 is a "swap" and the ka is already in the bay of your car.... as for better flow.. yeah i need proof. i have a ka now and id like to take the ka-t route. its different and being a previous sr20 owner id like to see the difference in feel and power/ torque.

[Kingtal0n]

Has anybody seen a KA-T with 400 horsepower go 100k+ Miles?
Just wondering if it's ever happened. Built or not. Or even 50k+ miles for that matter.

most of the build KA-T engines you see are freshly rebuilt, people selling them with 6k or 13k and such.

IF I was going to turbo the KA, I would turbo a STOCK bottom end KA, with a small oil-less rear-mount at about 7PSI using some 370-440CC injectors and a SAFC. No intercooler. Simple, low boost, elegant.

[240boi115]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Has anybody seen a KA-T with 400 horsepower go 100k+ Miles?
Just wondering if it's ever happened. Built or not. Or even 50k+ miles for that matter.

most of the build KA-T engines you see are freshly rebuilt, people selling them with 6k or 13k and such.

IF I was going to turbo the KA, I would turbo a STOCK bottom end KA, with a small oil-less rear-mount at about 7PSI using some 370-440CC injectors and a SAFC. No intercooler. Simple, low boost, elegant.

a rear mount on a 240sx? that just doesnt even sound elegant to me...

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by 240boi115

a rear mount on a 240sx? that just doesnt even sound elegant to me...

You pop the hood and see... nothing. "hey bro wheres your air filter?"

Clean install city. Spools faster than a t-25 on an SR20. No intercooler to display. SAFC in the glove box. Paint the injectors red.

Pretty damn elegant if you ask me.
use an automatic trans for best results (Surprise Mother Fu#&@rs!!)

[240boi115]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

You pop the hood and see... nothing. "hey bro wheres your air filter?"

Clean install city. Spools faster than a t-25 on an SR20. No intercooler to display. SAFC in the glove box. Paint the injectors red.

Pretty damn elegant if you ask me.
use an automatic trans for best results (Surprise Mother Fu#&@rs!!)

sneaky, sly, and ninja as fuck yes... elegant eh. I picture elegant as being clean and perfectly engineered. and being seen. but i get what your going at.

Id be happy with a 300hp ka-t which doesnt seem too hard to achieve if done right.

[Kingtal0n]

"clean and perfectly engineered"- well, nothing is perfect. But the "clean" and "engineered" portion is up to the installer, fabricator, aka car owner. If it comes out poorly designed and implemented there is no one to blame except the owner.

Urban definition:
elegant "Engineer slang for a very clean or innovative way of solving a problem."

Problem: How to add 80 reliable horses to a stock KA engine while simultaneously removing more parts from the engine bay than you are adding.

[240boi115]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

"clean and perfectly engineered"- well, nothing is perfect. But the "clean" and "engineered" portion is up to the installer, fabricator, aka car owner. If it comes out poorly designed and implemented there is no one to blame except the owner.

Urban definition:
elegant "Engineer slang for a very clean or innovative way of solving a problem."

Problem: How to add 80 reliable horses to a stock KA engine while simultaneously removing more parts from the engine bay than you are adding.

like i said i can see where you're coming from. i agree with you that its a good solution especially for people in cali. im just old fashioned i guess lol i like seeing the components in the engine bay where they should be xD
that being said though would you say the exhaust sound would be louder or more calm with the turbo being at the exhaust?

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by 240boi115

like i said i can see where you're coming from. i agree with you that its a good solution especially for people in cali. im just old fashioned i guess lol i like seeing the components in the engine bay where they should be xD
that being said though would you say the exhaust sound would be louder or more calm with the turbo being at the exhaust?

use the OEM muffler and it should be as quiet as stock. No need to go larger, oem exhaust can handle 300~ horsepower.

that said, if you wanted to be "seen" then just remove the muffler. I assume you thought the turbo would terminate at the tail- it does not have to. You can install the turbocharger anywhere in the plumbing that you can find room. I would actually prefer it to stay away from the oem plastic fuel tank, but that doesnt matter because you can always fabricate a nice shield. lots of options.

I feel that it would still be fairly quiet without a muffler as turbochargers have a slight muffler effect. but there is only one way to find out. It depends largely on whether you keep the oem exhaust plumbing that leads up to the turbocharger as well. My idea of a simple, reversible, clean install would probably use the oem muffler's flange, such that I could hang the turbocharger on the oem exhaust hangers that used to hang the muffler. I could easily remove the turbocharger by unbolting it from the OE (muffler's) location, and re-install the OEM muffler if I wanted to. I've never done an rear mount before so I am not sure it would work or is even feasible however.

[Kingtal0n]

the turbo I would use
CT2-4447
Comp Turbo - CT2 4447 Billet
Its about $1800. The complete install would then likely cost $3000~ so you might as well do an SR swap if possible in your area.
For $4500~ you can install an S15 sr with a six speed including a fresh 3.4x differential with low mileage subframe arms/bushings etc... That would be my favored idea.
Use the OEM exhaust and an OEM sidemount- same effect, car looks stock ("ninja"). And theres your 280rwhp daily reliable for 150,000 miles.


Thus why I said, "if" I was going to turbo a KA.

[illvialuver]

Originally Posted by 240boi115

i dont think thats completely true due to the fact that sr20de's were made and with that being na and having as much power as a ka they both are pretty equal...

Key word is think.
Do you think for one second that an sr20de ever came in any us 240sx?

NO. not ever, never legal in CA.

Plus look at the stock horse power and torque numbers of the ka24de and sr20de, furthermore if you were to chop the flanges on the exhuast runners of each the ka and the sr, and bolted the stock srturbo and injectors and side mount, the result would be the same.

ka= more power and more torque as long as the conditions are the same. same turbo same injectors, same engine management the ka wins na or turbo.

the only time when you have any real argument with the sr is when you consider the expensive ve head swap.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by illvialuver

Key word is think.
Do you think for one second that an sr20de ever came in any us 240sx?

The SR20DE comes in many USA cars, such as nissan sentra. Its been produced since the 1989~ (you can google the exact dates) and is a very reliable daily driver engine for USA cars. That means it is OBD2 at some point and could realistically be installed into a 240sx and be EPA/DOT legal (unlike the sr20det), iirc thats all it needs. Just like an R33 skyline could be legally imported and EPA legal with the 350Z engine installed and working OBD2.

The KA engine has a displacement advantage, but that is it. Everything else about it is non-performance oriented and tends to stay that way regardless of what you do it. Any engine can be forced to breath airflow via turbocharger but it is clear that the SR20 was designed to do that and the KA was not from the longevity perspective.