Rennsport: The German Car thread

[HyperTek]

E30 M3s, 190e 2.5 16v EVO IIs and R32 GTRs duking it out on Macau =)

[simmode1]

Hey guys, need your help. So, my brother has gotten his hands on an E34 M5 and has no idea what to do with it. Keeps telling me cockamamie ideas like gutting it or turboing it when he has very little mechanical knowledge about the car. How good are these cars? What would you recommend for an E34 M5 project?

[e30gangsta]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Hey guys, need your help. So, my brother has gotten his hands on an E34 M5 and has no idea what to do with it. Keeps telling me cockamamie ideas like gutting it or turboing it when he has very little mechanical knowledge about the car. How good are these cars? What would you recommend for an E34 M5 project?

Your kidding me right? First things first that motor is very expensive to maintian/own. Its probably one of the sickest inline 6's ever. s38's can be stroked to 3.8, us versions are 3.6 liters and the motors already come equipped with itbs.

If he plans to boost it he can make a shitload of power with really good driveability, but then he will have to upgrade, trans, diff, axles etc. I suggest he restores it and tastefully mods it. Please dont ruin another e34 m5.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Hey guys, need your help. So, my brother has gotten his hands on an E34 M5 and has no idea what to do with it. Keeps telling me cockamamie ideas like gutting it or turboing it when he has very little mechanical knowledge about the car. How good are these cars? What would you recommend for an E34 M5 project?

Sell it to me, buy a E36 328 and destroy that.

In 5-10 years you can expect the E34 M5s and E36 M3s to command stupid money not unlike the E30 M3.

These cars will never be cheaper then they are today.

[simmode1]

Yeah, he's clueless and he's got some mechanic pawing at it. He's already done some servicing to the head that I don't know specifics about. They're dying to mod it but they have no vision. I'm trying to help him avoid ending up in some BMW "Doing It Wrong" thread. I suggested he just put it on bags and wheels and leave it alone.

[AFSil80]

Originally Posted by simmode1

I'm trying to help him avoid ending up in some BMW "Doing It Wrong" thread. I suggested he just put it on bags and wheels and leave it alone.

Contradicting yourself there, man.

I like the E30gangsta's idea of mild suspension work and keep it tasteful.

[simmode1]

^^^Are you implying that airbag suspension is "Doing It Wrong"? Why would you feel that is worse than mild suspension work? It gives you the flexibilty to be mild or extreme when you want...

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Are you implying that airbag suspension is "Doing It Wrong"? Why would you feel that is worse than mild suspension work? It gives you the flexibilty to be mild or extreme when you want...

I'm sure he is imply Bilstine/Koni shocks, H&R springs and all refreshed soft parts = mild suspension.

These cars handled great when new. Aggressive and firm for Hooligan driving but compliant enough to daily in comfort.

Same for performance. Accentuate the cars positive features. The luxury sport interior, the wail of the high-revving straight six and that rush of power and noise from the N/A ITB engine.

If he just wants a junkyard spec stripped Bimmers "race car" sell it, make a profit, and start with a sickly 525is. Gut and LS swap that shit.

[Corbic]

[IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/sP2DtAjwhSOsjM8HNz6L9AG8zyDXkLTBCxvp3qt3*GI8vpnvIo CHLqsdfr192nwlbh0RY2r1ugkKuuXs2s9TzukpKNIaxkJs/DSC021691.JPG[/IMG]

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I'm sure he is imply Bilstine/Koni shocks, H&R springs and all refreshed soft parts = mild suspension.

These cars handled great when new. Aggressive and firm for Hooligan driving but compliant enough to daily in comfort.

Same for performance. Accentuate the cars positive features. The luxury sport interior, the wail of the high-revving straight six and that rush of power and noise from the N/A ITB engine.

If he just wants a junkyard spec stripped Bimmers "race car" sell it, make a profit, and start with a sickly 525is. Gut and LS swap that shit.

Gotcha. I think we're gonna stick with the versatility provided by airbags with some legit wheels for this one. But yeah, I just recommended he improve upon the inherent N/A characteristics: Headers, open up that exhaust, possibly delete the cat & maybe change the final drive ratio while swapping to a grabbier clutch/lighter flywheel. Do you guys think there is any value in switching to the available 6spd trans for the E34 M5?

[1gr8bar10der]

Definitely a cool thread and already subscribed.

I always have a soft spot for MB W124, especially in the station wagon body (they also came in sedan and coupe configurations). Since my high school day, seeing my friend's dad driving one really hooked me. They're now very cheap and can be obtained for as low as $2.5K for a clean, unmolested, well-maintained one, or at least that's from the local CL's down here.









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[AFSil80]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I'm sure he is imply Bilstine/Koni shocks, H&R springs and all refreshed soft parts = mild suspension.

These cars handled great when new. Aggressive and firm for Hooligan driving but compliant enough to daily in comfort.

Same for performance. Accentuate the cars positive features. The luxury sport interior, the wail of the high-revving straight six and that rush of power and noise from the N/A ITB engine.

If he just wants a junkyard spec stripped Bimmers "race car" sell it, make a profit, and start with a sickly 525is. Gut and LS swap that shit.

Took the words right outta my mouth. That to me is the cool thing about these cars...they're already stellar performers, and it's possible to add your personal touches and preferences without going overboard...or more importantly, dropping an insane amount of money on a car that didn't cost a whole lot to begin with.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Any idea on how the 986 responds to forced induction? Dat bish needs moar powa!

Nope, an I don't care.

Here is the skinny on the Rockstar.

The 986 had 3 engines. 2.5l (207hp) from 1997-1999, a 2.7l (217hp) 2000-2004 and the 3.2l (254hp) found in the Boxster S from 2000-2004.

You really can't tell the difference in the 2.5L and 2.7L. The S also has upgraded brakes, a 6spd manual which is much stronger and nicer, and a third radiator.

The engines have the IMS failure issue which I covered before. Essentially a $1,000 prevention that stops your engine from randomly grenade. Engine replacements are very expensive. They use Alusil construction and cylinders. Some engines have had cylinders crack.

I know guys with 987's, the newer generation, have had some success making big turbo numbers. It's a PITA however. Just think, where the hell you gonna put that IC?

[Corbic]

Now if you want a power-boxster, I recommend engine swapping. Plenty of neglected 986's out there, some in need of new engines. The value of these cars is solely based on the condition of the engines.

Precision Chassis Works has done a few EJ25 swaps.
http://www.precisionchassisworks.com...onversion.html

He is expensive, I think he said he can swap a car for a customer for ~$20k. I personally hate the EJ25.



http://986forum.com/forums/general-d...-interest.html

[/URL]

Now the much better plan is his latest efforts...



Thats right, 4.2 baby!

Boxster's two transmission are the Audi/VW 012 FWD 5spd Transaxle and the 01E 6spd Tranaxle. These units share the same bell housing pattern as all the Longitudinal VW/Audi engines. The 2.7TT, 1.8T, 2.8 V6, 4.2 V8 etc.

Another example:



The 4.2 came in several forms. Most common will be the vanilla A6 and A8 engines. They all make around 300hp. Newer engines and specialty engines (RS6/RS8) make more power but cost considerably more. A 32v 295hp 4.2 is ~$500.

So you'll save some coin by skipping the adapter plate / clutch+flywheel issues. You'll get a cheap powerful engine and my god the noises it makes...




So my plan at this time is sell my running 2.5l for $2,500 - $3,000. Buy a 4.2l for $500, clean it up for another $500, megasquirt, long tubes... oh yeah... poor mans R8

[simmode1]

^^^Learning new stuff everyday...

Originally Posted by AFSil80

Took the words right outta my mouth. That to me is the cool thing about these cars...they're already stellar performers, and it's possible to add your personal touches and preferences without going overboard...or more importantly, dropping an insane amount of money on a car that didn't cost a whole lot to begin with.

Ahhh, I see...

[DreamN]

Corbic, you bought a Boxster? I thought you picked up a 964?

[AFSil80]

I've never even had the desire to own a Boxster or Cayman...

Until Corbic's last post.

[DreamN]

Really, nothing for the Cayman? I love the Cayman especially in S form. Cayman S Tiptronic was actually the first Porsche I had ever driven and even with the automatic trans I thought the car was damn near perfect.

[AFSil80]

Don't get me wrong, I love the style of the car. But, I'm guilty of being one of those people that feels if you're gonna buy a Porsche, you buy a 911. A bit close-minded, I know. But the heritage is just hard to ignore.

[e1_griego]

I drove a Cayman S last year, 2008 vintage iirc, and I *loved* it.

I <3 Porsches but I'll probably never buy one, at least not any time soon. I also did a porsche factory tour in Stuttgart this summer and it was incredible. I'm sold, if only my bank account would cooperate.

[Flicktitty]

does someone offer a mount kit for the 4.2L v8 for the boxster?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by DreamN

Corbic, you bought a Boxster? I thought you picked up a 964?

I own a 1998 986 Boxster 2.5L and a 1985 911 Carrera 3.2L

[IMG][/IMG]



I still have my 240sx and '05 Tacoma.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Flicktitty

does someone offer a mount kit for the 4.2L v8 for the boxster?

This guy has "kinda" done it.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...-boxster-swap/

Originally Posted by quan717

Using Both Boxster Transmission mount, Both A8 Engine mount and using the
boxster front engine mount, totaling 5 mounts.

Wiring is the tricky part as the Porsche DME is very intrusive. It also has a god damn immobilizer wired in. I'm thinking I will need to keep the DME and MS3.



I think his downfall was that he tried using the Triptronic trans (Garbage) and was not that great at wiring/fabbing. (notice the two shifters because he couldn't get it to work).

I contacted Precision Chassis Works and they have no plans of offering a kit.





You can see how he fabled up a subframe. Doesn't look to complicated. My friends is doing some excellent work with the tig these days and he'd be the one fabricating this.

If we move forward I would document it and I'm sure he'd be interested in selling something if it's easy to replicate. The problem with projects like this is that people aren't always willing to pay for your time. (If he needs $200 in material and 15 hours to fab, would someone really pay $2k for it?)

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AFSil80

Don't get me wrong, I love the style of the car. But, I'm guilty of being one of those people that feels if you're gonna buy a Porsche, you buy a 911. A bit close-minded, I know. But the heritage is just hard to ignore.

Hey, Boxster is 80% 911! The 986 is all 911 from the Dash forward. Many of the parts in the rear are also 996 (stamped part numbers). Really, all Porsche did was flip the engine and trans, take away the back seat and give you a trunk.

With the release of the very large 991 and the AMAZING 981 twins, the Cayman is now being hailed as the new "911" and a "True drivers cars". I'm telling you. I HATED the Boxster when it came out. I was barely excepting the 993 back then and all of a sudden this fried egg water-cooled hair-dressing poor mans Porsche came out... it was the new 914 too me.

Then I drove one last year and was They are stupid fun to pound on. The interior, while "odd" at first is top notch quality and the noise..... on the noise. Then you get all the girls at the fast-food drive-thrus going "oh em gee, I love your car" and suddenly... its no longer that ugly.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...n-the-911.html

With the demographic changes, air-cooled cars becoming unobtainable, and the world now accepting water-cooled Porsches - Boxsters have managed to shed their negative image.

[Corbic]

Out with the Fugly!

These are some eBay headlights, $1,000. Owner has a lot of work into the car, including the vintage styled carbon-fiber hood, wheels, bumpers etc.





Clear Headlights, 997 GT3 styled bumper and side skirts.



Another,


996 GT3 bumper, sides and seats even.


996.2 Headlights and Turbo Bumper


another,


Aftermarket GTR bumper


Wide Body


OMG... 997 GT3 Front and what looks like wider rears on a 986...




$2,800+ lights + paint

[AFSil80]

Yeah, the last 2 years have been unreal for air cooled cars in terms of pricing.

As for the Boxster/Cayman, I've heard from quite a few well-informed sources that those cars were specifically handicapped by Porsche to prevent them from out-doing the 911. As I'm sure you're aware, the biggest issue that the 911 has always faced in development is also it's most renown trademark...the rear mounted engine. And from what I've gathered, a lot of aftermarket companies are having GREAT success with the Boxster/Cayman after re-doing the suspension.

[Corbic]

Headlights are stupid expensive. The updated halogen clears go for ~$600 used. HID's are nearly $2k.

Luckily there is a poverty spec solution for those with the fried-egg lights.
http://986forum.com/forums/general-d...e-ambered.html

Using a routing tool set to 1mm you can grind away the orange amber. You'll then need to sand, cut and polish the plastic.







You then just replace the corner reflectors with clear ones, carbon fiber, smoked etc.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AFSil80

Yeah, the last 2 years have been unreal for air cooled cars in terms of pricing.

As for the Boxster/Cayman, I've heard from quite a few well-informed sources that those cars were specifically handicapped by Porsche to prevent them from out-doing the 911. As I'm sure you're aware, the biggest issue that the 911 has always faced in development is also it's most renown trademark...the rear mounted engine. And from what I've gathered, a lot of aftermarket companies are having GREAT success with the Boxster/Cayman after re-doing the suspension.

This is true. The suspension is fine on the Box/Man, but its the engines that handicap them.

With the 986/996 Generation you had the 2.7 200hp Boxster and the 3.2 250hp Boxster S. The Base 911 received the larger, more powerful 300hp 3.4l engine and later a 3.6 with 320hp.

Even today, a base Cayman is 275hp while a 911 is 350hp, the Cayman S is 325hp to the 911S's 400hp. The Cayman GTS is 340 to the 911 GTS's 430hp.

Porsche makes sure that they don't step on each others toes.

[Matej]

That is actually not an outrageous price for headlights, if anything it is cheap for a Porsche.

If you want the Boxter just for the nameplate sake of owning a (poor woman's) Porsche, that is understandable.

However, you can buy a mid-engined car that looks the same, is 1000lbs lighter, costs less to purchase and maintain, has near-perfect handling from the factory, and is easier and cheaper to mod/swap:



My favourite. <3

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Matej

That is actually not an outrageous price for headlights, if anything it is cheap for a Porsche.

If you want the Boxter just for the nameplate sake of owning a <poor woman's> Porsche, that is understandable.

However, you can buy a mid-engined car that looks the same, is 1000lbs lighter, costs less to purchase and maintain, has near-perfect handling from the factory, and is easier and cheaper to mod/swap:

...yeah, no. Go start a "shit-box" thread if you want to talk about the MRS.

I have driven them. There is no comparison. It's like saying "why buy a S4 when you can get a WRX".

The MRS is also 10x more ugly. It's like some god awful Chinese knock-off.