are 300z brakes neccesary?

[XXX4life]

ok i need new brakes on my 240 and don't really wanna spend the money for a 300z setup if it's not needed. i'd like to just get some new drilled rotors and some good pads? i'm planning on building my car for about 250hp and wanna have good stopping power, can i do that without switching to 300z brakes? if so what pads should i buy for my stock calipers?
thanks

[nrcooled]

If you never plan on taking your car to the track then I think that the stockers are fine. They suck but since your use to it you will never know. The z32 upgrade it worth it if you like to touge or do road course events (HPDEs) and the like.

What sucks about the stockers is that after about 3 hot laps my pedal would be going to the floor and the brakes would start fading. They are just too damn small

BTW - I had a sr'd 240 making 244hp 252lb/ft

[XXX4life]

well i plan on tracking my car sometimes, drifting and running all the mountains roads around me, if it's worth getting 300z brakes then i will do it, i just wanna know why

[nrcooled]

I'll give you a couple of reasons

1. bigger rotors
2. four piston calipers
3. fixed calipers

All very good reasons. The stock s13-s14 brakes suck the big one!

[Wei240]

it's nice to have, but not necessary...

how often do you plan to track, if not often, then probably not worth it... it doesn't necessarily make your car brake faster, it just prevents brake fade by a bunch, other factors like sticky tires, better pads will make the car stop faster

drilled rotors = cheese grater, it'll eat up pad faster than non drilled/slot, but also good for prevent brake fade, if you plan on 90% daily drive like i do, i think it's a waste for both 300z setup and/or drill/slot rotors...

[XXX4life]

my car is a daily driver, but will be like 250hp, next month it's getting a full roll cage put in, so it's gonna be my daily and my weekend warrior, honestly i will probably hit the track once or twice a year, i'm more building the car as my project fun, mountain roads car

[thaiger77]

Why? humm.... 4 piston calipers vs. single piston? Plus with the weight of 240 comparing with 300zx, 240sx would stop on a dime. I have project mu pads. Been to a couple of touge runs and drift for almost a year now and still work great. Oh yeah, with Cali traffic, the 300zx brakes upgrade saved my ass from a sudden traffic stop cause I would have ran right into the car in front of me with out being to stop on a dime.

[Wei240]

well, if you got the dough, go for it, cuz i would,
but i rather spend on other things first...
especially xmas is coming around, i'll be broke... :(

[nrcooled]

it's nice to have, but not necessary...

how often do you plan to track, if not often, then probably not worth it... it doesn't necessarily make your car brake faster, it just prevents brake fade by a bunch, other factors like sticky tires, better pads will make the car stop faster

drilled rotors = cheese grater, it'll eat up pad faster than non drilled/slot, but also good for prevent brake fade, if you plan on 90% daily drive like i do, i think it's a waste for both 300z setup and/or drill/slot rotors...


1. Larger pad + larger rotor = better braking
2. sticky tires will just cause the stock brakes to fade that much faster.
3. 300z setup is cheap and available

Just remember to do the rears and change your master cylinder

[thaiger77]

If you plan on building your car, you have to think that brake up grade is a big deal worth spending your money on. For me, I start from the ground up, brakes upgrade, suspension, and then power. Cause power ain't shit with out control.

[XXX4life]

yeah i decided to build this car the right way unlike my last car which was turbo but with stock everything else!
so i'm building this car right
so far i have new suspension arms, will have my roll cage done next month and then getting an LSD this week and hopefully coils and brakes for christmas and then after that i'm gonna turbo my ka and shooting for about 250hp
but i want the car to handle good and be solid first

[sykikchimp]

They're really not necessary. ITS race cars run stock brakes with good brake ducting and race pads and have very few problems. I promise they are running MUCH MUCH harder than you ever will on the street, or the track until you start running race tires.

When you put new calipers and rotors on your car your also playing havok with the vehicles brake bias, and brake modulation/feel. After putting z brakes on my car stopping distance increased, and the car became harder to rotate under trail braking. The brake pedal also became very soft, especially the top 1-2"'s or so. NOT good for track driving. Quite frustrating actually. I honestly recommend exploiting your stock brake system to it's fullest potential before upgrading. There are things you can do to fix these shortcommings if you really want a quality braking system.

Call carbotecheng.com or cobaltfriction.com and tell them what you are planning to do with the car, and they will recomend a pad to suit. carbotech tends to make more street friendly pads.

Another benefit to keeping stock brakes is the rotors are cheaper. :)

also, cross-drilled rotors are pointless. They were built to handle pad compounds that had large outgassing when they reached extreme temperatures. Very few performance pads have this problem these days, unless your running $30 autozone pads. Pads without holes in them are more safe, and have a higher thermal capacity.

[sykikchimp]

1. Larger pad + larger rotor = better braking

Not trying to pick on you here, but there are a couple things wrong with this statement. #1 larger pads do not increase braking force. They increase thermal capacity, but not braking force. #2 larger rotors don't = better braking. (you should know better. :-P) They equal more braking force at that specific part of the braking system. In order to get "better braking" you have to plan your upgrades around the entire system taking into consideration things liek pad compound, bias, MC size, etc..

[nrcooled]

Charles - you know what I mean. I am at work and don't have time to get all "bill nye" right now.

larger rotor plus larger pad means more heat dissipation and heat holding capacity. the larger surface area will help.

Did you change out your master cylinder when you went to z32s, also did you add a PV to help the bias issue?

[nrcooled]

All I can say is the difference between the Evo and the 240 brakes are night and day. I can run all day at the track and the brakes feel as though nothing had happened

This is with tons of trail braking and 130-132mph blasts down the front straight of Summit Point. There is something to say about a well sorted brakes.

[shoes59]

my car is a daily driver, next month it's getting a full roll cage put in
Not a good idea and illegal in some states. Why a full cage if you only intend to run at the track a couple times a year? A 4 point will suffice and save your skull if you wreck on the street.

[final act]

I must say, I love the z break mod.....feels better than stock in my opinion,and if your doing the z brakes,mine as well go five lug while your at it :p .

[AKADriver]

I love the feel of my stock 240SX brakes. It's all in good pads and proper bleeding.

Maybe it's just because my daily driver Mazda has the softest brake pedal evar. :ugh:

Some sort of 11"+ rotor setup is a Very Good Idea for a turbocharged car.

[axiomatik]

It is a common misconception that bigger brakes will produce shorter stopping distances. This is not the case at all. In fact, it will often increase your distances, as sykikchimp testified, if it throws off your brake balance (which is often the case). One set of tires will lock up sooner than before and be harder to modulate, increasing the distances. If you want shorter stopping distances, get better tires. All factory brake setups are more than powerful enough to lock up your tires (For example, when Porsche came out with their ceramic brakes, they bragged that they had ~3000 hp worth of braking power, compare that to 420 hp the 911 Turbo's engine produced. Obviously, this is an extreme example, but it gives you an idea of how much more braking power cars have than engine power).

The benefits for larger brakes are their greater heat capacity and greater ability to dissipate heat. When you drive hard for an extended time, using your brakes a lot, they can get very hot. Hot enough to boil your brake fluid and exceed the optimal operating temps for your pads, causing fade. However, if you are only planning on taking it to the track twice a year, you can most likely get by with better pads and fluid. Really, the question for you is, will your car see hard driving enough to justify the expense or whether good pads and fluid will suffice? (well, there's always the bling to factor in as well)

Also, a full cage is a very bad idea for a daily driven car. If you get into a frontal collision, you'll crack your head open on it. A four point cage should suffice. If you really want a full cage, be sure to pad the bar going across the top of the windshield.

[XXX4life]

thanks, thats the kind of info i was looking for, i keep hearing a full cage isn't good for a dailt driver, but the cage isn't costing me anything and i want it to stiffen the car and part of me wants it cause it will look baller :) so i plan on padding the bars around my head

[Andrew Bohan]

BTW - I had a sr'd 240 making 244hp 252lb/ft


Some sort of 11"+ rotor setup is a Very Good Idea for a turbocharged car.

what are you guys talking about? how much power the car has is totally irrelevant, unless you like you hit the gas and brakes at the same time...

it only matters how fast you're going and how much the car weighs.

[Silverbullet]

if u want something bigger but not go full out with the Z or skyline brakes.. look into JDM Silvia brakes. The rotors and the calipers are larger than the US 240sx's.

[AKADriver]

what are you guys talking about? how much power the car has is totally irrelevant, unless you like you hit the gas and brakes at the same time...

it only matters how fast you're going and how much the car weighs.

How fast you're going before each corner in a performance driving situation is entirely dependent on the power available. Where my car might be going 120 at the end of the front straight at summit point, a car with double the power might be going 150.

[mellojoe]

Infiniti Q45.

2-piston calipers, 11" rotors. And CHEAPER than 300zx conversion. You can use your stock brake lines, if you want to go even cheaper.

[mellojoe]

Another thought:

Just get some agressive pads (EBC, Hawk, Carbotech) and some slotted rotors (I'd stay away from cross drilled) and then get some DOT 5.1 brake fluid. That will be a huge improvement over stock, and not really cost a lot of money.

[96twofourty]

I have the q45's up front and their great...no need for new brake lines and they clear almost all rims

[96twofourty]

he doesnt need dot5.1 fluid...its overkill for anything besides a track car

[Shin_Kudo]

I might as well ask this here.

My car's in the shop for other things at the moment, and while it's in, I'm having the Z brakes done. Unlike many people, I'll actually be using them, as I fully intend to go to every track event I can make it to, and to try to make it to autocross a couple times a month as well.

I've already got the basics worked out, ie pads/lines/rotors/calipers, is there anything else I should be putting on at the same time to improve bias and pedal feel?

[Wei240]

or you can go the cheap route like me, get jdm brakes for front, basically just altima rotors and maxima pads (not 10 buck autozone special crap) for the same year (i think, have to use search)...
they are cheeep, since most people junk it from clips...

[wootwoot]

if your going to be doing mountain runs and such, i would upgrade my brakes...i know everyone here said what will be good enough and i agree they are right, it will. but i like having no doubt that my car will do what i want it to. shit happens ya know? do the q45's, it is damn cheap and better. if your buying new rotors and pads, f it, might as well throw in some remanned calipers.

[Wei240]

I might as well ask this here.

My car's in the shop for other things at the moment, and while it's in, I'm having the Z brakes done. Unlike many people, I'll actually be using them, as I fully intend to go to every track event I can make it to, and to try to make it to autocross a couple times a month as well.

I've already got the basics worked out, ie pads/lines/rotors/calipers, is there anything else I should be putting on at the same time to improve bias and pedal feel?

i don't see you having master cylinder? that might help a bit...

[Wei240]

All I can say is the difference between the Evo and the 240 brakes are night and day. I can run all day at the track and the brakes feel as though nothing had happened

This is with tons of trail braking and 130-132mph blasts down the front straight of Summit Point. There is something to say about a well sorted brakes.

don't see how you can compare evo and 240, i've driven both as well, the whole car/evo is just soo different... night and day,.. not just the brakes...

then again my s13 is/feels sooo damn old, anything is night and day compared to it...

[XXX4life]

do the q45 calipers bolt right up? what year do i need?
thanks

[thx247]

Daily drive a full cage on the street is pretty dangerous. I hit my head on the door the other day just walking and it left a bump. Next time you hit a shallow cobble stone wall you might not make it home.

[RBS14]

Unlike many people, I'll actually be using them, as I fully intend to go to every track event I can make it to, and to try to make it to autocross a couple times a month as well.

well then if you are such a track savvy guy, why is unbolting a brake caliper and bolting up a new one so hard? What are you gonna do when your car breaks on the track? bring your mechanic with you?

[wootwoot]

push your car as far as possible from the track and call AAA =)

[RBS14]

"was I at X race track? no way! there's a race track around here? who woulda thought? I swear, I was just driving down the freeway and my tie rod just broke when I was changing lanes. Must have been one of those reflective lane marker bumps."

hahahaha

[thaiger77]

My brake upgrade is actually the S14 Silvia K's calipers and stock rotors. Which I heard is the same as 300zx non turbo size. Anyway, I love it. To my experience, it does make a big difference. Plus these brake set should have come with the car in the first place along with SR20.

[019]

What sucks about the stockers is that after about 3 hot laps my pedal would be going to the floor and the brakes would start fading. They are just too damn small
only for you bakari, haha. i did as much hot lapping you did at VIR and i didn't have a problem ;) fluid makes a difference.

like mentioned earlier, stay with the stockers for now. throw some nice brake pads and get some good fluid. you'll be fine. my stock brakes have done fine in all the track and autox events i've done.

[XxJaPxOxNeEs23xX]

i went up a canyon thats about 7 miles and back down but on the way back down maybe a quarter way back down my brakes were failing bad. is that usually the brake pads, or is it the fluid. i was pushing the brakes to the floor and it was barly stopping. couldnt slow down on the next turn so i had to use two lanes.

[Shin_Kudo]

well then if you are such a track savvy guy, why is unbolting a brake caliper and bolting up a new one so hard? What are you gonna do when your car breaks on the track? bring your mechanic with you?

I could do it myself no problem. It's just that it's already in the shop anyway, so why not have them do it.

Besides, I'm not that into mechanical work. I'm into driving. Modding my car is just a means of having a better car, not a hobby in itself.

[Dream240]

Okay, here's my .02

I've done the entire brake upgrade on my s14. Fronts, rears, and 17/16 MC.
I did this in intervals. the fronts were first, the rears and the MC came about 2 months later.

Now I did the full upgrade to my stock system BEFORE all this, here's my thoughts.

The bone stock setup really sucks, even for daily driving, worse if you have an auto. The pedal is mushy, braking response is sluggish, and it takes forever to stop!! When I upgraded I went to CD\Slotted brembos all the way around with axxis PBR pads, alot better than stock but the brake fade was awful. I could only do one full stop from 80 - 0 mph and after that the pedal was all mushy. sure it stopped that one time on a dime but still sucked. this was with stock rims and 205/50 toyos.

I then upgraded to Z32 fronts (which are the same brakes as the JDM Silvia ones) with hawks pads and brembo blanks. HUGE difference in pedal-to-car response. Very solid brake feel when slowing down. And in Cali traffic I could do the 50-0 stops all day long!! Then went in the rears and the MC, even better feel and break neck stopping response. Now I upgraded my rims to FN01R-Cs with 235/45 and 255/40 so this did have an impact on my stopping power but the fade simply isn't there anymore. The stopping distance IS SHORTER, I've since changed the fronts to AXXIS ultimates and Brembo CD\Slotted and the stopping is even more jerky in a tight spot on the freeways. I've had my passengers almost hit the windshield when I've had to stop suddenly!! so they really work better. Yeah it costs money mostly for the front upgrade (I paid 500 with SS brake lines) but IMO it's worth it. I haven't even tracked my car yet but just with the daily driven results I know I got my money's worth.

Whew....fingers so....tired..... :)

[Dream240]

Also in reference to the difference to bigger brakes being better. They are. The larger rotor provides a larger friction surface and higher heat tolerances before breaking down. basically compare the two, approx. stock=8 in. to Z32=11 in., big difference. Also your pad preference really matters. Project Mu, Hawk, ultimates (really cheap for the quality BTW), etc are a necessity. Dont' even go with Nissan pads, too much money and not that good.

As far as the upgrade costing alot....just try to find a someone selling the stuff as a kit, parting it out is a last resort you always pay more.

Plus there's other factors in good braking, suspension setups and condition and tire sizes. what else.....hmmm.....I think thats' about it...oh yeah there's always the bling factor, a must for showing off your sweet rims. stock brakes are bleh with nice rims, even when they're painted. hope this helps.

[axiomatik]

If your pedal is getting mushy, then it is your fluid that is to blame. I don't know if you put in better fluid when you upgraded your pads, since you didn't mention it, but that can make a huge difference. Especially if your brake fluid is old, it probably picked up a bunch of moisture, reducing the boiling point considerably (the water will start to boil at 212 degrees, creating a bunch of steam in your brake lines. this gas is easily compressible, hence the 'mushy' feeling). However, when you replaced your calipers, you almost certianly changed the fluid. I am still running the stock setup, and even with lots of canyon driving, I never have a problem with fade. If you hit the brakes, and the pedal feels normal, but takes hella long to stop, then your pads are overheated, that is fade. Then it is time to step up to better pads, or if necessary, bigger brakes.