S13 Blacktop oil cooler/pressure question

[Mikester]

Sorry if this is more appropriate for the 'small questions' thread:

I'm in the process of putting together a fresh rebuild (long-block profesionally machined/assembled). However, I had it put together with the old oil pump and S13 oil pickup tube. I assume (yes, I know- dirty word) that the shop measured it out before putting the old pump back on.

^^I learned that the S14 pickup was better after the fact (I blame ForeignMuscle for not letting me know ahead of time lol)...

Anyway, on this build, I have a Tomei higher-capacity pan; and plan to install an oil cooler before run-up/tune and I wonder if the OEM pump & S13 pickup will be able to maintain sufficient pressure with the added quantity/volume.

A buddy of mine said his friend's (S14) SR just with a filter relocation kit made the idiot light flicker on/off; and it stopped once he got rid of it & put it back to OEM oil filter location.

Just wondering; if anything to put my mind at ease. Yes, I searched... but this isn't quite a problem- at least not yet ;)

Thanks.

Mike

[davidpham]

^^Have a professional builder build/tune your motor.

[Mister.E]

i never had any issues with oil pressure on my 180sx when i installed the KTS oversized oil pan, greddy filter relocation, and Earl's oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator. you should be fine.

[cotbu]

The problem with the pickup was the welds wasn't it.
And if you happened to smash the pan, it would break or the pickup mouth wasn't able to suck oil in. My thought on this was to modify the pick mouth with extra holes around the mouth area, and to shut down the engine if there was a possibility that the pan got damaged.

[Mikester]

http://www.zeroyon.com/public/style_emoticons/default/captainobvious.jpg

Thanks... Profesionally built as stated; and they will be doing first crank, run-up & tune.

i never had any issues with oil pressure on my 180sx when i installed the KTS oversized oil pan, greddy filter relocation, and Earl's oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator. you should be fine.

Good to know... Thank you. I don't drift- this car will only see spirited driving, some 1/4mi runs and road course/backroads here & there... less than 1,200mi per year (fair weather garage queen).

The problem with the pickup was the welds wasn't it.
And if you happened to smash the pan, it would break or the pickup mouth wasn't able to suck oil in. My thought on this was to modify the pick mouth with extra holes around the mouth area, and to shut down the engine if there was a possibility that the pan got damaged.

Also good to know- thank you sir! The Tomei pan is pretty badass- it actually sits above the member, which to me is STELLAR b/c the member would have to give way long before the pan ever got touched :)

Also, other than my boost gauge, I run an oil pressure gauge for this very reason. Anything else I need to see, I can view on my Commander when I get around to it.

Because notracecar ;)

Thanks for the replies guys~

[fliprayzin240sx]

Honestly, the stock SR oil pumps suck to begin with but not so shitty that it would kill the engine if you have an oil cooler. Specially on cold start, your pressure should shoot up to about 4 bar at idle. The issue you'd have is when the oil gets up to temp and you'd be looking at about 14-16 psi pressure. IIRC, FSM minimum for oil pressure at idle is about 10 psi but the dummy light wont kick on till about 8 psi.

[Mister.E]

The issue you'd have is when the oil gets up to temp and you'd be looking at about 14-16 psi pressure. IIRC, FSM minimum for oil pressure at idle is about 10 psi but the dummy light wont kick on till about 8 psi.

true story. my oil pressure was always great during a cold start, but after a few laps around the track it would be stupid low.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Mike, in my opinion I would stay away from coolers and relocation kits. I'd rock your larger Tomei pan and call it good. You'll never drive that car hard enough to cook the oil like your thinking. As I don't believe the factory oil pump has enough to support all those lines and coolers.

Come talk to me.

[Mikester]

^^Will do Kyle... Problem is I already have the Tomei oil block mounted, so there is no turning back from at least the relocation kit... As far as the cooler goes, I got a rockin' deal on the one I have, so why not use it?
I'll never drift this car, but I'm definitely going to DRIVE the shit out of it... Didn't go to all this trouble to observe the speed limits- and will let a select few of you guys who know what you're doing put it thru its paces if you know what I mean ;)

It's not a matter of whether or not I 'need' it... Did just fine in Okinawa without one. and I'm not worried about ever cooking the oil... Just want to know if it will maintain pressure with the higher volume between the cooler, lines and pan.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Honestly, you got it...fucking run it. Just keep an eye at your oil pressure, specially at temp idle. Also helps to run heavier Mobil 1 15-50W in the summer when it gets hot as shit. Your running your AC too Mike?

You can always go buy a Tomei oil pump gear to bump your oil pressure...

[BlackZenkiS14]

Because I'm 90% sure the reason Conrad's motor failed was because his pump couldn't keep up with all that shit.

And because you'll never drive it hard enough. I HOT LAP track my car rgularly, literally as hard as you can, and I've never had a problem with oil temp.

Also, you have a Greddy intake, you don't need a relocation kit, it's super easy to get to with out one. And you can sell it.

I'm just trying to look out for you man.

[Croustibat]

^^Will do Kyle... Problem is I already have the Tomei oil block mounted, so there is no turning back from at least the relocation kit... As far as the cooler goes, I got a rockin' deal on the one I have, so why not use it?
I'll never drift this car, but I'm definitely going to DRIVE the shit out of it... Didn't go to all this trouble to observe the speed limits- and will let a select few of you guys who know what you're doing put it thru its paces if you know what I mean ;)

It's not a matter of whether or not I 'need' it... Did just fine in Okinawa without one. and I'm not worried about ever cooking the oil... Just want to know if it will maintain pressure with the higher volume between the cooler, lines and pan.

It should not drop pressure, not much anyway ... When someone sees pressure drop after installing an oil cooler, it means either something was wrongly assembled or his oil pump is worn.

You got a good deal on it ? Then sell it and make money. I honestly would not add anything on the oiling system if it is not needed, that is asking for trouble. More connectors and more hoses means more chances to kill your engine if they leak / burst. So i am going the "Keep It Simple Stupid" way.

You really dont need that oil cooler if you dont drift. Adding complexity to a system always add a chance for bad things to happen ...

anyway if you still plan on installing it though, at least get it with some thermostatic plate. You dont want oil to cool when it still needs to warm.

[Mikester]

Honestly, you got it...fucking run it. Your running your AC too Mike?

You can always go buy a Tomei oil pump gear to bump your oil pressure...

Yes, running AC too... I will watch the oil pressure very closely. If I see any issues, I will change the pump/gear/cover. Anything beyond that, I will start removing stuff and starting FS threads ;)

Because I'm 90% sure the reason Conrad's motor failed was because his pump couldn't keep up with all that shit.

And because you'll never drive it hard enough. I HOT LAP track my car rgularly, literally as hard as you can, and I've never had a problem with oil temp.

Also, you have a Greddy intake, you don't need a relocation kit, it's super easy to get to with out one. And you can sell it.

I'm just trying to look out for you man.

I know you are, and I appreciate it dude. It will be driven hard, just not sideways. Conrad's motor also could have failed for other reasons, too- shit happens quick when sitting at high RPM/high load.

It should not drop pressure, not much anyway ... When someone sees pressure drop after installing an oil cooler, it means either something was wrongly assembled or his oil pump is worn.

You got a good deal on it ? Then sell it and make money. I honestly would not add anything on the oiling system if it is not needed, that is asking for trouble. More connectors and more hoses means more chances to kill your engine if they leak / burst. So i am going the "Keep It Simple Stupid" way.

You really dont need that oil cooler if you dont drift. Adding complexity to a system always add a chance for bad things to happen ...

anyway if you still plan on installing it though, at least get it with some thermostatic plate. You dont want oil to cool when it still needs to warm.

Got it, thank you sir- The relocation plate is the GREX one with the thermostat on it, the cooler core is HKS; and the lines are Summit/Earls -10AN... all quality stuff... and I don't want to sell it without giving it a try first unless someone can tell me 100% for sure that there will be bad consequences.

I'm sure you have read enough of my posts to know that I am not a fan of adding potential points of failure to any system; but in this case, minus the cooler- it will add maintenance-friendliness, which I am a huge fan of.

I don't like reaching down to pull the filter off the block. No matter how hard one tries, oil will always spill out. May sound eccentric, but I am not a spilling oil onto anything where I can't get to it to wipe it up kinda guy lol

Thanks again for the input guys. Right or wrong, gonna press forward with it and see what happens. Will report back once she's up & running.

[Croustibat]

Yes, i know you usually go the simplest / efficient way, that is why i pointed it out. This is not your usual way of doing things :D At least you got quality components, so just double check everything.

Changing oil is usually a pain when oil coolers are fitted, too ... you will see :p

[Mikester]

^^ Yea I know :facepalm:

Mounting it where the drain plug will be relatively accessible... but not looking forward to that aspect of it at all.

[fliprayzin240sx]

If you're gonna keep your AC and driving it in the summer...stock fan and shroud!!! Fuck E-fans.

[jamg]

running all those accessories should be fine....

oil pressure is a closed system, as long as you have enough oil to make up for oil that is is the lines/oil cooler, it should be fine.

i have the same oil pan, and i'm running an oil cooler as well as an oil filer relocation. just pour a little extra oil to make up for what sits in the cooler/lines and you'll be fine.

[Mikester]

If you're gonna keep your AC and driving it in the summer...stock fan and shroud!!! Fuck E-fans.

GKtech clutch fan w/OEM shroud FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

Efans will never be my thing~

[Mikester]

Since I already started this thread...

I am finally to the point of hard-mounting the cooler... Since it will initially be isolated from the rest of the system due to the thermostat on the filter block being closed, do I need to fill the cooler with oil when I mount it?

[vehicle336]

Since I already started this thread...

I am finally to the point of hard-mounting the cooler... Since it will initially be isolated from the rest of the system due to the thermostat on the filter block being closed, do I need to fill the cooler with oil when I mount it?

I have no experience in this so don't take my word for it, but in thinking about the oil supply, if there's air where there should be oil anywhere on initial startup I can't imagine that leading to good things. I can't imagine it hurting to add some...

[Mikester]

^^Right...

I've searched several oil cooler installation guides... None of them mention pre-servicing the cooler; which doesn't seem right to me.

[jr_ss]

It's always a good to prime the system first Mike. If you have a means to bypass the thermostat to fill the lines, do it. I have the same task ahead of me.

[Mister.E]

Since I already started this thread...

I am finally to the point of hard-mounting the cooler... Since it will initially be isolated from the rest of the system due to the thermostat on the filter block being closed, do I need to fill the cooler with oil when I mount it?

i always fill the cooler core with oil whenever it is empty; whether it be a new install or a full oil change.

[quickdiversion]

Sorry if this is more appropriate for the 'small questions' thread:

I'm in the process of putting together a fresh rebuild (long-block profesionally machined/assembled). However, I had it put together with the old oil pump and S13 oil pickup tube. I assume (yes, I know- dirty word) that the shop measured it out before putting the old pump back on.

^^I learned that the S14 pickup was better after the fact (I blame ForeignMuscle for not letting me know ahead of time lol)...

Anyway, on this build, I have a Tomei higher-capacity pan; and plan to install an oil cooler before run-up/tune and I wonder if the OEM pump & S13 pickup will be able to maintain sufficient pressure with the added quantity/volume.

A buddy of mine said his friend's (S14) SR just with a filter relocation kit made the idiot light flicker on/off; and it stopped once he got rid of it & put it back to OEM oil filter location.

Just wondering; if anything to put my mind at ease. Yes, I searched... but this isn't quite a problem- at least not yet ;)

Thanks.

Mike

Just use the pan i am using. It is the Tomei extra capacity pan. It is not deeper like the Greddy one. It's actually the same depth and baffled, it is also made of steel and not aluminum. Might as well keep with Tomei.... Like I did!

[Mikester]

^^LMAO holy crap Bryan, did you even read this thread? :p

I have the Tomei pan installed already... and the oil cooler is mounted- Picking up the last few fittings to finish plumbing it today...

[mattsil80wis]

running all those accessories should be fine....

oil pressure is a closed system, as long as you have enough oil to make up for oil that is is the lines/oil cooler, it should be fine.

i have the same oil pan, and i'm running an oil cooler as well as an oil filer relocation. just pour a little extra oil to make up for what sits in the cooler/lines and you'll be fine.



i think the thing that most ppl forget is the extra oil that is needed to fill all the extra room your adding. I would make sure to just have enough oil in the system and it shouldnt be a problem

i personally wouldnt run the cooler (for what your going to do) and i would sell it to make some extra cash, but hell if you have it mounted and almost set up then go with it

[Mikester]

It's going to go on road trips in the dead of summer with the AC blasting, get beat on at the dragstrip/circuit & backroads... Maybe not needed per se... but could come in handy here & there ;)

[quickdiversion]

^^LMAO holy crap Bryan, did you even read this thread? :p

I have the Tomei pan installed already... and the oil cooler is mounted- Picking up the last few fittings to finish plumbing it today...

Actually I did not!!

I was on the crapper at work and wanted to post bomb you when I did it!!!

[quickdiversion]

i think the thing that most ppl forget is the extra oil that is needed to fill all the extra room your adding. I would make sure to just have enough oil in the system and it shouldnt be a problem

i personally wouldnt run the cooler (for what your going to do) and i would sell it to make some extra cash, but hell if you have it mounted and almost set up then go with it

Good point.
With my filter relocation, 14 row cooler, and tomei pan.
I am a little over 6.5 quarts of oil for my system