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Old 05-29-2011, 03:47 PM   #61
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I was almost going to post a thread on how much better e85 is better for your engine except the o2 sensors.. but other than that this fuel is better for your engine and less oil changes a year and longer lasting engine... its like the best fuel ever but my issue is i dont have a station near me so i cant use it.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:32 PM   #62
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E85 kills oil. You need MORE frequent oil changes running it.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:46 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostSlideWayz View Post
I was almost going to post a thread on how much better e85 is better for your engine except the o2 sensors.. but other than that this fuel is better for your engine and less oil changes a year and longer lasting engine... its like the best fuel ever but my issue is i dont have a station near me so i cant use it.
I havent noticed this myself as far as the 02 sensors go. It may be true but have been able to get a few years out of mine and its still good. The oil I agree with you though.

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E85 kills oil. You need MORE frequent oil changes running it.
This is completely false. Any blow by you have containing gas stays in your oil.

When its e85, well 85% of it will evaporate off and evacuate through your pcv system thus contaminating your oil much less. You see your oil temps are over the e85s boiling point, and its not going in as a liquid either as it evaporates the moment its sprayed from the injector.

Support your point or I dont buy it.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:48 PM   #64
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When its e85, well 85% of it will evaporate off and evacuate through your pcv system thus contaminating your oil much less. You see your oil temps are over the e85s boiling point, and its not going in as a liquid either as it evaporates the moment its sprayed from the injector.

Support your point or I dont buy it.[/QUOTE]

This brings a new question to me. In another thread people discussed extrude honing and it's benefits but also questioned them. The question of it being too smooth and not getting a proper mix was asked and debated. With gasoline boiling point is 100-400˚F or 250˚C or 121˚C, so the gas would be liquid, but ethanol has a boiling point of 78˚C as mentioned above it would be completely evaporated so would extrude honings benefits be even more exaggerated? Also and I don't know if this is true, so feel free to correct me, but since so much more fuel is put in wouldn't there be more gas for the turbo and thus more power.

Then there is also compression, with ethanol I think stoich ratio is 9:1 and I'm fairly new to this part of the subject with stoich and such, but then gas is 14.6:1 giving ethanol more compression than gas vehicles, but is it better for low or high compression with e85? With high compression our engines could burn the ethanol easily. Although with lower compression the fuel would be less efficient, but have more exhaust gas temperature, in turn spooling the turbo. My question being what is the better trade off?
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:00 PM   #65
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you can get away with more compression with e85, and higher compression will spool quicker.

Also e85 creates more exhaust gasses which helps spool.
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:08 PM   #66
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I'm at almost 10:1 with E85 on my sr/ve - shit loves it... smells like crappy old drunk people tho. As for the oil - if you're running enough power that you need to go over to E85 - you'll be changing your oil every few hundred miles anyways.

on e85 @ 35psi on a billet 6262 - in a regularly driven street car - its enough to scare a man.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:27 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4le View Post


This is completely false. Any blow by you have containing gas stays in your oil.

When its e85, well 85% of it will evaporate off and evacuate through your pcv system thus contaminating your oil much less. You see your oil temps are over the e85s boiling point, and its not going in as a liquid either as it evaporates the moment its sprayed from the injector.

Support your point or I dont buy it.
Ethanol releated bearing failure.

This was one of the first links. Don't have time to find any more info, but it's pretty well documented it washes down bores more readily (since you're injecting 25-30% more than E10).

It tends to break down the viscosity of oil way faster than regular gas.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:04 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Def View Post
Ethanol releated bearing failure.

This was one of the first links. Don't have time to find any more info, but it's pretty well documented it washes down bores more readily (since you're injecting 25-30% more than E10).

It tends to break down the viscosity of oil way faster than regular gas.
That link is actually saying it does not. The OP was looking toward e85 as the culprit, but everyone else didn't have any other problems.

[/QUOTEyou can get away with more compression with e85, and higher compression will spool quicker.[/QUOTE

As for my question, I think I should reword, I was asking which one would be better, I understand the higher and lower compression with e85, but what would be better? The ability to burn fuel efficiently and easily or low compression with high EGT's which in turn would help the turbo and unefficent fuel burning.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:19 PM   #69
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Im saying that high compression would be better. Higher compression will spool up a turbo better.



and yes that link is nothing conclusive. If I google search about alien abductions I will find all kinds of claims there but no real proof. Im inclined to believe that is just hearsay as well.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:29 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4le View Post
Im saying that high compression would be better. Higher compression will spool up a turbo better.



and yes that link is nothing conclusive. If I google search about alien abductions I will find all kinds of claims there but no real proof. Im inclined to believe that is just hearsay as well.
The talk of "ethanol turning oil into a milkshake" is a good indicator it has lost its important lubrication properties.

I've seen lots of talk of E85 vehicles needing oils that are designed to work with ethanol. It definitely combines with any water and forms acetic acid, so maybe it has to do with acid neutralizers.



So far I haven't seen shit from you guys that E85 is no problem at all on oil, so come up with some links if you're going to keep playing the "don't believe it at all game." Put up or shut up.
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:08 AM   #71
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Is anyone running it on a z32 tt?
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:09 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Def View Post
The talk of "ethanol turning oil into a milkshake" is a good indicator it has lost its important lubrication properties.

I've seen lots of talk of E85 vehicles needing oils that are designed to work with ethanol. It definitely combines with any water and forms acetic acid, so maybe it has to do with acid neutralizers.



So far I haven't seen shit from you guys that E85 is no problem at all on oil, so come up with some links if you're going to keep playing the "don't believe it at all game." Put up or shut up.

You bringing this up is the first I have ever heard about it. I have never seen it personally and with the abundance of e85 stations in my area there are allot of cars running it around here.
Now you provided only one link that appeared to be a dumbass asking a question, a few people telling him that wasnt the problem, and then a few people that got confused and think methanol and e85 have anything in common.

You see Im not playing your game. From my personal experiance I have seen no oil contamination, or at least none worse than when using gas. I feel that it contaminates it less.
There is nothing in e85 that would cause a milkshake look to your oil that isnt in gas. Your talking about water and the acid that e85 creates when water gets drawn in......... But I say have a proper fuel tank that works, with a good fuel cap and get your fuel from a quality station.
Who knows what that acid and water will do when it gets in your oil, Im guessing make that milkshake oil stuff. I wouldnt know because I dont have a ghetto fuel system and i dont fill up at the ghetto e85 station.
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:19 PM   #73
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Water is a byproduct of combustion, and that's what most of blowby gasses are. Hence forming acid and needing acid neutralizers in your oil. There's more than a bit of evidence suggesting that this should be carefully looked after in an E85 vehicle such as manufacturers suggesting different oils that can handle it.

I noticed E85 thinned down the viscosity of my oil much sooner than using just gas.


There is information about this on bobistheoilguy, and most of those guys know lots about automotive oils.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:33 PM   #74
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waters a byproduct of gas too.

in all fairness the only oil I have used since going to e85 is rotellla t 5w40 and maybe it has what it takes
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:33 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4le View Post
waters a byproduct of gas too.

in all fairness the only oil I have used since going to e85 is rotellla t 5w40 and maybe it has what it takes

used the same thing in my old Evo on E85 never any issues with it , motor saw 28psi and drove cross country.

got my new pump for my E85 Silvia as well
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:33 AM   #76
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I have been on amsoil for years now, I can't say I know what is the longevity of oil changes on e85 cars simply because my car barely ticks 3k a year.

My fuel setup is:

Fuelab prodigy pump 1000hp w/hobbs switch high activation or manual FP 2 switch High activation

Fuelab FPR 565 series 2 -10 in 1 -10 out
SS -10 send and return lines
Aeromotive 100 micron SS inlet filter and 60 micron outlet Filter
RC 1000cc injectors
Custom -10 Fuel rail
Jaz 16 Gallon Fuel cell, foam filled, 90ohm sending unit
Deleted stock fuel tank, custom trunk frame mounted fuel cell setup.

As for tuning timing what differences have people seen on just general driving? What plug heat range are people running? I have bumped all of my timing for just general drivability by 2 degrees, my plug heat range are currently 8's but I plan to switch back to a triple strap Mazda style 7 heat range plug. I have no idea what my setup makes, I have a FP big 28 and it is huffed out to say the least.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:09 AM   #77
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Initially I was told by Full Race that with my engine set up the optimum injector size would be 750cc. Since I didn't want the injectors to be maxed out upon duty cycle I decided to go with 1000cc injectors. Soooo, if decided to switch over to E85, would my 1000cc's be ample enough?
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:21 AM   #78
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Didn't look to see if this was posted, but: Senate vote marks start of end for ethanol subsidies - Yahoo! News

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Thursday to eliminate billions of dollars in support for the U.S. ethanol industry, sending a strong message that the era of big taxpayer support for biofuels is ending.
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Old 06-30-2011, 05:55 PM   #79
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get that garbage out of here.
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Old 06-30-2011, 05:56 PM   #80
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Initially I was told by Full Race that with my engine set up the optimum injector size would be 750cc. Since I didn't want the injectors to be maxed out upon duty cycle I decided to go with 1000cc injectors. Soooo, if decided to switch over to E85, would my 1000cc's be ample enough?
And yes; 1000cc injectors will flow around 500whp on e85 without being over duty cycled.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:18 PM   #81
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A good rule of thumb is get injectors that would be sized right for gas and run them on e85 with a 4 bar setup (4bar setups work better than 3 bar with e85 anyways as long as your pump setup is good for your demands). This also allows you to start out with your fuel map as you would if it were on gas and make minor global changes to get it right.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:40 AM   #82
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A good rule of thumb is get injectors that would be sized right for gas and run them on e85 with a 4 bar setup (4bar setups work better than 3 bar with e85 anyways as long as your pump setup is good for your demands). This also allows you to start out with your fuel map as you would if it were on gas and make minor global changes to get it right.
I understand what you are saying here, but wouldnt this decrease the lifespan of the injector due to being under greater pintle pressure constantly. Also the fuel system is at a great load constantly. I personally prefer running the larger injectors, and adjusting the global fuel table by the ratio of old injector to new. For instance, you go to 1000's from 740's all you have to do is multiply your global table by .74 and you should be in the ballpark and then minor adjustments. There isn't increased stress on your fuel system, and you gave yourself the duty cycle/longevity that running stock pressure will maintain. Especially if you plan to run a fair amount of boost. Starting at 60 and then running 25lbs of boost will put you at 85psi fuel pressure. That is moving into a territory where a lot of pumps get very weak and could starve your system up top.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:45 AM   #83
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And yes; 1000cc injectors will flow around 500whp on e85 without being over duty cycled.
Thanks! Now I'm curious about how much more power my car will make on E85 vs 93 octane pump gas. GT3071R is rated to 480 iirc, but my Z32 maf is 450-500 from what I've read.

Eh, hell with it, I haven't even cranked it up for the first time yet.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:30 AM   #84
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I understand what you are saying here, but wouldnt this decrease the lifespan of the injector due to being under greater pintle pressure constantly. Also the fuel system is at a great load constantly. I personally prefer running the larger injectors, and adjusting the global fuel table by the ratio of old injector to new. For instance, you go to 1000's from 740's all you have to do is multiply your global table by .74 and you should be in the ballpark and then minor adjustments. There isn't increased stress on your fuel system, and you gave yourself the duty cycle/longevity that running stock pressure will maintain. Especially if you plan to run a fair amount of boost. Starting at 60 and then running 25lbs of boost will put you at 85psi fuel pressure. That is moving into a territory where a lot of pumps get very weak and could starve your system up top.
Well, just make sure you dont have detchworks and you have a good brand of injectors and pumps, msd and bosch come to mind. E85 will work better on a 4bar setup ans should be ran on a 4bar setup.

Making 400whp stresses out our 4cyl engines too so i dont like that argument, besides you should see what drifting does to my tires!

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Old 07-01-2011, 10:30 AM   #85
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I just finished my new setup with E85 and wow this is the shit !!!!!! The engine run so much better. No more heat problem, barely no carbon emission and smell great hahaha. The sr20det now run [email protected] & [email protected] (mustang dyno).

The setup is:

1000cc ID
A1000 Pump
Gt3071r @22lbs
Tomei Cam (260in 270ex)
Aem Ems4
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:08 AM   #86
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Thanks! Now I'm curious about how much more power my car will make on E85 vs 93 octane pump gas. GT3071R is rated to 480 iirc, but my Z32 maf is 450-500 from what I've read.

Eh, hell with it, I haven't even cranked it up for the first time yet.
It's the timing and slight leaner condition you can run that is the real benefit of e85. Maf shouldn't make the difference. Can you control your timing? What are you tuning with
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:17 AM   #87
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:24 AM   #88
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This is my comparison of 100 octane vs E85


There is some benefit for NA engines, especially if you are high compression. But, it makes a huge difference for FI engines.

Engine is an Autech S15 SR20DE
11.7:1 CR
444CC OEM S14 SR20DET (Originally 280CC)
Walbro 255
300ZX Fuel Filter
Tomei S-Type FPR

I've been using E85 on this engine for well over a year. The first year was track use only. For the last six months, I've probably put 5000 miles on the engine for regular driving.

No, you do not require more frequent oil changes. I drove 4000 miles (using Motul 300V 5W-30 oil), and the oil looked and felt like any other time I changed the oil. If you're oil is getting broken down by E85, you're piston rings must be letting too much E85 through and/or your crankcase ventilation sucks. Somehow condensing E85 in the crankcase and getting stuck in the oil? Not possible. E85 (like gasoline) has a natural tendency to evaporate at atmospheric pressure. So, E85 would have to be leaking through to the oil.

The only down side to using E85 (to me anyway) is that you don't get any of the additives that promote lubrication in the combustion chamber. So engine wear is going to be a bit higher.

There is a limit to how much compression you can do. I can still manage to get a high knock count on the track with E85. (Side note... I'd assume you'd HAVE TO use race fuel to use the Tomei 2.2L 13.1:1 Stroker Kit). With 91, I was knocking at idle. I'm not going to pay $8.50+/gal of 100 octane... So, if you're turbocharged and want to increase your compression ratio because you're using E85, I wouldn't recommend going any higher than 9.5:1. Maybe 10:1 if you think you're engine is bullet proof.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:34 PM   #89
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Nice numbers NA. High compression would benefit from the higher octane rating of e85, but the real difference between FI and NA benefit of e85 is in boosted application from reduction of mixture temperatures entering the cylinder. This also helps the knock on boosted applications. I always love seeing tunes of taking the timing past mbt and then backing it off a few degrees and not worrying about knock. (all on the dyno)

I personally would love a 9.5 compression boosted application. I'll never forget my buddies 11:1 b18 w/3076, it had power everywhere and would easily do 60+mph burnouts w/quaife LSD and 225's

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Originally Posted by xpertsnowcarver View Post
This is my comparison of 100 octane vs E85


There is some benefit for NA engines, especially if you are high compression. But, it makes a huge difference for FI engines.

Engine is an Autech S15 SR20DE
11.7:1 CR
444CC OEM S14 SR20DET (Originally 280CC)
Walbro 255
300ZX Fuel Filter
Tomei S-Type FPR

I've been using E85 on this engine for well over a year. The first year was track use only. For the last six months, I've probably put 5000 miles on the engine for regular driving.

No, you do not require more frequent oil changes. I drove 4000 miles (using Motul 300V 5W-30 oil), and the oil looked and felt like any other time I changed the oil. If you're oil is getting broken down by E85, you're piston rings must be letting too much E85 through and/or your crankcase ventilation sucks. Somehow condensing E85 in the crankcase and getting stuck in the oil? Not possible. E85 (like gasoline) has a natural tendency to evaporate at atmospheric pressure. So, E85 would have to be leaking through to the oil.

The only down side to using E85 (to me anyway) is that you don't get any of the additives that promote lubrication in the combustion chamber. So engine wear is going to be a bit higher.

There is a limit to how much compression you can do. I can still manage to get a high knock count on the track with E85. (Side note... I'd assume you'd HAVE TO use race fuel to use the Tomei 2.2L 13.1:1 Stroker Kit). With 91, I was knocking at idle. I'm not going to pay $8.50+/gal of 100 octane... So, if you're turbocharged and want to increase your compression ratio because you're using E85, I wouldn't recommend going any higher than 9.5:1. Maybe 10:1 if you think you're engine is bullet proof.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:40 AM   #90
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On a evo we changed over a few weeks ago - we picked up 15hp switching over to E85 on 2 less psi of boost- BUT


It picked up over 65TQ. things at 404Tq at like 4000rpms... Another IX we picked up like 40hp and 45tq without increasing boost.

Oil should be changed more frequently - but if you arent driving a racecar that milkshakes the oil (this shouldnt happen on a street car) - its not that noticeable and 2500-3000 miles shouldnt be too bad on hte oil.

neither of those cars ever have odd looking or smelling oil - neither does my own car. All run 1600cc injectors.
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