Quote:
Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan
Wow I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before.
EastcoastS14 posted about his Tanabe Sevens, but missed out on what I think makes them the best coilover buy - the customizability!
Most coilovers, at any price point, have a spring that's set by the customer base (meaning softer for "autocross" and stiffer for "drifting"), then a damper that, hopefully, will work well across a very narrow adjustment range. This is undesirable for someone like me, who wants to be able to drive the car aggressively around town/freeways/etc, while maintaining maximum traction, with as smooth/predictable a ride as possible - but also drift well/predictably when the car's track ready.
After working for a Formula-D driver during the 06 season, I learned that EVERY professional drift car has unbelievably stiff springs and valving. Like, so stiff, the most hardcore zilvia wannabe would never drive like that on the street. So ideally you'd buy a set of coilovers that perform well when set very stiff, but also perform well (meaning no bouncing/excessive rebound) when you turn the compression down. This is what the Tanabe Sevens do.
Aside from these (my Sustec Pro Sevens), the only other setup I'd consider would be the KWs/Toplines (same thing, basically, from everything I hear), because they're raved about for similar reasons (actual adjustability, with rebound tracking with compression across the adjustment range), or a true 4-way adjustable setup (compression, rebound, ride height, preload). After tuning so many motorcycle suspensions (which have high- and low-speed compression and rebound adjustments), I just can't see going with a setup that locks you into one type of driving style, with cars that are otherwise so versatile.
Lets keep this thread on track with any other comparisons/contrasts to actual high-end suspension solutions, and how you tested/why you chose how you did. I like the fact that this isn't overrun with cheap shit, for lack of a better term.
|
The Tanabe Sevens weren't that great. And I hated the adjuster. It seemed like it could've been a good idea in theory, but I think Tanabe just dropped the ball when it came to putting the whole package together. If I understood the idea right or even if I gave them more credit than they deserved, the alignment of the adjuster would need to be dead on to work properly. Without that accurate alignment, damping would be whatever it wanted to be depending on how close the holes were to lining up. So if you could get that alignment, you would have a decent adjuster, but then they give you that cheap plastic adjuster piece. With a ton of play in it and very hard to get things even and at least adjusted the same side to side. So that just lot a ton of points. And I don't get how you're saying their more customizable?
As for coilovers at any price point coming with springs? Are you capping your price point at the top level of cheap stuff? All the JDM stuff comes with spring rates, but look at Moton or Koni or Penske or any other companies like that, they don't tell you what spring rates you should run.
And for wanting a damper to do everything. It's a damper, there are compromises. You can, and I have, valved dampers to ride nicely on the street, but still handle well on the road course and at drift events. It's all in the valving. But even though the car rode awesome, especially considering the spring rates, it still wasn't as comfortable a ride as in some stock normal person car. What you're saying would be like asking your engine to act like an NA V8 for driving around town, but then turn into a high powered turbo car when you get to the track. It doesn't happen. There's compromises here just like everywhere else. Unless you decide to put some MR (not megan racing, magnetorheological) dampers on the car, you aren't going to be able to get that. It's just impossible with a decarbon type damper.
And I don't think all FD cars are running super stiff springs and valving. I'm pretty sure I know of a couple that aren't. But if most are, it just shows where the sport is in terms of suspension development. I'm sure some teams are doing some good work, but I'm also sure a lot of people have found that a car will slide easier when everything is basically rigid. It's the driver's that need to go faster and have a more predictable car that are going a little softer and trying to get the valving to match the car. There are a lot of gains to be made in good dampers for any motorsport, drifting included. People will try and say that stiffest is the best, but I bet they haven't driven on a proper setup in anything competitive before. Stiffer is easier to get started with, but you're going to fight it when you're trying to go faster. You need grip for drifting and you won't get that when you're running way too stiff valving for the rest of the setup.
A true 4-way adjustable setup is not rebound, compression, height and preload when you're talking about a damper. A 4-way adjustable damper is low-speed rebound, low-speed compression, high-speed rebound, high-speed compression. Height and preload don't even need to be considered. And the only reason most companies need height and preload adjustment to be seperate is because their using a very modular setup so they don't have to make as many parts. If you had a properly sized damper for the ride height you wanted, you would only need one method of height adjustment. And if you were really good, you wouldn't need any.
The thing is, given a car that doesn't change weight for different events, and spring rates and sway bars that don't change for different events, you shouldn't need much adjustment in the damper for different events. Some fine tuning may be needed, but that is all you should really need. And that would also just be low speed tuning, high speed would normally stay about the same or there wouldn't be much reason to change it. That's assuming that the curves are good to begin with though. Which wouldn't characterize most of the normal setups that people here have experienced. But for a performance car, there's not a huge range of damping adjustment that you would need unless you're moving ballast around a lot or changing spring rates all the time. And if you feel the need for any big spring rate changes or changes in the weight or weight distribution of the car, then you should consider different dampers or revalveable dampers.
Tim