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View Full Version : Is this a Tranny or Clutch problem?


Revolver Ocelot
10-24-2005, 03:47 PM
Heres the situation. Just replaced my KA with another KA. After doing so my tranny seems to grind while shifting. I really have to baby it for it not too. The tranny had no problems before i did the motor swap.
The only thing i could think of, is it is the new clutch that came with the motor. But it also feels like it could be a synchro problem.
First, all gears grind, but more noticable while going into second and third. When speed shifting it will always grind, but if i shift real easy it grinds sometimes and it will go in sometimes. Real 50/50.
Second, while in reverse if i rev too high it will actually make a grinding noise and the pedal feels like it vibrates along with the noise.
Already went to two shops, one said i need a new clutch and the other said i need a new tranny. So any new thoughts on this would greatly be appreciated.
Shawn.

DP_Michelle G
10-24-2005, 03:50 PM
when you did your ka swap did you swap from a sohc to dohc? what throw out bearings did you use?

Revolver Ocelot
10-24-2005, 03:55 PM
No its a 95. I went from DOHC to DOHC. I used the throwout bearing that was on the original tranny.

Revolver Ocelot
10-25-2005, 01:43 AM
Any opinions?

max_misawa
10-25-2005, 02:41 AM
SOHC clutches and DOHC clutches are the same
i know they have diffrent part numbers and all and the tO bearings are diffrent
fact of the matter is they are interchangeable i have used a sohc clutch on a DOHC becuase the TO bearing is about 40 bucks cheaper
and had no problem
so save your self some $$$ and just buy the cheaper TO bearing

now for your problem i think it might be as simple is that you are low on gear oil
did you check it?
maybe your hydrolics is messed up?
did you check that?

a easy test for the trans is to start the car and push the pedal all the way to the floor
if there is noise then there is a problem with the trans
when the pedal is all the way depressed the trans is supposed to be released (free floating sorta internally)

sw20>>s14
10-25-2005, 03:39 AM
for second and third grinding more noticably, i point towards wearing syncros because those are the two most common ones to go first...

as for the peculiar problem of all of them grinding, id agree with max...you might be low on tranny fluid...just check it hella quick...open up the filler plug and poke your finger through parallel to the ground, then slightly bend your finger at an angle...with the slightest bend, you should be able to feel fluid...

or you used the wrong tranny fluid...its been a while so i forgot, but something along the lines of anything under GL4 is not viscous enough...so choose one that meets or exceeds GL4...my tranny had some catches in third and second...changed to redline MT-90 (GL4) and its been a lot better...keep in mind, it does take some time for the fluid to warm up due to the slightly higher viscosity, so expect a lot of resistance in the morning for about 30-45 secs...thats if you park your car outside like i do...

other than that, best of luck...i know how tranny woes feel like...

sw20>>s14
10-25-2005, 03:46 AM
oh yeah, what kind of clutch is it? if aftermarket, do you notice clutch chatter? maybe you need to adjust your clutch pedal...maybe bleed your slave? just some thoughts considering that your grinding in every gear...points out that something in the driveline is not functioning properly because i highly doubt your tranny is that obselete...

the head
10-25-2005, 08:51 AM
My vote is the synchros are starting to go

drain the trans and throw in some GM synchro mesh manual trans fluid it will smooth things out a little I had a bad 1-2 grind on my sr trans and that stuff cleared it right up

Revolver Ocelot
10-25-2005, 01:15 PM
I had used some valvoline 80-90 when i filled the tranny. I got it for free. But ill proably drain it and either try redline or the GM stuff. I actually dont know what kind of clutch it is. It came with the new KA i got. It was smaller than the stock one. Circumference wise. Would i just go to the chevy dealer for the GM stuff? Oh yea, thanks for all the suggestion guys, you have been alot more helpful then the shops i have been too lately.

drift freaq
10-25-2005, 01:34 PM
it sounds like a clutch issue to me, but like max said , if you push your pedal all the way to the floor and get no rotating noise then your trans is most likely fine. Also your synchros would not all of sudden go from no noise to being noisy , right after a engine swap. 80-90 weight gear oil once heated up would be sufficient if not the most ideal. If you want a quick shifting super quite setup run straight 30 weight engine oil. Its a old racing trick. The only thing about it is you have to change it out every year or two.
I would guess you have a funky clutch on your hands especially if it did not look right size wise when you were putting the engine in. A lot of cheap clutch job shops use crap for clutches and don't change pilot bushings or get grease on the clutch surface.

Revolver Ocelot
10-25-2005, 01:48 PM
Alright just went outside to check. Started the car and pushed in the clutch, no noise or anything out of the ordinary. So i guess i can rule the tranny out. When i realease the pedal i can hear the throwout bearing come back. Well i assume it is the throwout bearing. So i guess ill just have the clutch replaced and see what happens.

Revolver Ocelot
10-25-2005, 02:27 PM
Just found out that it is an exedy clutch and exedy pressure plate. If that makes a difference.

the head
10-25-2005, 03:09 PM
the gm stuff can be purchased at any gm dealership

to clarify the grinding started after the motor swap right? did you swap teh trans or just the motor if you swapped both it could be the trans if you just swapped the engine and kept the same trans it is probably in the clutch

Revolver Ocelot
10-25-2005, 03:46 PM
Yea, same trans as before.

sw20>>s14
10-25-2005, 04:24 PM
you can buy syncromesh from autozone...pennzoil makes it for GMs...

now that you mention in more detail, i think its the clutch...like i said, i highly doubt your tranny is that unsalvagable...

Revolver Ocelot
10-25-2005, 05:34 PM
Dammit i just all around town looking for redline and couldnt find anyone that sold it. The guys at autozone looked at me like i was talking about something mythical. So if go and get penzoil 75-90 it is the same as gm synchromesh.
Also on my way home i downshifted into 2nd as i was slowing doen and the loudest screetch noise possible came out when i realeased the clutch. So its been an all around great day. :cj:

aznpoopy
10-25-2005, 09:49 PM
ive never seen redline for sale in a retail store. myoilshop.com has it. its in the zilvia links section has it along with a coupon code.

as for your clutch problem, i've had a t/o bearing issue and it doesn't affect shifting. it just makes a grinding noise when you clutch pedal in (clutch released). thats the sound of a partly seized bearing rubbing against spinning pressure plate teeth. check hydraulics. maybe it's not disengaging fully and when you shift it's a half clutchless shift. i imagine that would cause some grinding.

Revolver Ocelot
10-26-2005, 01:12 PM
Ill check the hydraulics. if all else fails ill have to get a new clutch. Maybe i broke it in wrong?

altralosix
10-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Pennzoil makes synchromesh for GM. I think GM actually has a couple of different kinds of it, but supposedly the Pennzoil stuff is the same as one of them and about 1/3 the price. Just go to Autozone and get the Pennzoil syncrhomesh. I put it in my car a while back and it definitely smoothed up the shifting. A couple of my synchros are worn, and switching fluid didn't solve the problem but it made it less noticable.

altitude
10-26-2005, 02:36 PM
Quick test to see if it's a tranny or clutch-disengagement issue:

- start the car
- go into neutral and make sure the clutch gets engaged (pedal up)
- fully depress the clutch pedal (pedal down)
- move to first gear. now this should grind, right?
- go back to neutral and dont release the clutch pedal (keep down)
- wait 1 or 2 sec and put it back into first

Did it grind again? It if does grind this means to clutch does not fully disengage.
Most probable cause is your hydraulics, make sure its bled properly, etc.

If it does not grind, try it a couple more times to make sure. Still no grind means the clutch is properly disengaged so try the Synchromesh oil

Does this make sense? (I'm no expert)

max_misawa
10-26-2005, 02:45 PM
ive never seen redline for sale in a retail store. myoilshop.com has it. its in the zilvia links section has it along with a coupon code.

as for your clutch problem, i've had a t/o bearing issue and it doesn't affect shifting. it just makes a grinding noise when you clutch pedal in (clutch released). thats the sound of a partly seized bearing rubbing against spinning pressure plate teeth. check hydraulics. maybe it's not disengaging fully and when you shift it's a half clutchless shift. i imagine that would cause some grinding.

"Parts plus" auto stores keep redline in stock
pretty much every shop around here (sf bay area)
has redline in stock

Max

sw20>>s14
10-26-2005, 05:58 PM
Dammit i just all around town looking for redline and couldnt find anyone that sold it. The guys at autozone looked at me like i was talking about something mythical. So if go and get penzoil 75-90 it is the same as gm synchromesh.

if your lookin for MT-90, you wont find it at any regular auto parts stores...go on redline's site and they list quite a few distributors in the bay...i called each and everyone near me and the cheapest was kohlweiss...maybe too far for you though...

as for the pennzoil, almost all kragen and autozones have em...i forgot the weights and specs, but it says GM syncromesh on the yellow bottle...and it does do wonders for a fraction of the cost...my buddy used it on his sw20 and i use MT-90...both are good stuff, however, MT-90 costs a lot more per bottle...

but thats besides the point...sorry to say, but it doesnt seem like tranny fluid is your main problem...

aznpoopy
10-26-2005, 06:20 PM
"Parts plus" auto stores keep redline in stock
pretty much every shop around here (sf bay area)
has redline in stock

Max

east coast 0 west coast 1

damn you!

Revolver Ocelot
10-26-2005, 06:23 PM
Quick test to see if it's a tranny or clutch-disengagement issue:

- start the car
- go into neutral and make sure the clutch gets engaged (pedal up)
- fully depress the clutch pedal (pedal down)
- move to first gear. now this should grind, right?
- go back to neutral and dont release the clutch pedal (keep down)
- wait 1 or 2 sec and put it back into first

Did it grind again? It if does grind this means to clutch does not fully disengage.
Most probable cause is your hydraulics, make sure its bled properly, etc.

If it does not grind, try it a couple more times to make sure. Still no grind means the clutch is properly disengaged so try the Synchromesh oil

Does this make sense? (I'm no expert)
Actually it only grinds while in motion. I tried what you said and no grinding at all. Iam guessing that means synchros. But can synchros be on and off? Shift alright one second and grind the next? Also in reverse if i rev to high while backing up it will let out a screetch metal type noise and the pedal will actually vibrate along with the noise. With that said this is really pissing me off and iam gonna have a beer. :faint:

Revolver Ocelot
10-26-2005, 11:12 PM
New update, as iam driving home from work i start shifting by pretty much stomping on the clutch pedal as hard as i can down to the floor. And shift real firmly i guess. And no grind. Wierd, i try to baby it and it goes wrong and now iam treating it like a bitch and its fine with it.

drift freaq
10-26-2005, 11:29 PM
sounds like a clutch to me, what your describing is classic clutch issues.

theicecreamdan
10-26-2005, 11:41 PM
it actually sounds like the clutch hydraulics in that last thing... check clutch master cylinder for fluid,

NI_YON_Zenki
10-26-2005, 11:47 PM
I don't know what the hell everyone else said. .. .
But if you want to wait it out a couple of days, I'll drop you info on that personally, I'm doing the same thing with my KA. .. .& I have an ACT clutch, If I begin to grind everything everywhere. .. I'll be sure to get back to YOU ! ! !first thing, but for now, go & find out whether or not you have an automatic KA from the KA you had before, if so. you need to change the flywheels, cause there is a difference between the two. .. I'll take pictures if you want. .. .

TBA

drift freaq
10-26-2005, 11:58 PM
I don't know what the hell everyone else said. .. .
But if you want to wait it out a couple of days, I'll drop you info on that personally, I'm doing the same thing with my KA. .. .& I have an ACT clutch, If I begin to grind everything everywhere. .. I'll be sure to get back to YOU ! ! !first thing, but for now, go & find out whether or not you have an automatic KA from the KA you had before, if so. you need to change the flywheels, cause there is a difference between the two. .. I'll take pictures if you want. .. .

TBA
hahahahah this is funny, you can't use a clutch on a automatic flywheel:rofl:

Revolver Ocelot
10-27-2005, 01:26 AM
So what do you guys think. If it was you. Would you go out and get a new clutch?

max_misawa
10-27-2005, 01:26 AM
Auto's dont have a flywheel
its acctually caled a "flex plate"

Max

drift freaq
10-27-2005, 01:29 AM
So what do you guys think. If it was you. Would you go out and get a new clutch?
check your hydraulics to make sure you have no air in the system, or you slave or master is not going, first. Once you have eliminated that then your culprit most likely is your clutch itself.

drift freaq
10-27-2005, 01:30 AM
Auto's dont have a flywheel
its acctually caled a "flex plate"

Max
you are correct sir. though for the laymens sake a lot of people consider it a form of flywheel.

Revolver Ocelot
10-27-2005, 01:39 AM
Proably a stupid question but how do i check if the master cylinder or slave is bad? I checked and the fluid is full and ive bled the system twice. No air.

drift freaq
10-27-2005, 01:47 AM
Proably a stupid question but how do i check if the master cylinder or slave is bad? I checked and the fluid is full and ive bled the system twice. No air.
are you sure there is no air? how does your pedal feel? Are you still running the stock clutch dampner i.e. you have not removed it? They are notorious for trapping air in system and you thinking its all bled out.

Revolver Ocelot
10-27-2005, 01:52 AM
Pedal feels fine, but i do have that dam stock damper still there. Ive bled it twice and no air comes out any longer. But i guess first thing i should do is remove the damper, then iam gonna try the redline mt90. And go from there.