SR20 BOV Location

[Stancyeze]

Basically I'm wondering where I can route my HKS BOV. I have an enthalpy tune for basic bolt ons and I had the BOV on the hit side pipe of my ISR piping kit and it has problems idling after I let off the gas. So I blocked off the BOV and it runs perfect. High boost pulls are great but it has compressor surge obviously because the air isn't released.

Basically I'm asking where can I mount the BOV and not run into any idling issues. I think I can do the cold pipe by the throttle body but I just want extra info before I weld it there and then have the same issue.

[hanzbrady]

Recirculate it like factory and you can put it wherever you want with no issues

[Stancyeze]

Recirculate it like factory and you can put it wherever you want with no issues

How exactly do I go about that? The HKS only has a small vacuum nipple on it, the stock recirc had a large hose nipple on it.

[hanzbrady]

How exactly do I go about that? The HKS only has a small vacuum nipple on it, the stock recirc had a large hose nipple on it.

http://www.frsport.com/Recirculation-Fitting-for-SSQV-Blow-off-Valve-19mm_p_16920.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw1qHABRDU9qaXs4rtiS 0SJADNzJisC9ItuyoUeFEm5tpghdubx2F5HW0r5QhYUDwrPIIk rxoCmu7w_wcB

[s13silvia123]

like this

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/tomm320/Car/819513_43_full.jpg

[Stancyeze]

http://www.frsport.com/Recirculation-Fitting-for-SSQV-Blow-off-Valve-19mm_p_16920.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw1qHABRDU9qaXs4rtiS 0SJADNzJisC9ItuyoUeFEm5tpghdubx2F5HW0r5QhYUDwrPIIk rxoCmu7w_wcB

Will that fit a fake HKS? Bought the car with and it already had a BOV on it and I'm pretty sure it's a fake one lol

[hanzbrady]

Will that fit a fake HKS? Bought the car with and it already had a BOV on it and I'm pretty sure it's a fake one lol

The website says it has to be the HKS cover so no guarantees

[Stancyeze]

Okay, but will my plan work? To have the BOV on the cold side uncirculated. Would that cause any issues?

[KAT-PWR]

You will have the issue no matter where the bov is unless it is recirculated.

Either recirculate it

Or change to a blow through maf set up

To answer the next question, look up blow through maf.

[Stancyeze]

Just made it simple for myself and a bought SQV 3, comes with recirc flange.

[hanzbrady]

Just made it simple for myself and a bought SQV 3, comes with recirc flange.

That's the spirit

[Jorgs_7]

Atmosphere / speed density


Done / end

[KAT-PWR]

Atmosphere / speed density


Done / end


Ayy yo, who's mans is this?

[anti tyler]

Just move the mass airflow sensor to after the BOV. So you can chirp at people all day.

I personally run a blow through setup.

[Juan@Fontananissan]

either recirculate or surge. my personal Z32 surges all day. N-Attack GTR Surges (actually most of the Corporate Race Cars surge for all the throttle responsies) I know personally of people going on 4+ years surging their T25's and T28's without issues (while i've also known people to seize turbos days after surging).

[Stancyeze]

either recirculate or surge. my personal Z32 surges all day. N-Attack GTR Surges (actually most of the Corporate Race Cars surge for all the throttle responsies) I know personally of people going on 4+ years surging their T25's and T28's without issues (while i've also known people to seize turbos days after surging).

Yeah, I let it surge for the couple days I drove it since this is a street/track car and it sounds good but I know it's terrible for the turbo. Especially since I don't know the real mileage of this motor set, I'd rather keep it safe and not blow the turbo already haha

[justinbyrant]

a small amount of surge wont hurt it, if your blocked completely its going to cause problems but if you have a little surge from the bov not releasing air fast enough its going to reduce the life of the turbo by such a minimal amount its not even really measurable, comp surge can mean multiple things almost all of which make the same noise but aren't all terrible, im running a hks bov recirced from my cold pipe about 6 inches from my throttle body and I have small amounts of comp surge and both sizes of the hks recirc fitting, Im using the smaller fitting because even though I get a little surge with it the response is very noticeable, there is no spool time between shifts at 15 psi and im running an open dump tube so its very noticeable, the screamer pipe is screaming before my foot hits the floor again after every shift where as with the larger fitting it takes a second to hit full boost again

[KAT-PWR]

a small amount of surge wont hurt it, if your blocked completely its going to cause problems but if you have a little surge from the bov not releasing air fast enough its going to reduce the life of the turbo by such a minimal amount its not even really measurable, comp surge can mean multiple things almost all of which make the same noise but aren't all terrible, im running a hks bov recirced from my cold pipe about 6 inches from my throttle body and I have small amounts of comp surge and both sizes of the hks recirc fitting, Im using the smaller fitting because even though I get a little surge with it the response is very noticeable, there is no spool time between shifts at 15 psi and im running an open dump tube so its very noticeable, the screamer pipe is screaming before my foot hits the floor again after every shift where as with the larger fitting it takes a second to hit full boost again

I have a feeling you're getting a bit of a placebo effect. No spool time? These are all subjective accounts that have 0 quantification.

[LoSt180]

Ditto above recommendations that it needs to be recirculated.

I have my HKS in the stock location (cold side) using the stock cross-over tube back into the intake.

Can see part of it tucked under the fusebox/cold pipe here.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/lost_180/97-Kouki/20151214_164415_1.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/lost_180/media/97-Kouki/20151214_164415_1.jpg.html)

[Stancyeze]

I have the ISR pipe kit that's modified to fit my high mount intercooler, but my BOV is on the hotside. Makes it easier for me honestly.. less hoses going across the car and what not.

[justinbyrant]

I have a feeling you're getting a bit of a placebo effect. No spool time? These are all subjective accounts that have 0 quantification.

No, this is a very noticeable difference, its not something small that makes me feel better about myself lol its literally the difference between the wastegate opening a half a second after shifting or a full second after shifting, drifting is also much much easier, far less clutch kicking

[hanzbrady]

No, this is a very noticeable difference, its not something small that makes me feel better about myself lol its literally the difference between the wastegate opening a half a second after shifting or a full second after shifting, drifting is also much much easier, far less clutch kicking

Back to doing things right, if you must have all the atmospheric fluttery noises and want driveability, and peak response put on your big boy pants and get an ECU capable of using a MAP signal and programming for anti-lag with flat-foot shifting.

That's how you properly install a blow off valve vented to atmosphere with no side effects and only benefits.

/thread.

[justinbyrant]

Back to doing things right, if you must have all the atmospheric fluttery noises and want driveability, and peak response put on your big boy pants and get an ECU capable of using a MAP signal and programming for anti-lag with flat-foot shifting.

That's how you properly install a blow off valve vented to atmosphere with no side effects and only benefits.

/thread.

Im confused as to what your trying to get at here, no one said anything about venting to atmosphere, and I don't have tons of flutter or any loud noises, my bov and flutter is almost to quiet to hear, this isn't a cool jdm points style thing to have the loudest flutter and ruin a turbo, im recirculating my bov but I used the smaller hks fitting rather than the larger one that lets off more air, because as I stated the difference is very noticeable, dealing with a little flutter to me is worth it for the much faster response

[TheRealSy90]

How about we ask the question whether hot pipe or cold pipe location is best? Also I can't see any benefit to recirc on a MAP based setup?

[hanzbrady]

How about we ask the question whether hot pipe or cold pipe location is best? Also I can't see any benefit to recirc on a MAP based setup?

I didn't say there was one, I was kind of addressing all of the band aids people have suggested in one post.

And as far as cold pipe vs hot pipe closer to the compressor housing where you want to evacuate surge is always best but not always ideal due to packaging issues.

[justinbyrant]

there really isn't any benefit to recirc on a map setup plus no recirc = cool pshhhh sounds, I would also say hot pipe as close to the turbo would be best if you can find a place to make it fit

[R3b]

Hot pipe all day with a blow through setup. Light throttle it flutters all day on my top mount .63 and then full throttle make the stereotypical hks chirp.

[RB25GUY]

there really isn't any benefit to recirc on a map setup plus no recirc = cool pshhhh sounds, I would also say hot pipe as close to the turbo would be best if you can find a place to make it fit

I beg to differ recirc setups on high hp SR will only help the turbo spool faster and still makes animalstics noises and cold side will always be the correct side imo

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/13113842_1050660604993863_784995928_n.jpg?ig_cache _key=MTIzOTkzNjU4OTA3MjQ4NjQ4MA%3D%3D.2


HK7WPUbjm8E


same car same setup Recric Greddy Type R bov :coolugh::coolugh::coolugh:

[feito]

At first glance i was like "a smic with a top mount turbo setup? And such a small cold pipe??!" Hahahaha

[KAT-PWR]

I beg to differ recirc setups on high hp SR will only help the turbo spool faster and still makes animalstics noises and cold side will always be the correct side imo

[Ittp://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x/sh0.08/e35/13113842_1050660604993863_784995928_n.jpg?ig_cache _key=MTIzOTkzNjU4OTA3MjQ4NjQ4MA%3D%3D.
HK7WPUbjm8E


same car same setup Recric Greddy Type R bov :coolugh::coolugh::coolugh:

How can venting small amounts of pressure to atmosphere (intake) help the turbo spool faster? That pressure is immediately lost in the intake tube

[cotbu]

I beg to differ recirc setups on high hp SR will only help the turbo spool faster and still makes animalstics noises and cold side will always be the correct side imo
[emoji106] [emoji817] [emoji845]

[RB25GUY]

How can venting small amounts of pressure to atmosphere (intake) help the turbo spool faster? That pressure is immediately lost in the intake tube

It's not small amounts of pressure at 28 psi, its the same effect you get with no bov, all for faster throttle response which helps spool faster .... think about it...

[KAT-PWR]

No. the pressure is still being released. Sure there may be some residual pressure that assists by the valve not being large enough to vent all the pressure (pressure staying it pipes). But to say releasing that pressure in front of the turbo into open air makes no sense.
p1v1=p2v2


When air is vented to a non contained space (intake pipe) you're increasing the volume to infinity, as such pressure decreases accordingly to 0

Say you have 28psi (psi1) and a total pipe volume of 10m^3 (v1) you are venting this to the intake which as we know is open to atmosphere (there are other factors but let's not over complicate it) well say you use 100.000m^3
[(28psi)(10m^3)]/(100000m^3) = .0028psi into the intake preturbo aka nothing

You are correct that by keeping pressure up in the pipes full boost will be achieved quicker

[justinbyrant]

No. the pressure is still being released. Sure there may be some residual pressure that marginally assists by the valve not being large enough to vent all the pressure (pressure staying it pipes). But to say releasing that pressure in front of the turbo into open air makes none.

I think the thought is if you release that air pointed into the turbo at fairly close range, the hope is it will blow through the fins and keep them spinning a bit, seems like hopeful thinking to me but who knows, personally I think running a tighter bov which would ideally maintain a small amount of pressure in the pipes would give better throttle response than anything else, it takes a lot less work to fill 5 feet of 3 inch pipe to 15 psi from 3 psi rather than from -15 psi

[KAT-PWR]

Yes residual pressure will help. I'm not arguing against that. But venting pressure preturbo will not help.

[justinbyrant]

Yes residual pressure will help. I'm not arguing against that. But venting pressure preturbo will not help.

its not about pressure though its about flow, sure atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi and a air compressor can run 200+ psi, and if you open that anywhere outside it doesn't increase the outside pressure, we all know this I don't think anyone is disputing it however if you now narrow the nozzle and point it at a fan when you vent the 200 psi out of the tank even if you narrow it down to a 28 psi tube and release it that way its still going to turn those fan blades (provided good bearings, close range, etc etc etc) I agree it wont generate any pressure however if its enough to keep the speed of the turbine up even a little then its still going to provide a miniscule advantage over venting to the atmosphere

[KAT-PWR]

After the air spends a long time losing velocity across the cross over tube. Seems trivial

[justinbyrant]

plus the intake is still going to be creating a draw its not exactly a 100% non contained space, if that was the case that air would blow out past the maf backwards and cause all kinds of messed up readings defeating the whole purpose of recirculating

I kind of think of it like piloting a boat down a river instead of across a flat lake or riding a bike in no wind or with the wind, its helpful

[justinbyrant]

After the air spends a long time losing velocity across the cross over tube. Seems trivial

that's why using a smaller crossover tube would be more beneficial, same pressure flowing through a smaller diameter is going to create more velocity, at the same time a smaller tube will create a bottle neck slowing the speed of air escaping the charge pipes thus leaving behind a residual pressure once the valve closes, win/win

[KAT-PWR]

Only information I could find was import tuner where they didn't release the data on a seemingly factory 2008 lancer ralliart. 2% change in throttle response on a factory engineered car recirculated. Without having the hard data it's hard to determine its statistical significance. And any deviation from factory (increasing intake diameter, changing bov crossover diameter, length etc.) no real way to tell without data-logs if there is any real change

[TheRealSy90]

Well, looks like we need someone with a turbo that has a shaft speed sensor to do some logs. Shaft speed between shifts when recirc, vented, and even no bov/blocked bov. And then hot/cold side for all variants lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[justinbyrant]

I would actually be very interested in seeing that lol

[RB25GUY]

Only information I could find was import tuner where they didn't release the data on a seemingly factory 2008 lancer ralliart. 2% change in throttle response on a factory engineered car recirculated. Without having the hard data it's hard to determine its statistical significance. And any deviation from factory (increasing intake diameter, changing bov crossover diameter, length etc.) no real way to tell without data-logs if there is any real change

http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/09/turbosmart-answers-boost-control-questions/




In a recirculating application this means the return path for compressed air returning to the intake is very direct, which enhances response. However, the air has not passed through the intercooler, so it can also be very hot (up to 100 degrees centigrade hotter than ambient air), introducing extra heat into the turbocharger system. The idea behind mounting the blow-off valve before the throttle body is that the airflow through the intake system continues to flow towards the intake manifold when the throttle is shut and the blow-off valve is venting, but when the throttle is reopened, air is still travelling in the same direction requiring less energy and time for the turbocharger to return to operating speeds. In a recirculating application the return path from the valve to the intake is much longer, however the recirculated air will be much cooler (only up to 50 degrees centigrade hotter than ambient air), thus not adding as much heat into the turbocharger system.

in theory you are right, in the real world its totally different ball game that ralliart they ran test on the CFMs on that baby (turboTD04HL-15T) is pushing compared to the TD06-25G no where near to compare



Ralliart TD04 on a 7 cm (.49 ar) 428 CFM, TD06H-25G is 850 cfm with a 10cm housing roughly (.71 ar) that 2 percent means nothing when the turbine flow difference is 100 plus percent more efficient than the TD04 they used in the "testing"......

[Kingtal0n]

bypass valve needs to be as close to the compressor as possible, with as short a tube as possible. Some new turbos are coming with them integrated to the compressor housing.

I made mine from scrap aluminum pipe and some shit I found on the floor of a friends shop
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/kingtal0n/Kingtal0ns_240sx_2/HOTPIPE/P1250932_zpshjekbruu.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/kingtal0n/media/Kingtal0ns_240sx_2/HOTPIPE/P1250932_zpshjekbruu.jpg.html)
you can do it