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Old 11-20-2019, 09:55 AM   #592
gbaby2089
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Originally Posted by exitspeed View Post
Yes some plants have closed, but many new plants have been announced and have been opened. Volvo, Mazda/Toyota ($1.6b), Foxconn, Fiat/Chrysler, and others. Would I expect NO plants to close under ANY administration? No. That’s an unrealistic expectation. Every plant has its own story which is independent of politics and fully dependent on market demand. The shift to CUVs started WELL before Trump even thought of running for president. As a matter of fact it IS a directly related to the boom in US oil manufacturing (fracking) which boomed under Obama by 77 percent. Which has been fantastic for this country. With cheap oil comes bigger vehicles and a shift in buying habits. I could go on and on about automotive trends (see the thread in OT) but I can assure you they are completely independent of any president.
Foxconn was a republican state government getting swindled & costing it taxpayers millions upon millions.

When the taxpayers are paying for a facility & making it so the state is unlikely to ever see anywhere near a return for that expenditure...that isn't a win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exitspeed View Post
Correct. I’ll fully agree with the that.

I‘ll also acknowledge though that most car people here (this being a car forum with the majority of its members being in CA) disagree with California’s emission standards. I for one applaud GM, Toyota and Fiat/Chrysler for standing up to California. Only under this Trump would these manufacturers have the balls to do this. And there are very big reasons why they’re doing it. It costs auto manufacturers millions upon millions of dollars in R&D, tooling, advertising, etc etc to comply with one states extra regulations. It’s absurd. Especially when CA has so many other real crises like housing, constant wildfires, etc.
GM & FCA are going against because they are dying everywhere other than the US and even here they can only sell gas guzzlers. Toyota is resisting because their trucks are supremely outdated gas guzzlers.

BTW, car guys only hate CA emissions regs because they're too young and/or ignorant to know how smoggy cities used to be. As well as too lazy to do the research to do modifications that can be BAR'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exitspeed View Post
While we’re on the topic of regulation and it’s effects on products and consumers, lets talk about the Obama administration vs the Trump administration. Under Obama regulations ballooned to all time highs. https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecr...tory-rulebook/ These regulations directly equate to more expensive vehicles. Obama era EPA rules were unrealistic and a tremendous financial burden on EVERY manufacturer. Hence them agreeing with the Trump administration on rolling them back, slightly. Trump has cut regulations at record rates which directly effects our economy in a positive way.
Yes, cars have gotten so expensive.

A 1991 Civic EX sedan had an MSRP of 11,450 USD. That's $21,634 in today's dollars. Today that buys a Civic Sport Sedan, with Apple Carplay, tons of safety features, 40+ MPG, etc. Let's not forget that a 1991 Civic is much closer to a modern Fit than a Civic, today's cars look even cheaper when we consider that.

Car prices are one of the few things that have not outpaced inflation/wages.

The cars that have seen their prices balloon most? Trucks & SUV.

A 1993 F150 Supercab longwheelbase 4x4 was 16,956 MSRP. That's $30197 in 2019. Today a 4x4 Supercab longwheel base is $37,665.

What about a Wrangler? A 1993 Saraha MSRP'd at $13,343, today that's $23,763. A 2019 Wrangler Sahara is four door only, so choosing the trim level that is closest in cost (actually $1000 less than a Sahara in four door trim), the Willy's trim, costs $33,990.

The Jeep Wrangler, one of the least fuel efficient cars on the road costs just under 50% more than inflation says it should while the type of cars that have kept up (and exceeded) emissions standards are exactly in line with inflation.

What gives?
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