S14 SR20DET no spark signal

[patchan]

Hi Everyone,

I have a s14 sr20det motor, all stock with minor bolt-ons, running PowerFC. The car was recently running, and after cleaning up the wiring, the car would not start anymore, only crank.

I checked continuity to all the wires that were touched, even the ones that weren't, all seemed to be ok. Checked all the fuses. Fuel pump is priming, and im getting fuel pressure, 35psi when primed and 45psi when cranking. When testing for spark, I didnt see any spark on the plug.

Since there was no spark, this is what Ive tested so far:
Coil packharness - getting power and ground, rechecked wiring via FSM
Swapped out with 2 good ignitor chips. These were tested when my car was still running.
Swapped out my PowerFC with my stock ECU - still same results.
Ran continuity testing from plugs back to ECU - all reading ok.

I figure its not the CAS since im getting fuel. I've found some other threads with similar problems, but didnt see any conclusion on how they got their car started. Anyone had this problem before? Any suggestions on what to test or how to test. Seems like Im just not getting signal to the coilpacks to fire the plugs right now.

Thanks!

[VNG704]

quick toss but, clutch interlock relay?

[patchan]

Originally Posted by VNG704

quick toss but, clutch interlock relay?

Thanks for a quick reply. I checked all the relays and they all seem to be good.

[patchan]

Does anyone know if shortening the wires that plugs into the coilpack harness will mess anything up? Because it is the only thing I can think of that I really changed when I tried to clean up the wiring.

To clarify, im talking about the wires coming from the firewall to the plug that connects to the coilpack harness, not the wires on the coilpack harness itself.

Thanks!

[ellococt]

I would check the cas sensor for that could be one of the main reasons why you don't have spark im not sure but if the cas is in the distributor like a ka engine all you do is take the distributor completely out and spin it while checking voltage with a dmm it should fluctuate from 0 to 5v

[jholman]

What all did you shorten?

[jr_ss]

Just because you have fuel pressure doesn't mean your injectors are firing. Usually when you have a spark issue, you have an injector no fire situation as well. Pull one of your plugs after you crank it and see if you're getting fuel. These two are related and come back to the CAS. Since you messed with the harness, make sure you reterminated the wires back to their correct spot. I have a feeling you have a wire off on the CP side.

[Silvia716]

Did you pull all the packs and make sure they all worked or did you just check the harness for power? And you fuel filter could stop the flow if its real old.

[patchan]

Originally Posted by ellococt

I would check the cas sensor for that could be one of the main reasons why you don't have spark im not sure but if the cas is in the distributor like a ka engine all you do is take the distributor completely out and spin it while checking voltage with a dmm it should fluctuate from 0 to 5v

Ellococt, Im thinking more and more I might of messed up the CAS wiring when i pinned them back. Seems like other threads I read with similar issue were CAS related.

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Just because you have fuel pressure doesn't mean your injectors are firing. Usually when you have a spark issue, you have an injector no fire situation as well. Pull one of your plugs after you crank it and see if you're getting fuel. These two are related and come back to the CAS. Since you messed with the harness, make sure you reterminated the wires back to their correct spot. I have a feeling you have a wire off on the CP side.

jr_ss, I was smelling fuel when i took the plugs out, so I assumed I was getting gas. When I tested the plugs, I didnt see spark so I figure it was just me not getting spark at the moment.

Originally Posted by Silvia716

Did you pull all the packs and make sure they all worked or did you just check the harness for power? And you fuel filter could stop the flow if its real old.

Silvia716, Im pretty sure the packs were all working since my car started up before I tried to clean up my wiring. And i swapped it with another set of packs also with the same results. I changed the fuel filter maybe a year or two ago. Car hasnt been driven much since then, maybe around less than 1000 miles. and I smelled gas from the cylinder when i took the plug out, so i think gas is getting thru.

thank you all for the suggestions. really appreciate it. It's probably something real simple like me messing up a wire somewhere.

Does anyone have a picture of their wiring for the CAS on a S14 sr20 by any chance so I can compare it to my wiring? I would post up a picture but I am at work right now so I cant get to my car. I have a feeling that I might of messed up the wiring for it now that i think about it more and more. Thanks!

[ellococt]

cas and temp sensor connections [sr20det] theres a picture there with the CAS connector and pin out guide i would make sure i have all 4 readings on the wires 2 signals , power, ground. The 2 signal wires need to have 5v, the power has to have battery voltage and gound is ground

[patchan]

Originally Posted by ellococt

cas and temp sensor connections [sr20det] theres a picture there with the CAS connector and pin out guide i would make sure i have all 4 readings on the wires 2 signals , power, ground. The 2 signal wires need to have 5v, the power has to have battery voltage and gound is ground

Ellococt, thanks for the link. I actually ran into that page earlier when I was searching around. But I'm a little confused on that diagram, from the S14 FSM, page EC-109, its showing different pin numbers going to the ECU, not sure what EC36 is. From what I see in the FSM
PIN 1 - B - Ground
PIN 2 - B/W - splices into ECCS relay and pin49,59 on ECU
PIN 3 - B - ECU pins 42,52 (position signal)
PIN 4 - W - ECU pins 41,43 (reference signal)

So im not sure where pins 13,25,26,27 are from. Either way i'll be testing the pins again tonight on the cas plug. Thanks!

[ellococt]

Originally Posted by patchan

Ellococt, thanks for the link. I actually ran into that page earlier when I was searching around. But I'm a little confused on that diagram, from the S14 FSM, page EC-109, its showing different pin numbers going to the ECU, not sure what EC36 is. From what I see in the FSM
PIN 1 - B - Ground
PIN 2 - B/W - splices into ECCS relay and pin49,59 on ECU
PIN 3 - B - ECU pins 42,52 (position signal)
PIN 4 - W - ECU pins 41,43 (reference signal)

So im not sure where pins 13,25,26,27 are from. Either way i'll be testing the pins again tonight on the cas plug. Thanks!

i should have looked at the FSM, yeah now it makes sense with your link so just check those pins good luck

[patchan]

I checked my CAS wiring last night. everything looks good. Checked for power and ground. thats all good too. I was able to borrow another CAS from a friend, i tried to plug that in and see if it would spin if i tried to crank the car. is the CAS suppose to spin by itself if I have it out of the motor? When I tried to spin the CAS manually with the key in the ON position, I didnt notice any clicking coming from my injectors either. I guess either the CAS i borrowed is shot too or something with the wiring for the signal? Anyone have any ideas on this? Thanks!

[jr_ss]

Are you positive the pins aren't in the wrong spot? Usually when you look at the pin out you're looking from either the back of the connector or the front of it. I'm unsure as I don't have an FSM ATM. But I've done it before and pinned them all int he wrong spot because I was looking at the connector wrong.

[patchan]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Are you positive the pins aren't in the wrong spot? Usually when you look at the pin out you're looking from either the back of the connector or the front of it. I'm unsure as I don't have an FSM ATM. But I've done it before and pinned them all int he wrong spot because I was looking at the connector wrong.

jr_ss, yea, im pretty sure. I took a picture of it before I depinned them. I doubted myself too so I did check the FSM again. I also went to a friends house and took a look at his wiring too. Checked for continuity from each pin back to the ecu too.



That's what my plug and wire colors look like. Im waiting for my other CAS to come in so I can test with that. Thanks!

[JDMRIDDAZ]

uh no spark means bad cas or ignitor....
these emit tac signal ie spark
as long as ur double sure u wired e plug rite which is easy to do with schematic
put back stock ecu
try to crank then check ecu codes
or connect consult
read codes if it says cas
fix it and have an ignitor on hand to swap out

[patchan]

Originally Posted by JDMRIDDAZ

uh no spark means bad cas or ignitor....
these emit tac signal ie spark
as long as ur double sure u wired e plug rite which is easy to do with schematic
put back stock ecu
try to crank then check ecu codes
or connect consult
read codes if it says cas
fix it and have an ignitor on hand to swap out

Jdmriddaz, yea, I swapped out with 2 other ignitors and stock ecu already. Still the same results for now. Got a cas on the way in the mail, so just waiting for that to come in and see if that's the problem.

[jr_ss]

Yeah, your wiring checks out on my harness too. I see that you have a CAS on the way, I was going to offer you mine to check that.

[patchan]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Yeah, your wiring checks out on my harness too. I see that you have a CAS on the way, I was going to offer you mine to check that.

Thanks for the offer. Yea, i have 2 coming in actually, just in case. I might run new signal wire straight to the ECU also just to make sure its not a wiring problem, since I know power and ground is ok when i tested. I'll post up results after the CAS comes in. Thanks!

[patchan]

Just an update,

I plugged my old ECU and used the consult port. Looks like im pulling a code 11 for the CAS. Tried testing the CAS, but the voltage seems to only read about .01V when i spin it. I was able to get 3 other cas to test with, all reading the same output. Is the manual right that its suppose to fluctuate between 5-.1V? I tried to spin the cas by hand and with a drill, same results. Only other thing I can think of next is to run new signal wiring straight from the ecu to the cas and give that a shot. Going to pick up some wire and try this tomorrow.

Any other suggestions are still welcome since the car still doesnt start yet.

Thanks!

[patchan]

Another update,
I ran new signal wires from the cas straight to the ecu and still throwing a code 11 for cas.

Has anyone had any experience using the consult port and one of the programs (ECUTalk, datascan, etc)? I noticed my timing it had a reading of 5* btdc. Shouldnt it be reading the 15* from when I reinstalled the cas? This is the first time using these softwares, so not too familiar with it. Any input would help.

Thanks!

[patchan]

bump for any suggestions? Thanks!

[JDMtyteYO!]

try cas wiring...
i had the same problem with one of my redtops, replaced the cas and found some screwed up wiring and fixed the problem

:sorry if it was mentioned before, i didnt want to read every post lol

[patchan]

Originally Posted by JDMtyteYO!

try cas wiring...
i had the same problem with one of my redtops, replaced the cas and found some screwed up wiring and fixed the problem

:sorry if it was mentioned before, i didnt want to read every post lol

haha, all good. Yea, I checked the ground and power wire, and they were both reading ok from my multimeter. So I decided to run new signal wiring straight from the CAS to the ECU. That still didnt give me any luck and it was still throwing a code 11 for the CAS. I replaced the CAS with another one I had and still the same. I tried to test it by using another cas and hooking up the wiring to that one, and turning it by hand, but I was only getting like 0.01V instead of the 5-0.1V the FSM suggested.

I have 4 different CAS right now and i tried the spinning test with 3 of them, all with the 0.01V reading. I accumulated another 2 more ignitor chips on top of the 3 I already had too. Still not starting after swaping all that. Swapped my PowerFC back to stock ecu for now to check codes. Still stumped.

[keaning]

did you ever find out what happened I'm having the same problem right now

[ferlepo]

Originally Posted by patchan

haha, all good. Yea, I checked the ground and power wire, and they were both reading ok from my multimeter. So I decided to run new signal wiring straight from the CAS to the ECU. That still didnt give me any luck and it was still throwing a code 11 for the CAS. I replaced the CAS with another one I had and still the same. I tried to test it by using another cas and hooking up the wiring to that one, and turning it by hand, but I was only getting like 0.01V instead of the 5-0.1V the FSM suggested.

I have 4 different CAS right now and i tried the spinning test with 3 of them, all with the 0.01V reading. I accumulated another 2 more ignitor chips on top of the 3 I already had too. Still not starting after swaping all that. Swapped my PowerFC back to stock ecu for now to check codes. Still stumped.

Did you find it? I have the same problem