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View Full Version : roll over dangers from parking lot autoXing


NinjaGaiden
03-23-2004, 05:19 PM
My co-worker and I are going to split an s13 coupe within a week or two for track, autoXing and drifting.

For the autoXing and drifting events done in a parking lot. If it is a big parking lot without anything you can hit, is there any way to roll the car over? or any dangers in rolling the car?

My co worker wants to get an $800 helmet because he thinks there is such a danger? I told him unless the car hits something stuck on the ground when it is drifting, it will not roll over; it may understeer or oversteer, but it will not roll over.

What do you guys think? Have any of you seen cars roll over when autoXing or drifting in a big parking lot?

hookedup240
03-23-2004, 05:26 PM
it could happen, but its not likely that it will as long as you arent drifting in the rain and hit a dry patch really hard you should be ok.

goodjuan
03-23-2004, 05:32 PM
My co-worker and I are going to split an s13 coupe within a week or two for track, autoXing and drifting.

For the autoXing and drifting events done in a parking lot. If it is a big parking lot without anything you can hit, is there any way to roll the car over? or any dangers in rolling the car?

My co worker wants to get an $800 helmet because he thinks there is such a danger? I told him unless the car hits something stuck on the ground when it is drifting, it will not roll over; it may understeer or oversteer, but it will not roll over.

What do you guys think? Have any of you seen cars roll over when autoXing or drifting in a big parking lot?


I've only done a handful of events...just one in the rain. I can say that i've felt more likely to roll over on the off ramp during the commute to the event. :hsdance: have fun!

Wei240
03-23-2004, 05:38 PM
800 helmet... wow

what about a roll cage?

you could roll over, but it has to be somewhat extreme...
higher speeds will increase the chance of one, so is crappy suspension, wheels/tires...

Bbandit
03-23-2004, 05:56 PM
most autocrosses wont allow speed to go over 60mph.. in other word.. you wont be seeing 3rd gear in most autocrosses..
i've been autocrossing for +3years now and i havent seen any car flipped over... although i've seen some wrecks.. but none of em rolled...

things happen man but rolling over has more chance to happen in road racing...

wishihadasilvia
03-23-2004, 05:59 PM
yeah rollover in a drift event is possible but almost impossible. As long as u set up the suspension for drifting IE little body roll and stiff travel the chance of rollover in a flat parkinglot is almost impossible. Additionally a helmet is nessacery at most track events anyway for liablity reasons, but invest in a roll cage for the car before you invest to much in a "roll cage" for you dome

Dousan_PG
03-23-2004, 07:30 PM
parking lots, not likely
real track, definately possible, yes even drifting
hit some soft dirt sideways at a nice speed....get ready for a wild ride
ive seen cars roll at evenst, but they ahve been grip...havent seen a drift one yet, but i know its happenned in so cali at the track. anyways..unlikely

if he's really THAT nervous, i dont think motorsports would be his best bet..stick with GT3

tsunami0ne
03-23-2004, 07:45 PM
an 800 dollar helmet for auto-x drifitng is excessive.

C.
03-23-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by NinjaGaiden
My co-worker and I are going to split an s13 coupe within a week or two for track, autoXing and drifting.

For the autoXing and drifting events done in a parking lot. If it is a big parking lot without anything you can hit, is there any way to roll the car over? or any dangers in rolling the car?

My co worker wants to get an $800 helmet because he thinks there is such a danger? I told him unless the car hits something stuck on the ground when it is drifting, it will not roll over; it may understeer or oversteer, but it will not roll over.

What do you guys think? Have any of you seen cars roll over when autoXing or drifting in a big parking lot?
It is possible, but is not very likely, he would have to be pushing the car very, VERY hard, and considering the fact that he’s willing to spending $800 on just a helmet leads me to believe that he doesn't have the balls to push it hard enough to flip it over.
BTW I am not trying to offend you (or him) this is just my opinion.

Halz
03-24-2004, 12:11 AM
http://www.waiautox.org/2000/saturn.jpg
This picture ought to calm his nerves

Bbandit
03-24-2004, 12:14 AM
^^^^^ HOLY CRAP!!!! wtf!!>!!?! how fast was he going? or maybe he has some very very very sticky tires...

NinjaGaiden
03-24-2004, 12:16 AM
lol, nice saturn

Nah, this guy is really cool, but he just takes very good care about his health and safety. The guy rides a motorcycle, so i'm sure he isn't scared of a little autoXing. We just got in a debate whether the 240 would roll if it took a turn hard enough, and i wouldnt' think it would. Mine either oversteers or understeers.

Thanks for the response guys.

Cheers.

thx247
03-24-2004, 12:56 AM
Its never going to roll with anything less than slicks on it.

800$ could almost buy another 240

Wei240
03-24-2004, 01:01 AM
haha, that's a cool saturn pic,
man, imagine sitting in the car and anticipating the bounce/slam...

Matt_240
03-24-2004, 02:23 AM
at the last drift session, an rx7(1st gen) rolled over doin choku dori. i dont know how fast he was going or what happened, but all i know is that rollovers do happen and you can never be too careful. the car was driveable afterwards and the driver didn't suffer any injuries, but it was pretty messed up.

nokeone
03-24-2004, 12:23 PM
yeah i've seen two rollovers at Buttonwillow and one at Streets of Willow Springs...all three were during grip sessions...two were the result of soft dirt hit sideways while going off track...and one due to clipping a corner berm at the wrong angle (this one was very unlucky and just by chance)...never seen one at any parking lot events, autocrosses, or drift sessions...

roll cage before an expensive helmet...if the roof caves in and breaks your neck a helmet aint doing shit...plus with the current rating and safety standards anything SA-2000 is pretty damn safe...the expense is for a lighter weight helmet most of the time...

sykikchimp
03-24-2004, 12:54 PM
Price of a helmet should never be a concern. Proper fitment, and comfort should be. (and sometimes aerodynamics if your in an open-top racecar) As was already said by Nokeone, the helmets are all built to meet their ratings. How safe they are is right there.

Helmet ratings are good for 10 years. Make sure you buy something you'll be willing to use for that long.

Roll cage isn't necessary at parking lot speeds or even at HPDE's and track events... Helmet is always mandatory.

I will be the odd ball here and say if it takes an $800 helmet to be comfortable then so be it. It's still more important than the roll cage.

And rollovers, and accidents do happen. It's a calculated risk we all take when we participate in motorsports.

nokeone
03-24-2004, 01:05 PM
^^ i hope my post wasn't misinterpretted...i certainly wasn't trying to imply that i would choose to have a roll cage in a car before a helmet on my head...lol...i was just trying to convey that 800$ is better spent elsewhere when you can get a Bell Helmet with an SA2000 rating for $299 online...

:bow:

Var
03-24-2004, 02:06 PM
Overpriced Helmet=$800 you get a pretty looking helmet


4 point Roll Bar+decent helmet=$600 you get a stiffer chassis, car feels more nimble, plus you're safer for rollover. and a roll cage/bar looks better than any helmet

240 2NR
03-24-2004, 06:04 PM
I second the above post.

If you're really that concerned with rolling the 240, I'd get the roll bar and $300 helmet (and if you've got the roll bar you might as well throw on a 5/6 point harness), over throwing all your eggs in one basket so to speak with the $800 helmet.

Not only is that likely to be the safer setup, you'll get the additional benefits of a stiffer chassis and that ultra cool race look of having a roll bar.

MovinUp-1
03-25-2004, 12:58 PM
You don't need a roll bar for autocrossing a 240sx. I've seen three incidents where a car rolled, including the pics of the saturn. That saturn did that because he was on stock very soft suspension and the course and tires were very very sticky. Plus the corner was slightly off camber. The other incident I saw a VW rabbit rolled at the fourth cone in a slalom. Another case of soft suspension, very sticky tires, and overcorrecting in a turn.

The third incident the car went off track and into a ditch because the kid never took his foot off the gas pedal.

Don't worry about rolling your car at an SCCA autocross. It just ain't gonna happen with a 240. A good helmet is never a bad idea, although I will say you can get the same level of protection from a $250 helmet as you can from an $800 helmet.

wishihadasilvia
03-25-2004, 09:11 PM
one other thing, he said the guys into motorcycles, and i might guess its a Crotch rocket. he would have a helmet from that which would be just fine to use inside a car since its designed to go toe-toe with pavement. rollcage+ bike helmet= real safe

Var
03-25-2004, 09:29 PM
i bought my bike helmet(arai) for 450 bucks and the only reason it costs more than a HJC for example is cause it has more vents on it. And i just found out in another thread that it's not legal for use in road racing

thx247
03-25-2004, 11:03 PM
West you can use it for alot of track events, but people that want SA helmets may not allow it. You just have to talk to the event manager or tech chief to see if they will let you use a M helmet for that event. More events allow M helmets than require SA only.

LanceS13
03-26-2004, 09:36 AM
I've only been to one track event that allowed M helmets...and they highly recommended SA's. M helmets provide little fire protection and are designed for one impact on the pavement, as opposed to having a fire-proof lining and a design with multiple impacts (head banging on roll cage) in mind like SA's.
However, autocross events allow M helmets.

adamhu
03-26-2004, 09:46 AM
re: the slick comment...just to let you know......

you can transfer enough weight with DOT R's to lift even the front wheel in highspeed high G corners..... i did not know until i saw this picture a buddy of mine took of my car.....

and at this particular part i thought the road was just VERY bumpy...since the steering wheel would really shake....when in reality it was the front wheel hitting back down on the ground ....

http://www.turbo240sx.ca/ddttrackwheeloff.jpg

nokeone
03-26-2004, 10:27 AM
you don't need Dot R's to do that...it's a rather common occurrence once you stiffen things up....

case in point with tires that are not exactly gripping...lol..

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/217000-217999/217409_54_full.jpg

adamhu
03-26-2004, 10:38 AM
but...this is at high speed.... note the angle of your wheels...you are turning them sharply...in an auto x

the other pic was taken at 140kph..on a slow wide sweeper

thx247
03-26-2004, 09:28 PM
I was going to say noke, I even lifted a tire in a FWD car on autox. Adams pict is at speed.

Adam- I sent you a question about Toyo's....you check your email or PM's lately? thanks

Zemus
03-27-2004, 11:08 AM
Ive seen 2 cars roll at the track, it looked like the saturn, but it dident make it :(. Rather scary, made me not want to hit up the Highspeed course, kinda creepy

Flybert
03-27-2004, 11:18 AM
An 86 rolled at the Just Drift event at buttonwillow. I think there was a large drop off on the side of the track into soft dirt. 240's have a wider wheel base than the 86 so there is an advantage there.

HaLo
03-29-2004, 06:42 AM
I've seen a car rollover in an auto-x event on a skidpad...

He was rolling in a Suzuki Swift with stock suspension and Dot-R tires... :rolleyes:

DS 240R
03-29-2004, 09:20 AM
you don't need Dot R's to do that...it's a rather common occurrence once you stiffen things up....

I think there's your answer to the question "how stiff is too stiff?" :)

I have never seen a rollover at autox, but more than a handful at the track. Usually soft dirt and bad driving are the culprit.

I'm used to ride and a bunch of other riders I know have the same feelings about helmets- buy whatever is best to protect their head. I agree that you'll get just about the same protection with a $200 helmet as with an $800, but man, once you use one of those super light CF helmets you never want to go back.

zenkiDori
04-07-2004, 06:55 AM
there has been a drifting rollover on a track here, but not in an open area like a parking lot. i would post the video but i'm not sure if my bud who rolled is ok with it.

HippoSleek
04-07-2004, 09:09 AM
Virtually every car I've heard of that rolled at an autox was in the stock class where the only two real mods you are allowed are R compounds and shocks. That is a receipe for rollover.

Doing drifting events though, it seems like that could happen. I'm thinking that sliding around at a high rate of speed to turn tumbly pretty quick if you hit a sticky patch, sealant, joint, etc.

If the car is just a shared toy, why not split the cost of a roll bar? It's allowed in all autox classes, gives you a place to mount harnesses, and will protect you in a number of bad situations. Plus, if you want to drift on a track, it will virtually be a necessity.

JaeTea
04-08-2004, 11:38 AM
If you are worried about rolling over a helmet ain't gonna do squat, espcecially if you are tall like I am.

Like everyone's said if you are worrying about rolling your car you really shouldn't even have to think about buying a roll cage.

I've never seen a rollover but that pic of the Saturn would make me shite in my pants!

MakotoS13
04-23-2004, 09:57 AM
i figured that in most cases a car would lose traction and spin out before actually rolling over. guess i'm in the dark.

sxavior
04-23-2004, 11:08 AM
At my regions most recent scca autocross at the gainesville international raceway test and tune track an old mercedes s class spun off the road and was on 2 wheels in the dirt and almost rolled. Unfortunately I did not see it with my own eyes, I was staged to run next. This is the only time I have ever heard of a vehicle even getting on two wheels and it was only because it was an inexperienced driver in a boat.

Var
04-23-2004, 11:44 AM
i figured that in most cases a car would lose traction and spin out before actually rolling over. guess i'm in the dark.

\
If the suspension allows enough roll with sticky enough tires it could roll. cars with stiffer suspension will slide before this happens.

MakotoS13
04-23-2004, 01:59 PM
\
If the suspension allows enough roll with sticky enough tires it could roll. cars with stiffer suspension will slide before this happens.

that's what i thought.

so the moral of the story is: tighten your shiznit before you hit the track... at least that's how I see it.

rob9246
04-25-2004, 03:46 AM
id give your opinion and leave it at that, imagine if something happens and a better helmet could have reduced an injury.