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510_j
10-14-2013, 12:37 PM
i am gearing up for a q45 brake upgrade have the caliper rotors, 5 lug hub conversion kit etc. and since im going 4 lug to 5 lug that means new wheels, i was hoping to get some enkei's but the style that i like dosent come in the size that i am looking for and before i suck it up and buy em i was wondering if i could get some opinions on the rota grids. i google some reviews about them and im getting mixed reviews some say they suck, easy to break, some say that they never had an issue with em, as with everything there are good and bad things but all the websites i looked on i didnt really find a review from 240 owners. whats you guys take on the rota grids

ps its been awhile since i been on here sorry if this is the wrong section

CharCharXD
10-14-2013, 12:51 PM
Wheels are wheels dude. People on this forum could bash on fake wheels all day but at the end of the day, its really up to you. I've seen rotas crack before. They could probably cover you if anything like that happened.

brndck
10-14-2013, 12:58 PM
This has been covered over and over.
If you're cheap, get Rotas. If you like quality, get something else. Enkeis are a great value.

zerodameaon
10-14-2013, 12:59 PM
You are right this is not the correct spot, go find the small questions and answers thread next time.

xbl1nd
10-14-2013, 06:50 PM
Another point of view...

Alot of people judging fake wheels and bashing on fake wheels are typically referring to them breaking when drifting...Yes, Rotas can break on hard driving..its proven, real wheels are not only made for good looks but also to be lightweight, and provide good offsets for different suspension setups and brake/coilover clearances, if you plan on drifting on a budget like most people do, you can make adjustments to increase driving safety by using s14 se or get a extra set of 350z wheels or other OEM 5x114.3 for the track to minimize this from happening and run the grids on the street for DD or Sunday cruise to prevent headaches.

ComicArtist
10-14-2013, 07:30 PM
The majority of the 'broken fake wheels' threads originate from people who have bashed their cars into walls or curbs.

BIG SURPRISE

I've driven/drifted hard on replica and 'real' wheels, and have been fine. Only wheel I've ever broken was when I smashed an XXR into a curb, it broke a chunk out of the lip, hit the curb at around 45mph, what do you expect.

I have a problem with people calling them 'fake', because they're still wheels. They're just replicas of wheels that established wheel companies have already made. Biggest difference is in the casting/forging process. It's cheaper to cast a single piece aluminum wheel than to make a forged 3 piece wheel, which is why Rotas and XXR's are cheaper.

I'm not a fan of them, since they're knocking off cool wheels, but at the same time it just makes you cooler if you have the real thing.

If you're drifting them, buy the replicas. That way you don't have to spend $6-800 to replace one when you smash into something.

If you're just trying to look cool/baller when you're rolling around, buy the OG shit, that way you'll be a baller and can be proud of your wheels.

I wish people would quit bitching about it honestly

doborder02
10-14-2013, 10:53 PM
Rotas are what they are... if you want it get it, otherwise, move on!!!

SidewaysS13ka
10-14-2013, 11:25 PM
my buddy has been drifting rotas for atleast 2 years on and off the track and they seem to be holding up..

510_j
10-14-2013, 11:42 PM
The majority of the 'broken fake wheels' threads originate from people who have bashed their cars into walls or curbs.

BIG SURPRISE

I've driven/drifted hard on replica and 'real' wheels, and have been fine. Only wheel I've ever broken was when I smashed an XXR into a curb, it broke a chunk out of the lip, hit the curb at around 45mph, what do you expect.

I have a problem with people calling them 'fake', because they're still wheels. They're just replicas of wheels that established wheel companies have already made. Biggest difference is in the casting/forging process. It's cheaper to cast a single piece aluminum wheel than to make a forged 3 piece wheel, which is why Rotas and XXR's are cheaper.


thats kinda what i thought too people crashed into something therefor screwing up their wheels but if that is the case from what you are saying rotas should hold up just fine right

510_j
10-14-2013, 11:59 PM
The majority of the 'broken fake wheels' threads originate from people who have bashed their cars into walls or curbs.

BIG SURPRISE

I've driven/drifted hard on replica and 'real' wheels, and have been fine. Only wheel I've ever broken was when I smashed an XXR into a curb, it broke a chunk out of the lip, hit the curb at around 45mph, what do you expect.

I have a problem with people calling them 'fake', because they're still wheels. They're just replicas of wheels that established wheel companies have already made. Biggest difference is in the casting/forging process. It's cheaper to cast a single piece aluminum wheel than to make a forged 3 piece wheel, which is why Rotas and XXR's are cheaper.


thats kinda what i thought too people crashed into something therefor screwing up their wheels but if that is the case from what you are saying rotas should hold up just fine right

my buddy has been drifting rotas for atleast 2 years on and off the track and they seem to be holding up..

really no problems?...is your friend also on zilvia...i kinda want to shoot him a pm

teh smithers
10-15-2013, 02:09 AM
Wheels are wheels. They all perform the same function.

However, used sets of cool Japanese wheels in good sizes turn up on here all the time. Oftentimes, they're only slightly more expensive than a new set of Rotas or other cheaper brands. I picked up my SSR's for 1000 beans and I've been chillin' ever since.

genericforumname
10-15-2013, 02:34 AM
Enkei rpf1's aren't that much more expensive than some of the rota's I've seen around and you get extra strength, less weight, and the knowledge that someone isn't aping a design that cost a company time and effort to make for pennies on the dollar while paying them 0 in royalties.

my problem isn't necessarily with the knockoffs themselves but with the effect this has on companies that actually design their wheels and make new designs. This is also a question about the mindset of modders nowadays mainly I just wonder why people are so concerned with doing mods RIGHT NOW instead of waiting until the time is right to do the job properly with not-crap parts. Also I do get concerned now and again when people use cheap-o suspension arms and drive fast. Always paranoid they're going to fail and take me or someone else out. though this is about wheels so eh.

dawagarage
10-15-2013, 03:15 AM
which enkei wheel and what size are you looking for? maybe you arent looking hard enough, or do you know for sure that enkei does not make the wheel in that size?

go with enkei and you will not have any regrets

thefro526
10-15-2013, 06:19 AM
I've said this before but, when you hit a curb and break a rota/XXR/whatever, you blame the wheel. When you hit a curb and break a 'real wheel' you blame the curb.

All in all I've had my Grids for ~20,000 miles now, and they're no worse than any other wheel I've driven on for that long. Only thing that's suspect is the overall quality of the casting since I had some issues getting them balanced properly. Our theory was that there are some voids in the wheel (bubbles) from the casting process that make the wheels essentially impossible to balance perfectly.

ShadowMan
10-15-2013, 08:22 PM
I've been beating the hell out of my rota p45r's for the better part of 5 years. Every thing from dirt roads, to DD to drifting/off-roading. They have held up pretty good so far. Wouldn't mind another set of p45's or grids for spares. Look at your budget and be honest with yourself. Sure, everyone wants a quality set of wheels, but there is nothing wrong with replica's for the time being. I like replica's because if I put them on and decide they're not right for my car or that I just don't like the way they look, more people will be able to afford them when I re-sell em, or if I do break one, I don't have to smuggle balloons of heroin out of mexico to afford a new one. As far as companies that make replica's, Rota is descent. Besides, no matter what you do, someone, somewhere is going to have something to say about it good or bad.

genericforumname
10-15-2013, 10:02 PM
I've said this before but, when you hit a curb and break a rota/XXR/whatever, you blame the wheel. When you hit a curb and break a 'real wheel' you blame the curb.

All in all I've had my Grids for ~20,000 miles now, and they're no worse than any other wheel I've driven on for that long. Only thing that's suspect is the overall quality of the casting since I had some issues getting them balanced properly. Our theory was that there are some voids in the wheel (bubbles) from the casting process that make the wheels essentially impossible to balance perfectly.

honestly man not really tryin' to be a dick about it but that doesn't seem like it could cause a potentially serious safety issue? I would think improperly balanced wheels could put undue stress on hubs and studs and potentially lead to failures.Not only that but doesn't that create a much greater chance of cracks and splits? I'm not an engineer but it would make sense if it were true.

if anything send those pos's back and make Rota replace them. sounds like a potentially serious defect. I know Rota sent a replacement to that guy that managed to rotate the spokes inside the barrels on a set he was using for drifting. It's worth an email at least.

DJ-of-E
10-15-2013, 10:24 PM
Cracked enkei RP1s after riding over a railroad track, blamed the railroad track.

Cracked Rota slipstreams after hitting the curve, blamed the curb.

Same thing over again =/

theericsmith
10-15-2013, 10:26 PM
ive seen te37s smashed into countless pieces and i've seen rotas smashed into countless pieces. I have been dailying on grids on my s14 for about a year and they are fine.

People with real wheels bash fake wheels because they regret spending all that money for a logo so they have to try and justify to themselves that it was the right decision. Rotas are great IMO so go ahead, you won't be disappointed.

SuperBlackS14
10-15-2013, 11:29 PM
Try this on for size...

Enkei's use a special flow forming technology that they've recently lent to Koenig wheels, called MAT. You should read up on it, and JWL/VIA Standards (the one's Volks, Enkeis, A-Tech and even Rota are made to), you might learn something. Especially when you see that Volk has their own higher standard.

It's still as much your choice as ever. But knowledge is power.

FRpilot
10-15-2013, 11:37 PM
ive seen te37s smashed into countless pieces and i've seen rotas smashed into countless pieces. I have been dailying on grids on my s14 for about a year and they are fine.

People with real wheels bash fake wheels because they regret spending all that money for a logo so they have to try and justify to themselves that it was the right decision. Rotas are great IMO so go ahead, you won't be disappointed.

:duh: You really think people buy real te37s for the logo?

:picardfp:

oh wait... you have rotas. you wouldn't understand.

Frank_Jaeger
10-16-2013, 07:42 AM
Super Advan master race reporting in.

Get whatever wheels you can afford. This isn't hard.

!Zar!
10-16-2013, 10:14 AM
If you have no self worth and dignity then buy Rotas.

racepar1
10-16-2013, 10:50 AM
People with real wheels bash fake wheels because they regret spending all that money for a logo so they have to try and justify to themselves that it was the right decision. Rotas are great IMO so go ahead, you won't be disappointed.

Yeah, NO...

People with real wheels bash knockoffs because we took the time and spent the money to buy something that we can be proud of. We take pride in our purchase and the primary issue is when people try to apply the same pride to their knockoffs. It's NOT the same thing and it never will be. Is a fake Armani suit just as good and cool as an original? I think not...

Oftentimes you can get a good condition set of used quality wheels for the same price as the stinking Rotas, as stated previously.

As has been stated, if you're drifting buy the knockoffs. That way you can smash them into little tiny bits and laugh it off. For a daily wheel something name brand, but not super light and fragile would be ideal. Super light forged wheels should be reserved for track (not drift) and show useage.

Most people would never notice the difference between a knockoff and legit wheel. Most of you don't have the mental capacity to undestand or appreciate the differences in manufacturing techniques. As long as it looks cool you're mostly good with it. Most people here don't have the moral capacity to appreciate that an "original" design is worth something and a knockoff of said design is worthless.

I believe that different wheels have different purposes. You need to buy the wheel that suits YOUR purposes. Having a little pride in your purchase never hurts either though.

510_j
10-16-2013, 04:13 PM
thank you all for your opinions but i finally made a decision tired of researching and sunce all the styles i like i cant find as 16" imma stick with 17's and despite my decision between rotas or enkeis im going xxr's lol

!Zar!
10-17-2013, 12:37 AM
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/082/456/Okay.png

teh smithers
10-17-2013, 01:21 AM
im going xxr's lol

http://decisivesports.com/wp-content/gallery/gifs/jordan-goat.gif

DJ-of-E
10-17-2013, 01:41 AM
thank you all for your opinions but i finally made a decision tired of researching and sunce all the styles i like i cant find as 16" imma stick with 17's and despite my decision between rotas or enkeis im going xxr's lol

And...for $400 a month ago, I bought myself a full set of Kosei K1s :w00t:

Rotas are one thing....XXRs is a whole another story.

thefro526
10-17-2013, 06:33 AM
honestly man not really tryin' to be a dick about it but that doesn't seem like it could cause a potentially serious safety issue? I would think improperly balanced wheels could put undue stress on hubs and studs and potentially lead to failures.Not only that but doesn't that create a much greater chance of cracks and splits? I'm not an engineer but it would make sense if it were true.

if anything send those pos's back and make Rota replace them. sounds like a potentially serious defect. I know Rota sent a replacement to that guy that managed to rotate the spokes inside the barrels on a set he was using for drifting. It's worth an email at least.

I understand what you're saying, and oddly enough I am an Engineer. (At least, that's what I'm paid to do)

You're right, having an improperly balanced wheel is going to cause a lot of components, specifically the hubs, studs, an an assortment of suspension components to see stresses that are no where near 'ideal', but how detrimental is this? Only time will tell.

Odds are, at least from what I've seen first hand, the wheels being out of balance aren't going to cause any sort of dramatic failure (or at least when they're as out of balance as mine are) it's more of a prolonged 'wearing out' effect where anything that is already worn from the previous 230,000 miles of life is essentially given that last little bit to make it need to be replaced.

Considering how long I've had the wheels for (Now going on roughly 20k miles an 1.25 years) it's a bit late for me to ask for a replacement, and quite honestly, the balancing quirk doesn't bother me all that much. The wheels will cause a very specific vibration when driven at about 75mph-80mph and it slowly tapers off after about 10mph above that speed.

I've seen a bunch of cheap 'Asian' castings that have been X-Rayed, and they all show similar traits, specifically that there are either voids (porosity) or areas of varying density (can be a reflection on the metal composition or the casting process) and I'd imagine that the same is true for a lot of (most of) the cheap wheels out there.

510_j
10-17-2013, 09:48 AM
Rotas are one thing....XXRs is a whole another story.


what do you mean

DJ 21o3
10-17-2013, 10:05 AM
Rota makes some of Toyota's OEM rims so their quality has gone up. I plan on getting Rota P45r for my S13 build so I can finish all of the car's footwork this winter and won't mind bashing them while drifting. The rims currently on the car are impossible to balance so anything will be an improvement currently.

Next year, I will be buying Work Emotion CR Kais for my street/show/auto-x rims. I would rather not break a Work rim when I could buy 2 Rota rims for the price of one CR Kai.

racepar1
10-17-2013, 11:18 AM
what do you mean

Rota is a quality wheel manufacturer that does OE work. They just blatantly rip off anyone that comes out with a cool design.

XXR is basically bottom of the barrel. That is the lowest "name brand" wheels that you can get. Those are for smashing into stuff on drift cars or for cheap-o fanboys generally.

510_j
10-17-2013, 12:46 PM
so you are saying rotas are better than xxrs?

racepar1
10-17-2013, 12:48 PM
so you are saying rotas are better than xxrs?

In my opinion, yes...

I'm pretty sure most would agree as well.

XXR's have a reputation for being heavy and poorly cast. Maybe the new ones are better, but that's their reputation.

!Zar!
10-18-2013, 02:39 AM
Rota makes some of Toyota's OEM rims so their quality has gone up.

Sources ?

genericforumname
10-18-2013, 03:32 AM
Rota makes some of Toyota's OEM rims

Sources ?

I have a hard time believing this myself.

The Dude
10-18-2013, 04:17 AM
According to their website Rota has made OEM wheels for numerous companies, including Toyota. I have no idea if this is still the case though.
Our History - ROTA Wheels (http://www.rotawheels.com/hist.shtml)

I've never had any Rotas but a buddy of mine has had a couple sets and never had a problem with them. I have had 2 bent OEM Enkei wheels on my Miata....but my wife drives it quite a bit so that could be the problem.

s13silvia123
10-18-2013, 06:33 AM
In my opinion, yes...

I'm pretty sure most would agree as well.

XXR's have a reputation for being heavy and poorly cast. Maybe the new ones are better, but that's their reputation.

Explain this in a engineer's perspective. What is poorly cast? What causes poor casting? Explain the issues of a die cast mold that causes casting problems among products? Name 5 common issues of poor casting. How do you know the by-product of the rims causes weight issues.? What kinds of metals make up the rims to make rims strong?

bigs
10-18-2013, 06:40 AM
really wish the video of the CEO of Rota wheels didn't get deleted from youtube...it was great.

yes this is him
http://i.imgur.com/Myx0N.png

DJ 21o3
10-18-2013, 11:03 AM
Rota is a quality wheel manufacturer that does OE work..

I am not the only one that has said they do OE work. I will search for a good reliable source later but read this for now: Question on Durability of ROTA Wheels? | CustomPinoyRides.com - Pinoy Pride In Our Rides! (http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/question-on-durability-of-rota-wheels/)

No I am not a ROTA fan boi. I do not fully agree with author with some of his beliefs, but he does have some facts there.
I would love to buy some Work XD9s or CR Kais but I simply don't have the money right now and I NEED new rims. Since I am doing a 5-lug swap, I might as well grab some Rotas that should hold up fine to my abuse while I save to finish my suspension rather than buy insane rims.

DJ 21o3
10-18-2013, 11:11 AM
Not the most reliable source (at least according to my English professor) but...check out xtremeyolks post where he quoted Dan from Wheeldude. Sometimes we need to piece the information together for ourselves, rather than have it handed to us ;)

So are Rota wheels that bad? - Page 3 - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-tires-wheels/182933-so-rota-wheels-bad-3.html)

STR8 H8N
10-18-2013, 11:26 AM
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6132/rota8.jpg

all show no go
10-18-2013, 11:27 AM
I simply don't have the money right now and I NEED new rims. Since I am doing a 5-lug swap, I might as well grab some Rotas that should hold up fine to my abuse while I save to finish my suspension rather than buy insane rims.

S14 SE wheels, hold up GREAT, and allow you to save.. or pay a bit more & get R33 wheels.

racepar1
10-18-2013, 11:46 AM
Explain this in a engineer's perspective. What is poorly cast? What causes poor casting? Explain the issues of a die cast mold that causes casting problems among products? Name 5 common issues of poor casting. How do you know the by-product of the rims causes weight issues.? What kinds of metals make up the rims to make rims strong?

Typically the grain of lower quality cast wheels is much more "coarse", so to speak. This makes it much more likely for the wheel to break, rather than bend. Also there can be small voids in the finished casting itself which can cause balancing issues. That has already been a complaint of another member in this thread. I am not a casting expert, but I do at least know some basics. I think the higher quality cast wheels are using either a high-pressure or vacuum casting method, maybe combined with a spin mold. The lower quality wheels are likely low-pressure cast, no spin casting, probably at a lower temperature, which would explain the "coarser" grain of the metal and the issues with voids in the casting.

Rota DOES have a history of breaking, but I don't think I've heard of many issues with the P45R's or Grids, which is what most of you fuckwads are drooling over. I wouldn't use a Rota as anything more than a disposable track wheel. I wouldn't use an XXR at all, unless I got them for free or something that is...

Rota has been an OE wheel manufacturer for years, TONS of companies do at least some OE work. Mainly Korean or Chinese stuff, with some scattered Japanese work as well. This doesn't necessarily mean that their aftermarket wheel quality is equal though. Also, you've gotta remember that most OE wheels are heavy because they've gotta be as close to indestructible as reasonably possible. It's not hard to make a strong wheel that's 2x the weight of what the aftermarket buyer would want in that size.

shogun!
10-18-2013, 11:53 AM
10" rear
9.5" front

http://www.speedcars.fr/3762-3800-thickbox/jante-rota-grid-drift-ik-f-18-x-85-et-44-5x100-hyper-black.jpg

http://www1.garaget.org/archive/6/5284/299009/large_299009-2970480.jpg

http://www1.garaget.org/archive/6/5284/299009/large_299009-2922275.jpg

thefro526
10-21-2013, 02:36 PM
Typically the grain of lower quality cast wheels is much more "coarse", so to speak. This makes it much more likely for the wheel to break, rather than bend. Also there can be small voids in the finished casting itself which can cause balancing issues. That has already been a complaint of another member in this thread. I am not a casting expert, but I do at least know some basics. I think the higher quality cast wheels are using either a high-pressure or vacuum casting method, maybe combined with a spin mold. The lower quality wheels are likely low-pressure cast, no spin casting, probably at a lower temperature, which would explain the "coarser" grain of the metal and the issues with voids in the casting.

From my experience, all of this is pretty much right on the money, especially for the purpose of the arguments being made in this thread.

I don't know the specifics of Rota's Manufacturing processes, but I can imagine that at a certain level, they need to cheap out on some of the tooling for their 'custom wheels' due to the production volume - specifically the molds themselves. Unless they've streamlined their production model quite a bit, they probably make dozens of different molds for a given wheel 'style', and considering the amount of different sizes and combinations they offer, the molds are probably made in the cheapest way that will produce an 'acceptable' wheel.

There's also the interesting, and often endless, question of the raw material itself. Depending on where and how they source their materials, it could be one of a bunch of different things, and they honestly may not know 'exactly' what it is. I have seen this first hand, where a certain grade of material is requested, verified by the supplier, and is still not what a final part is made out of. The supplier will honestly believe that this is what was used, only to find out that their supplier decided to supply something 'similar' to the requested material.


Rota DOES have a history of breaking, but I don't think I've heard of many issues with the P45R's or Grids, which is what most of you fuckwads are drooling over. I wouldn't use a Rota as anything more than a disposable track wheel. I wouldn't use an XXR at all, unless I got them for free or something that is...

Rota has been an OE wheel manufacturer for years, TONS of companies do at least some OE work. Mainly Korean or Chinese stuff, with some scattered Japanese work as well. This doesn't necessarily mean that their aftermarket wheel quality is equal though. Also, you've gotta remember that most OE wheels are heavy because they've gotta be as close to indestructible as reasonably possible. It's not hard to make a strong wheel that's 2x the weight of what the aftermarket buyer would want in that size.


Highlighted some solid points here.

I did some digging a year or two ago before I bought my Grids, just to see if there were any abnormal failure issues with any of their 'larger' wheels, and at least from what I found, there were very rare, if they even happened at all. Most of the broken wheels seemed to have been some of the smaller styles, especially those popular for Hondas and other small cars, and especially wheels with an inherently weak spoke design. It's interesting if you look at a lot of the failure cases in detail, a lot of them show a relatively high horsepower car, with a big sticky tire doing hard launches... The fact that the owners didn't think 'Hey, I'm making 400 horsepower with launch control and I've got these big 'ole slicks - maybe I should make sure that my wheels aren't going to destroy themselves from the loading'... But nope, they blame the wheel that they obviously cheaped out on.

You also mentioned the concept of a 'disposable' wheel, which I really, really am a fan of. There's a certain feeling of freedom when you're driving around on a wheel that you really don't care about scratching/damaging/destroying, etc. Sure they might not be the strongest, or the coolest, but they're cheap and easy.

Also, on the subject of OEM vs aftermarket, I agree. (see my comments above about tooling) If a manufacturer gets a contract order for tens of thousands of wheels, then they're probably going to have a few factors in play that aren't necessarily true for the aftermarket, the most important of those being the shear volume of the production. It's really easy invest a lot of money in proper tooling when you're making thousands and thousands of identical components, but not so easy when you're making dozens or hundreds of something.

But yeah, this is a long post that's probably pointless.