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Old 02-27-2012, 10:18 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_K View Post
Can anyone validate the injector info above.

Using the calcuator here:
Calculators: Horsepower/Kilowatt Conversions

550CC will suffice for a 250 HP goal.
It's based a little low from what I have experienced, but my motor might make a little more power than a stock SR.

I have S14 SR20 with pretty much ARP and balanced everything, with CP 10.5-1 pistons. stock rebuilt head.
- Pwr FC D-jetro
- 2871r with Garrett 44mm tial external Exhaust side ( really cool) stock manifold with heat shield !! sleeper unless you really look.
- walbro

with 550 detchworks i maxed out at 287whp at 13lb with 95% injector duty

now I have 850cc Subaru side feeds.. forgot company and I make 380whp on 22lbs with around 70ish% injector duty

The chart is a good ballpark estimator.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:37 PM   #122
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I know it's different with each engine, but how much timing did you guys end up adding to the map? Im having trouble with my tuner...i dont know if i fully trust what hes doing....so i have been researching a bunch and im thinking of tackling fixing the tune myself instead of taking it to someone else.

My setup is: s14SR20det, 520cc injectors, t28, powerFC, z32maf, FMIC, E85, hbc pro, aem wideband.

Now before my change over to e85 boost was kicking in around 2500rpm and pulling hard at 12psi the whole way. Ever since I have changed over, my boost hits 5psi at 2krpm and slowly creeps up as the rpm's rise and hits max of 15psi at about 5500rpm...it sucks. I have checked for boost leaks and vacuum leaks. Could this be an ignition timing problem? Maybe not enough timing? Here's a screen shot of my current timing map, please tell me what you guys think....i really need to get my car back on the track, im dying to tear it up : / Also at idle my wideband reads around 15.5-16.5, WOT is 11.0-12.0, cruising 16.5-17+ (super lean?) Highest engine knock I have seen under full load has been 25.

PS: The car has only been street tuned, we have not tuned on the dyno yet. From what i read when tuning timing you just keep adding it so long as your power keeps increasing and your not knocking a bunch?


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Old 02-28-2012, 04:14 AM   #123
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timing wise, with e85 : add timing unless you dont get more power (real power, not "seat feel power") or your EGTs are too high. You should never get knock or det. Remember changing timing affect AFR too ...And i think you are too lean on cruise. I usually set it at 15:1 (i did not change the fuel type setting on my wideband gauge, so it means just a bit leaner than stoeich). I did add timing everywhere, but i increased it less at peak VE than everywhere else. I cant say how much i added as i was using a custom map before, so you cant really compare to a chip tune.

Turbo going that badly on boost is a problem, it usually starts to spool a bit later (like 100rpm later) but it pulls stronger so you get your full boost at the same time, if not sooner.

I think your injectors are maxed though, my 510cc are maxed with a t28r and a 1.8L engine so yours should be too.
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:20 PM   #124
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I have read through this thread and it is very intersting. The thing I am most concerned with is the size of fuel lines needed. I remember a thread a while back on here that talked about the return fuel being too hot if you used fuel lines that are too large. I am looking at making 700+hp and using e85 for the most part. So should I go with -8 feed and -6 return or -10 feed and -8 return. There is a pretty good thread on evolutionm.net discussing e85 fuel set ups and they suggest running -6 feed and return. Just wanted to see what you guys think.

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Old 02-29-2012, 10:07 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croustibat View Post
timing wise, with e85 : add timing unless you dont get more power (real power, not "seat feel power") or your EGTs are too high. You should never get knock or det. Remember changing timing affect AFR too ...And i think you are too lean on cruise. I usually set it at 15:1 (i did not change the fuel type setting on my wideband gauge, so it means just a bit leaner than stoeich). I did add timing everywhere, but i increased it less at peak VE than everywhere else. I cant say how much i added as i was using a custom map before, so you cant really compare to a chip tune.

Turbo going that badly on boost is a problem, it usually starts to spool a bit later (like 100rpm later) but it pulls stronger so you get your full boost at the same time, if not sooner.

I think your injectors are maxed though, my 510cc are maxed with a t28r and a 1.8L engine so yours should be too.
Ok, we figured out the problem, did a boost test under air pressure and found that something was whistling on top of the intake manifold...turned out the vacuum source for the FPR was T'd off with nothing hooked up to the other side of the T! That fixed my problem...boost kicks in nice and early as it should now. We retuned on the street, and will being finishing with a dyno tune in the next month or so for getting the most out of my timing.

As far as my injectors being maxed out, yes they are, but i have a reason why i went with these injectors. I didn't want to get into a big build yet (want to enjoy my car for at least a full track season) so i figured the best bang for my buck would be to get some Subaru STI injectors and max them out on e85 at 15psi (didnt want to throw more boost that that on the t28). My thoughts are I will have a super reliable setup at 300whp. My injectors cost me $40 off someone on craigslist, had them cleaned and flow tested at $10 a piece, and got some subaru injector clips off some random legacy in the junk yard for like $2....so 50-60hp increase for under $100 is OK in my book

Another big plus...my wife doesn't complain of the smell of gas in the garage anymore! Just the smell of sweet sweet E85.

Now i'm about 300miles in since the fuel change, when should i start thinking of changing out my fuel filter? If i need to at all...
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:16 AM   #126
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E-85 FTW!
F**k 93 and $4.00 a gallon.
E-85 is $2.12 by house.
And we all love the smell of E-85.
Sounds like a win win to me. except for the gas mileage. lol
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:23 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasTiff View Post
Ok, we figured out the problem, did a boost test under air pressure and found that something was whistling on top of the intake manifold...turned out the vacuum source for the FPR was T'd off with nothing hooked up to the other side of the T! That fixed my problem...boost kicks in nice and early as it should now. We retuned on the street, and will being finishing with a dyno tune in the next month or so for getting the most out of my timing.

As far as my injectors being maxed out, yes they are, but i have a reason why i went with these injectors. I didn't want to get into a big build yet (want to enjoy my car for at least a full track season) so i figured the best bang for my buck would be to get some Subaru STI injectors and max them out on e85 at 15psi (didnt want to throw more boost that that on the t28). My thoughts are I will have a super reliable setup at 300whp. My injectors cost me $40 off someone on craigslist, had them cleaned and flow tested at $10 a piece, and got some subaru injector clips off some random legacy in the junk yard for like $2....so 50-60hp increase for under $100 is OK in my book

Another big plus...my wife doesn't complain of the smell of gas in the garage anymore! Just the smell of sweet sweet E85.

Now i'm about 300miles in since the fuel change, when should i start thinking of changing out my fuel filter? If i need to at all...
Maxed injectors tend to overheat and end up dying. It takes some times though... I know why you did that, i went the same route with mitsu evo injectors. Straight fit on a CA, same plug, same gaskets, just a bit shorter which makes them even easier to fit. Latency is around 800µs which is high for 500cc but still acceptable. Got them for 80Ł at the time ... Still I think i will get hIgh Z 1050 FICs or ID1000 soon for peace of mind. It should also give better fuel mileage due to better fuel spray and shorter openings (meaning the fuel will be sent in the engine, and not on a closed valve most of the time). I think they are around 400-450$ .

fuel filter : You seem to have an AFR gauge, so check it. When it starts to go lean on boost, or stutters, time to change it.

I had to change mine twice (was completely clogged) at 1000km intervals, but the car is old and must have been sitting a lot. E85 cleans your fuel system, so everything goes to the filter; if it is already clean, it wont be much blocked.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:53 AM   #128
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only problem I have with E85 is that not many places around me carry it...
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:52 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imarvin240 View Post
only problem I have with E85 is that not many places around me carry it...
If you want the best of both worlds, get a nistune and switch to a regular pump gas mapping when there is no e85 near you. You will still have a bit of e85 in your fuel tank, which means you may have to richen it a bit. I did that some years ago, when e85 was just starting and pump stations were out of e85 for months.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:27 AM   #130
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I would also recommend looking at Pro-Efi standalone with E-85. If you look at the 2jz/supra based community, they rave about the amazing ability that the EFI system presents.

I may be wrong but most people who I have spoken to and run E-85 recommend 1200 cc injectors at a minimum if your looking to make any kind of "serious" power. Would make sense because of the fuel consumption increase. Cant wait to try this in my new set up.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #131
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There is a reason: you cant mod a toyota ECU.

While a nistune or a similar system costs between 300$ and 500$ .

You dont need 1200cc injectors unless going for 500+ HP on a CA or a SR. i am getting 300HP out of 510cc injectors, will be switching to 1000s for peace of mind, room for future upgrades (i hit 100% duty at 1bar, and i plan running 1.2), and the fact new 1000ccs have better latency than older 700-800cc (which would be what i need).

injector wise, make sure you get high Z injectors and bin the dropping resistor box. SR and CA ECUs use a saturated injector driver, which fits high Z injectors. Using peak and hold injectors with a dropping resistor works.. for small injectors. Getting above 750/800 creates troubles.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:40 AM   #132
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Sorry if this has been covered.

What are the benefits to running e85 N/A?

I am seriously thinking of converting my 240 over to e85 when I swap my VQ in, would be easy enough since I have done almost all the supporting mods already.

Everything I see in here is referring to boosted cars. The injector + sizing should be the same correct? (+25% basically)

It seems like this would be something really easy to tune NA, as you don't have to worry about being too rich or too lean in boost.


It will be a mildish build, My VQ is fresh with 0 miles forged internals rebuild with stock compression. I will be adding JWT s1 cams, and after that just basic bolt ones (I already have a lightweight flywheel, intake, 3 " single exhaust, planning on fabbing up some long tube headers, solid driveshaft etc etc blah blah blah)

I am really hoping I can break the 300 whp mark with a mild street build, a great tune, and e85, if this even feasible? should I just stick to pump gas?


Tuning is my weak point with cars, so any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.



*edit, I live in CO, EVERY gas stationed has an E85 pump here, and it is actually a LOT cheaper than 91 pump gas. it is just a track car, I have a DD.


*edit edit, also should a 255 lph in tank Walbro be enough for this mild of a build?
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:42 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croustibat View Post
If you want the best of both worlds, get a nistune and switch to a regular pump gas mapping when there is no e85 near you. You will still have a bit of e85 in your fuel tank, which means you may have to richen it a bit. I did that some years ago, when e85 was just starting and pump stations were out of e85 for months.
Martin @ R.S Enthalpy has the dual tune too!
Whichever combo of gases you want he can do.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:43 AM   #134
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Correct....Supra/Toyota ECU's are a pain to work with. But if your going to go Standalone it may be worth a while to look at the EFI's as an option...just my 2 cents.

Correct #2 .....I agree that the 1200's would only be needed for +500hp goals. 1000's would be more than enough for most but some of us who are looking at bigger power goals should look at 1200's as a starting point.

Great minds think alike
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:05 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revcyanide View Post
Sorry if this has been covered.

What are the benefits to running e85 N/A?

I am seriously thinking of converting my 240 over to e85 when I swap my VQ in, would be easy enough since I have done almost all the supporting mods already.

Everything I see in here is referring to boosted cars. The injector + sizing should be the same correct? (+25% basically)

It seems like this would be something really easy to tune NA, as you don't have to worry about being too rich or too lean in boost.


It will be a mildish build, My VQ is fresh with 0 miles forged internals rebuild with stock compression. I will be adding JWT s1 cams, and after that just basic bolt ones (I already have a lightweight flywheel, intake, 3 " single exhaust, planning on fabbing up some long tube headers, solid driveshaft etc etc blah blah blah)

I am really hoping I can break the 300 whp mark with a mild street build, a great tune, and e85, if this even feasible? should I just stick to pump gas?


Tuning is my weak point with cars, so any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.



*edit, I live in CO, EVERY gas stationed has an E85 pump here, and it is actually a LOT cheaper than 91 pump gas. it is just a track car, I have a DD.


*edit edit, also should a 255 lph in tank Walbro be enough for this mild of a build?
dialing AFRs is not hard. Dialing timing is hard and time consuming, and the power gain (or loss, or death of engine) is there.

Benefits are low on an N/A, a bit crispier response, a bit more power.

It works wonder on charged engines because it can use more boost. e85 is just a very high octane fuel. If you plan on driving ALWAYS on e85, install high compression pistons or get the head grinded with a thin headgasket. I think you could go as high as 14 / 15:1 compression ratio. THAT will give you an insanely reactive engine, and some power too ... if the bearings, crank and pistons can take it.

The whole point of e85 is "high octane". It is around 104. Which means higher compression, wether by using a bigger turbo, or high compression engines.

I dont know the VQ , but seeing how i get 300hp with a 1.8L boosted at 1bar, i cant see a VQ not doing that.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:07 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2muchboost View Post
Correct....Supra/Toyota ECU's are a pain to work with. But if your going to go Standalone it may be worth a while to look at the EFI's as an option...just my 2 cents.

Correct #2 .....I agree that the 1200's would only be needed for +500hp goals. 1000's would be more than enough for most but some of us who are looking at bigger power goals should look at 1200's as a starting point.

Great minds think alike
i know that mostly because i owned a 7MGTE supra before, and i know a 500bhp CA18DET running on e85

800 would be enough, but there are no new tech 800ccs. Better use 1000ccs that open as fast as old 600cc !
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:16 PM   #137
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not positive if this answer has been answer'd or not but, does E85 burn faster/slower then 93 octane pump gas? any noticeable difference for anyone?
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:43 AM   #138
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Chemically wise it burns a bit faster. But as there is more fuel, it takes longer to burn.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:56 AM   #139
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I'm about to buy my fuel setup for my gt2871 and just started looking into e85, I'm thinking of switching to it. theres a e85 station a half mile from my house
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:31 AM   #140
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if you run E85, would it still be benificial to run water/meth?
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #141
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we use E85 in almost all our workshops cars and have developed this for the S chassis nissans

basically it allows u to fit 2 fuel pumps inside the standard tank then run twin fuel feed lines to the fuel rail so u can be feeding fuel into each end of the fuel rail



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Old 03-02-2012, 04:01 PM   #142
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^ thats kick ass how much?
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:06 PM   #143
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^^ YEA lol how much
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:30 PM   #144
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I think that is quite overkill for anything under 400-450hp, and it does not solve the surge issue. If you do an external bolt on system with surge tank, i might be interested though. I hate when i cant use a quarter of my tank on tracks because it surges in corners.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:23 PM   #145
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Quote:
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if you run E85, would it still be benificial to run water/meth?
good question, i saw someone saying they were selling there meth kit because they switched to e85, also i believe its stated in this thread e85 doesn't burn as hot as gas
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:05 AM   #146
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^ thats kick ass how much?

Powertune - By Brand - Products
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:09 AM   #147
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I think that is quite overkill for anything under 400-450hp, and it does not solve the surge issue. If you do an external bolt on system with surge tank, i might be interested though. I hate when i cant use a quarter of my tank on tracks because it surges in corners.
we find that on street cars we dont have any surge issues which is what we designed the twin pump for, people who want a big fuel system for the street with out having to put up with a surge tank and external fuel pump

if its a track car then we would recommend a surge tank and external pump setup

we offer this bolt on kit skylines
basically its an under car surge tank and external pump bolt on kit

Last edited by STR8E180; 11-26-2012 at 03:04 AM..
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:47 PM   #148
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guys running with the switch on the ecu. is it as simple as letting your fuel get low, filling up on e85, flipping the switch and your good to go?
i have enthalpy tune
2871r,dw810inj,255fuel pump,nismofpr,tomei poncams,hks ras,z32 maf
any suggestions? steel fuel lines? and obviously sending out my ecu to get re-tuned
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:49 PM   #149
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i run e85 on my evo. i have ID 1000s and make 480awhp. on a dyno pack. on a stock evo 9 turbo, and stock block, just a few bolt ons, walboro 255, and just cams, and a tune...
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #150
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i run e85 on my evo. i have ID 1000s and make 480awhp. on a dyno pack. on a stock evo 9 turbo, and stock block, just a few bolt ons, walboro 255, and just cams, and a tune...
no head gasket or studs.... thats impressive
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