How to set up a s13 coupe for grip??

[1sikgti]

I would prefer to set up my s13 coupe for grip(maybe a few d-days with shitty tires).I am under the impression that adding 1 to many chassis bracing bars,the car would initiate drift on its own to easily,due to less chasiss flex?? Whats everyone's opion here on how to set the car up properly for grip?

[kandyflip445]

The stiffer the chassis the better the suspension can do it's job. When I posted a question like this awhile back people told me to look at the Do-luck X-bar. Also, to look at a rear ladder bar along with the strut tower bars. Since you have a coupe though. I would look at getting a Cusco cage. http://www.i-m-racing.com/curoca6s1248.html

[sykikchimp]

chassis bracing is good. The only time chassis bracing is bad, is when you are adding bars that do nothing to increase rigidity, and they only add weight.

Really, grip and drift setup's are a LOT a like. Most drift cars, also grip very well. Just a little different alignment, and maybe play with damper settings a little.

[kandyflip445]

What about the anit-roll bars? Wouldn't it be set up a little differently on a drift car? Assuming you have adjustable ones.

[1sikgti]

hmmm,some very good replies.Thanks! I just see sooo many chassis braces,an finding new ones daily that it started to get the hamsters in my head moving.

[fliprayzin240sx]

ANother difference is the spring rates....higher spring rates are better for drift while lower spring rates are better for grip.

[Wei240]

if you want grip, get sticky tires

[1sikgti]

I am planning on azenis or similiar as well as tein he's.

[furanzhu]

Those really good combination man. I have those in my car (S13 Hatchback) and it perform well.
Adjusting the front chamber really make a different in setting the car for drift or grip.

[1sikgti]

Camber is another thing I am lost on,I like the super bozozuko look,but obviously not for performance,so not for me! My previous Gti had only about 1.1 of camber(Most you could get)an I noticed a diffrence instantly,coming from a stock camber adjustment.Whats ideal camber for hard cornering an the like? This is turning into a great thread,keep the info coming for me an other as well!

[OptionZero]

i'm told the s13 has some inherent understeer, so getting huge tires in back aren't a good idea...stick to same size tires on all 4 corners

[Flybert]

What it comes down to is the type of driving you are doing. Are you going to an autocross, high speed racetrack, bumpy or smoothe touge? There are too many variables to tell you a good setup but in general there are a few common things. As Sykikchimp said, bracing the chassis is good so long as you aren't adding so much that the bars are useless and adding weight. The more solid the chassis, the better the suspension can do its work. Just make sure that you do everything in a balanced fashion because you don't want the front to be way stiffer than rear or vice versa. Roll cages, rear cross bars, ladder bars, and seam welding are the most popular choices for chassis stiffening.

Dampening settings vary depending on the surface that you are driving. This can be figured out on your own. Just keep messing with things and find something you like. The same can be said for sway bars. Everyone has their own preference on what they like. Some people like zero sway while others prefer a little sway for more control.

Another big step in setting up a race car is to get rid of suspension slop. There are numerous suspension arms that have rubber bushings that can be replaced with more adjustable units with solid spherical bearings. This helps tremendously to allow your dampeners to do the work they are supposed to do. And since they are more adjustable than stock arms, you can align your car to whatever settings you want. Go to www.splparts.com to check out the arms I'm talking about. They make high quality stuff and the price is good.

What it mainly comes down to is the alignment and tire choice. For tires, go with the grippiest tire you can afford. Since you know nothing about alignment settings, take your car to a well respected race alignment shop and tell them what you will be doing with the car. They will help you much more than anyone on here can. If you are setting up your car now, start establishing some goals on what you are going to do with your car and go for it. Read up and search for those specific things. It would be nice to buy a book on suspension tuning as well.

[1sikgti]

Wow,great reply! Thank you,hope to see more info as this come along.I plan on the azeni's for a tire,although the size doesnt sound apealing,its performance does an has proven itself to me many times.All these bars are amazing,an yes I am starting to set up the car now.I order'd my tein he's,tires next week an I have recaro seats in my room.The car will be 98% touge,2%d-day,I dont ever forsee an autocross event,just never apealed to me much.All this is great info,an I am processing it all 110%! I looked into the cusco cage,but the autopower seems more apealing for some reason? I am just happy,I will not run out of possibilities with this car,but I do know I have one goal an thats to have total car control.

[orion::S14]

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

ANother difference is the spring rates....higher spring rates are better for drift while lower spring rates are better for grip.

Higher spring rates are better for both...

It's the matching of rates that's important.

For "grip" you may want a 8k/6k setup, and for "drift" you may want another 1k in the rear, to make it slide out a little easier.

But either way, stiffer = better, for both types of driving. But you can play with the rates to get it neutral or oversteer-happy...

Stiffer front = Understeer, stiffer rear = oversteer...same with anti-roll bars.

- Brian

[thx247]

Some brakes wouldn't hurt with all this grip driving going on

[AutoRnD]

stiffer springs = better if you are running sticky tires. if you are running crappy h rated tires on a suspension soooo stiff.. the car wont be going anywhere cause all that translates is to no stick. =)

if that sort of made any sense...

if you want to grip learn to drive from hpde events as well as any open track days. or auto-x.. from there you can see where the car is losing out.. and tune accordingly... i just love it how some ppl will say they grip and go out and buy a slew of parts and to which he has never even driven hard before... driver= the most important mod. you can make a grip car drift and vice versa.

[Wei240]

if you don't like azenis' limited selection, ppl sometimes go with kumho mx's, just a thought...

[NI_YON_Zenki]

NO, if you want a good tire for long driving periods that hold their quality throughout, go with the dunlop S9000 series tire (380 tred ware rating) or the Brigestone brand performance tire, potenza, as far as suspension tunig for grip, depending on how much you will be driving a course, I suggest you run a 9-6. This will provide a comfortable ride as well as strong bound/rebound performance for the silvia chasis.

[sykikchimp]

Azenis hands down are the best bang for the buck tire period. I would put MX 2nd, and possibly a little better beginner tire as they talk just a touch more, and are not as easy to over heat.

I've experimented with quite a few alignment setups, and this worked extremely well for me at RA a couple weeks ago:
Camber FR:-2.6* R: -1.7*
Caster: 7.5*
Toe: 0 all around

I'm running, s14 se wheels with 205/55-16 azenis all around, and JIC FLT-A2's with the fronts a little stiffer than the rears to compensate for the higher spring rates, and to keep turn-in crisp.

This setup was very neutral with a hint of understeer at corner entry. Very good setup for a novice to intermediate driver. Reduce front camber about .3-.5 degree's and you have a car that is much safer for a novice.

It sounds as though this is pretty much a toy car with mild daily driver duties. If so, skip all the silly chassis braces, and put in a good custom roll bar. Should run you about $500-600 for a custom one which will be much better, and provide more chassis rigidity, or you can get a bolt-in for about $400 from autopower. A set of 5-point harnesses is also in order. These 2 items along with those good seats will help more than any chassis brace b/c they will allow you to really focus on your driving.

Sway bars - get whiteline. period. No other sway bar is adjustable, so there is no reason to get any other bars.

Other bars.. Front Strut tower bar is important as it keeps the front suspension in line. A nismo power bar, or similar is also a good buy, as they help tighten up turn in.

Suspension - the pillow ball suspension arms are very nice, but afford more adjustment than even a higher level intermediate driver needs. a set of front pillow ball t/c rods, and some rear upper camber arms is all you need. Everything else is useless unless you have a degree in Mechanical engineering, and experience as a race car alignment tech. A Set of suframe spacers is a good thing too. They help tighten up the rear end trememndously.

Ride height - DON'T OVER LOWER YOUR CAR. When you do this, you run out of suspension travel, and cause the multi-link suspension arms to rest at very steep angles. This causes all sorts of screwy things to happen in the suspension. #1 is cronic corner entry understeer, and snap corner exit oversteer. More than an 1.5-2" is too much. Try to stay around there. (if you ever get those adjustable arms, you can work SOME of this out, and lower the car a little more, but you are still dealing with less than ideal suspension geometry. The subframe spacers help with this a little as well.

Brakes - stock brakes are pretty small, and can over heat quickly with an inexperienced driver behind the wheel. Make sure you at least put some good brake pads on the car like Carbotech Panther+, or something close. Since the car see's so little DD time, get the carbotech's, and some SS brake lines, and some good fluid. ATE Super blue, or Motul 5.1, etc. The stock brakes are adequate for a novice with street tires. as long as you have good pads.

HPDE's are where it's at. Safe, controlled environment, instructor in car to tell you when your screwing up, and to keep you out of trouble, and classroom time to really work on theory. You typically get around 3 hrs of serious WOT seat time at an HPDE. There is NOTHING you can do on the street that will compare to driving at speed on track. And honestly, if you only have so much money, this is the FIRST thing you should buy before anything else. NOTHING else you can buy will make you faster than seat time with a good instructor. If that roll cage and sway bars got you 5 seconds, then seat time will likely have gotten you 10 seconds. Also, time on track will help guide your purchases as you find parts of the car that are holding you back.

Charles

[1sikgti]

Thank for you all these great replies,its just what I was looking for.I should point out somthing I forgot to though! I am askin all these questions because I am pretty well rounded when it comes to fwd cars an canyons,an I know of all the theories of lowering to much an all of that,coming from my Gti.I have owned 2 other s13's before this,but never set one up solely for tossin around in the canyons.All this is great info,I was consdiing the bridgestone so3 pole position,but compared to azenis price its a given I want azeni's.I'd expect that to the addition of some bracing,upgraded busings,tranny mount an motor mounts would benefit greatly.I am also plannin on upgraded brakes,the one in the group buys right now is really tempting!I also picked up some hayashi mesh wheels(Perrier's)which are forged,should help with weight,although the heavy azenis may throw that out the window.What are peoples opion on relocating the battery to the trunk to gain alittle more traction in rear?

[MakotoS13]

what the hell is this "how to modify a car 101"?

[1sikgti]

No its not,but I would hope this thread not only benefits me but others as well.I have seen alot of information,but all scatter'd an not in 1 easy to read thread.All this info is greatly helpin me realized,understand get an idea of what I need to do to achieve the set up I would like,an I hope its doin the same for others who may not be replyin but just reading it.