Sr20de with ITB's

[S14boii]

So I'm thinking about going and picking up an n/a sr20de and instead of going with a turbo I'd like to do itb's. My question though is what I'm all will I need to make this happen? Is there anywhere I can order everything in a kit?

[Arteeste]

Mazworx makes an intake manifold flange, you can start there (custom). Other than that you're going to need to be able to tune the ecu I believe the 62 series ecu from the redtop sr20 can have the Alpha-N program via NISMOTRONIC hit them up. Coming from the SR20VE FWD chassis my friends opted out for bmw 50mm ITB's & custom adapted it. That's probably bare minimum sizing for a 2.0 VE & would probably be great in the long run for a DE. Runner length should be 7-9 inches. UPGRADE YOUR ROCKERS, well basically the whole valve train. Better to overbuild to have that protection. The only companies I believe that makes an off the shelf kit for a DE I believe is efi hardware, & possibly jenvey (not sure, but wouldn't be surprised if jenvey can make something). Good luck with the build

[brndck]

my question to you is WHY do you want this? what are your goals, and what is your budget? to do it right won't be cheap, and to do it wrong, will be even MORE expensive

[lewyS14a]

Why not use the Quad throttle body set up from a Pulasar GTIR as it will already bolt straight to your NA SR20DE as the pulsar runs a slightly different form of the SR20DET anyway. Seen a few people here in the UK get effective results from it. Of course then you will need a programmable ECU to make it all run and if you want to make the best of it cams etc.

[Feast Japan]

I built up the NA motor before switching to turbo. Toda 264 cams, Greddy sub-computer, header, DIY intake and ran 4.3 & 4.6 gear. I only ran at Ebisu and Fuji so I needed a variety. The factory 4.1 otherwise had no grunt out of the corners.

The 4 throttle was next on my list but then I started to work out the pricing and I gave up. Just not cheap for a full kit.

This fella in Japan did it right with a custom kit from Ikeya Formula, again though he probably has 2500-3000$ in the throttle set up alone. Original Ikeya 4 throttle set up was meant for turbo car.

http://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/210989/car/100279/profile.aspx

Youll have to translate that page to understand his full spec.

Link to Ikeya kit - http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/category/1968248.html

If you can get the flange your better off making full custom kit to save on money.
http://minkara.carview.co.jp/image.aspx?src=http%3a%2f%2fcdn.snsimg.carview.co. jp%2fcarlife%2fimages%2fUserCar%2f100279%2fp1.jpg% 3fct%3d73c681bc19e8Save

[TheRealSy90]

GTIR quad throttle can be adapted to the rwd sr20 head, but it does not just bolt on.


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[tb13]

Quad throttle body setups are really cool, but unless you are going balls out on building the rest of the head and maybe even bottom end its really not worth it. Will it sound awesome? Sure as shit would, but the power gains would be minimal from just slapping a ITB setup on a stock DE motor.

[jared420sx]

Stop waisting your time and money lmfao.
Buy a det and keep it oem and dont blow it up.
Or buy a sentra w a ve in it lol

[Arteeste]

He's not wasting his time.... the man simply asked for some insight, instead common as a lot of responses are in this forum is that they always point to the negative aspects. Yes itb's are a lot of money, yes he might make minimal power gains, yes it might take a lot of work, yes he could of went the traditional route of an DET but maybe he prefers the rawness of an n/a engine. IT IS HIS CAR maybe he's doing a n/a class, autocross, or just spirited driving with swift response...

[jedi03]

one guy locally did this...was pretty cool...only saw it once so dunno what happened to it...

[sidewaysil80]

Bringing this back from the dead. I'm getting ready to pick up an s13 sr20det w/ a broken ring land and was planning on rebuilding with around 11:1 compression and going to n/a. Sole reason is after my last 240 (all of them for that matter). I just want to do something different. Even with the EFIhardware ITB kit and a Nismotronic or even Power FC for that matter, the pricing is actually a tad cheaper than what I priced out for a 2871r setup. Granted the 2871r will yield likely double the HP, but again, I just want something different. I'm shooting for around 200-250whp and the car will primarly be used as weekend cruiser and HPDE car (I'm within an hours drive of two road courses).

My question is, I've read of some issues with the CAS at high RPM. I was planning on running an ATi Super Damper and Tomei solid lifters/springs to be able to get to around 8000rpms safely, but what is in store signal wise? Do people often switch to a trigger wheel type setup at that RPM? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of a setup or information on them?

[Feast Japan]

Bringing this back from the dead. I'm getting ready to pick up an s13 sr20det w/ a broken ring land and was planning on rebuilding with around 11:1 compression and going to n/a. Sole reason is after my last 240 (all of them for that matter). I just want to do something different. Even with the EFIhardware ITB kit and a Nismotronic or even Power FC for that matter, the pricing is actually a tad cheaper than what I priced out for a 2871r setup. Granted the 2871r will yield likely double the HP, but again, I just want something different. I'm shooting for around 200-250whp and the car will primarly be used as weekend cruiser and HPDE car (I'm within an hours drive of two road courses).

My question is, I've read of some issues with the CAS at high RPM. I was planning on running an ATi Super Damper and Tomei solid lifters/springs to be able to get to around 8000rpms safely, but what is in store signal wise? Do people often switch to a trigger wheel type setup at that RPM? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of a setup or information on them?

If your running aftermarket CP then stay coil on plug with stock CAS. You can keep your factory rods and just update to NA piston and OE rings, thats on the cheap but doable. And check Hotrod Garage for instructions on dingle ball honing procedure haha

Engineered to Slide has a cool PS13 NA build going on for long while now. Search him, rather incredible work.

[sidewaysil80]

If your running aftermarket CP then stay coil on plug with stock CAS. You can keep your factory rods and just update to NA piston and OE rings, thats on the cheap but doable. And check Hotrod Garage for instructions on dingle ball honing procedure haha

Engineered to Slide has a cool PS13 NA build going on for long while now. Search him, rather incredible work.

What RPM did you run your setup to? Did you aftermarket ECU and oem coilpacks have any issue at said RPM?

I'm leaning towards having SR DET oem rods checked/shot peened, use GTi-R bearings (for better oiling/width), and Wiseco 11:1 86.5mm Pistons. While the block is getting bored/decked/etc, I'll likely have them machine oil grooves, but I'm unsure if anything else machine wise should be done to facilitate the higher RPM/compression.

[TheRealSy90]

You should be able to run a Hall effect trigger wheel on the ATI crank damper. Or you could also switch to a Hall effect sensor off the cam gear like Nigel/Engineered to slide sells and runs.


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[Feast Japan]

What RPM did you run your setup to? Did you aftermarket ECU and oem coilpacks have any issue at said RPM?

I'm leaning towards having SR DET oem rods checked/shot peened, use GTi-R bearings (for better oiling/width), and Wiseco 11:1 86.5mm Pistons. While the block is getting bored/decked/etc, I'll likely have them machine oil grooves, but I'm unsure if anything else machine wise should be done to facilitate the higher RPM/compression.

When I was NA it spun to 8500 with a dizzy. Never did I have an issue with ignition. At the time Mines VX Rom with E-Manage for final fuel / timing trimming.

Good oil cooler will help but dont go massive, these are just 4cyl., chance of overcooling is always a worry. I remember running at Fuji in the colder months I would place cardboard over half the rad.

[Feast Japan]

Masterpiece => http://engineeredtoslide.com/category/s13/

[sidewaysil80]

Yeah I just learned of Engineered to Slide a few days ago. I was toyjng with the N/A idea but his car solidified it. I actually reached out to him to see about making another set of the first longbtube header he had on the car. In reading it seems he actually got the specs/research from Tomei while visiting Japan.

[afishysilvia]

Man....that S13 is beautiful, headers are just wow. For anyone who spent the first half of their work day going through engineered to slides page and saw that GTR powered datsun Z...Damn...

[tb13]

What RPM did you run your setup to? Did you aftermarket ECU and oem coilpacks have any issue at said RPM?

I'm leaning towards having SR DET oem rods checked/shot peened, use GTi-R bearings (for better oiling/width), and Wiseco 11:1 86.5mm Pistons. While the block is getting bored/decked/etc, I'll likely have them machine oil grooves, but I'm unsure if anything else machine wise should be done to facilitate the higher RPM/compression.

OEM CAS should be just fine at 8k RPM.

For the bottom end you'll want to lighten up the rotating assembly as much as possible so I'd suggest running a forged piston/rod and sticking with a 17mm DET bearing. Get the bottom end balanced by someone who knows that they are doing and you'll be set. Also might be worth running an SR20VE oil pump to make sure everything stays well oiled since an N/A motor will need to stay in the high RPM range to make power. Cams, springs, retainers and a dual guide mod should get the head sorted for the power you want to make.

[hanzbrady]

OEM CAS should be just fine at 8k RPM.

For the bottom end you'll want to lighten up the rotating assembly as much as possible so I'd suggest running a forged piston/rod and sticking with a 17mm DET bearing. Get the bottom end balanced by someone who knows that they are doing and you'll be set. Also might be worth running an SR20VE oil pump to make sure everything stays well oiled since an N/A motor will need to stay in the high RPM range to make power. Cams, springs, retainers and a dual guide mod should get the head sorted for the power you want to make.

I agree with a good portion of this, however if you're suggesting to run the 17mm bearing due to a weight concern the benefit would not be great enough to sacrifice the protection of the 19mm GTiR bearing.

If you spend the money and get good parts such as a Carrillo PRO A rod which is extremely light and a set of CP pistons you would have a very rev happy bottom end.

The VE oil pump is an excellent upgrade that I would recommend, however people must know that it's not a bolt on affair and requires a conversion oil pick up, timing pointer, balancer machining, and a balancer spacer.

Also given the fact that an NA SR will live it's whole life above 6K RPM I would ditch the hydraulic setup all together and go solid lifer with a set of Tomei 270's or 280's paired with a quality single spring such as the Brian Crower kit or Supertech.

If we're also being very nit picky about building a good NA engine I would drop some serious money on port work and a valve job, but be sure to keep the squish pads in the combustion chamber to keep the compression high while still promoting good flow.

With all of this said we're all making this more complex than it needs to be, Nigel's build is simply a stock SR with a set of cams, while not ideal the car is proven to be fun.

[derass]

If you're aiming for 8000 rpm, I'd worry about throwing/breaking rockers instead of the CAS.

[sidewaysil80]

If you're aiming for 8000 rpm, I'd worry about throwing/breaking rockers instead of the CAS.

Well I’m either going with a dual shim setup and later model hydraulic lifters (still researching this setup) or Tomei solid lifters.

[tb13]

I agree with a good portion of this, however if you're suggesting to run the 17mm bearing due to a weight concern the benefit would not be great enough to sacrifice the protection of the 19mm GTiR bearing.

I wasn't referring to weight with my suggestion to use 17mm bearings, more so just trying to keep the engine as efficient as possible. Not sure if it would really make much of a difference in the long run, but that extra 2mm on each bearing is a total of 8mm of extra surface that is "riding on" the crank. I'm not an engineer though so I could be way off :ugh:

Well I’m either going with a dual shim setup and later model hydraulic lifters (still researching this setup) or Tomei solid lifters.

Solid lifters should be used on a cam larger than a 260 or 264 especially when going for high rpm.

[Feast Japan]

This is rare, NA 4throttle for CA18. Those motors were turned up in formula racing, few parts still around.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r209461270

I just noticed RB26 throttle plates and TP sensor.

[PoorMans180SX]

I'm not sure why people even consider running ITB's when they want to run small cams. Half the benefit of ITB's is that there are no crossover pulses in the intake manifold, so your monster cams idle like little guys. Call up Kelford and have them make you up an NA profile with something like these numbers. https://www.kelfordcams.com/global/camshafts/nissan/sr20-det-non-nvcs/188-d-camshaft-set.html

[jared420sx]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171117/568acb8abeafbe470f4669adb71d03cf.jpg


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