Road Race setup/ Track pics

[smellslikecurry]

Originally Posted by gills

How bout a little bump with different color shoes from my last race at Watkins Glen:

Curious what times you're running at glen. Would love to bump into you up there one day.

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by spooled240

If they are it's probably only a few ounces lol I'm sure your rotors are much lighter than mine, but I prefer to have cheap rotors that I can source virtually anywhere.

Z32 Rear Caliper Weight is 5.995 lbs vs. 4.3lbs of the ST... I dunno 1.7lbs per side and unsprung weight at the rim....

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Z32 Rear Caliper Weight is 5.995 lbs vs. 4.3lbs of the ST... I dunno 1.7lbs per side and unsprung weight at the rim....

Those aren't z32 calipers.. I thought your were talking about these:

[BlackZenkiS14]

yea, the one in the photo is an OEM s13/s14 rear caliper.

[Dolph_KYAS13]

I have been working on a bracket set to use 350Z brembo calipers. Its pretty common knowledge that the fronts bolt up by drilling out the mounting holes. The rears require a bracket to work. These are designed to use a readily available (much larger) 370Z rotor. The brackets are machined from 6061-T6 aluminum and bolt on to the rear knuckle without modification.

This is what i've come up with so far. we just moved cities so once im set up here ill give an update with how they fit.









-Jordie

[BlackZenkiS14]

Does that 370 rotor also retain the factory Z32 internal drum ebrake? If so, I'd love to figure out a Wilwood caliper that could use the 370Z rear rotor and mount via a similar bracket. So you could have cheap consumeables from the Wilwood caliper and 370Z rotors, but also have a proper functioning internal drum ebrake.

[Dolph_KYAS13]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Does that 370 rotor also retain the factory Z32 internal drum ebrake? If so, I'd love to figure out a Wilwood caliper that could use the 370Z rear rotor and mount via a similar bracket. So you could have cheap consumeables from the Wilwood caliper and 370Z rotors, but also have a proper functioning internal drum ebrake.

Yeap, it uses the same EBrake as the z32/R Chassis cars.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by Dolph_KYAS13

Yeap, it uses the same EBrake as the z32/R Chassis cars.

Well that's awesome. So really, all that needs to happen, is figure out what Wilwood caliper would work with the Z33 rotor and make a bracket to adapt it, right?

C4 boys, get on it! lol

[slider2828]

I know they are s14. Hence its .1 lighter tha. The z32. Z32 is 5.995 from 350z forum someone wrote

[slider2828]

Problem with rear brackets is if you run any afyermarket knuckle it womt fit

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Dolph_KYAS13

I have been working on a bracket set to use 350Z brembo calipers. Its pretty common knowledge that the fronts bolt up by drilling out the mounting holes. The rears require a bracket to work. These are designed to use a readily available (much larger) 370Z rotor. The brackets are machined from 6061-T6 aluminum and bolt on to the rear knuckle without modification.

This is what i've come up with so far. we just moved cities so once im set up here ill give an update with how they fit.

-Jordie

This is very cool. Do you have any pics of the pad alignment on the rotors?

[BlackZenkiS14]

Ok, another question concerning gear ratios. I have a 1JZ with R154 trans, and 4.08 gear set with a Cusco diff. I feel like this setup is too short, and think I'd be better off with a taller rear drive gear. Something like 3.6 maybe?

What do you guys think? And where do you guys source your rear gears from? What junkyard cars can I rob a gear set out of?

[gills]

Originally Posted by smellslikecurry

Curious what times you're running at glen. Would love to bump into you up there one day.

Hey man! I would be thrilled to run into another S-chassis at The Glen. There are very few and far between at track days on the east coast.

My fastest lap there was a 2:08.56 with the VQ35DE and 200tw tires (Falken RT615K+).




As for the rear brake upgrades, all good stuff!

So the current rear BBK I offer is actually a second version. My design goal for both versions was to use a larger caliper and rotor inside a 17" wheel, which is really the tricky part due to the constraints of the back. The first version didn't use a parking brake at all. As for my rear kit not working well for occasional e-brake rips, prove it The drum itself is aluminum which obviously isn't ideal for that application, but I specified a thicker than normal hard coat anodize. I'd love for people to put it through the ringer. For holding the car for parking, it works perfectly.

As for the Z33 rear with Wilwood calipers, it's actually been on the development plan for sometime. Not clear yet that it'll work without chopping up the upright. The idea of having Z33 option on the rear to match our Z33 front option for a more budget minded upgrade is certainly enticing, so I get it.



But, yea, using a larger diameter rotor from the Z34 or equivalent really opens up the useable space in the back a bunch. It's something I decided not to pursue because of the wheel diameter restriction.

[blankblank]

Originally Posted by gills

As for the Z33 rear with Wilwood calipers, it's actually been on the development plan for sometime. Not clear yet that it'll work without chopping up the upright. The idea of having Z33 option on the rear to match our Z33 front option for a more budget minded upgrade is certainly enticing, so I get it.

This would be beautiful. Is there any planned release date for this?

[gills]

Originally Posted by blankblank

This would be beautiful. Is there any planned release date for this?

There currently isn't a date at the moment, but I was hoping to have something by late spring, possibly sooner.

[BlackZenkiS14]

That'd be awesome. I can totally justify the 2pc setup for the front, which I plan on purchasing this spring after ironing some other stuff out with the car. But the rear still sees some pretty hard ebrake drags at 80+mph haha, and just cant justify the 2pc rotor upgrade for the rear. But it would be sweet to have that same caliper that uses the same pads and the increased surface contact! But again, I am also on 17" wheels, and dont plan on changing.

You guys are making rad stuff, and can't wait to start getting car built stronger!

[gills]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

That'd be awesome. I can totally justify the 2pc setup for the front, which I plan on purchasing this spring after ironing some other stuff out with the car. But the rear still sees some pretty hard ebrake drags at 80+mph haha, and just cant justify the 2pc rotor upgrade for the rear. But it would be sweet to have that same caliper that uses the same pads and the increased surface contact! But again, I am also on 17" wheels, and dont plan on changing.

You guys are making rad stuff, and can't wait to start getting car built stronger!

Thank you! Yea, 17" wheel use was a must for my kits since I use the same kits for endurance racing and didn't want the increased expense of 18" tires (Need at a minimum two sets of tires per event weekend).

As for the current kit, I could make some revisions to it that would make it more suitable for 80mph rips, or just make the drum completely out of steel. It just adds cost (and weight) and I'd need to juggle that with what the community wants to pay. If enough people want it, I'd make it.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by gills

Thank you! Yea, 17" wheel use was a must for my kits since I use the same kits for endurance racing and didn't want the increased expense of 18" tires (Need at a minimum two sets of tires per event weekend).

As for the current kit, I could make some revisions to it that would make it more suitable for 80mph rips, or just make the drum completely out of steel. It just adds cost (and weight) and I'd need to juggle that with what the community wants to pay. If enough people want it, I'd make it.

Seems like it'd be more cost effective to design a bracket around an OEM rotor though, right?

I'm probably not looking at rear brakes this season, my R33s will have to cut it for now. The C4 Front kit with 2pc is gonna eat up the rest of my winter build money for the car. Hoping to pull the trigger on the fronts within the next 4 weeks or so, depending on when that W2 shows up haha

If only running the fronts, whats the best setup for master/booster? Lots of street use, + track days.

[slider2828]

I use a Z31 15/16..... A bit softer than the 1" but I want to see what else others are running.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I use a Z31 15/16..... A bit softer than the 1" but I want to see what else others are running.

What brakes are you on?

[gills]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Seems like it'd be more cost effective to design a bracket around an OEM rotor though, right?

I'm probably not looking at rear brakes this season, my R33s will have to cut it for now. The C4 Front kit with 2pc is gonna eat up the rest of my winter build money for the car. Hoping to pull the trigger on the fronts within the next 4 weeks or so, depending on when that W2 shows up haha

If only running the fronts, whats the best setup for master/booster? Lots of street use, + track days.

More cost effective and simple for the end user, for sure. Still a good deal heavier and not as good as a rotor casting as the 2-piece setup. Regardless, I will refocus some effort on the Z33-wilwood caliper combo.


We've run all three MC sizes on our endurance race car and we all liked the feel of the 17/16" the best. Next in line was the 1" MC and then the 15/16" felt too mushy.

The biggest issue with Nissan chassis/brake systems when starting to run race compounds is sensitivity and modulation. This is why I also suggest the B13 Sentra booster which bolts right on and is smaller than the single diaphragm S13 unit and helps with this.


What isn't obvious is that all 3 of the MC's have different internal rear pressure split points/proportioning. The 17/16" MC has the highest split point at 498psi, and the 1" MC the lowest at 353psi.

The interesting thing here is that, at least on the best/grippiest 200tw tires, hitting 500psi brake system pressure is basically at/near the max of braking (based on datalogging) on track/during races. That means with a 17/16" MC, you'll essentially never proportion the rear brake pressure leading up to threshold braking. It is best to use an external proportioning valve on the 17/16" MC if you're not running real functional aero and slicks.

With a 1" MC, the split point is at a range that seems more useable for most people.

[spooled240]

With the Evo 8 fronts and STi rears my 1" Frontier BMC with manual booster feels mushy with more pedal travel than I'd like. My Evo 9 came with a 17/16" BMC and the pedal feels great so I'm planning on upgrading the s14 to a 17/16".

Don't you guys go through rotors quickly on the aggressive compounds? The Z33 rotor and Wilwood caliper combo would seem to be the best and cost effective solution. Centric rear rotors are $28 each on RockAuto. Lighter suspension components and knuckles could offset the additional weight.

[gills]

Originally Posted by spooled240

With the Evo 8 fronts and STi rears my 1" Frontier BMC with manual booster feels mushy with more pedal travel than I'd like. My Evo 9 came with a 17/16" BMC and the pedal feels great so I'm planning on upgrading the s14 to a 17/16".

Don't you guys go through rotors quickly on the aggressive compounds? The Z33 rotor and Wilwood caliper combo would seem to be the best and cost effective solution. Centric rear rotors are $28 each on RockAuto. Lighter suspension components and knuckles could offset the additional weight.

Don't discount that the EVO is a newer chassis and likely has more rigid/stiffer everything, which is directly correlated with pedal feel. Every bit of system deflection is wasted pedal travel.

But, yea, most of the newer cars with bigger brakes use a 17/16" MC. What we ended up liking the best as well. 17/16" Z32 MC's were used only up to 1991 IIRC. Every year after that was the 1".


Race compounds are all different. Race compounds worth a damn are very rotor friendly. Rotors will get timed out from heat/stress cracking than from thickness thresholds. One set of our front rotors lasts about 2 endurance race weekends. That's approximately 40 hours racing/track use. The rears go even more. The castings are higher quality.

It'll be difficult to match/offset the weight loss through suspension components. The front 2-piece is more than 6lbs lighter than the Z33 one piece. The rear is similar. Don't recall exactly what it is. I'll get check in a bit.

[slider2828]

When I was running 15/16" feels mushy because there is more pedal travel which I like. Modulation for me is easier if there is more travel. When I was on 15/16 it is Z32 30MM Iron up fronts and Z32 rears on Carbotech XP12's in the front and XP10's in the rear with brembo blanks all around..

Also FYI the R32 GTR Nismo BMCs are also 15/16 wtih a 498 split point.
https://tfaspeed.com/products/nissan...bs-46010-02u20

Z31 Turbo MC is the same as that GTR BMC spec. Not sure about internals.

My new setup I bought from gills(Core4) front 6 piston Wilwood with Sti Rear with S14 thin booster and same BMC. Hopefully it will feel the same

[blankblank]

Originally Posted by gills

But, yea, most of the newer cars with bigger brakes use a 17/16" MC. What we ended up liking the best as well. 17/16" Z32 MC's were used only up to 1991 IIRC. Every year after that was the 1".


It'll be difficult to match/offset the weight loss through suspension components. The front 2-piece is more than 6lbs lighter than the Z33 one piece. The rear is similar. Don't recall exactly what it is. I'll get check in a bit.

Anyone looking for the 17/16" master "HFM" makes one. They seem to be popular in Australia, can't comment on quality as I have not installed/used mine yet. Wish I could have gotten an OEM one but they have been discontinued for a while now.

I think the 2-piece setup is amazing value and the weight savings are huge. For me at least, the price difference isn't justifiable as I'm just not at a level to justify it all. TBH, even the calipers are overkill but long term cost savings and options on the consumables and not having 20 year old components is why I'm waiting.

Still find it amazing how these chassis still have the support and parts available to this day

[rv_zenki]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

Ok, another question concerning gear ratios. I have a 1JZ with R154 trans, and 4.08 gear set with a Cusco diff. I feel like this setup is too short, and think I'd be better off with a taller rear drive gear. Something like 3.6 maybe?

What do you guys think? And where do you guys source your rear gears from? What junkyard cars can I rob a gear set out of?

Sorry to be off topic but how do you like the 1j up front for track usage? how does the handling feel? Did you have a KA or SR in it before to compare? Also,
does it stay cool?

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by rv_zenki

Sorry to be off topic but how do you like the 1j up front for track usage? how does the handling feel? Did you have a KA or SR in it before to compare? Also,
does it stay cool?

So coming from a 420whp SR to a 450whp 1JZ, you can tell a difference. You dont notice the weight as much as you would think, though there is certainly a difference. I'm not sure if I'm a good enough driver to notice it being a bad thing.

The torque down low and torque up top is much better which pulls out of corners better.

It does stay cool, but it was a very conscious effort to build the cooling system efficiently enough to keep it cool and be mindful of under hood temps. I'm really happy with how it all turned out honestly.

[mewantkouki]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

So coming from a 420whp SR to a 450whp 1JZ, you can tell a difference. You dont notice the weight as much as you would think, though there is certainly a difference. I'm not sure if I'm a good enough driver to notice it being a bad thing.

The torque down low and torque up top is much better which pulls out of corners better.

It does stay cool, but it was a very conscious effort to build the cooling system efficiently enough to keep it cool and be mindful of under hood temps. I'm really happy with how it all turned out honestly.

More info on the cooling system please? What fans are you running or are you using a clutch fan?

[BlackZenkiS14]

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

More info on the cooling system please? What fans are you running or are you using a clutch fan?

Probably not much compared to the real racecar guys in here, but this was the effort I made specifically to manage the temps of a 1JZ in a 240SX with a front mounted rad. Street car setup. Had to handle sitting in traffic, and hot lapping at the track.

Coolant System
Koyo Dual Pass SR20 Rad
Swirl Pot/Bleed Tank
Spal 3200 CFM Fan set (40A x2 solenoids required, Literally pulled out of a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte) 30102130 is the closest comparable part number
Toyota Pink OEM Factory Coolant + Water Wetter
155* Thermostat
Nismo Rad Cap

Aero
TrackSpec Hood Vent
Front Splitter
Fully ducted air flow system (Rad -> FMIC -> air Inlet)

Underhood
Turbo Blanket
Full thermal wrap on 4" downpipe
Ceramic Coated Exh Manifold
Thermal Spacer intake gaskets
Meth/Water injection

[BlackZenkiS14]

Alright, budget minded tires? 200 Tread Wear

Looking for something streetable but will handle track well. Currently on NT05's now, happy with traction, but I've been chasing a front end shimmy that I cant sort out, and all I can figure on is the tires at this point.

Falken RT615K+ vs RT660? Any other options you guys like at same price point?