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Old 06-20-2019, 10:02 AM   #12031
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Why do people still want full electric vehicles when it's been proven that it causes more pollution mining the battery materials than will be saved by not having an ICE powered car..
because the general public doesnt do research, doesnt care about underlying issues because it requires too much thought and they know jack shit about cars. the general public these days doesnt give 2 shits about technology nor do they care about understanding it. they just want technology to work like their cell phones.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:27 AM   #12032
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It’s crazy that a 760hp mustang is barely exciting anymore. Obviously it’s still dope but it’s practically super car unattainable so it doesn’t even doing anything or me.

Yet somehow the manual 414hp Caymen GT4 announced this week (which is more expensive) go me all excited.
why do you say unattainable? the gt4 is like over 100k already. My guess is the gt500 wont be far off the $100k point with dealer markups. but thats also speculation.

what I dont like about the gt500 is lack of manual, but not necc a terrible thing for me as I hate mustang shifters.

agreed the cayman gt4 is awesome and glad its got a flat 6 w manual.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...s-specs-price/
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:59 AM   #12033
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why do you say unattainable? the gt4 is like over 100k already. My guess is the gt500 wont be far off the $100k point with dealer markups. but thats also speculation.

what I dont like about the gt500 is lack of manual, but not necc a terrible thing for me as I hate mustang shifters.
I feel like the dealer mark up on the GT500s is going to be obnoxious. That, and I honestly think the 500 is hideous compared to the 350. The lack of a manual is just another strike.

Meanwhile the GT4 would easily be available to order at a dealer. I also happen to think the current design of the Caymen is one of best looking Porches of all time. The fact that there’s a manual further drives home the fact that that would be the car for me.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:24 PM   #12034
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Flappy paddles are great for the track and shaving every tenth off lap times. But driving to the track or to work or just the store, the operation of a manual is a lot more fun imo
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Old 06-28-2019, 03:51 PM   #12035
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gt500 priced at around $74k. $18.5k for the aero & carbon wheels. $10k for painted stripes.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-ford-m...-30-1835940835

not terrible if you can actually get it at $74k, but I like the value of the gt350 more. the options are just offensively priced. when you factor in adm, its not going to be far off from a zr1 or porsche gt3. im not liking this very much so far.
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:20 PM   #12036
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Originally Posted by ronmcdon View Post
gt500 priced at around $74k. $18.5k for the aero & carbon wheels. $10k for painted stripes.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-ford-m...-30-1835940835

not terrible if you can actually get it at $74k, but I like the value of the gt350 more. the options are just offensively priced. when you factor in adm, its not going to be far off from a zr1 or porsche gt3. im not liking this very much so far.
A used GT3.


Charger for the win.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:00 AM   #12037
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gt500 priced at around $74k. $18.5k for the aero & carbon wheels. $10k for painted stripes.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-ford-m...-30-1835940835

not terrible if you can actually get it at $74k, but I like the value of the gt350 more. the options are just offensively priced. when you factor in adm, its not going to be far off from a zr1 or porsche gt3. im not liking this very much so far.
Yeah $90k before any mark up, and that’s almost guaranteed. Even though it’s almost half the hp, if still rather have a GT4 with a manual.

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A used GT3.


Charger for the win.
It’s funny how much we and the automotive press rip on Nissan for decade old platforms but it’s perfectly fine for FCA.

I do like how this thing looks.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:59 AM   #12038
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For me, actually listening to what your customers want, and how much real, meaningful work done to update the platform says a lot too.
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:52 AM   #12039
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they look good and all, until you get up close and realize it's a boat. Not that there isn't a market for it.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:50 PM   #12040
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I need a 4+ door vehicle that's still reasonably fun to drive, and I'd consider a 392 Charger if it were offered in a manual. Kinda left with the Chevrolet SS, or hunting for a G8 GXP.

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Old 06-30-2019, 05:43 PM   #12041
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Ctsv? It fits the bill... Look at the older ones.

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Old 07-01-2019, 09:44 AM   #12042
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Yeah $90k before any mark up, and that’s almost guaranteed. Even though it’s almost half the hp, if still rather have a GT4 with a manual.







It’s funny how much we and the automotive press rip on Nissan for decade old platforms but it’s perfectly fine for FCA.



I do like how this thing looks.
LX Platform dates back to damn near 1998, meaning it's almost 20 years old. (Ever wonder why the Intrepid, Concord and 300m had transmission tunnels and longitundal engines?)

The deal is, FCA has made meaningful updates to the car in terms of styling, build quality, interior design and powertrain.

The GTR and 370Z remain almost entirely unchanged. The small tweaks made to the GTR seem to be totally mitigated by the fact its nearly doubled in price since launch.

The 370Z has been utterly uncompetitive since 2011 and introduction of the Coyote engine. I'm honestly shocked we had 4k idiots buy that car last year. Compare the Z33 and Z34 ands clear consumers liked the 350 way more. Nissan should have immediately hit "refresh" after the first 4 misserible sales years.





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Old 07-01-2019, 09:48 AM   #12043
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Also despite its weight, the LX cars do hang with the completion and can "turn".

In C&D's lighting lap, at VIR, WB Hellcat is spanking some seriously dedicated track oriented cars like the Boss 302, older Z06, Ford GT, Viper, GT3, M4, etc.

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Old 07-01-2019, 10:02 AM   #12044
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a newer platform doesnt always translate to stronger sales either (ie - camaro or miata). I think what really counts is keeping in touch with what customers want and working dilligently on updates such that the car remains commercially competitive despite age of the platform. if its a good product today, most are not counting the age of the platform.

pleasing enthusiasts I imagine is also hard as hell, as they are often nitpicky about so many things.

regarding the lightning lap, its interesting to see in the past decade how most american & european cars have improved. many of the fast cars, like the mustang performance pack 2, have remained a reasonably strong value.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:05 AM   #12045
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a newer platform doesnt always translate to stronger sales either (ie - camaro or miata). I think what really counts is keeping in touch with what customers want and working dilligently on updates such that the car remains commercially competitive despite age of the platform. if its a good product today, most are not counting the age of the platform.

pleasing enthusiasts I imagine is also hard as hell, as they are often nitpicky about so many things.
Agreed, and that's why it's important to please "casual enthusiasts".

It's great to jerk off on track times, but if the car is not prarcial, hard to see out of, expensive and ugly as sin, it's not going to sell (Ala Camaro).

FCA knows it's buyers and knows they are commuting to work and only occasionally seeing the strip or dirt. This is why the Wrangler got 4drs and more cozy, this is why Cheerokes are Mall Rated and the Charger/Challengers make oodles of torque and cool burn outs while being the size of minivans.

I think the Miata failed because while technically superior, it's just to small for the American market. It's a toy, not a sexy/cute drop top fit for commuting traffic and practical living.

The GTFRZ86 is another great example. Toyota should have led with the Celica nameplate for brand recognition and provided an up powered engine. It's a sports car that literally gets smoked by Honda minivans in traffic. H6, Turbo 4, 2.5, whatever, it needed a minimum of 250hp.

Telling consumers theh are wrong is never the correct answer.

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Old 07-01-2019, 11:52 AM   #12046
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Yeah I think the Japanese as a whole, have been pretty terrible with staying in touch with what the american consumer wants.

I really like the camaro myself but agree it didnt effectively address the demand for better outwards visability and a visual design that differentiated itself further from its predessor. thankfully for me, poor performing sales also means attractive discounts and no adm.

it will be interesting to see how well the new corvette does in temes of sales.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:46 PM   #12047
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The GTFRZ86 is another great example. Toyota should have led with the Celica nameplate for brand recognition and provided an up powered engine. It's a sports car that literally gets smoked by Honda minivans in traffic. H6, Turbo 4, 2.5, whatever, it needed a minimum of 250hp.

Telling consumers theh are wrong is never the correct answer.
It’s interesting. The BRZGTFRS86 I wanted to like that car when it came out. I considered buying one. The engine totally dismayed me. I really am not a fan of Subie engines. Especially the one they stuck in this car. So that left me playing with my M3”s and plotting the acquisition of another S30 Z. Then looking for a daily I stumbled across Fords European arm brilliance. For the first time in a long I found a new car that I felt was worth purchasing and I did!
Now I eye the GT86 and think wow put a FoST engine in that thing and it would haul ass. Ya either a FoST or even a FiST engine and that car would have balls and go like stink.
Call me crazy, I don”t know if I will ever buy a new car again. My sports car tastes have gone classic or upstream. A Caymen is an idea I think I would get one of those over an M2.
Camaro great on paper ugly in real world, Mustang I go back and forth. New Vette could be very interesting.
In the end the car has to deliver the visceral feel.
Oh and ya I do have a weak spot for a Guila Qaudrafogglio call me crazy.

Notice how there are no modern Japanese cars in this assement outside of a used GT86 with an engine swap? :rolf:
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Old 07-01-2019, 03:02 PM   #12048
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Id be cautious with any Porsche just because you often get reamed with lots expensive options you may not need. Good luck finding a stripper model or something close to it.

The fist would make a fun daily and cheap to run car on the track, but it's just not that fast of a car. I was really tempted to trade in my beater for a used fist earlier this year. Seems like it would be enjoyable to deliver pizzas in one.

on separate topic, seems like c7 is confirmed to be dead. was really hoping it’d be built along the more expensive c8. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-2-7-million/
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:51 PM   #12049
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Id be cautious with any Porsche just because you often get reamed with lots expensive options you may not need. Good luck finding a stripper model or something close to it.

The fist would make a fun daily and cheap to run car on the track, but it's just not that fast of a car. I was really tempted to trade in my beater for a used fist earlier this year. Seems like it would be enjoyable to deliver pizzas in one.

on separate topic, seems like c7 is confirmed to be dead. was really hoping it’d be built along the more expensive c8. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-2-7-million/
Actually FiSTs respond real well to upgrades and can be made fast . There are now 11 second Hybrid Turbo FiST’s out there and the Hybrid Turbo from Whoosh motorsports is $1299 after core exchange. Looks bone stock underhood Turbo wise.
300whp FiST”s are getting pretty common and I have to tell you on track and in the Canyons they are absolute monsters. They actually win a lot in Autocross a lot which are pretty stock.
Plus it feels fast and will put a guaranteed smile on your face. It is by far the the best FWD drive car I have ever driven and does not drive like a FWD drive car. On top of that throw ( aka non Torque Vectoring magic) a real LSD in it and if you did not know you would think it was awd or RWD.
Its a great daily and awesome Canyon/track car. I even know RS track guys that are now tracking FiST’s. Look up Rome Medrano. He runs Thunderhill and Seca all the time in a Green Envy FiST.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:38 PM   #12050
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I’m sure its a good car to mod, but I’d rather just pay more up front for a car I dont need to mod all that much from the factory. maybe im old, but I just value reliability a lot more. Mods add up in cost way too easily, reliability can be a risk, and for me gets to be addictive behavior.

I’m happy with my evo with suspension parts and bolt ons Ive got sitting around from another evo I got rid of. Otherwise Im content to move on with the expense and hassle of car modding.

besides, I think the fist is a good car stock as is. I cant imagine needing to replace more than tires, brake fluids, pads, and get a good alignment. what makes a car like that fun to me, is I imagine its limits are more accessible. it makes it a fun street car.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:45 PM   #12051
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^
That’s where I’m at. If I ever do get a fun car again that is. I’ve been spoiled with new cars for way too long.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:10 PM   #12052
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I just dont have the patience or time for fixing up older cars. Looking back, I regret ever getting into it and wish I could have just done more track days with something like a relatively bone stock evo or miata instead. Those were my best car memories.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:50 PM   #12053
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Man, as I get older I feel like tinkering even more. Not heavy modding, but just building something more fun than factory AND still fairly reliable (my SR stays around 350HP for that reason). The new cars leave me so bummed. I realize driving my daily that I don't enjoy driving anymore. I need to get my s14 back up and finished, there is something so pure about driving it.

I don't really think anything these days grabs my attention, except for as Drift Freaq said - a used GT86 w/ different motor. The rest of anything under 50k doesn't excite me much these days, and that is a statement that applies to domestic, JDM, KDM, or anything else.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:43 AM   #12054
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I just dont have the patience or time for fixing up older cars. Looking back, I regret ever getting into it and wish I could have just done more track days with something like a relatively bone stock evo or miata instead. Those were my best car memories.
Yeah 3 kids and being a freelance photographer doesn’t afford me much spare time.

I used to auto x my bone stock 240’s and loved it. I really loved running significantly faster times than expensive modded cars. There’s a real sense of accomplishment from that.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:02 AM   #12055
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RIP Lee. A true automotive icon.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:10 AM   #12056
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RIP Lee. A true automotive icon.
He was so young...
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:15 AM   #12057
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I have to agree with the sentiment of getting old and not being amused with spending more time wrenching then driving.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:42 AM   #12058
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He was so young...
Hahaha, dude was old af.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:55 AM   #12059
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I have to agree with the sentiment of getting old and not being amused with spending more time wrenching then driving.
eh... ive been wreching and working on my 240 A LOT lately. it sat in my garage dormant for 2 years and finally getting back into it again has been bringing me a lot of happiness finally seeing major progress being made! trying to have the car 95% done by this time next year! that includes body work and paint (car goes in for tuning and tons of engine bay goodies in 2 weeks).
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:23 PM   #12060
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Yeah I too wish I spent less time modding/wrenching and more time just driving. While I DID do a lot of driving, I wish I spent all that 'mod' money for track events and such. While I can afford to now, I don't have the car and time anymore. Now that I'm thinking of getting another S13, these shits are hard to find non-salvage/non-abused nowadays.

I daily a Prius (fuck me, i know), and the garage queen is an SMG E46 M3 I inherited. While the M3 is GREAT, it's overkill for what makes me happy; and that's having the "driving a slow car fast" feeling. While it's fun as hell occasionally bombing down the 10 with it, it's not a stickshift. Something way more visceral about driving an SR-swapped base model manual S13, made spirited driving a WAY more engaging experience. Sadly very few cars out now can probably give me that same feeling. Sounds like a Miata or FiST can do that.
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