Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Junkie
1) "Linear and progressive spring rates are what you are looking for" is completely irrelevant to my original post because:
Calling linear rate springs "progressive" as an attempt to describe spring rate delineation (undesirable) from the advertised spring rate is a misuse of the word in the context of this discussion. Especially when "progressive springs" are actually a thing. It seems like tacotacotaco also misunderstood your comment as he posted examples of actual linear rate springs and progressive springs.
In other words, I know exactly what progressive springs are but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do as well. Despite your misuse of the word in the context of swift springs being used on coilovers for 240SXs which completely excludes the use of progressive springs.
Big no. Spring rate delineation is not the primary cause of a "bouncy ride". The damper is the primary device that controls spring oscillations. A bouncy car, whether bouncy at lower frequencies (softer springs) or bouncy at higher frequencies (harder springs) is usually underdampened or poorly dampened (linear valving instead of digressive with sufficient rebound dampening).
Even a Swift spring will oscilate excessively if not properly dampened.
Did you read everything that was posted before you?
Again, this doesn't make them into progressive springs which deliberately increase spring rate with stroke. This makes them into bad springs.
Again, did you actually read anything that was said before you commented? more usable travel out of the spring was already stated as a benefit. Not sure who youre trying to prove wrong on this. It's also safe to assume that the majority of the members here have cars lowered to the point that their main issues with travel is with tires hitting the frame of the car, not with the usable spring stroke. That includes myself. My car isn't even "that low" in 240/zilvia standards, AND I've set up my coilovers to hit the bump stops just short of the tire (wheels straight) contacting the frame as you should, but despite that I run out of wheel travel long before spring travel.
It's a practical limitation of my choice to have my car look half decent at a somewhat low height. Maybe if I wanted to raise it to scca autocross spec then I would have to worry about spring travel. But I'm not because I didnt get a 240 as an ideal autocross car.
More catalog fun facts that have already been mentioned. I came here for technical information/conversation (that was my first mistake lol) and not sideline bleacher salesmen.
For the record, I have gen. 6 FA 500 coilovers. 8kg F and 6kg R. And again, you didn't tell me anything I didn't already know nor have you provided any actual personal driving experience.
I had Ohlins PCVs in my old Miata and have driven a wide variety of cars and suspension combinations including ADAC spec E90 on race valved Ohlins DFVs, a Swift on off the shelf DFVs, and plenty of Japanese platforms on Japanese coilovers. So I'm hardly limited in what I've actually driven. So for someone to try to catalog bullet point convince me of why I need springs on my half decent coilovers (in the 240 world) will at least make me raise an eye brow.
Lol I'm good. Thanks though.
|
I didn't know your understanding level of suspension, you were able to hash through my attempt to explain it like you knew nothing. Now that I know how much you understand and how much experience you actually have, I don't understand why you even started this thread. If you already knew all the benefits of good name brand springs, why do you even want to know what other people think about the benefits will be?
Aside from personal opinions, the fact is that Swift/Eibach springs will give you the most true specs out of the springs so you aren't chasing other suspension tuning issues when you are dialing the car in. Wouldn't it be painful if you are trying to dial out over steer but your springs are not spec'ed to what they say they are? If I told you Swift/Eibach springs are pieces of shit product and waste of money, you should have a rebuttal because you know they are supposed to be better with facts; just as if I were you tell you they are 1000% better than generic springs because it feels better on my spines, it's nothing more than my personal opinion and NOT a FACT and should be questioned.
tacotacotaco didn't misunderstand my first post, he just posted a explanation about what I posted first time to clarify the definitions of linear and progressive. The reason why I kept on calling generic springs progressive is because that is what they act like, I suppose I could have just called them bad springs like you did, but that doesn't explain why they are bad if I just simply called them bad springs. "Bad springs" we are all talking about are off spec linear springs and at that point they are no longer linear springs, if you advertise something to be linear and it acts like it's progressive, which one is it? he? she? they? them? If a compression type spring is not linear, it must be progressive.(strictly for vehicle use) This makes it full circle to my first post, bad spring is bad because they advertise to be linear but they are progressive or off spec.
You wanted technical information about springs, there are literally only two different types of springs for what we are talking about, how much more technical do you want to get into? I can tell you 8kg front and 6kg rear spring setup you have is too stiff, and I hate that industry standard springs specs for S-chassis is 8kg/6kg, that is literally to impress first time coilover purchaser that think stiff suspension is good suspension. (oops, personal opinion and not facts)
Catalog fun facts? They are FACTS and that's what matters when you want to talk technical information. And nice neg rep you gave me, just because we are having a debate over a topic we needed to establish a common ground on, doesn't mean you have to belittle everything I said. I am sure if we were actually talking in person this would have been a nice 10 min conversation tops and would have been cool topic to talk about. Who knows.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Both are linear rate springs. So unless the "conventional" spring was significantly flawed in such a way that its spring rate would vary throughout its compression (which seems like a serious manufacturing flaw) so much that the driver would feel it as some "negative" "less-than-ideal" sensation, I'd be skeptical."
^^YES! Exactly what I have been trying to say this whole time, you already had the answer. Not all generic springs are this way, and high chances of hit & misses; and that is exactly why Swift or Eibach springs will be beneficial over generic.
True to spec and consistency is what is beneficial.
Average coilover owners will not know the difference to feel said sensation, because chances of them experiencing true linear spring is slim to none. How many people do you personally know that owns a S-chassis that has changed out their springs to Swift/Eibach because they wanted to see how their cars will drift differently?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So for someone to try to catalog bullet point convince me of why I need springs on my half decent coilovers (in the 240 world) will at least make me raise an eye brow. Lol I'm good. Thanks though."
You literally asked for inputs and what the benefits will be. Would it have been better if I said you'll get all the girls to lay with you with the sight of you in your car? We are not playing Capt. Obvious and General Information here, Major Asshole doesn't even care to comment anyways.