i don't see the benefit of me doing my own work anymore. [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

gundamzeta

06-13-2005, 03:48 AM

I've been looking around, and the market price for an S13 with a SR20DET and/ or other mods goes for around 6-8 thousand dollars.

I'll probably be spending that much if I decide to start another project S13 agian, but starting a project and doing my own work will come at a great cost of time and and even greater opportunity cost-- I make a decent wage at my stable job, I make more money with my own business and I'm pursuing a Doctorate in economics.
Doing my own work doesn't make sense anymore.
I'd rather be driving my car into the ground than working on it anyways.

Sil Beer S13

06-13-2005, 03:51 AM

^ Weak!

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gundamzeta

06-13-2005, 04:04 AM

^ Weak!

realizing that time and resources are scarce and limited is a sign of weakness?

I can do my own work, but I don't find any pleasure in doing it, and when i had my old CA18DET fastback, I only did my own work because I couldn't afford it.

I like driving. I like drifting. I like going to auto-x, and I like driving around the Central valley's many touge-like mount passes.

What I don't like to do is pull my car apart and figuring out what's wrong, or WORKING on it hours. it's not hard for to do, I just hate doing it.

I'm a better at driving than I am at mechanics, and I think it's best to specialize in not only what i'm better at but what I enjoy more.

kandyflip445

06-13-2005, 04:16 AM

If you can afford it and don't like working on the car then by all means get a good shop to work on it. Screw people that tell you it's weak. Why the fuck would you wrench on your car if you didn't enjoy it or feel any satisfaction? Take it to a shop and then get out and drive.

broken_s13

06-13-2005, 04:53 AM

I personally feel like every car person should work on on their own cars. How can you say you actually built the car if all you did was pay some guy at a shop to do all the work. There isnt any sence of accomplishment or joy when u drive around a car that you havent put hard work, sweat, and time into.

sw20>>s14

06-13-2005, 05:04 AM

realizing that time and resources are scarce and limited is a sign of weakness?

I can do my own work, but I don't find any pleasure in doing it, and when i had my old CA18DET fastback, I only did my own work because I couldn't afford it.

I like driving. I like drifting. I like going to auto-x, and I like driving around the Central valley's many touge-like mount passes.

What I don't like to do is pull my car apart and figuring out what's wrong, or WORKING on it hours. it's not hard for to do, I just hate doing it.

I'm a better at driving than I am at mechanics, and I think it's best to specialize in not only what i'm better at but what I enjoy more.

i understand what your saying, but it just wont feel the same...when you work on your own car, you have the benefit of having piece of mind...i work on my own car, i might take an hour for a half an hour job, but i do it right and i do it thouroughly. no one can be as meticulous as the owner. not even the best mechanic...if something goes wrong, i most likely will know what exactly it is and who to blame: me. so i wont have to stress about feeling i got jacked from a shop...there are plenty of good shops that do good work...but it just wont be the same...too impersonal for me IMO. im the laziest bum in the world and i somehow get my shit done...if i could do it you definitely can...just my 2

revat619

06-13-2005, 05:14 AM

^^^:werd:
I see your point, but i understand where gundamzeta is coming from as well. I think it just depends on the person. As long as the person really drives (i.e. has a reason behind buying the mods the have and not just to be "cool"), thats all that really matters to me. I dont know all the ends and outs of a 240, so if i dont how to do something exactly, i always have my more knowledgeable friends help me out with the install.

For example, I readily admit that i HATE wiring. I wont even waste my time with it cuz i know i dont have the patience for it. Plus, i dont know enough about electrical anyways. I dont trust myself not to screw it up. So i always have somebody else do that crap.

420sx

06-13-2005, 08:19 AM

blah blah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

you do realize YOU sound like those porshe, vette and ferrari drivers now? the true "car enthusiasts".....

even when i have my degree finished i will do my own work. u never know what is done to the car if its not YOU. you break something - oh well! you learn from that experience. time? eveyone has time, its like saying "i got no time to work out". bullshit.

420sx

06-13-2005, 08:26 AM

^^^:werd:

For example, I readily admit that i HATE wiring. crap.

i do agree with you on things that i hate to. BUt i learned how to do it anyway.

the way i handle shit i cant do since i never done it before... i let it sit, since i refuse, since im so stuborn, to take it to some shop to let them fuck it up even more. so i let it sit and sit, dont do shit, till it has to be done or i finally decided to do it. and i will do it. will take me time, and parts, since i break shit quite often - impatience and muscle. but i will get it done. i will finish it. and learn from it. well thats all to say about working on the car yourself.

Replicant_S14

06-13-2005, 08:37 AM

realizing that time and resources are scarce and limited is a sign of weakness?.

No. When you get to the point where you can put a specific dollar amount on your time then it's entirely reasonable.

420sx

06-13-2005, 08:45 AM

^ like $5.15 an hour? :)

MakotoS13

06-13-2005, 08:55 AM

impatience and muscle. but i will get it done. i will finish it. and learn from it.

correct. i've broken many a bolt due to my sheer manliness.

Yuri

06-13-2005, 09:03 AM

If you can afford to have a good shop work on it, and most of the work you do on the car is no longer enjoyable, then by all means let someone else do your work. Some stuff on my car I love to do, other stuff I hate. I think a big turning point for me was when I had to change the head gasket on my supra. Since then, I have graduated college, and have a nice job, but would rather spend the weekends driving or with my friends than changing my turbo gaskets again or figuring out a shorting wiring harness. By eliminating the "busy work" on my car, it makes it that more enjoyable when I do work on my car, putting on or repairing something that's much more fun to do. It becomes something I can set aside time for, rather than having to make time for. It is also more fun to make it a social event, working on my s13 with all my s13 owning friends than spending until the early hours of the morning on a work night covered in oil or transmission fluid. Just because you pay a reputable shop to do work that you would not look forward to doing does not mean you aren't capable of doing that work.

the head

06-13-2005, 09:35 AM

It all depends on your view on working on cars i prefer working on more simplistic cars or ones that have been stripped down for ease of work
I am a car collector and I have my own shop to maintain my vehciles but some shit i hate working on and there are some jobs i don't like to do

I hate changing oil so i dont do it anymore
and some of the other cars are such a bitch to work on that i dont get any pleasure from it. the 240 though is great and really easy to work on I love fixing it as much as i love breaking it.

06-13-2005, 10:04 AM

I totally agree. What is your time worth to you? Basically when you pay to have someone else do it is what you are paying for - their expertise and time. My friends and I have all wrenched on our cars before either because of lack of money or just to learn how to do something.

Now I'd rather spend my time driving and hanging out with friends than underneath my car. I can afford to pay someone who knows a lot more about the car than myself to work on it and it saves me time to do other things I like as well. I spent 2 years waiting to drive my car because I didn't have the money to do it right the 1st time and tinkered around with it myself. Now I can drive it and I don't want to worry about little things anymore that will stop me from driving it whenever I have time to go drive.

I still enjoy doing things like changing the oil or brakes/suspension - the stuff that I can set aside time for and not have to do immediately. The engine and electrical work I leave to the experts.

sepulchral

06-13-2005, 10:13 AM

the simple satisfaction of knowing how your cars were built and what corners were/weren't cut is why i build my own

infinitexsound

06-13-2005, 12:33 PM

wow i think its time to upgrade, why do u still own "the poor mans ferrari?" if your seriously making alot of money like u say u are....... buy a new car.. so you wouldnt have to fix things so much...

Yoshi

06-13-2005, 01:49 PM

Wow. what's with all the haters?

Let's look from a different perspective. Barring rally (cuz there are different rules there, those guys have to know how to fix stuff mid-race on their own til help arrives... all of which means lost time), pretty much EVERY professional motorsport doesn't have their driver as the head of their pit crew. It just makes sense. Less time wrenching = more time for practice/racing. F1, NASCAR, enduro, doesn't really matter. Does Jeff Gordon work on his car? No way, he has ppl for that. Could he do it himself, of course! But that's not the most efficient way to run a team.

If he's got the money, more power to him.
Maybe he doesn't like Ferrari people...
Maybe he can afford the work done to a 240 vs. something more expensive.... makes sense doesn't it?

You haters shouldn't be mad just because he has the spare cash to save himself some skinned knuckles and wrench time. If I spent less time wrenching and more time doing other things (like my wife? hahaha), my lil woman would be much happier... she'd rather ride around than watch me cuss at my car anyhow ;)

It's all about where your priorities are.
Spend accordingly.

justinhustle

06-13-2005, 02:10 PM

to me, knowing i can do it is enough sometimes

however lately i dont trust anyone, so ive been working on my cars, my girls, and my familys

which leaves the 240 last =/

i should charge for my time! :D

MakotoS13

06-13-2005, 02:14 PM

correct, if i had the finances i'd pay a shop to put an ls2 in my car. however, since i'm not rich i dont. i just happen to enjoy working on my car as well as driving it.

different strokes for different folks. deal.

holisticbeatz

06-13-2005, 02:15 PM

i don't see the benefit of me doing my own work anymore.

I agree.. somewhat.

If I can do it myself while saving a lot of $$ and I have all the tools I need for the job, then I would do it. Otherwise, I'd rather someone do it for me.

I don't even do my own oil changes anymore. Its too much trouble.

I change my oil with not a wrench but with a credit card.

TheSnail

06-13-2005, 03:12 PM

420sx

06-13-2005, 04:07 PM

i can guarantee my second sr swap wont take more than a day. including prep and pulling old engine out. once u "know-how" its a piece of cake. now harness is different, no need to rush there:)

infinitexsound

06-13-2005, 04:14 PM

Engine Swaps Are EASY, I just hate wiring

06-13-2005, 04:17 PM

It takes 8hrs to install a sr, and it would cost you 1200 for a shop to install it. You have failed econ if you cant see its the same as you making $150per hour if you do it your self. Im sure you dont make half of that perhour. Maybe not even a fourth.

That's assuming you knew how to do it in the first place. You don't count the time it takes to learn how to swap a motor + the headaches when it doesn't run if you don't know what to do and troubleshoot. Then you end up wasting hours and it ends up at the shop anyway. That's downtime some people can't afford as a daily driver.

thx247

06-13-2005, 05:41 PM

Sounds good to me, my time is more important than learning/doing certian things.

420sx

06-13-2005, 08:08 PM

yea i dont think i will make same mistake twice on my second swap. will be alot faster. plus my first swap was a hybrid s14/13

TurDz

06-13-2005, 08:38 PM

SochBAT

06-13-2005, 09:05 PM

I don't personally trust the butthead mechs around my area, so DIY mechanics is a must.

And, i know everythin that goes into my car, and leaves it. What if you had a mech do all the work, and your car broke down in the boondocks, and can't reach a tower?

TheSnail

06-13-2005, 09:28 PM

Yup, it really is a matter of preference, and we should all respect that if someone has a greater opportunity with his time elsewhere, and feels its a larger priority, by all means go for it.

My vehicle stability professor said to us once,

"I may have friends who know how to wrench better than me, who can weld better than me, and who can cut metal and build great race cars better than me, but in the end, all of it is based around the the typical fundamental designs of today. Once technology improves, those people will fall behind and have to re-learn a whole new way of working with cars, go to another technical college to learn the current technology, while we [engineers] are always looking forward to improve and innovate."

What he said (not in exact quotes) struck me pretty hard with the reasoning behind wanting to becoming a mechanical engineer since I was losing some motivation. And it's a prime example of what people may want to do besides wrenching/fixing cars but still stay 100% within the automotive field. His words mean a lot because he's a really intelligent professor who is very qualified in his field.

What if your a Mechanical Engineer at GT, and since you dont have a job since HOPE pays for everything, you spend all your free time wrenchin, doing swaps, making money, doing every type of swap, and making a bunch of innovative things for the 240. Its very simple once you get the concept of what makes a car or 240 in this case. It then becomes like lego's. I dont see how wrenchin on your own car would affect your future career. In fact, for us engineers, wrenching now, will better our career in the future.

ka24det-power

06-13-2005, 10:16 PM

You have DRIVERS and you have BUILDERS.

I am a BUILDER - I haven’t owned a car yet that I didn’t end up tearing down to the frame. My most recent S13 project is a prime example. I upgrade, boost, break, rebuild, cut, chop, paint, slam, tune, every car I own. It is an extension of your personality. A highly modified car commands respect on the road and there is no better feeling than knowing that you created this monster that mustangs have 4 cylinder nightmares about.

IMO if you are a DRIVER then go buy a SRT4 or STI where you can get a warranty, you can’t expect to drive a 10 year old modified vehicle and not get your hands dirty.

I too am very busy,.. I am a IT Manger on a 550 workstation network for an International company, but I always make time to bolt on a fresh BB turbo upgrade.

SochBAT

06-14-2005, 02:46 AM

Well, even if being a mechanic will make us "fall behind" as far as fixing cars, that doesn't mean we just stop learning period. And its not really as if they suddenly drop a whole new type of engine/suspension setup totally foreign to mechs. All technology really does is improve working condition things, and make them more efficient.

MakotoS13

06-14-2005, 07:26 AM

"I may have friends who know how to wrench better than me, who can weld better than me, and who can cut metal and build great race cars better than me, but in the end, all of it is based around the the typical fundamental designs of today. Once technology improves, those people will fall behind and have to re-learn a whole new way of working with cars, go to another technical college to learn the current technology, while we [engineers] are always looking forward to improve and innovate."

wrong. as an engineer you should constantly be rethinking ideas, tearing them down to make them better, mechanics adapt to this.

if the engineer does his job right the mechanic doesn't have to think too hard.

Replicant_S14

06-14-2005, 08:12 AM

IMO if you are a DRIVER then go buy a SRT4 or STI where you can get a warranty, you can’t expect to drive a 10 year old modified vehicle and not get your hands dirty.

Those aren't 4cyl FR coupes. If that's what you want, you're kinda stuck.

Besides, if I were to build a car like I wanted it, it'd cost me around 20k and I'd probably only get half that if I sold it. That isn't even taking in to account the value of my time. If you can find one that's already done to your liking (or even close), it makes economic sense. That's what the original poster is talking about.

ayes

06-14-2005, 09:11 AM

some shops are plain retarded, i went in for an alignment and the car came out worse than it was when i brought it there, with like 0 degrees of caster on one side and like stock on the other, DIY owns

420sx

06-14-2005, 11:33 AM

^^^i dont trust any of those hoes anymore. incompetent fools. good places cost alot.

NemeGuero

06-14-2005, 01:17 PM

You're spoiled man.. you want all the work to be done for you and not have to lift a finger.. it's not 'cuz you don't enjoy workin' on your own car anymore, it's cuz you're lazy. haha, don't buy another 240, especially with a swap..

TurDz

06-14-2005, 02:39 PM

wrong. as an engineer you should constantly be rethinking ideas, tearing them down to make them better, mechanics adapt to this.

if the engineer does his job right the mechanic doesn't have to think too hard.

where am I wrong makoto? didn't I say improve and innovate? doesn't the definition of innovate mean bring totally new ideas to the table?

NemeGuero

06-14-2005, 02:43 PM

TurDz

06-14-2005, 02:45 PM

What if your a Mechanical Engineer at GT, and since you dont have a job since HOPE pays for everything, you spend all your free time wrenchin, doing swaps, making money, doing every type of swap, and making a bunch of innovative things for the 240. Its very simple once you get the concept of what makes a car or 240 in this case. It then becomes like lego's. I dont see how wrenchin on your own car would affect your future career. In fact, for us engineers, wrenching now, will better our career in the future.

I guess people are interpreting my post as different things. It's not black or white. I'm just saying people would like to invest time in their priorities. My professor's priorties were vehicle dynmaics and control systems. I think all he did was go to school, get his Ph.D, and get a job "designing stuff."

By all means, if you have free time, wrench away. That's what I do. I just wanted to point out why preferring not to wrench shouldn't be considered a bad thing.

06-14-2005, 03:05 PM

I wrench when I can but I know my limits and when its time for someone else to take over.

And yes, quality mechanics are hard to find. You definitely get what you pay for.

MakotoS13

06-14-2005, 03:12 PM

where am I wrong makoto? didn't I say improve and innovate? doesn't the definition of innovate mean bring totally new ideas to the table?

bringing a new idea that makes sense in a manner that is the most efficient way possible makes it easier on the mechanic. i.e. the easy access panel in the trunk that makes dropping the tank to install a fuel pump unecessary.

contrast that to the auto tranny in the FWD cougar. its sidways and you can't pull the pan off to change the fluid inside of it, thus, it or the car is badly engineered.

if they do their job right it makes fixing their creation easier. if they innovate just for the sake of change it mucks it all up. its as simple as that.

revat619

06-14-2005, 03:19 PM

I wrench when I can but I know my limits and when its time for someone else to take over.

And yes, quality mechanics are hard to find. You definitely get what you pay for.

My point EXACTLY.

Quality mechanics are definitely hard to find. If i have to pay somebody to do work on my car, there's only one mechanic locally that i trust. He always does a kick ass job.

2JZGTE

06-14-2005, 03:39 PM

It's always nice to have someone do your car work for you because then you don't have to bust your ASS.

I don't mind working on my cars though. I get satisfaction out of simply knowing the car was built by myself.

When something breaks guess what? You know exactly what it is and how to fix it... not to say you won't know how to fix it if someone else has been working on your car, but you will bitch and whine more when that part breaks because you aren't use to working on your car anymore. If something breaks on mine, it's just another day of working in the garage, no biggie.

Some people just don't get satisfaction out of the effort needed to work on their own cars. As with anything, if you don't like doing it or don't get satisfaction out of doing it then you might as well pay someone else to do it for you. My friends think I'm crazy for the amount of work I put in my rides but it's all relative. They don't work on their own cars, but they also don't enjoy them as much as me and they pay more than me when their shit breaks.

Is the time needed worth it to you? Also, do you get any enjoyment out of doing your own work and seeing the end result? The original poster sounds like he needs to put his time into other more important areas. Of course...time is precious and in some circumstances it would be stupid to throw a lot of your man-hours into your car if it can be applied to other things more important to you. CHOOSE WISELY :eek3d:

whew
billy

infinitexsound

06-14-2005, 05:01 PM

AND THE SURVEY SAYS!

This thread is getting GAY! :ghey:

SDS14Driver

06-14-2005, 05:53 PM

If i had the $$ to hire Jim Wolf Technology's expertise on a regular basis vs doing my own stuff, sheeit, i would have had them wrenching like yesterday. It just boils down to who you trust for the job you need done; true a lot of us know a lot about our car's make up n stuff and we have our own preferences but a pro's a pro. Having a professional shop care for your car may actually spark your interest in what's going on under the hood.

I'm anal about my car though so i can't stand anybody else working on it unless they're a super well known nissan expert tuner shop like JWT; and even then i'd only hire them for something i couldn't handle myself.

Get your doctorate and have your car professionally tuned to your liking so all you'll have to do is regular PM on a perfectly customized vehicle.