Garrett GTX GEN2 turbos - Discussion

[tb13]

Garrett GTX GEN2 turbos - Discussion

Garrett's latest offering for their GTX lineup is interesting, yet seems very similar and somewhat underwhelming. These are still very new so not much info is floating around yet, but the info that is out seems to show they perform quite well. Would love to see more information collected here for reference, any application from 4cyl to v8 welcome.

First off compressor maps, Here are comparisons of the GTX GEN1 and GTX GEN2 compressor maps for all available turbos:

GTX2860R (GEN1 left, GEN2 right)
http://i.imgur.com/awo1Cqeh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/bcthyD9h.jpg

GTX3071R (GEN1 left, GEN2 right)
http://i.imgur.com/YPpwio7h.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xGqH3zYh.jpg

GTX3076R (GEN1 left, GEN2 right)
http://i.imgur.com/c6P1z5Eh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/qOGztuoh.jpg

GTX3576R (GEN1 left, GEN2 right)
http://i.imgur.com/VKDB2huh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/9T02Ffbh.jpg

GTX3582R (GEN1 left, GEN2 right)
http://i.imgur.com/2EHrWMCh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ZW4AHGph.jpg

This is a dyno graph of a VG30DETT with twin GTX2860R GEN2 turbos, laid down 550whp and 700ft/lbs at 4000rpm, unheard of response. It does seem to fall off up top though, the new compressor maps seem to offer response > peak power with the GEN2
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Patsz32/FB_IMG_1484017439445_zpswdtd44if.jpg

[Maxstyle]

I have someone at Honeywell that says that the regular GT Journal Bearing actually spools faster than GTX. GTX is just more capable of working at it's maximum limits. If you just select a turbo that is matched up with the boost you intend to run, you end up saving money and getting quick response with just the regular GT.

[slider2828]

Wow shit... Gen2 is freaking on paper. Wow look at the pressure ratio at the corrected air flow. Seems like it will reach peak / max boost quicker...

Not a pro for me.

[tb13]

I have someone at Honeywell that says that the regular GT Journal Bearing actually spools faster than GTX. GTX is just more capable of working at it's maximum limits. If you just select a turbo that is matched up with the boost you intend to run, you end up saving money and getting quick response with just the regular GT.

Really? I've never heard that before

[s13silvia123]

Really? I've never heard that before

inside peeps know more about product design than those on the outside.

[blackmags91]

I have also heard that GTX is largely a marketing scheme, and same goes for the GenII. Put a fancy new name on it and its hot.
This is NOT to say that Garrett did not change anything at all, its just that the changes really aren't that drastic.. As opposed to say when BW released the EFR series turbos, for example, was more substantial.

Somewhat on topic, I am coming towards the end of an SR build, and for the longest time I was planning on running a GenII until I really did my homework and realized even a GenI GTX is not worth it when my goal has a ceiling of 400hp. Going to stick with a GT, put a sweet housing on it, and hopefully save some bucks there.

TL;DR
I'm a Garrett guy when it comes to turbos, however I see GTX GenII's for what they are:
-nothing earth shattering innovative
-not worth MY extra dollars for MY goal
-all said, Honeywell doesn't fuck around.. I'm sure it's a quality product

[tb13]

inside peeps know more about product design than those on the outside.

No doubt.

I have also heard that GTX is largely a marketing scheme, and same goes for the GenII. Put a fancy new name on it and its hot.
This is NOT to say that Garrett did not change anything at all, its just that the changes really aren't that drastic.. As opposed to say when BW released the EFR series turbos, for a example, was more substantial.

Somewhat on topic, I am coming towards the end of an SR build, and for the longest time I was planning on running a GenII until I really did my homework and realized even a GenI GTX is not worth it when my goal is 400hp. Going to stick with a GT and save some bucks there.

TL;DR
I'm a Garrett guy when it comes to turbos, however I see GTX GenII's for what they are: -nothing earth shattering innovative
-not worth MY extra dollars for MY goal
-all said, Honeywell doesn't fuck around.. I'm sure it's a quality product

I agree, they are underwhelming, new compressor wheel and a speed port isn't going to make current GTX owners drop the cash to "upgrade". However, looking at the compressor maps and the little info that is floating around they seem to offer some performance benifits, to what extent I can't say. I created this thread because I want to see how they perform, collect information to prove if the GEN2 is really better than the GEN1 turbos or even the standard GT series.

[RB25GUY]

I have someone at Honeywell that says that the regular GT Journal Bearing actually spools faster than GTX. GTX is just more capable of working at it's maximum limits. If you just select a turbo that is matched up with the boost you intend to run, you end up saving money and getting quick response with just the regular GT.

I say this and people go crazy, not to go on a slight tangent but Trust's main selling point on the T67-TD06 25G was that with a 8cm (roughly .61ar) it spooled 400rpm faster than the GT35R BB on evo setup i believe it was. It all depends on how well your setup is matched to said turbo charger.

[RalliartRsX]

I am going to put it bluntly: The key to a turbo's true characteristics is not in the compressor design, but the turbine wheel design. Think about what is coupled to the exhaust.

With that said, the GTX series simply flows more for the same pressure ratios as the standard GT series (compressor maps supports this. Just look how "expanded" to the right the flow map is). Same with the GTX GENII

However, Garrett is still on 20-30 year old (turbine) wheel design. And there is nothing wrong that. But they are still hampered by this.

But they sure do produce some massive numbers!

P.S That initial dyno reads 850WHP and 840 ft lbs........or is there a separate dyno with those numbers you posted (550WHP and 700 ft lbs??)?? A 3-3.2 liter producing that much more torque than HP seems somewhat.........far fetched maybe (unless ran through a restrictor with tons of boost)??

[RalliartRsX]

Also, looks like the surge line is extended to the left on a few of those maps. Essentially, you can command more boost earlier without surging.

[tb13]

I am going to put it bluntly: The key to a turbo's true characteristics is not in the compressor design, but the turbine wheel design. Think about what is coupled to the exhaust.

With that said, the GTX series simply flows more for the same pressure ratios as the standard GT series (compressor maps supports this. Just look how "expanded" to the right the flow map is). Same with the GTX GENII

However, Garrett is still on 20-30 year old (turbine) wheel design. And there is nothing wrong that. But they are still hampered by this.

But they sure do produce some massive numbers!

P.S That initial dyno reads 850WHP and 840 ft lbs........or is there a separate dyno with those numbers you posted (550WHP and 700 ft lbs??)?? A 3-3.2 liter producing that much more torque than HP seems somewhat.........far fetched maybe (unless ran through a restrictor with tons of boost)??

This is the whole reason I wanted to make this thread, I'm sure everyone will agree that Garrett has simply been changing their compressor wheel and offering a "new" product. While the "new" turbo offers different characteristics, it is essentially still limited by the turbine wheel. It does seem like the new GEN2 compressor wheel is a solid "refresh" of the older design, but there simply isn't enough information around at the moment to tell if it is worth buying vs the older GTX or GT.

The 3584RS is the only real "new" offering because it features a new turbine design that is suppose to be more efficient. Not sure why they only chose to launch one new turbo, maybe they are preparing another lineup to come in with a new turbine wheel design.

I know it made more than that power, but look at the graph at 4000rpm, it is making 550whp and 700ft/lbs.

[RalliartRsX]

P.S I just reread my response. Sorry, wasnt trying to come off like an asshole. I was in a rush lol


I see the graph now! Great numbers for that Z!! Wooooow!!! :)