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SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 01:44 PM
Hi everyone,

I've spent about 3 weeks shopping for a 240SX, and have become discouraged. Living in CA, driving a swapped car on the street is risky. I know people do it, but if I get the hood popped, I'm scrambling to put a KA in and sent to the REF.

I know a lot of people drift with the stock KA, but a friend (who competes in pro-am, and is an instructor) advised me against the KA, because it is easy to outgrow it. I have a fair amount of track experience, so more HP would give me a higher ceiling to build my skills on.

But swaps are too dangerous here, which sucks.

I'm starting to think of finding a 99 or 01 Cobra (has IRS). Yeah, they're heavier than the 240 by 500lbs, but when you cut down to basics: RWD, power, IRS.

The cars are stout and parts are cheap. My budget was $5k-$12k, and there's not a lot in that area. E36s break, and are expensive to drive. S2000s (from what I hear and read) aren't great for drifting, due to their engine being so far back.


Does anyone have any experience with these? I know regular Mustang GTs aren't great (although I've seen a lot of them running at Sonoma Drift), because of the live axle. But with an IRS, it seems like a decent platform for a first year drift car, no?


Curious what people think. Any experience? Any friends that had Mustangs (especially with the IRS).

Thanks.

benarovi
02-09-2016, 01:51 PM
mustangs look and sound like shit $5-12k get a 350z or is300 something nice that drifts well factory

zenkicpe
02-09-2016, 02:03 PM
Yeah man go for it, Vaughn Gittin Jr lives!

Oh, and let us know how it goes

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 02:39 PM
They're quite ugly, I agree. I'm not trying to Vaughn Gittin fanboy, I'm looking for smart insight from people with exerience/knowledge.

Pro-am friend said the IS300s are a bit heavy, narrower track, low power for money (220hp). I love the IS300, I think they're great looking cars, and very reliable, but I was told they aren't great, and they also cost about $10k for a decent one, especially with a MT and LSD.

Open to corrections though, but please no knee-jerk reactions based on bias.

badbob2121
02-09-2016, 02:48 PM
Mustangs are a decent option that actually have a lot of aftermarket support on the drifting side.


Check out the facebook group 'FMC Drift'. Lots of info there if you're wanting to go that route.

Corbic
02-09-2016, 02:48 PM
Don't listen to these assholes.

First, read up on the Mustang years and chassis. Each has its own nuances and pros and cons.

If your not FD comp drifting, you can run a torque arm on the solid axel which is more preferable then the crappy IRS setup.

IRS is also a bolt in affair and I find whole rear drop outs around here for $800-1,200.

A S197 chassis car is going to handle a lot better (05-14), and early 05's are damn cheap these days.

With a Fox chassis (79-04) at minimal you'll need a k-member, arms, coil over conversion, subframe connectors and bump steer kit.


Check out Doug Vandenbrink, his site is informative and will get you started. DVANZ.com He is focused on the SN95/New Edge style.

Vaughn only ever messed with the S197 which is good to go out of the box.

So keep that in mind. An older car will need $3k in suspension, a S197 won't.

But a 05-10 car looks like dick.

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 02:54 PM
I stand corrected on the IS300s, it's 1" wider and has 8" longer wheelbase. But they're also 3300+lbs and 202hp.

They're so pretty though.

Corbic
02-09-2016, 03:11 PM
I stand corrected on the IS300s, it's 1" wider and has 8" longer wheelbase. But they're also 3300+lbs and 202hp.

They're so pretty though.


5lbs of dirt or 5lbs of stones.

If you are looking for a drift/track/street car...

Start with a budget. How much do you have, how much each month can you piss away.

Then look at what that buys you.

Then look at what excites you that you can buy.

If you are only looking at the mustang because of CARB compliance and purchase price, keep walking. Buy one because you want that Mustang life.

If you want a 240 and can do a swap but CARB has you down? Swap a CARB legal VQ35DE. 245whp stock, throw on a cat use the factory wiring and ECU.

There is a $500 adaptor that lets you bolt it to a KA transmission and the engine fits nicely. You can use a $300 Maxima engine and just get a Z intake manifold.

http://image.modified.com/f/15595841%2Bw750%2Bst0/sccp_0805_03_z%2B1991_nissan_240sx%2Bs13_vq35de.jp g


SC300, you can then mount a Z33 Trans to either the 2JZ or 1UZFE.

MK3 Supra. Replace the head studs and gasket and the 7MGTE is ready to party.

Bottom line. Fuck online opinions. Don't worry about bullshit drift bible garbage and the IS300 is narrower or the FC3S is short and twitchy or the S14 had more under steer then a S13 or a sunroof weights more. None of that crap matters. You can drift a Crown Victoria or a Tacoma if you want (and people have!)

If you love the car, you'll work on it, you'll drive it and you'll get good with it.

Don't worry about the technicalities.

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 03:48 PM
I like your attitude! And I actually have drifted my Crown Vic (2005 and put an LSD in it).

For me the focus is a balance of budget and CARB. I don't have a shop to do a motor swap. I will one day, but not today. A VQ in a 240 is a cool idea, one I haven't seen, but again, I don't have the shop space. (Not to mention clean 240s seem to be a bit over-priced), that pushes the budget near $8/9,000.

I've also heard that getting a ref to pass your CARB legal swap isn't always that simple. Some of them are sticklers for OEM intake placement, carbon canisters, etc. I'm acquaintances with David Freiburger, and even he-with all the knowledge and shop access at Hot Rod- couldn't get his LS-swapped 2nd gen Camaro past a ref. They kept flagging him for his canister placement.


I don't want a "Mustang life". I have little brand loyalty. It's merely a balance of money available, power, and durability. A V8 with an IRS seems like a decent recipe for entry level. It's certainly lighter than my Crown Vic.

If I move to a house with real garage space, I'll revisit the swap thing.


I everyone's comments.

5lbs of dirt or 5lbs of stones.

If you are looking for a drift/track/street car...

Start with a budget. How much do you have, how much each month can you piss away.

Then look at what that buys you.

Then look at what excites you that you can buy.

If you are only looking at the mustang because of CARB compliance and purchase price, keep walking. Buy one because you want that Mustang life.

If you want a 240 and can do a swap but CARB has you down? Swap a CARB legal VQ35DE. 245whp stock, throw on a cat use the factory wiring and ECU.

There is a $500 adaptor that lets you bolt it to a KA transmission and the engine fits nicely. You can use a $300 Maxima engine and just get a Z intake manifold.

http://image.modified.com/f/15595841%2Bw750%2Bst0/sccp_0805_03_z%2B1991_nissan_240sx%2Bs13_vq35de.jp g


SC300, you can then mount a Z33 Trans to either the 2JZ or 1UZFE.

MK3 Supra. Replace the head studs and gasket and the 7MGTE is ready to party.

Bottom line. Fuck online opinions. Don't worry about bullshit drift bible garbage and the IS300 is narrower or the FC3S is short and twitchy or the S14 had more under steer then a S13 or a sunroof weights more. None of that crap matters. You can drift a Crown Victoria or a Tacoma if you want (and people have!)

If you love the car, you'll work on it, you'll drive it and you'll get good with it.

Don't worry about the technicalities.

Green Arrow
02-09-2016, 04:01 PM
The vq swap seems affordable, plus they're plentiful. I might look at doing that to my project. I've seen a few on here running for decent prices. But you should also consider a lm7 swap on a s-chassis. They're dirt cheap here in Tn. Any more info on vqswaps Corbic? Sorry to thread jack!!! Just really caught my ears...
I'd love to see op in a cobra though!!! Dem sounds

Aureus Mente
02-09-2016, 04:08 PM
I think you are underestimating the ford live axle. what you would spend on suspension mods for irs you could spend the same amount and make it handle just as good.

Coilovers, upper control arm, lower control arms, panhard bar, lower control arm relo brackets and watts link is the only suspension mods a mustang needs. If you truly believe in IRS then you can swap it into in a live axle chassis with a cobra IRS swap.

Motor wise i own both a KA and a coyote mustang. I did a complete fresh ground up rebuild on the KA, and in the end it was honestly a waste of money and a hard lesson to learn. Only reason for it be viable is turbocharging the motor and if you do have it stock it doesn't have the powerband for drifting. The only successful drifter i have seen use a Ka was Matt Powers and he eventually went LS. I dont know what california motor swap laws are so i dont know if you can swap a coyote engine into a older mustang, but in my opinion it is the best motor ford has ever produced.

Aureus Mente
02-09-2016, 04:18 PM
also for people who bash live axle (maybe because it isn't JDM enuff) don't forget about the almighty AE86 came with a live axle.

Green Arrow
02-09-2016, 04:19 PM
Don't ae86 guys swap schassis rear subframes in?

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 04:20 PM
Don't listen to these assholes.

First, read up on the Mustang years and chassis. Each has its own nuances and pros and cons.

If your not FD comp drifting, you can run a torque arm on the solid axel which is more preferable then the crappy IRS setup.

IRS is also a bolt in affair and I find whole rear drop outs around here for $800-1,200.

A S197 chassis car is going to handle a lot better (05-14), and early 05's are damn cheap these days.

With a Fox chassis (79-04) at minimal you'll need a k-member, arms, coil over conversion, subframe connectors and bump steer kit.


Check out Doug Vandenbrink, his site is informative and will get you started. DVANZ.com He is focused on the SN95/New Edge style.

Vaughn only ever messed with the S197 which is good to go out of the box.

So keep that in mind. An older car will need $3k in suspension, a S197 won't.

But a 05-10 car looks like dick.


Thanks for the advice! I actually prefer the retro look (05+) to the Edge, or SN95. The good thing about SN95s is they're really cheap, and a lot of them have smart mods on them. $5k gets you a lot of car, often with the suspension you mentioned. Cheaper entry leaves more money for parts/tires/entry fee.

I'll read Dan's site cover to cover. I've worked with Cortex a bit, so I'm familiar with the Panhard bar fixes and all that. What I've been told by various pro-am friends is that the IRS makes sliding much more predictable, although live axle will slide easily (as I know), and it's all about driver inputs and getting better.

Why is the Ford IRS bad?

Aureus Mente
02-09-2016, 04:24 PM
Don't ae86 guys swap schassis rear subframes in?


lmao i knew saying that was going to come back to bite me in the ass.

nismostyle240
02-09-2016, 04:37 PM
Here are some drift parts for Mustang in case you get curious (1st link). The other link is great to especially for road racing and auto-x. I have 03" Cobra and I'm the process of finishing up my suspension with these sources. I thought this would be helpful.

http://dvanzstore.bigcartel.com/

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/Choose_Your_Mustang.htm

S197
http://www.vorshlag.com/index.php?cPath=141_142

Corbic
02-09-2016, 04:37 PM
T. But you should also consider a lm7 swap on a s-chassis. They're dirt cheap here in Tn.


Nooooooooo!


5.3 Swaps are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

$400 5.3
$200 wires and ECU
$300 Oil Pan
$300 Intake
$250 Water Pump
$600 Accessory System
$700 headers
$1,500 swap kit
$3000 transmission

Then you have all the odds and ends.

Corbic
02-09-2016, 04:44 PM
Why is the Ford IRS bad?


It's all in the design. Don't expect a IRS Mustang to feel like a 350Z or 240sx.

The suspension nose to tail just utterly blows. You can fix it. You can fix everything, but at a cost.

Cobras also go for 8-12k from what I've see. But, like I said, you can swap the IRS.


If you really dig the S197, that's a better platform to build on. Newer Car, better suspension and more powerful engines.

I've seen V6s for $5k out here.

https://specclutch.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/10410613_10152925352763280_8903030702184493296_n.j pg

Green Arrow
02-09-2016, 04:46 PM
Ohhhh my bad, I was atleast right about the motor being cheap lol. A 302 from a explorer is cheap though!

Corbic
02-09-2016, 04:46 PM
Don't ae86 guys swap schassis rear subframes in?


Pretty sure that's a strength issue.

The AE86 also has better geometry then a 79-04 Mustang. S197s are solid however and the Boss 302 destroyed the E92 M3 all day long.

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 05:05 PM
I wouldn't want to swap in an IRS. I'd rather buy a Cobra that has it already.



How much would all those suspension mods cost for a live axle? I've seen some good SN95 GTs and Cobras, with power mods, for really cheap.

Corbic
02-09-2016, 05:14 PM
I wouldn't want to swap in an IRS. I'd rather buy a Cobra that has it already.







How much would all those suspension mods cost for a live axle? I've seen some good SN95 GTs and Cobras, with power mods, for really cheap.


$3-4K front to rear (coils, kmember and all)

You'll still need to modify the IRS to get it to be worth a damn. It will cost $3-4K as well.

Read up Dan's site.

The K-member swap is insurmountably important. It sheds 75lbs off the car, it makes working on the engine a thousand times easier and it gets you better geometry with your FLCA.

AJE and Team-Z are the best right now. $280 vs $380 with Team Z being fancier.

Arms are like $200 for tubulars. You'll need coilovers.

"SR" is the ISIS/ISR brand of the Mustang world. They have coils for $700 and camber plates for $150.

For $800 you can make nice non-dampening adjustable Koni coils or for $1000 you can get BCs.

AJE Camber plates are like $180 I think.

Matej
02-09-2016, 05:14 PM
Just PM all your questions to Corbic directly.

Corbic
02-09-2016, 05:17 PM
Ohhhh my bad, I was atleast right about the motor being cheap lol. A 302 from a explorer is cheap though!


Yeah it is. If I was building a SBF it would be a 351 however. Blocks are good to 700whp instead of 350whp.


You can also build a SOHC Teksid blocked engine for cheap. $2-3k with forged rods and Pistons. Teksid aluminum blocks shed 80lbs.

F150 Coyotes bolt in, make 400hp and cost $2,600. You'd have to by my EPAS kit though ^_~.

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 05:19 PM
I think of it like Corbic and I are having a friendly chat at a table at a coffee shop. Now that the thread it going, PMing is like sitting at the table and texting.

Corbic
02-09-2016, 05:21 PM
I think of it like Corbic and I are having a friendly chat at a table at a coffee shop. Now that the thread it going, PMing is like sitting at the table and texting.


My PM box is nearly full and I use tapatalk so getting me to check it is like not happening or whatever.

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 05:29 PM
So let's look at where money can be spent:

For $7,000 I can get a lightly used '99 Cobr (http://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/5432913138.html)a. Has IRS, and the 32v engine. Would still need parts to make it turn, tighten front end, yes?

For about $4,000, SN95 GTs are everywhere (or 94-96 Cobras, which have a slightly better engine). They have a 16v head, live axle, same geometry as the Cobra. I don't need a ton of power; I plan on driving this car for one year probably. A throttle body, MAF, exhaust, intake, that's all fine. I don't think I will want to do a head swap, though.

Where would you put your money, Corbic? If you had, say, $8000 total, is it better to get the car with the better foundation (Cobra) for 6, and spend 2. Or buy a GT for super cheap, and put all the parts on it?


Appreciate this a lot.

benarovi
02-09-2016, 05:52 PM
just buy a stock nice car. a well rounded car. drift it like that. You become a way better driver when you have to make the car drift, not just have a drift car and drift it.

Blk96t
02-09-2016, 07:46 PM
Mustangs make great drift cars.
My homie Steve Mass has been driving a mustang for a few years now and could absolutely dominate most events he enters but were in sodak so exposure and events are limited.
He went to Triple Crown 2 years ago and the judges Chris Foresburg and company were in awww.
Look him up Steve Mass from Massive designs. I know he has a Facebook and sells custom Mustang parts from there. I'd link it but I have no bookface.
Steve Mass RC South Dakota. Legit Mustang Drift muscle. Please look him up, you won't be disssapointed! The Midwest is very underrated due to being in the middle of the US.

SarcastaBall
02-09-2016, 10:51 PM
$3-4K front to rear (coils, kmember and all)

You'll still need to modify the IRS to get it to be worth a damn. It will cost $3-4K as well.

Read up Dan's site.

The K-member swap is insurmountably important. It sheds 75lbs off the car, it makes working on the engine a thousand times easier and it gets you better geometry with your FLCA.

AJE and Team-Z are the best right now. $280 vs $380 with Team Z being fancier.

Arms are like $200 for tubulars. You'll need coilovers.

"SR" is the ISIS/ISR brand of the Mustang world. They have coils for $700 and camber plates for $150.

For $800 you can make nice non-dampening adjustable Koni coils or for $1000 you can get BCs.

AJE Camber plates are like $180 I think.


Thanks. Looking at a 2005 with coils and camber plates on it already. I can bolt on the Cobra steering rack and have a good ol time. 300lbs heavier than the SN95, haha. Rear seats, be gone!

nismostyle240
02-10-2016, 10:36 AM
I have faith in domestics, as you can see the trends are changing for them to be more multipurpose oriented.

SarcastaBall
02-10-2016, 11:58 AM
I have faith in domestics, as you can see the trends are changing for them to be more multipurpose oriented.

The Camaro 1LE (last gen) was a really good track car. I drove it at Laguna and was very impressed by steering feel, turn in, and communicative chassis. I recently tested the Cadillac ATS-V, and the new Alpha chassis is even better. Domestics are good driver's cars now. Only problem with the Mustang is the weight, but hopefully they change that with the next gen. The new Camaro is smaller/lighter (too bad you still can't see out of it).

Corbic
02-10-2016, 06:56 PM
Where would you put your money, Corbic? If you had, say, $8000 total, is it better to get the car with the better foundation (Cobra) for 6, and spend 2. Or buy a GT for super cheap, and put all the parts on it?


Hmm, honestly I keep getting on fence about selling my 240 and getting another Mustang.

I would start with a $1,500-$2,500 V6. Do front suspension, Swap a F150 Coyote, MS3 and a 8.8" Rear, Shelby T56/TR606.

But, I know I know, no engine swaps.

So...

GT. The Cobra really doesn't appeal to me. Yes, it has IRS, but the IRS is not that great, it will still need all new arms and bushings. Both the Cobra and GT will need all new front end parts.

SarcastaBall
02-10-2016, 07:01 PM
Thanks. I appreciate your advice.

If swaps were in my world, I'd be putting an LS in a 240, or maybe a weird BMW S54 project. :)

I found a SN197 with all the suspension done, for less than a Cobra. I'll be looking for something like that. More affordable entry. Then...Willow skidpad time.

Thanks!

kashira kureijii
02-10-2016, 07:42 PM
Don't ae86 guys swap schassis rear subframes in?

no, there are actually quite a few 86ers out their with ford rear axles though. stock ae axle can' handle much torque, just like stock ae tranny. people running gze's, beam's, uz's normally have to swap dat stuff. haven't heard of anyone swapping s chassis subs, just modified ford rears, and celica supra rears (because obviously the s chassis uses cv rears while 86's use old school rears or live or whatever they're called)

Ford makes good rear axles from what I hear, I'm no muscle car guy doe.

Corbics all about this though, you can tell his moment has finally arrived and he is savoring every minute of this mustang discussion.