BMW Transmissions on SR20's

[d9m13n]

Been doing some research lately as to what gearbox I want to run once I finish my P12 head swap/full build on my sr. My goal is 500-700hp (still in early planning stages, running turbo numbers/figuring out what I really want from this) which has got me thinking about what to replace my sr 5 speed with. Obviously there are plenty of options. Lets run through them quickly.

Z32 TT gearbox- 5spd, requires adapter plate, can use sr clutch/flywheel, similar gear ratios to sr box, weight ~140lbs

Z33 gearbox (cd009)-6spd, requires adapter plate/custom bellhousing, can use sr clutch/flywheel, shorter gears, weight ~115lbs

*I didnt include s15 6 speeds or rb25 boxes in this comparison because theyre hard to find in the states and most likely couldnt hold this much power/torque. Obviously they are still options in the real world, but didnt make sense here.
*Needless to say any option is going to require a custom driveshaft and a custom transmission xmember.
*Im not including any comparison/info on speedo correction because I dont know much about it, and its been covered many times before.

Now heres the kicker, doing this research I discovered a couple shops (overseas) that make adapter kits for BMW transmissions. Both 5 and 6 speed zf/getrag boxes are known for holding very high power/torque, theyre pretty plentiful in the states, shift very nicely and quickly, and weigh fairly little. Ill compare the getrag 420g (E46 M3 gearbox) here.

Getrag 420g- 6spd, requires adapter plate, cut and shut bellhousing to relocate starter motor, must use conversion clutch/flywheel, shorter gears than the cd009, weighs ~102lbs.

This was enough to get me interested, one shop in particular has a few solutions to this. http://www.pmcmotorsport.com/swap-solution-nissan-sr20det-adapter-kit-gearbox-bmw.html
Heres another option: http://www.abc-clutch.com/portfolio/sr20-%E2%80%93-bmw-gearbox-adapter-kit
and there are a few others that dont include clutches or flywheels.

These kits seem to be fairly similar in terms of cost to a full cd009 conversion, and carry the same benefits as well as a bit of weight savings. 5 speeds weigh about mid 70lbs, so pretty significant if you sacrifice the 6th gear. Couple things Id like people to weigh in on since I dont know if it would work, but say I wanted to use my os giken twin plate clutch/flywheel setup on the bmw box, since both utilize 240mm clutches could I swap the clutch disks to 240mm disks with the correct bmw input shaft splines and be able to use that setup?
Another maybe stupid thought, would it in theory be possible to use the SMG II gearbox from an e46 m3? It would bolt up to the adapter plate, and there are some standalone ecu's that should be able to control it alongside the SMG's TCU might be a relatively inexpensive route to a sequential gearbox?

Another benefit I can see to using a bmw box is this https://cae-racing.de/CAE-Ultra-Shifter_49
If youve ever had the pleasure of shifting one of these, youll understand the allure. One of the best feeling things in a car hands down.

Its worth noting that Collins has an adapter for these BMW boxes to 1j's and 2j's so those of you running those engine swaps feel free to weigh in also.

[junkyiv]

Subscribed. I've been researching the Getrag/LS combo lately. Good sources here.

[silviaks2nr]

look at the asin solstice/colorado trans and the t56

[TheRealSy90]

Hypotetically you should be able to run the bmw clutch discs in the OsGiken clutch IF the diameter/thickness of the discs are the same, as well as the distance that the shaft splines protrude from each side of the discs.

[RalliartRsX]

I would email them to find out

BUt I would be worried about the proper shift linkage (location). From what I saw, the BMW gearbox is also smaller than the 350Z, so you would need to determine where those adapter plates place the shifting mechanism

What you have listed is the shifter itself (at an ungodly price), but I am not seeing the actual linkage.

[d9m13n]

I would email them to find out

BUt I would be worried about the proper shift linkage (location). From what I saw, the BMW gearbox is also smaller than the 350Z, so you would need to determine where those adapter plates place the shifting mechanism

What you have listed is the shifter itself (at an ungodly price), but I am not seeing the actual linkage.

Its stupid money for the shifter, yes, but theyre stupid nice and the shifter feel is unparalleled. Theres a few other companies that make a similar shifter, IRP being one but I cant vouch for any other than the CAE
https://cae-racing.de/CAE-Gearshift-Rod Theyve got the linkage covered in a few different sizes.

[RalliartRsX]

d9m, In that case, then you pretty much have all the hard parts covered. Driveshaft is easy.

As far as clutch dics are concerned, outside of input spline count and overall diameter, you will also have to determine the individual disc thicknesses, puck placement, etc. to determine if they can indeed be swapped. Chances are not on my first hunch.

As far as the SMg box is concerned, there is whole lot more to the SMg gearbox than paddle shifters, some mounts, etc. You need an ECU for SMG logic control. Most standalone ECUs being used by the Zilvia community do not support such an endeavor. And that's only the beginning of the extensive electronics that are involved with integrating a SMG into any chassis. EG. (not necessarily the SMG but similar transmission). They need wheel angle, TPS, brake pressure and Engine temp to determine shift parameters (timing of shift or to not shift at all, shift lockout, aggressiveness, etc). Its a fairly complex system.

[d9m13n]

As far as the SMg box is concerned, there is whole lot more to the SMg gearbox than paddle shifters, some mounts, etc. You need an ECU for SMG logic control. Most standalone ECUs being used by the Zilvia community do not support such an endeavor. And that's only the beginning of the extensive electronics that are involved with integrating a SMG into any chassis. EG. (not necessarily the SMG but similar transmission). They need wheel angle, TPS, brake pressure and Engine temp to determine shift parameters (timing of shift or to not shift at all, shift lockout, aggressiveness, etc). Its a fairly complex system.

Theres definitely a lot to it, https://www.bimmerscan.com/bmw-e46-smg/ This site actually outlines every single aspect of the electronics the box needs to function. However, the only reason I even deem it a possibility is the fact that theres a shop in the UK that successfully runs the later e90 series DCT box on 2jzs in supras. http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/news/a-world-first-whifbitz-supra-dual-clutch-transmission-conversion/
While this im sure has a ton of propriety programming (not to mention the $4k ecu) it should in theory be simpler with the SMG. Computer tomfoolery to set parameters not dependent on sensors/can communications to only use the most basic shifting and manual control possible? Just spitballing here, but it seems with the right ecu and computer wizardry it wouldnt be so far fetched...

[gills]

The CD009 is more like 130+ lbs without the shifter assembly. The 5 speed ZF is 82lbs with the shifter. Just about a 50lbs weight savings. It's not insignificant and the ZF doesn't have synchros issues to boot.

I've weighed both with a very accurate load cell, but only have a pic of the CD009 being weighed

CD009
https://i.imgur.com/ipXVBHYh.jpg?1

Keep in mind that those ZF transmissions were generally paired with taller final drive ratios compared to Nissan's so don't forget to take that into account.

As for everything else, measure twice, cut once so to speak.

[TheRealSy90]

If you have the money anything is possible. Call up OsGiken and have them build you a clutch with the shaft splines you want.

[jedi03]

sub'd, this is gna be some good info here!

[gaz_moose]

as has been said the BMW gearboxes have much different ratios to the Nissan boxes, so can often ruin your gearing.

the bmw diesel boxes are the most common ones, with the larger shafts. so 330d/530d.

some people say the e46 m3 box is the same as the r34gtr and the v160 supra box.

the rb25 box is the same as the z32 box and some truck things you guys get.
the early 350z box has loads of issues, the later cd09's have better syncros but are real expensive over here as the 350z guys all want them too.
s15 asin 6 speed is made of chocolate and wont like big power for long.its the same as in is200 and mx5.

I went rb25 box as it ws the simplest route but id expect it to blow 3rd at decent power levels.

[d9m13n]

as has been said the BMW gearboxes have much different ratios to the Nissan boxes, so can often ruin your gearing.

the bmw diesel boxes are the most common ones, with the larger shafts. so 330d/530d.

some people say the e46 m3 box is the same as the r34gtr and the v160 supra box.

the rb25 box is the same as the z32 box and some truck things you guys get.
the early 350z box has loads of issues, the later cd09's have better syncros but are real expensive over here as the 350z guys all want them too.
s15 asin 6 speed is made of chocolate and wont like big power for long.its the same as in is200 and mx5.

I went rb25 box as it ws the simplest route but id expect it to blow 3rd at decent power levels.

Interesting, if the getrag boxes are all the same that opens up some interesting bellhousing swap options. The diesel boxes arent as accessible over here in the US so those are pretty much out for us.

Found some pricing for the abc clutch adapter kit which is the best quality/most capable kit it seems. Just the flywheel for the tilton 7.25" clutch and the adapter plate+hardware, as well as the release bearing is about $1700. Depending on clutch options from tilton youre looking at 600-700. Plus the cost of the transmission itself youre in pretty deep. The pmc motorsport setup all in is about $1700 with the twin plate clutch option, significantly cheaper if you go single disk. Looks like the best deal there although im not sure about the durability/reputation of Sachs clutches if anyone can shine some light on that.
Looks like this is the route im going to be taking in the near future, although the deciding factor is going to be the adapter setup. Does anyone have any ideas on how I could get away with using the abc clutch setup but save a few dollars? Seems like theyre drastically overpricing their flywheel and adapter plate but ideally I would like to run the tilton 7.25" clutch as my build is a bit more track oriented.
Any info or speculation is welcome, Im all for some spitballing ideas here!

[brndck]

def an interesting subject, worth investigation.

if I hadn't already sunk a ton of $$$ into cd009, I'd be keen to go this route, if for weight savings and ground clearance alone.

[d9m13n]

Ground clearance is actually something I haven’t thought of yet. Does it become an issue with the cd gearboxes?

[Jorgs_7]

Does it become an issue with the cd gearboxes?

Its the biggest downfall to that transmission swap. If you don't like being banger-low, then you don't need to worry much,
That's why some people still opt for the Z32 swap with SR motor sets.

[d9m13n]

Its the biggest downfall to that transmission swap. If you don't like being banger-low, then you don't need to worry much,
That's why some people still opt for the Z32 swap with SR motor sets.



Anybody have pictures of this to demonstrate? My zf 5 speed on my m3 doesn’t seem like it would pose the same issue but the 6 speeds look like they may

[brndck]

Anybody have pictures of this to demonstrate? My zf 5 speed on my m3 doesn’t seem like it would pose the same issue but the 6 speeds look like they may

stole this from the "everything cd009" thread

For people wondering, here's a shot of the cd009 mated to a 1j with collins kit, in a s13

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29066965_898882710280768_5417237295820290857_n.jpg ?oh=a9f9c4c502672c32ab57af4f33969fff&oe=5B0269BD

It's a little big.

[d9m13n]

That’s lower than the frame rails, no? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180316/01d0445895a83dc5e1aa8b9e09be591e.jpg
This is the 420g 6 speed, still stays low after the bellhousing but doesn’t have the same bulge at the bottom rear like the cd does. Hopefully that means a little bit more clearance but still not amazing. Will have to do some more research

[jumpman2334]

yes. approx. 2 inches. we discussed it in the thread yesterday.


I find it amazing we have all these options for trans (w/ appropriate adapters), yet they all seem to have their +/- quirks about them. cant have your cake and eat it too I suppose...?

[tb13]

Z32 transmission has got the be the best bang for the buck option. Its also probably the easiest to do/fit.

Key points to consider would be:
-Cheap
-Easy to find
-Have been proven to hold 800+hp
-Retains entire SR clutch/flywheel setup
-Retains factory SR starter
-Z32 transmission/alternator harness is easily adaptable
-Doesn't hang below the frame rails
-Adapter plate and shifter re-location are cheap

A little machine work, the right trans cross member and a new driveshaft get you a transmission that is much stronger than the factory one without any real downsides

https://i.imgur.com/RwOBRtNh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2zcOw7Vh.jpg

[d9m13n]

Z32 transmission has got the be the best bang for the buck option. Its also probably the easiest to do/fit.



Key points to consider would be:

-Cheap

-Easy to find

-Have been proven to hold 800+hp

-Retains entire SR clutch/flywheel setup

-Retains factory SR starter

-Z32 transmission/alternator harness is easily adaptable

-Doesn't hang below the frame rails

-Adapter plate and shifter re-location are cheap



A little machine work, the right trans cross member and a new driveshaft get you a transmission that is much stronger than the factory one without any real downsides



https://i.imgur.com/RwOBRtNh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2zcOw7Vh.jpg



I’ve never shifted one, I’ll have to drive a z to find out but shifter feel is big for me. The speed and feel of the bmw boxes is the reason why I’ve gotten so interested. No doubt the z32 Trans is best bang for the buck but are there readily available rebuild kits/aftermarket gearsets for them? These are old transmissions with lots of miles and I’m sure the internals on quite a few are tired. Just like 350zs are becoming better options than 240s in drifting due to low cost/better all around capability and generally lower mileage, maybe it’s time to pass the torch?

[tb13]

I’ve never shifted one, I’ll have to drive a z to find out but shifter feel is big for me. The speed and feel of the bmw boxes is the reason why I’ve gotten so interested. No doubt the z32 Trans is best bang for the buck but are there readily available rebuild kits/aftermarket gearsets for them? These are old transmissions with lots of miles and I’m sure the internals on quite a few are tired. Just like 350zs are becoming better options than 240s in drifting due to low cost/better all around capability and generally lower mileage, maybe it’s time to pass the torch?With fresh fluid and new shifter bushings they are incredible, very smooth and direct. I agree that the Z33 is a better option mechanically speaking due to it being newer, but they just don't fit in an Schassis all that well.

Sent from my OnePlus 5T using Tapatalk

[!Zar!]

look at the asin solstice/colorado trans...

This.

The Aisin AR5 swap has grown popularity in the IS300 community. It's like the newer version of the R154.

Worth looking into in my opinion.

[RalliartRsX]

The weight of the BMW gearbox has me hooked. Hate every moment of hoisting the Z33 without a hoist and a floor gearbox jack

[gills]

The cd009 isn't the lowest point on my s14. Maybe because it's on a VQ instead of an sr? And with shifter kits that do away with the OEM universal linkage you can get away with not, or just barely cutting the tunnel opening.

Also keep in mind that there's a new revision for the cd00x family of transmissions from Nissan called the cd00A which allegedly has further synchronization improvements relative to 009. They can be had for $1700, which is a song for a bnib OEM transmission IMO vs buying a used one for close to a $1000 without really knowing any history. I got one since my 009 6th and 5th synchro are shot. If this 00a doesn't last, I'm making a ZF work on the VQ.

[d9m13n]

The cd009 isn't the lowest point on my s14. Maybe because it's on a VQ instead of an sr? And with shifter kits that do away with the OEM universal linkage you can get away with not, or just barely cutting the tunnel opening.

Also keep in mind that there's a new revision for the cd00x family of transmissions from Nissan called the cd00A which allegedly has further synchronization improvements relative to 009. They can be had for $1700, which is a song for a bnib OEM transmission IMO vs buying a used one for close to a $1000 without really knowing any history. I got one since my 009 6th and 5th synchro are shot. If this 00a doesn't last, I'm making a ZF work on the VQ.

Definitely keep us updated on how the 00a goes. Track abuse info is pretty valuable at least to me. Interesting how those are the synchros that went on your trans, im sure theyre not seeing a ton of use on the track compared to the first four gears. Are they the weakest of the bunch or something? Not very versed on the cd synchro issues besides knowing they exist lol. S13 vs S14 ground clearance might also be an interesting topic of discussion, definitely warrants some digging.

[gills]

Definitely keep us updated on how the 00a goes. Track abuse info is pretty valuable at least to me. Interesting how those are the synchros that went on your trans, im sure theyre not seeing a ton of use on the track compared to the first four gears. Are they the weakest of the bunch or something? Not very versed on the cd synchro issues besides knowing they exist lol. S13 vs S14 ground clearance might also be an interesting topic of discussion, definitely warrants some digging.

Will definitely update. The racing I do is as good a test as any. 9 hours each day of racing on Saturday and Sunday, with a full day of practice/qualifying on Friday before. I tend to post more on www.nissanroadracing.com and have a build thread there, but it's a little dead there nowadays. I intend to post more here.

As for the gears, it's highly dependent on the track, final drive and what your motor can spin up to. For instance at Watkins Glen International, which is a high speed/HP track, a 4.08 final with a 7000 RPM fuel cut VQ I was using only 4-5-6, mostly 5th. Not surprisingly, that's where the 6th gear synchro toasted. Those top gears aren't intended to be shifted into fast and at high rpm. They are cruising gears for the highway like the factory intended.

I put in a 3.69 final to utilize more of the lower gears and avoid 6th and 5th gear synchro took a dump. Can still shift into them, but you either have to double clutch and/or pause for an eternity. Can't have that when I'm trying to drag race E46 M3's up the esses of Watkins.

[Denisko]

Lets continue on the topic. I have found some stuff below.

1. https://www.drive2.ru/l/1127495/
Summary:
transmission from 2004 330 diesel with 135kW
cuts to fit bolt heads on adapter plate.
thickness of adapter plate 13mm.
flywheel and pressure plate from SR but clutch disk from BMW.
driveshaft front piece BMW welded to Nissan back piece

2.https://www.drive2.ru/l/5275482/
Extra photos of process: https://www.drive2.ru/l/478968431731802907/
https://www.drive2.ru/l/4918979/
https://www.drive2.ru/l/486195796539080715/
Summary:
ZF trans from BMW M50B25
single mass flywheel and pressure plate from SR but clutch disk for BMW M50 engines.
to compensate distance between flywheel and trans installed spacer for center support bearing.(trans was cut open to get those measurements)
driveshaft has front piese from bmw with retaining center support bearing because of length (this is not s-chassis though)


what im interested in:

which transmissions available at US junk yards preferably 6 speed. what gear ratios? because if 5 speed than simply z32 trans can be used.

is vehicle speed sensor present on bmw trans or signal comes from abs module?

[d9m13n]

Okay. I want to revive this thread as I've decided to go ahead with doing this on my own build. Im adding some fresh information and will update with my own progress when I can.

First I'd like to make clear that for those of us in the US, our options on transmissions are limited. We really only have access to E46 M3 transmissions. The PMC motorsport and ABC Clutch adapter kits (seem to be the most popular overseas) are compatible with the Getrag 420g (m3 6 speed trans), and the zf s5-39dz (E46/e39 diesel 5 speed gearbox).
The 5 speed gearboxes have very short ratios, making it undesirable for higher hp sr20's as well as street cars (not suited to highway driving). Again, these are geared for low revving, high torque diesel cars. However, they are extremely cheap ($100-$200) and some european sellers will ship to the US.

Lets focus then on the E46 M3 gearbox. It is a 6 speed transmission with gear ratios suited for a low torque, high revving inline 6. That makes it very well suited to the sr20, which shares those attributes. This transmission has 2 versions, manual and SMG. SMG is a semi-automatic, single clutch transmission with hydraulically actuated gear shifting via the use of a sequential style shifter or steering wheel paddles. The SMG gearbox is the same exact Getrag 420g transmission as the traditional 6 speed manual. They key differences are the lack of shift detents and centering spring in the bellhousing of the SMG gearboxes.
This thread illustrates the conversion that specialist shops will be happy to perform for around $500-$600.

I picked up and SMG gearbox for $300, this is an especially low price for these transmissions, but smg boxes are pretty readily available around the 600$ mark. Manual trans' can range anywhere from $1000-$1600. It's not a bad idea to pick up an smg box and have it converted, as there is much less chance it was abused, and the synchros will most likely be in better shape (computer shifting rather than a human banging gears). The synchros in mine are immaculate, even though the previous owner said the mileage on the gearbox is unknown.

Heres the meat and potatoes

This is my transmission on a bathroom scale. 98.8lbs, filled with fluid but minus the slave cylinder.
FOR COMPARISON. The sr20/ka24 5 speed is around 100lbs with fluid.
CD009 is around 130-140.
T56 is around 130-140 as well.

https://i.imgur.com/ebe9PGVl.jpg

Here are some (poor) photos of a test fit in my s13 trans tunnel. Unfortunately my phone died just as I tried to take a photo from directly underneath. I was incredibly surprised to find almost zero fitment issues. This is a 6 speed gearbox thats been known to hold 1000nm of torque, and it essentially slid right in.
The cd009, which is the closest comparison for our purposes, needs the 'U' mount cut and widened, as well as a good bit of tunnel-bashing to fit properly. Even still, it sits below the frame rails and is a major ground clearance issue for most applications.
The 420g here sits comfortably above the frame rails, with plenty of room on either side even at the tunnels skinniest point.
The only real clearance issue I found is that the trans tunnel might need a bit of massaging to get the transmission to sit a little higher. I do not have my sr20 (currently at the machine shop) to test fit and see where the transmission will sit with the engine/adapter kit in the proper place. I dont foresee much interfering with fitment at all. Im amazed at how simple it seems to be.

https://i.imgur.com/hh0swOql.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0a8a318l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wRQa6uBl.jpg

Lastly, I want to talk about how simple fitting a shifter should be (in theory). Ill try to get my hands on a stock m3 shifter to see where it would land in relation to the actual shifter opening on the trans tunnel at some point, but for now all I can do is speculate.
There are quite a few options for chassis mounted shifters for the e46 m3. The way bmw transmissions and shift linkages are set up, you can mount the shifter straight to the body, with the only physical connection to the transmission being the selector rod. Heres an image that displays this a bit better. The former is the oem style (selector rod on bottom, connected to the pivot point of the shifter. The top part is what connects to the body and introduces some play or 'slop' into the shifter via the use of bushings) The bottom photo is the chassis mount style, as you can see its hardmounted to the trans tunnel and connected to the transmission by just the rod. This allows very short, as well as direct and precise shift throws. Many of these shifters incorporate their own lockouts and secondary centering springs making them great and safe (via the decreased possibility of money shifting) for track use. This makes a retrofit into another chassis fairly simple.

https://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplassma/bmw_diy/clutch/clutch_pics/clutch_06_02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/nholmes/E36M/B0911B1E-EB05-4910-A41E-7C9A15D55C34_zpswcooaetg.jpg

One company, CAE (known for their incredible chassis mount shifters) offers a lineup of adjustable length selector rods. This makes a swap like this perfect, as it will allow you to set the shifter where you want and still be able to set the linkage to the perfect length. This will allow us to utilize our trans tunnel hole without modification (besides drilling holes to mount the shifter).
If anyone wants to try mounting up the stock BMW shifter that should be fairly simple as well.

Hopefully this helps open up a new possibility to some of us. ABC Clutch adapter kits are used pretty commonly in Europe by drifters/road racers. They make quality parts, as does PMC motorsport. Ill be using an abc clutch kit, however I have yet to source one. Ill be speaking with them directly soon, as I dont think they have any US distributors. Ill also try to see where I can find their kits the cheapest. PMC is definitely more budget oriented, but still utilizes good proven parts. They both make adapters for these gearboxes to mate up to JZ's, RB's, LS's, and lots of other oddball engines.

Lets see where this goes :2f2f:

[gills]

Great update. Quick update on my CD00A firstly, I've run 4 AER endurance races on this transmission (88 hours racing) and the synchros seem to be ok. At the last race though, the last stint driver reported something with 2nd gear grind leaving the pit, but that could just be heat of the moment type thing. There also seems to be a significant whine that's developed that's proportional to road speed. That's usually diff related, but it's possible it could be something on the output side of the transmission based on a quick ear test when we got home from the race. Car is going under the knife soon....


Back to your post... So why not the 5 speed ZF's from all of E36 (including M3) again? The 5 speed ZF's are basically identical across all E36, including M3, with only minor internal changes AFAIK. There's a ton of them and they all bolt up the same to the M5x/S5x family. The ZF 5 speed also has the same gear ratios as the E46 M3 through 5th gear with the 6th gear just being an over drive. People who road race E36/46 actually prefer the ZF 5 speed because they are more robust.

And, I think I've already mentioned this, but the final drive gear ratios in this family of BMW's are typically lower (taller) relative to anything from Nissan with the exception of the E46 M3, which I think was a 3.46(?) as it was able to get away with that since they reved to ~8200rpm. I guess an SR can achieve that easily. I'm sure you've probably mathed out what would be ideal for you.

Regardless, hugely interested in this to mate up to my VQ. If my CD00A is indeed unhealthy, this may have to happen on my car also. Helps that I have a ZF sitting in my garage staring at me every time I go in there.

[d9m13n]

Thanks for the update on the 00A, especially with the motorsport feedback. Keep us updated with your findings when you drop it out and take a look.

As far as the weirdness that is gearbox compatibility on these kits, Ive got some info but not much. Still doing some research into it to see what the differences are.
These are the ratios for the diesel boxes:
1st gear: 5,24:1
2nd gear: 2,92:1
3rd gear: 1,82:1
4th gear: 1,27:1
5th gear: 1,00:1

And the ratios for the non-diesel boxes:
1 2 3 4 5
4.21 2.49 1.67 1.24 1.0
(sorry for the weird copy-paste formatting for both)

As you can see, the diesel boxes have much shorter gearing. Did some calculating and that left me at 62mph in 5th at 7000rpm (3.5 rear end). 1st through 3rd would pretty much be a blitz and the highway would, well, suck.

I dont see why the rest of the zf family of 5 speeds from the e36/e46 generations would not work and are not mentioned as compatible by either abc clutch or PMC. From my research, it seems that they share the same 10 spline input shaft and bellhousing bolt pattern. Possibly they have lower torque ratings and neither adapter company recommends them as these are mainly drivetrain solutions for very high hp/tq applications? I can email both companies to see I suppose. Would be helpful to have cheap options on hand as spares, would also be helpful for either company if they were to move into the us market.

[gills]

Thanks for the update on the 00A, especially with the motorsport feedback. Keep us updated with your findings when you drop it out and take a look.

As far as the weirdness that is gearbox compatibility on these kits, Ive got some info but not much. Still doing some research into it to see what the differences are.
These are the ratios for the diesel boxes:
1st gear: 5,24:1
2nd gear: 2,92:1
3rd gear: 1,82:1
4th gear: 1,27:1
5th gear: 1,00:1

And the ratios for the non-diesel boxes:
1 2 3 4 5
4.21 2.49 1.67 1.24 1.0
(sorry for the weird copy-paste formatting for both)

As you can see, the diesel boxes have much shorter gearing. Did some calculating and that left me at 62mph in 5th at 7000rpm (3.5 rear end). 1st through 3rd would pretty much be a blitz and the highway would, well, suck.

I dont see why the rest of the zf family of 5 speeds from the e36/e46 generations would not work and are not mentioned as compatible by either abc clutch or PMC. From my research, it seems that they share the same 10 spline input shaft and bellhousing bolt pattern. Possibly they have lower torque ratings and neither adapter company recommends them as these are mainly drivetrain solutions for very high hp/tq applications? I can email both companies to see I suppose. Would be helpful to have cheap options on hand as spares, would also be helpful for either company if they were to move into the us market.


Definitely not torque limited. The 5 speed ZF is known to be more robust than the 6 speed E46 M3 and is preferred by people who road race E36/E46 chassis (which is what I predominantly race against).

All the transmissions used on the M5x/S5x family of engines should all bolt up to the same.

Sorry if I'm missing something in your thread, but aren't these basically what we're talking about?:

http://www.pmcmotorsport.com/gearbox-adapter-nissan-sr-bmw-m50-m57-gearbox.html

http://www.pmcmotorsport.com/flywheel-nissan-sr-bmw-m50-m57-gearbox.html

[d9m13n]

Huh, actually no, I hadnt seen that offering from PMC. This is what Ive been looking at on their site
http://pmcmotorsport.com/nissan-sr-sr20det-conversion-tilton-adapter-gearbox-swap.html

The link you posted is only the adapter, no flywheel or clutch. It also has the disclaimer that you need a custom flywheel to use any of those gearboxes.
The kits that have a flywheel and clutch are restricted to those couple gearboxes that I was talking about before. This really doesn't clear anything up, rather makes it more confusing. I wonder if the difference lies in input shaft length or something and thats why the flywheel selection is restrictive? Possibly the input shafts sit in the crank pilot bearing on some trans' where the input shaft on the 420g/diesel boxes sit in the flywheel spigot bearing when used with the sr?
No idea if thats true, just speculating.

[gills]

Click the second link in my post. It's a flywheel for BMW M50 M52 M54 S50 S52 S54 M57 (transmissions) to SR20DET.

Then information for the clutch from the flywheel link:

Matching clutch kit:

"For diesel gearbox - single disc 240mm z BMW E39 / E38 / E39 M57D30 diesel and E46 M3

Sachs Performance 88 308 200 1242 and disc dedicate to the gearbox
Sachs 3000 951 877
BMW 7528209
BMW 21217528209
LUK 624329600

For petrol gearbox - pressure plate Sachs Performance 88 308 200 1243 / Sachs 3000 951 877 and disc dedicate to gearbox model


So, not sure exactly why they don't offer the complete kit..

[d9m13n]

Click the second link in my post. It's a flywheel for BMW M50 M52 M54 S50 S52 S54 M57 (transmissions) to SR20DET.

Then information for the clutch from the flywheel link:

Matching clutch kit:

"For diesel gearbox - single disc 240mm z BMW E39 / E38 / E39 M57D30 diesel and E46 M3

Sachs Performance 88 308 200 1242 and disc dedicate to the gearbox
Sachs 3000 951 877
BMW 7528209
BMW 21217528209
LUK 624329600

For petrol gearbox - pressure plate Sachs Performance 88 308 200 1243 / Sachs 3000 951 877 and disc dedicate to gearbox model


So, not sure exactly why they don't offer the complete kit..

Weird, but very cool. Opens up a huge amount more possibilities for those of us in the US. It also means that you can do this conversion FAR cheaper and easier than you can do a cd009.
Very good info there that I somehow missed entirely :facepalm:

[gills]

Hey man, that's what we come here for. Share, learn, rejoice! :2f2f:

I love that you're doing this though. It's been on my mind for my S14 VQ for at least 2 years. You won't be disappointed. All the BMW's I race against rarely have transmission issues. And there's a lot of them racing. Maybe not making quite the power as huge turbo builds, but in terms of repeated high rpm shifting, they can take it.

[slider2828]

Just catching up on this, so what is left is for the transmission mount and transmission cross member to be fabbed to fit an SR20? w

[d9m13n]

Just catching up on this, so what is left is for the transmission mount and transmission cross member to be fabbed to fit an SR20? w



Pretty much, yes. Where I had the trans positioned the mounts on the trans lined up pretty well horizontally with the trans mount holes on the chassis. I’ll have to find my 5 speed mount to see if it can be used but I’m not sure I still have it. That’s something I need my block back to really figure out though

[slider2828]

sweet! did you see speed society use also the bmw tranny with a k24 engine in an s14.... Couldn't believe it when I saw it.

Can't wait to see your progress!

[d9m13n]

Didnt know about their build until now, that looks like it'll be a really fun setup.
Im familiar (somewhat) with the kmiata adapter kits as Tommy Farrell (Tommyfyeah on yt) used one not too long ago. Seems to be a bit of a different style from the abc/pmc kits but still very cool nonetheless.

Looking at the speed academy build, Im seeing some extremely useful photos. Firstly, they have no issues with the trans tunnel fitment. (note, this is an s14 with a k24 swap, but still useful to see for our purposes here) Their custom transmission mount is, in essence, a lightly modified oem crossmember. Im hoping I can do something very similar, utilizing the stock xmember with solid mounts turned on a lathe rather than the rubber they're using. Solid trans mounts are also a very good idea with a chassis mount shifter, again what Ill be using in my build.

http://speed.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Nissan-240SX-S14-Honda-K24-Swap-Part1-69.jpg

https://speed.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Nissan-240SX-S14-Honda-K24-Swap-Part1-77.jpg

https://speed.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Nissan-240SX-S14-Honda-K24-Swap-Part1-132.jpg

https://speed.academy/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Nissan-240SX-S14-Honda-K24-Swap-Part1-120.jpg

This gives me still more hope for how easy this could end up being moving forward. Looks like most of the big question marks from my original post speculating this swap a year ago have been answered with very simple solutions. Hopefully all goes as well as it looks like it should!

[slider2828]

I am so glad I could contribute a little. I've been following their build, so its pretty interesting and they said the same thing. They got their transmission with unknown mileage for like 250 to 300 CAD. They also talk about shifter linkeage and kmiata helped them out for that. But they said pretty straight forward for the tranny.

I really hope this turns out to be a good alternative to CD009....

[slider2828]

Lol speak of the devil, look what they do in poland with BMW tranny

https://youtu.be/z3M-HZkjjPs?t=907

[d9m13n]

BIG UPDATE for those of you still following this thread.

Took the leap and dropped ~$2500 on the ABC clutch kit. Balled out and got the triple plate clutch option. Really impressed with the quality of everything, the adapter plate and flywheel are very nicely machined. Throwout bearing as well. Obviously the tilton clutch assembly is perfect, as to be expected from a company with such a good reputation in the racing industry.
Flywheel weighs in at 12.6lbs, clutch assembly around 7. Thats about the weight of a stock sr flywheel on its own, and with the much tighter center of mass it should rev nice and quick. Hopefully the triple metallic discs are driveable on the street.
https://i.imgur.com/92TJz8Cl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QgTmSonl.jpg


fitment

Fitment on the adapter plate was excellent. Lined up perfectly with my block, hardware is nice. Only one of the bolts was unable to be tightened all the way because the adapter plate interferes with getting a socket or a wrench on. Nothing a little clearancing wouldnt fix.
https://i.imgur.com/wXWgeWol.jpg

There are dowels on the adapter plate on the transmission side. Very nice touch and very much appreciated to align the transmission right the first time. Fitment again was perfect. There are only 7 bolts that hold the transmission to the sr20, which im a little skeptical of, but the bellhousing only has 9 holes so i dont see it ever causing an issue.

https://i.imgur.com/6kqFY30l.jpg

The bellhousing will need to be machined or cut for the starter unfortunately. Shouldnt need to be cut by much, in fact it may only need to be clearanced a bit. Ill look into this more when my actual engine is finished and I can get the flywheel on.
https://i.imgur.com/0zd8IqXl.jpg


the good stuff!

The transmission fits in the s13 tunnel like a glove. Seriously. Its like the thing was made for the damn car. Im actually still a little bit surprised by it. No clearancing needed anywhere. Theres miles of space from side to side (looking at you cd009), and from what i can tell it gets a little tight on top but nothing crazy. It sits pretty comfortably above the frame rails. Ran a broomstick across the rails and the only thing that hit was the drain plug, which was only on a thread or two. Everything else is about an inch above the rails.
The holes for transmission mounts on the transmission line up pretty perfectly with the holes on the chassis. Ill try to get something rudimentary fabbed up to see how it looks, but in theory it should be very easy to get a strong mount put in there.

https://i.imgur.com/ozu30UPl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RZHd0tol.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Js1RKeul.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wXlw99pl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7KoG3Z4l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/M6TAGNRl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xf6zNwIl.jpg


Overall, Im extremely happy with my choice to go this route. A bit expensive, a bit undocumented, but really a fantastic choice for anyone with an sr, or a jz or rb for that matter that need to hold more power. I see less difficulty and minimal additional cost compared to a cd series transmission. Let me know what you guys think and ill keep updating as I get things like the driveshaft, shifter, starter, and trans mount done.

[slider2828]

Wow that looks awesome. That tranny looks huge in the tunnel. Does it hang really low?

[d9m13n]

Considering with a cd009 you have to cut the “u” bracket in the tunnel as well as bash it out, it’s actually very small in the tunnel. Hangs higher than a cd009 would. About an inch to an inch and a half over the frame rails

[brndck]

fuck. anyone wanna buy a cd009 setup? this is looking more and more like a better option than z33 trans

[gills]

Very nice progress!! Definitely keep updating this thread please.

[Kingtal0n]

I See you put the trans in the tunnel at *some height* and measured from the rails etc...

However, I don't think you can just put the trans wherever you want. The IRS of 240sx demands an equal and opposite pinion angle, and that means there will be only 1 exact position for the tailshaft of the transmission, which needs to be found using some technique (laser/gauge), that is, you can't just prop the trans up anywhere you want and call it good.

When I put the 4l80e into a 240sx I thought the same thing. I put the trans up against the tunnel 'roof' and said "HMM It fits fine like this" and even went so far to make mounts and called it 'good'. The next day I realized I was about -5* when I should have been about -2* and that meant some 2" additional height was needed on the tail shaft, I had to cut the trans tunnel and bash it like crazy to get that trans high enough. And you couldn't tell by just looking at it from underneath that it needed to be raised.

The consequences of having poor pinion angle I believe are some of the worst custom-car consequences ever known to our hobby (vibrations, parts wear, undriveable)
There may be some trick with using the OEM 2-piece driveshaft hanger to fix this, but I wasn't able to figure anything with that out. Instead I used a 1-piece.

[RalliartRsX]

As much as King annoys me (lol) from time to time with his posts, he is absolutely correct.

However, the process is actually fairly easy. Once the gearbox is mounted to the engine, put the driveshaft in and bolt it to the diff and use a jack to get all the drivetrain angles. Just use a $30 digital angle finder from HF and you are good to go (unless you want to use a protractor......)

Ideally it should all be within 1 degree (positive or negative relative) to one another. 3-4 degrees is the upper ceiling. Beyond that, you will get a nasty vibration at speed as the driveshaft, input shaft and pinion spin at different speeds.

Use this calculator below

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/driveline-operating-angle-calculator

[d9m13n]

Thanks for the info guys, I planned on doing more research into how everything should sit before i finalized mounts, but this was more eye opening than I expected. The one downfall with the BMW trans are they dont use a slip yoke, rather a guibo bushing.

This leaves me unsure what to do. I see a lot of negative feedback from M3 guys on running a one piece driveshaft. The harmonics dont work in the real world even though on paper it should be fine. The lack of a slip yoke im assuming has something to do with it. Im running solid bushings/mounts all around, so im not sure if it would have the same effect but I dont want to drop a ton of money on a driveshaft that takes the nvh to a crazy level.

Did some digging and there seems to be a simple solution outlined here. Implementing the slip yoke on the shaft itself. Looks like this is going to be what I have to do.

https://www.proshaftllc.com/blogs/news/bmw-e36-custom-conversion-drive-shaft

Ralliart and King, how should I go about finding the angle without a driveshaft? Or should I be able to measure from my diff to where the trans sits right now and order the driveshaft, since the minute differences in length when finalizing angle can be accounted for in the slip yoke.

[RalliartRsX]

The driveshaft will have a flange at the rear which allows some articular in 2 dimensions (or should). Order the correct length and then make your mounts with the driveshaft in place keeping I mind the drivetrain angles. Independent rear suspension is just that; the rear suspension moves independently of the chassis. This also goes for the diff. However, the diff sees a small amount of deflection during acceleration so although fully independent, it does not operate fully independent.

The only other way to measure pinion height is relative to the ground. However, unless you have a specific alignment table with a perfectly flat ground, your results will be skewed.

Its all relative in terms of the driveshaft. Read some more on the spicer link I provided on how they go about determining driveshaft angles.

[d9m13n]

Read some more on the spicer link I provided on how they go about determining driveshaft angles.

Theres a big "i" that i didnt click and thought it was only the calculator. Now its much more helpful, lol.

Guess ill get a driveshaft ordered up and get everything worked out. If I can find any other way to figure out the angles (even in a rudimentary way) just to see if the tunnel needs modification before then, Ill update the thread accordingly.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Subscribing because I'm interested in seeing the long term results. I went with a brand new R34 RB25DET gearbox for my SR, but if for some reason it doesn't work out, I'd like to know my other options. I'd be interested in the E36 5 spd gearbox.

[battery1882]

Interesting..

I'm in the process of this swap.. or actually 420g swap. I'll try to update my findings.

[d9m13n]

Interesting..



I'm in the process of this swap.. or actually 420g swap. I'll try to update my findings.



I’m using a 420g, interested to see what you’re doing for your own swap though

[battery1882]

I’m using a 420g, interested to see what you’re doing for your own swap though

for sure! I'll update once I iron out the details. so far, pmc adapter/flywheel

[Darkcr3w]

Great work, i'll be following this thread. Will love to see this all together and finished.

[TheRealSy90]

Any progress from anybody?

[d9m13n]

Any progress from anybody?

Should be able to final mount my diff in the next couple of days to measure for a driveshaft and get it made so trans mounts can follow.
Been spending way too much time on little things and trying to sell my skyline to free up some funds to finish my build.

[battery1882]

Any progress from anybody?

I was really excited to try this out but went different route with my car. I have the conversion kit for sale if anyone in interested!

[d9m13n]

Oh boy, sorry its been a while since Ive updated. Finally started getting some things in order and some solid contributions to the thread.

My SR20vet engine is in at last. With it, the getrag 420g is mated up to it and sitting nicely in the trans tunnel. I purchased a chassis mount shifter from Coolerworx, which aesthetically is a beautiful piece and has good feedback from the BMW community. Very happy with the quality, and it sits nicely in the s13 center console trim. It also incorporates a reverse lockout and a centering spring which helps a TON if you, like me, opt to use an M3 SMG gearbox. These operate as a regular manual gearbox, however the bellhousing doesnt have the detents and centering springs in it that help you find gears and neutral like on a regular manual box. From the install and first few shifts, I dont think ill need to change the bellhousing and I am happy with how the shifter makes up for these features on its own.
I went with the CAE adjustable dual shear selector rod like I planned on doing from the outset. It is very expensive for what it is, and I wasnt as happy with the quality as I was hoping. The shifter end wouldnt fit over the receiver on the shifter, the clearance was too tight. I had to shave down the inside of the rod until it would slip on, which wasnt a pleasant experience working with already thin aluminum. The clearance for the pin that holds the rod onto the shifter was also too small. The pin would only fit using excessive force. I suspect the powder coating was too thick and not accounted for. Easy enough to sand the hole and that solved it. Ultimately, with these pieces its better to have a tight fit than a loose fit and have unnecessary slop in the shifting assembly, so its not the end of the world.

https://i.imgur.com/feu5geem.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PPNKE1Gl.jpg



Now for some real progress! Mounting the shifter was really easy. I flattened the top of the OE shifter hole and welded a plate onto the top of the trans tunnel to cover it and start from scratch.
https://i.imgur.com/u75e2Bpm.jpg

It was simple enough to measure where to drill the mounting holes, and I used a 2inch holesaw to make the hole for the shifter. The shifter is made to be mounted either forwards or backwards, and I initally wanted to mount it with the centering spring side forward and the shifter itself closer to me, but had a massive lapse and ended up drilling the shifter hole the complete opposite way I intended. Not a big deal, the shifter should still be within reach but I may end up redoing it if it ends up being too far away. :bash::bash:
I wish I could post a video here, because the shifts are ridiculously tight. Like C's short throw cut in half. Its ridiculous. Feels great, direct, and confidence inspiring. It honestly doesnt feel like you move the shifter much at all. Coupled with an incredibly satisfying and mechanical 'clunk' every time you engage a gear, Im in love.

https://i.imgur.com/c2H2U5Kh.jpg

Finally, I also have my driveshaft and my drivetrain in place. The driveshaft came from Shaftmasters, and the turnaround time was only 3 days or so. I had it within a week of ordering, very happy with that. The specs are 3inch aluminum, 50 inches long with an integrated slip yoke. Total weight came in at a touch over 9lbs. Featherweight. I had to purchase an adapter for the BMW output flange, which is a weird 3 bolt flange. This one from Autosports engineering did the trick. Good quality, lightweight, simple piece that came with all hardware and everything.

https://i.imgur.com/l25jhnam.jpg

So now comes the fun part of making the transmission mount. The mounts on the gearbox, like I said before, line up nicely with the OEM mounting points on the chassis, so construction will be relatively easy. That being said, it looks like I do need to work on the angles a bit. Although, I am a lot closer than I thought I would be, and a lot closer than King was from what he mentioned above, lol.

https://i.imgur.com/tbXbbvYl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6e8bCsbl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5rjurabl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dyJkcPbl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/m9v53fNl.png

Looks like I need to raise the transmission .4 degrees or more to get closer to that 1 degree or less of total difference. King or ralliart, please let me know if im doing this correctly or made a mistake anywhere. From what I can tell, Im very close but need to do a little work to get within that 1 degree. As the transmission sits, it is very close to the roof of the tunnel, but only at one point where there is an oem support on the chassis that hangs lower than the rest of the sheet metal.

https://i.imgur.com/7KoG3Z4l.jpg

Those 'prongs' on the top of the transmission are no longer needed with a chassis mount shifter. They can be shaved or removed and I should have all the clearance I need, as that is the problem area. Either I do that, or I can machine down my gktech solid motor mounts and drop the engine a touch lower to achieve the same effect. Ill decide what to do this week and begin making the trans mount on thursday hopefully.

Overall, Im happy everything has been relatively simple and straightforward. Ive gone the expensive route at every turn, but everything that Ive done can be done MUCH cheaper. Driveshaft wise, shifter wise, adapter kit wise, etc. etc. Lots of money to be saved compared to my exact setup, but Im just happy to finally have a drivetrain in my car after 2 years.

[splitfire]

The driveshaft came from Shaftmasters, and the turnaround time was only 3 days or so. I had it within a week of ordering, very happy with that. The specs are 3inch aluminum, 50 inches long with an integrated slip yoke.


Could you post a photo of integrated slip yoke?

[d9m13n]

Could you post a photo of integrated slip yoke?



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190925/86c614a06ecfa9372187f8026e66c6e8.jpg

[splitfire]

On the left side of picture under the dust boot, is it correct?

[d9m13n]

On the left side of picture under the dust boot, is it correct?



Yessir. Not sure how much give it has, feels like about an inch. But it’s very nice and moves smoothly

[speedingmofa]

I'm also very interested in this swap, specially because I'm in Europe where there is an abundance of BMW boxes.
But one look at bmw ratio's, and it's pretty clear most of them are way too short for our diff ratio's. I've already got the lowest diff ratio at 3.69.
The stock SR 5 speed ratio is at 3.32, 1.9, 1.3, 1.0, 0.76
The lowest ratio manual box (E90/E92 335i) is at 4.0, 2.4, 1.6, 1.2, 1.0 , 0.85 (source http://www.bokchoys.com/differential/GearRatios.htm), but i'm not sure if that's still an M50-M57 gearbox..
And the E46 M3 6 spd starting at 4.2 is waaay too short... Mine is still a street car after all, and I'd hate to be doing 60mph at 3500rpm

Though I'm in Europe, i think it's still not easy to come by an M3 manual box, as it's going to have the "M" price tag attached to it...

Just sharing some of my thoughts.
Other than that, the fit seems pretty good and it's relatively easy to get the shifter in the right position. All conversions need custom driveshafts, but that's probably the easier part of the conversion. I guess those going after this conversion are for mostly for drifting purposes?

Edit: i had the damn ratio's mixed up, auto have way lower gearratio's

[gaz_moose]

im pretty confident the 5 speed e36 m3 box Is the same as the 5 speed 328i e36.

[shirunai]

I have a gs6-37dz 6speed 320d diesel gearbox on my sr20det.
Personally I think it was a nightmare to install since it was not alot of information out there.
When installed its awsome at drifting, just shift between 4th and 3rd and I use a aftermarket coolworx shifter.

https://www.speeding.nu/thumb/4456/1280x0/coolerworx-spakstall-svart.jpg

[d9m13n]

Do you have photos of your transmission mount? I’m just finishing mine up but would like to see what others have done

[shirunai]

Do you have photos of your transmission mount? I’m just finishing mine up but would like to see what others have done

my friends mount, mine is even bigger
https://ibb.co/mT3KwNW
https://ibb.co/0sm95M6

[shirunai]

https://ibb.co/B4kxpnH
https://ibb.co/XkWRwbv

this is mine i am not Proud :(

[shirunai]

d9m13n

how did u solve the pilotbearing?

[d9m13n]

d9m13n



how did u solve the pilotbearing?



On the abc clutch kit the pilot bearing is integrated into the flywheel

[nieko]

Hey guys, not sure if anyone is still in progress with this. I just wanted to say this thread was incredibly helpful...

I managed to pull this off in 12 days including sourcing, researching, etc. I can honestly say it's a very simple swap and everything is pretty much bolt on.

This is one of my favorite things I've ever done to my car.... absolutely 0 regrets. I run this on my 450hp SR20VE with a 4.1 FD and it's absolutely perfect. It's almost impossible to grind a gear, even shifting at very high RPM. Unless you're seriously just doing something wrong.

Few small things I did differently than above.

- Instead of the adjustable DSSR, I ended up getting the Garagistic Z3 one, which is WAY too long and had someone shorten it for me. (stainless rod).

- Got a steel 1 piece integrated driveshaft. The driveshaft shop I spoke to mentioned the aluminum driveshafts he's seen with integrated yokes don't end up lasting long. (idk if this is actually true..., but this was cheaper too)

Anways, I created a GoogleSheet as I was doing research to keep track of what I needed to order/source still and realized it ended up almost being a write-up in itself, haha.

Feel free to check it out and PM on IG with any questions you may have (@niekotheboss @driftteamhammertime)! I would say PM here but I don't lurk Zilvia too much anymore.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10WdQ4IgzN3faL4Xp6FlDwv-SSUCzq4CHPRlAXijKiAI/edit#gid=0

Hope this helps!

[PoorMans180SX]

Thanks for posting that sheet nieko.

[RalliartRsX]

Don't think I ever responded Jake sorry :(. Next time just DM me :)

If you are at or less than 3 degrees total angle, you should be set!

I am only revisiting this as I am wanting to dump my entire VET drivetrain into a E36 or E46 chassis ;)

[TheRealSy90]

So what is THE transmission to use that doesn't have absurdly low gear ratios? I'd want to keep the 4.08 final. Something close to the cd009 gear ratios would be nice because I actually like those gears behind the sr20... Maybe a little taller?

[RalliartRsX]

The 5 Getrag and 420G (6 speed) have surprisingly VERY close ratios to the CD009 actually. Actually, most of the BMW 5 speeds and 6 speeds share the exact same gear ration apart from an added cog for 6th.

[brndck]

just a bit of maybe useful info, but this is a PDF with all the part numbers for ZF S5-31 transmissions. might come in handy for someone

http://www.bilar.co.uk/saabenstein/documents/gearbox/zfS531.pdf

[Yellow4g63]

Anyone fitted the GS7D36SG into a S13/S14 yet?

[Yellow4g63]

Sorry I put the wrong gear box code down. I fixed it with a edit. The 08 M3 7 speed DCT gear box.

[SE-Rawkus]

Sorry I put the wrong gear box code down. I fixed it with a edit. The 08 M3 7 speed DCT gear box.

I?m going with 2016 M3/M4 DCT Box with my VET. #GS7D36SG

I have the box & adapter to mate it to the engine.

[gills]

I?m going with 2016 M3/M4 DCT Box with my VET. #GS7D36SG

I have the box & adapter to mate it to the engine.

Do you have a build thread or info?

[Yellow4g63]

I did end up picking up a 08 M3 dct. Going to buy the adapter stuff early next year.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50849049657_c862eba65c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ktmEUH)M3 DCT (https://flic.kr/p/2ktmEUH) by Andwele Hall (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150014140@N05/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50849049587_cb98ea20ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ktmETv)M3 DCT (https://flic.kr/p/2ktmETv) by Andwele Hall (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150014140@N05/), on Flickr

[SE-Rawkus]

Do you have a build thread or info?

I haven?t started a build thread. But you can follow me on IG (mfreshs14). I?ve posted a few ?build? items there.

[mothon]

What are you guys doing about the final drive? The six speed bmw's use a 3.08 final drive. For a street car I would want final drive as close to stock as possible.

What are our options?

[Yellow4g63]

I'm personally going to run the 350/370z auto rear end. It's not as low but it will be better than the 4.0 r200.

[brndck]

I'm personally going to run the 350/370z auto rear end. It's not as low but it will be better than the 4.0 r200.

z33 auto is 3.3 iirc.
if you want taller, y34 is 3.1

also FYI normal 2way LSD does not fit z33 auto diff, since the ring gear is offset compared to manual trans z33 diff. OS Giken does make a LSD that fits z33 auto, but afaik kaaz and most other diff manufacturers do not offer one that fits z33 auto diff.

[RalliartRsX]

What are you guys doing about the final drive? The six speed bmw's use a 3.08 final drive. For a street car I would want final drive as close to stock as possible.

What are our options?

You need to also consider gear ratio. There's a good chance the dct with 7 gears have enough as a different gear spread where going with a 3.9 or similar will literally deem the first 3 gears useless.

[SE-Rawkus]

The gear ratios from the F80 (M3/M4):
1. 4.806
2. 2.593
3. 1.701
4. 1.277
5. 1.000
6. 0.844
7. 0.671

I?m pairing it with a Q45 (3.54) diff.

[RalliartRsX]

So 1st would be useless with a 3.92....or anything shorter than a 3.43 or something. 6 and 7 would be an overdrive regardless. The rest seem to fall in line with the cd009 ratio

[Yellow4g63]

You need to also consider gear ratio. There's a good chance the dct with 7 gears have enough as a different gear spread where going with a 3.9 or similar will literally deem the first 3 gears useless.

Wow that sucks. Now I have to do some gear ratio calculations.

[PoorMans180SX]

z33 auto is 3.3 iirc.
if you want taller, y34 is 3.1

also FYI normal 2way LSD does not fit z33 auto diff, since the ring gear is offset compared to manual trans z33 diff. OS Giken does make a LSD that fits z33 auto, but afaik kaaz and most other diff manufacturers do not offer one that fits z33 auto diff.

Nissan Pathfinder rear diffs are 3.13.
Nissan Armada/QX56 rear diffs vary came in 3.36 and 2.94 ratios as well.

[gills]

Or, add 1000 rpm to your engine speed :)

[Yellow4g63]

E9x M3 DCT Gear Ratios E92 V8

1st - 4.780
2nd - 3.056
3rd - 2.153
4th - 1.678
5th - 1.390
6th - 1.203
7th - 1.000

with a 3.33 auto final drive on 255/40-17 tires

8500RPM 39.77 62.2 88.29 113.28 136.7 158.01 190.08
RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th

with the 3.54 same tires
8500RPM 37.41 58.51 83.05 106.56 128.64 148.64 178.81
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th

With a 3.13
8500RPM 42.31 66.18 93.93 120.52 145.49 168.11 202.23
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th

Can't format it right for the forum

[thom]

Hi guys,

I just finished with this swap which took me maybe more than 1 month since i did everything all alone at my parking spot .

Parts i purchased:

GS6-53DZ gearbox
Pmc gearbox adapter plate + flywheel
Pmc chassis mount shifter
Flex plate from auto sr20
Sachs oem clutch
Gearbox seals

Everything else was custom made by me. ( except the driveshaft)

Process i can say was pretty straight forward but i had some issues ( i still have).

The spot

https://i.imgur.com/DRDYvRp.png


Adapter plate on . I believe no one has mentioned that now you can't remove starter without having to remove the gearbox.

https://i.imgur.com/mC4sqHf.png

Gearbox on .

https://i.imgur.com/wS4LqKM.png
https://i.imgur.com/gXAAys5.png


Took me maybe half an hour to align and install it , most difficult part was to put the damn gearbox on the floor jack.



Then when raising it i realized that the gearbox touches the firewall. :picardfp:

Removing it and bang the firewall was not an option so i placed some small pieces of wood between the firewall and the gearbox and started to raise it slowly and carefully .:bigok:
You could hear the 30 year old metal bend very easily. :spank: Didnt really need a lot to be honest.

Also the 2 top gearbox allen bolts took me i don't even now how many hours since there was absolutely no space to put any tool and torque them down.

https://i.imgur.com/YkWQlF1.png

https://i.imgur.com/ANgan1c.png

https://i.imgur.com/fXtYkrb.png

After that it was time for the gearbox mount which may look super ugly but i believe it does the job.

https://i.imgur.com/PnDKDPR.png

Ugly also but stiff selector rod. This one i may order it to be cnc cut because i dont believe its welded 100% straight .

https://i.imgur.com/pFyQBij.png

For shifter i chose the shortest option that was available because i dont really like those long ones.

https://i.imgur.com/KN3p9My.png


For driveshaft i used the original one with adding a 3 bolt flange and i didnt use the bmw rubber coupling. I didnt take a photo of that.:-/

After installing everything and thinking i am done , the real nightmare begins.

Clutch bleeding = impossible.

Clutch would only engage half and gears didnt go in. Pedal would start to feel stiff only after 40% of the total travel.

I then changed the slave cylinder which was new and thought maybe its defective, and also removed the rubber clutch line and made a stainless steel one.

Did manage to bleed the system , no air coming out all, but still the pedal didnt have the best feel.

The last option that did the job( still not 100%) was to adjust the master cylinder rod that goes on the pedal so it pushes a little more fluid on the system.

I believe the problem is the clutch bearing position and clutch is not pushed 100%.

Pmc says to use the 28.5mm but in my situation i think the 33mm position would work better?
I have emailed them but no reply so i dont know.

https://i.imgur.com/umoUcw5.png


Anyway today was the first ride which didnt go as planned and i need your opinion- help.

Gearbox makes a terrible sound which i did notice when i first started the car when was on jack stands and thought it will go away when i install the driveshaft etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf_VHvrCMiM

When driving its sounds very bad when decelerating with gear in. :down:

Any help would be appreciated.

*update*

Looks like i'm experiencing harsh gearset rattle on deceleration, and certain RPM's where the engine NVH is at its worst. After doing some research it seems that some people have this issue after installing lightweight single mass flywheels in their bmw's.

I assume having no rubber guibos on the driveshaft , in combination with how rigidly I have the transmission mounted to the chassis is going to cause some unwanted NVH from the GS6-53dz transmission.

Bmw guys suggest changing the fluid , a mix of 75w140 with atf which i wait to be delivered and see how it goes. Also i think to remove the polybush gear mount and put some normal rubber mounts .

Haven't push the car yet since im trying to break in the clutch and figure out these noises but in general gearbox feels amazing. The gear changes are so smooth.

The only issue is that its very short because i have a 4.36 diff. 1st gear is like it doesnt exist , i dont even use it.

I'll put the old 3.9 crown wheel i have next week and i hope it will be better.

[cured13]

any updates on this?

[thom]

At the moment i have given my kazz diff case to a guy to install a 3.69 fd which i bought.

Now it drives on an open 3.9 diff untill the other one is done.

Managed to fix one of my problems which was the clutch bleed and clutch engagement.

Problem was the stock clutch master cylinder which is 5/8 and it needs bigger one.

I made a plate and installed one 3/4 master cylinder from a 90s land rover which costed only 20$.

Pedal feel instantly changed, gears go in much easier and the bleed only took half an hour.

The only thing left is the sound from the driveshaft which i will probably have to go to the guy who made it and see if there something wrong with it.

[cured13]

Now it drives on an open 3.9 diff untill the other one is done.


Did you have to use ring gear from old auto tranny or just flexplate?
At what RPM's you are at 100km/h with 3.9 dif.
Do you have stock sr20det power level or higher?
Beside noises, how it feels through the gears?

Im very interested in that upgrade.

[thom]

Did you have to use ring gear from old auto tranny or just flexplate?
At what RPM's you are at 100km/h with 3.9 dif.
Do you have stock sr20det power level or higher?
Beside noises, how it feels through the gears?

Im very interested in that upgrade.



I bought a flex plate from ebay which yes was from some auto sr20.

With the 3.9 diff i have 109 km/h at 3.000 rpm. Next month i believe i will install the other diff with the 3.69 fd which i believe will be ideal.

Car makes around 300whp.

Beside the noises it feels great but i still dont really like the chassis mount shifter , maybe because its a "street" car.
I will see how it goes and if im not bored i will install an oem bmw shifter with a custom mount to hold it in place .:coolugh:

[Farzam]

Hi, I drive S-chassis and M3's explicitly so this thread is pretty sick lol


I run this mix (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_techtip/techtips/tranny_rattle.htm) in my E36/46 M3's transmissions with SMFW's. Redline is good stuff but you don't necessarily *HAVE* to use that brand if you don't want to. Just follow the mix otherwise. Friends and I run this in 200-450whp cars with great success. Most of us are not gentle with our equipment.


Gearing setups I run in my m3's:
ZF 5-speed: I run 3.38 in NA street cars or turbo cars. 3.64 in NA canyon/track stuff. All these cars usually rev to ~7250RPM.
ZF 6-speed: I run 4.10 in my S54 cars alllll day. ~8100RPM redline 300-340whp. Might go a tad longer with an SR though, but i'd probably try a welded 4.08 out to see how it goes lol.


Mileage on these things is irrelevant if it came out of a car that was well maintained and driven properly. They're stout. Service the detent components while it's out though :)


I highly encourage people who want to go fast to do DCT swaps. My 500whp E90 M3 feels way too fast for the power level, the shifts are so swift and blissful. Sequential-fast shifts with streetable characteristics *chef's kiss*. If you want to drift still, there are ECU systems that allow you to configure CBW (clutch-by-wire) which is pretty nifty. Very tempting tbh. I'd love to have a more purist themed build and then a K-swapped turbo DCT build. Maybe some day. Cool clip one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elAqhsluk2M&t=59s) Cool clip two (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExpWVicTYhk&t=112s) Cool clip three (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szxyoaiqk_0)

Bimmer (Bim-ur) is car. Beemer (Beam-ur) is motorbike.

[tuzzio]

Just sucks the gearing ratio(s) are less than desireable for a street car (in my opinion) for a S-chassis R200 diff. Even if you had a Spec R 3.69.

[Farzam]

Just sucks the gearing ratio(s) are less than desireable for a street car (in my opinion) for a S-chassis R200 diff. Even if you had a Spec R 3.69.


Yeah only overdrive with the 6spd, BMW folk are an odd bunch. It can work with some setups, but definitely not compatible with everything. Will make the car scream, though. 5spd ZF paired with 3.69 would be manageable imo but not ideal for some people. ~70mph@3500RPM in 5th gear isn't the worst. With a 420g 6spd ~70mph@3000RPM, or ~65mph@3000RPM with 4.10 gears.


This is a situation where a Z diff would come in handy, as you can get them with longer ratios (3.357/3.538). I also believe there are some Nissan R200 diffs with 3.538 FD (some NA RB20/25 auto cars) which might not be as easy to find, but ya never know, might be able to get one for a decent price.

[tuzzio]

Thats good info for sure. Its tempting, but in all (unrelated) honesty, when I run out of KA transmissions, my choice of trans is going to be a tremec TKO. One offering has almost identical to factory KA/SR Gearing, and its small / light / easy to remove the bellhousing. I'm lucky to have the resources available for bellhousing modification as well.

[tuzzio]

For anyone interested, I have purchased D9M13N's car and I will be selling his entire SR to ZF swap. I'd like $3,500 + shipping.

[cured13]

does anyone have for sale auto sr20det flexplate?

[Kingtal0n]

Hi guys,

I just finished with this swap .....
...
GS6-53DZ gearbox
Pmc gearbox adapter plate + flywheel
Pmc chassis mount shifter
Flex plate from auto sr20
Sachs oem clutch
Gearbox seals

Everything else was custom made by me. ( except the driveshaft)


THANK YOU for sharing this incredible swap journey. It is very helpful!

I have a couple of possible suggestions or comments,
1. I notice the sr20 starter is stuck behind the transmission, you mention trans has to come out to remove starter, What if you used some studs instead of bolts? Or some welded nuts inside the adapter plate? So you can thread bolts of a perfect length in or use studs that stick OUT and make removal possible.

2. The noise and vibrations... I have a couple suggestions,
A. Did you measure the pinion angle of the transmission before making the mount? It may need to be moved up about 1/2" or so. I experienced many swaps such as this in the past where people just made a mount without measuring first and it causes vibrations. I wonder if this is a big issue for you without realizing it. Pinion should be equal and opposite of the differential. I think usually IRS 240sx will give like a 2* or 2.5degree at the pinion so that is the angle you need at the transmission. For example i made a mount for my 4l80e that looked fine, but when I measure it finally it was like 3* wayyy too low on the tailshaft. I had to cut the trans tunnel up to make it fit properly and raise the tail of the trans. I also just went through this in a RHD chaser with a 1jz 5speed swap on a friends car. It is deceiving how high the tailshaft needs to go sometimes.
B. You might add some seemingly random rubber components to the mount and chassis. It sounds strange but... look at a toyota transmission crossmember like for a jzs161, 5speed something, they include these weird rubber parts that for years struck me as odd but eventually I realized they must be there to reduce vibration of specific frequency. Just a thought.

3. The driveshaft is a critical component to be not only balanced but in phase as well. You can't just change the end piece on a typical driveshaft without considering the phase, its relationship with both ends. I 'strongly' recommend getting a custom driveshaft made by a place that specializes in single piece custom swap driveshafts.... for example I used a sikky driveshaft in my LS swap and the key is to NEVER CUT IT, if you have to change the end fine, but don't cut anywhere or try and re-balance the shaft, that is where majority of screw ups occur apparently.

Seems like a great option just needs ironing out. I actually Like the super low first because sometimes you need to move the car up a hill or up a ramp or even to push another car into the backyard (sigh...) and that super low gear is PERFECT for towing or pushing heavy stuff around or when u carry a heavy weight in the car.

Thanks again and pls keep us updated!

[tuzzio]

Suppose I should add these just for context and future people doing the swap as I just pulled it out yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/mOi0fgg.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/mHjOJ0g.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/Tqm2W9f.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/kWn96QR.jpg?1

[brndck]

]
https://i.imgur.com/kWn96QR.jpg?1

did i miss what clutch and flywheel setup this is?
i'm using the PMC kit and just the sachs clutch plate and cover they recommended

[Om1kron]

did i miss what clutch and flywheel setup this is?
i'm using the PMC kit and just the sachs clutch plate and cover they recommended

https://zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=6338577&postcount=44

[thom]

I would like to make an update on my " project" .

Unfortunately after spending countless hours trying another gearbox , different mounts different gearbox oils and even adding sound deadening in the whole car, i went back to my old sr20 whining gearbox.


My main problem is that the gearset rattle sound coming from this gearbox on decelaration was just too much for a street car. I couldnt enjoy any ride!


After speaking with PMC they gave me zero help and i believe the problem is the balance of the flywheel in combination with the flex plate. I cant think anything else.

Also at the moment pmc have changed the flywheel for this swap and they have the ring gear on as one piece so you dont need to source for a flex plate.

Does this one have different weight and works better ? I will never know!

[brndck]

I would like to make an update on my " project" .

Unfortunately after spending countless hours trying another gearbox , different mounts different gearbox oils and even adding sound deadening in the whole car, i went back to my old sr20 whining gearbox.


My main problem is that the gearset rattle sound coming from this gearbox on decelaration was just too much for a street car. I couldnt enjoy any ride!


After speaking with PMC they gave me zero help and i believe the problem is the balance of the flywheel in combination with the flex plate. I cant think anything else.

Also at the moment pmc have changed the flywheel for this swap and they have the ring gear on as one piece so you dont need to source for a flex plate.

Does this one have different weight and works better ? I will never know!
did you ever try getting the flex plate and pmc flywheel balanced as a unit?

[thom]

did you ever try getting the flex plate and pmc flywheel balanced as a unit?


This is something i never thought of doing to be honest !

Is it possible in a machine shop ?

[brndck]

This is something i never thought of doing to be honest !

Is it possible in a machine shop ?

yes any machine shop that balances cranks or flywheels should be able to perform this.

i do like that PMC finally revised their flywheel to include the ring gear. Wish that had been an option when i ordered my kit from them.