The Sr20/Sr22vet thread

[tb13]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Straight from Nismotronics sites



In essence, nismotronic will support VVL with minor changes. Nismotronic can trigger external outputs.

Well shit, I was looking on their product page and this isn't listed. Really appreciate the info.

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

You could use a separate RPM switch for that. http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...FVBZhgodTMUO6g

Also, I ran into another issue with the P12. The DET fuel rail doesn't line up like it does on a P11. Looks like I'm going to have to cut off the current tabs and weld on new ones. Injector spacing is the same, the mounting tabs just don't line up.

I'd really rather not run something external, which was why I asked about the S14/S15 ECU's. But since it does support extra outputs, it will work perfectly.

[Yellow4g63]

I'm pretty sure u can hook it up to the break out board that it comes with to kick the vvl.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Also, I ran into another issue with the P12. The DET fuel rail doesn't line up like it does on a P11. Looks like I'm going to have to cut off the current tabs and weld on new ones. Injector spacing is the same, the mounting tabs just don't line up.

Just to be clear, the mounting tabs that secure the rail to the manifold do no line up? If so, that's minimal work.

[LuckyX2]

Yep, the mounting tabs need to be cut off and either rewelded back on shifted around(looks like I'll need spacers for that) or I make some new brackets out of sheet aluminum.

Sure, it's only a trip to Lowes and a night's worth of work but it's another difference I found and I thought I'd mention it for the sake of having more P12 info for people.

[candyred_240sx]

So my Kelford 292/303 cams were damaged (don't ask) and now new ones are on back order until November.

Just wondering if you guys have any suggestions on cams I should run in the mean time that won't leave me too disappointed compared to the Kelfords?

The setup is a stroker sr20 (87mm 8:5:1 pistons x 91mm stroker crank) with a fully Mazworx built P11 head (shimlesss) running a GTX3076 .78 twin scroll turbo, E85, high boost

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by candyred_240sx

So my Kelford 292/303 cams were damaged (don't ask) and now new ones are on back order until November.

Just wondering if you guys have any suggestions on cams I should run in the mean time that won't leave me too disappointed compared to the Kelfords?

The setup is a stroker sr20 (87mm 8:5:1 pistons x 91mm stroker crank) with a fully Mazworx built P11 head (shimlesss) running a GTX3076 .78 twin scroll turbo, E85, high boost

Kelford isn't on backorder till November, they're on backorder indefinitely lol

-A pissed Mazworx sales rep

[candyred_240sx]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

Kelford isn't on backorder till November, they're on backorder indefinitely lol

-A pissed Mazworx sales rep

I talked with Kelford last night and they said November but did not sound to confident about that lol.

Any suggestions for what I should run in the mean time?

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by candyred_240sx

I talked with Kelford last night and they said November but did not sound to confident about that lol.

Any suggestions for what I should run in the mean time?

The only thing we've been able to get ahold of is N1's. however Nissan is now on backorder for those

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by candyred_240sx

So my Kelford 292/303 cams were damaged (don't ask) and now new ones are on back order until November.

Just wondering if you guys have any suggestions on cams I should run in the mean time that won't leave me too disappointed compared to the Kelfords?

The setup is a stroker sr20 (87mm 8:5:1 pistons x 91mm stroker crank) with a fully Mazworx built P11 head (shimlesss) running a GTX3076 .78 twin scroll turbo, E85, high boost

SR16VE N1 is a great cam for boost and is what I'll be running on my ~500whp build. They're only $425 new.

http://nissanraceshop.com/product/ge...ust-camshafts/

[brndck]

I've run into a weird issue. My engine builder is starting on a VE-t build for one of their customers. The customer provided them with a brand new VE head. The head does not have valve seats in it. I was under the impression that the valve seats were part of the head, not pressed in (like old L-series Datsun engines), but apparently that's not the case?

does anyone happen to have access to FAST or have a part number for VE head valve seats???

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Yep, the mounting tabs need to be cut off and either rewelded back on shifted around(looks like I'll need spacers for that) or I make some new brackets out of sheet aluminum.

Sure, it's only a trip to Lowes and a night's worth of work but it's another difference I found and I thought I'd mention it for the sake of having more P12 info for people.

I'm sorry, my post sounded dismissive, that wasn't my intention. I was just saying it's not a huge issue, but yes something that needs to be addressed. We all appreciate any feedback or information shared for the greater good?

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I'm sorry, my post sounded dismissive, that wasn't my intention. I was just saying it's not a huge issue, but yes something that needs to be addressed. We all appreciate any feedback or information shared for the greater good?

It's all good

[LuckyX2]

So I started modifying my DET fuel rail and then thought about just using the P12 rail. It has those dumb two bolt flanges for the input and fpr but if I remove those, I'm left with two 11mm holes. 11mm just happens to be perfect to tap for 1/4" NPT. I could put two NPT fittings on the stock rail and then run my regular Tomei remote fpr setup I had. My one concern is that the stock fuel rail is weirdly flat. I'm wondering if that will affect flow at all. I'm thinking there might not be enough of a fuel "buffer" in the stock rail.

[LuckyX2]

Update: The Cometic 3175v-16s I mentioned before don't work. They have an ID that's very slightly too large. Were even listed as P12 seals from the seller I found...

Guess I'm going to eBay.uk and looking for an OEM replacement brand.

[LuckyX2]

Alright, so I wound up calling Andreas Miko in Miami haha. Felt a bit odd calling a stranger for car part advice but he gave me a lead. He said he thinks the GA16 engine from the Sentra had the same valve seals as the P12 20v.

Attached is FSM measurements of the valves. So at least I know they're 5.5mm, that's a start.

I'm gonna go ahead and order some. Rockauto has a bunch when I put in a 1995 1.6L Sentra. ENGINETECH S531V looks like the best one, that one is specifically listed as being made of viton, the others say rubber or nothing. Plus a pack of 20 is only $8.80

[LuckyX2]

I can finally confirm that SR20DET single valve springs work with stock P12 retainers/seats.
Also, the ENGINETECH S531V valve seals worked too.

[LuckyX2]

And here's some pics of my assembled head

[insa]

Thanks for the update and spring info

Head and overall setup look great Hope you get to drive it soon.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

I can finally confirm that SR20DET single valve springs work with stock P12 retainers/seats.
Also, the ENGINETECH S531V valve seals worked too.

What's wrong with the factory p12 springs? A you went to oem det springs or aftermarket springs?

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by insa

Thanks for the update and spring info

Head and overall setup look great Hope you get to drive it soon.

Sure, sorry it took a while. Thanks, I hope so too. Aiming to dyno tune by the end of August.

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

What's wrong with the factory p12 springs? A you went to oem det springs or aftermarket springs?

Nothing is wrong with them, I just wanted stiffer for higher RPM. Same reason why people do springs on DET heads.

I used Brian Crower BC1200 springs:
Spring Pressure: BC1200 Seat: 1.550" @ 90 lbs / Open: 1.025" @ 220 lbs

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Sure, sorry it took a while. Thanks, I hope so too. Aiming to dyno tune by the end of August.



Nothing is wrong with them, I just wanted stiffer for higher RPM. Same reason why people do springs on DET heads.

I used Brian Crower BC1200 springs:
Spring Pressure: BC1200 Seat: 1.550" @ 90 lbs / Open: 1.025" @ 220 lbs

The springs you chose aren't exactly ideal for high rpm VVL, what cams and rev limit are you looking for? We usually recommend 123lbs dual Supertechs on any VVL turbo build we do.

[TheRealSy90]

Do they not offer aftermarket springs specific for p12?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

The springs you chose aren't exactly ideal for high rpm VVL, what cams and rev limit are you looking for? We usually recommend 123lbs dual Supertechs on any VVL turbo build we do.

I think you're confusing the P11 head (which is what you guys at Mazworx seem to use) with my P12 head. The P12 valve stems are 0.5mm thinner than DET/P11's 6mm stems, so I can't use the dual spring retainers you're talking about without having retainers custom made. Supertech doesn't make P12 retainers, single or dual. Unless Honda B series engines happen to have the same spring size, they're also 5.5mm stem valves. On your own listing for Supertech springs it says: "This valvetrain kit is for the SR20VE heads except the 20V" I have the 20v (P12).

Besides, I had the 123lb dual springs on my DET and they were way too rough on my head. So much pressure, they'd chew through shims and I shattered two rocker arms too. I don't want to deal with that again.

My goal is 9k and these springs will get me there with my SR16VE N1 cams.
Redline on the stock SR16VE N1 is 8600rpm, and these springs are like 30% stiffer. Also, P12 valves are lighter than P11 valves, meaning I don't need as much spring pressure to hit the same rpm.

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Do they not offer aftermarket springs specific for p12?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope, everything is listed as either DET or P11 VE, no love for the P12 since that's a rarer swap. Thankfully DET springs work.

[LuckyX2]

Fun Fact: The P12 oil pump collar spacer is actually one piece with the timing chain gear on it. So I can't use the spacer from it like I could with the P11 which is two pieces.

So I'll be running the DET spacer with the Mazworx spacer added on, VE pump and VE pulley.

[claaasssiiiccc21]

Dumb but important question:

Those of you still running heater cores, which coolant line do you connect to the top/bottom heater core line? I have the hardline coming out of the block going to the bottom heater core fitting then I have the top heater core line going to the inner fitting on the Mazworx VE adapter water neck. Not sure if this is right as I've had the steel fitting that is pushed into the block come out when hot... assuming I have something dicked up here.

Thanks!

[LuckyX2]

It shouldn't matter, right? I mean, it will flow through either direction.

But I believe the OEM setup has the line from the thermostat on the block going to the lower heater core line and the line from the waterneck on the head going to the upper heater core line.

Also, I found another P12 difference. The timing marks on the pulley aren't the typical -5,0,5,15,20 BTDC, there's actually only 4 marks, which appear to be -5,5,15,20 BTDC since there is a gap where I would expect 0 to be marked.

[LuckyX2]

Correction, I busted out my OEM lines to check this:


Water neck and thermostat outside (further from block) goes to the upper line. Inner thermostat fitting goes to the lower line.

So on a VE waterneck adapter, one port should go to the outer thermostat and one to the upper heater core line.

[TheRealSy90]

So after all this P12 nonsense it appears to me that the P11 head is the better one to use for a VVL swap? lol.

[Busta]

All depends what better for you is. P11 is cheaper, easier to find and more documented. P12 is more recent would be best though because of improved cooling flow around the head; they come with the p12 cas that many use (400$) and single solenoid to switch the vvl that one can use and clears the firewall. The cams are decent too improving duration compared to p11 but the head costs double the money so is it really worth it?? Rhd japan sells brand New p12 cores for like 1200 I say that aint too bad cause many end up changing cams,valves and springs anyways. The killing point is rocker arms costing about 200$ new a pop (x8) if one cant find a used set; good luck with that!

For what this changes availability/money wise p11 end up being much more used than p12

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

So after all this P12 nonsense it appears to me that the P11 head is the better one to use for a VVL swap? lol.

Nope, the P12 head is better. Flows better, has better cooling and if you're keeping the stock cams, the P12 cams are better than the P11 cams (N1s are better than both). P12 will also rev higher since it has lighter valves. I'm just documenting the differences since the P12 swap is less common. Lots of little differences like valve size, gaskets, timing marks, one piece oil pump collar but nothing difficult/expensive to work around, especially now that I've laid it out for everyone with part numbers for the valve seals, valve springs etc.

It's also incorrect to say the P12 is the more expensive swap, like most people think. Let me break it down. This is based on the current eBay price of $750 for whole P11 and $1500 for a whole P12 with 6 speed trans and all accessories.

I am not including parts that both will need in this comparison like the oil pickup, water neck, etc.

P11:
+$750
+$300 for solenoid relocation and lines/fittings
+$300 for hall sensor or P12 CAS
+$450 for N1 cams
-$150 selling the P11 cams (undesirable/hard sell)
Total: $1650 with N1 cams, $1350 with stock cams

P12:
+$1500
+$450 for N1 cams
-$300 selling P12 cams (P11 guys will buy P12 cams, this is what mine sold for)
-$500 selling 6 speed trans (Sentra guys with 5 speeds or autos desire this swap)
Total: $1150 with N1 cams, $1000 with stock cams

There's more you can part out of the P12 and sell to P11 guys like the pistons and stuff, but I think you get the general idea. The P12 already having the right CAS and not needing to relocate the solenoid helps a lot. Plus I don't like the idea of solenoid relocation anyway, a bunch of extra lines to crowd up the bay and potentially leak.