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View Full Version : 240sx Autox set ups!!


hurleyboi514
02-09-2004, 12:10 PM
im just curious what classes everyone runs and what settings they are using? how well do you guys do. ill start:

as for me, im going to downgrade the car, and run D Street Prepared. i need to reinstall my interior and remove my Z brakes and rear adjustable control arms (toe and camber). this way, i can afford the other mods that are legal in DSP (mostly for an LSD and tires). that way, i can be more competative. if i dont face much competition there, ill bump the car up to SM, where we usually have field of 20-25 vs 7-10 in DSP. i plan on upgrading the shocks soon, as well as the springs to a coilover set up. probably Koni's and ERS Eibachs. hopefully my set up will be:
500/450 lbs spring rates
3* F / 2* R camber
0* F / 0* R toe
sway bar settings not sure about
shock settings not sure about either

the last two settings will probably be determained on race day when im setting up the car for the course. any ideas? suggestions? hints?? :) id like to hear what the rest of you are doing...

LanceS13
02-09-2004, 01:45 PM
I run DSP, and do pretty good considering the car is underprepared. But I'm in a "small pond" area, so I've never gone head-to-head with an all out DSP car except for a well-driven Spec Miata, which beat me by 0.1s on a 100s course. I usually PAX in the top percentile, though.

My current setup is:
225/50/16 Victoracers
KGMM S21 springs (about 240/213 f/r IIRC)
KYB AGX 4/4 front and 3-5/8 rear depending on course
Whiteline sways 2-3/3 front and 1/3 rear depending on course
Camber is 1.75f/1.25r, it needs more on the front (2.5-3.0), but the rear seems near perfect with Victoracers...maybe could use 1.5.
Toe is 0f/0r and will probably stay that way.
My car as it stands really needs an LSD, stiffer springs/coilovers, camber plates, and more power. My engine only has an exhaust and cone filter and removed a/c. If I were building the car for DSP, I'd look into squeezing every ounce of legal power out of it...well, after I got the suspension the way I liked it anyway. Squeezing some 245 Hoosiers under the fenders couldn't hurt either.

AceInHole
02-09-2004, 05:10 PM
I run SM.... took a championship, but I must say it was against a fairly weak field (turbo neon on DOT's was the closest thing to a competitor, but the driver wasn't up to par). Mark Daddio (mazdaspeed challenge winnder, CMod national champion in 2004) did 1 event in SM before he switched over to CMod, where he kicked all our asses (although my car was NOT prepped well at the time and I was a sucky driver still). Towards the end of the year I was starting to place better in the overall PAX in a very competitive region, though.

This year I'm running:
KSport coilovers 9/7 springrates (roughly 500/ 400)
Whiteline sways on full stiff
245/45/R16 Victoracers (41psi front, 35 - 38 psi rear)
2.5* front, 2.25* rear camber
0 toe

I usually ran 8psi last year (KA-T), but I've modified my setup to have better part- throttle response/ steadyness, so I may run 10. Drivetrain consists of a SPEC S3 clutch, OBX short shifter, J30 VLSD.

LanceS13
02-09-2004, 06:36 PM
Forgot tire pressures. 31-33 psi front, 28-31 psi rear depending on "grippiness" of the competition surface.
Ace, why do you run yours so high? I start at the higher pressures I mentioned and reduce the pressure until they rollover to the little arrows on the upper sidewall...I figured that was a pretty good method in the absense of a tire pyrometer.

Flybert
02-09-2004, 11:26 PM
I thought for autocross that you would like a lot of toe for instant response. Must not be true if you guys have different plans.

HaLo
02-10-2004, 06:15 AM
I run in SM, took rookie of the year all categories in my area. I was running street tires.

Next year, I'll run some Yokohama A032R-H or A048R on SSR mesh.

My current suspension setup:
AGX+GC 425/375lbs
Front and rear STB
Front Urethance TC rod bushings
Rear Subframe spacers

Running on a S15 T28 on the SR with FMIC and 3" exhaust at 10 psi on auto-x days.

I haven't learned much about better camber degrees. I do know that this year I'll be playing with tire pressures and damping adjustments with new tires. Race tires are the same.

Exessive26
02-10-2004, 08:44 AM
Well this year i'm running SM (need slicks) But for now setup is..
Tein HE's at 12 in front and 7-8 in back. The ST sway's, SPL T/C rods, VLSD :nono:, sublockers, muchO bracing, and PDM poly controle arms.
Wheels are spec-V 17's with beef spacer, and 225 Falken Az's (only on front for 1st event due to bent rear wheel) I'm running around 10psi wich was about perfect. :eek3d:

fastpace
02-10-2004, 11:42 AM
I also need to work on my setup this year. I did my first autox this past sunday since last year and noticed that my suspension needs tuning. I didn't even check my tire pressure. I should have. I have tein he with 8/6 springs, hicas rear sway bar, sub-frame spacers, tc rods, nismo powerbrace, and also 205/50/15 yoko avs tires.

My first run I put the front and rear at full stiffness and had crazy turn in response, but also tons of oversteer. The second run I left the front full stiff and then changed the rear to half the stiffness of before and the car felt good, but still needed more tuning in the rear and also the front.

So the thing I am going to do is mess with the setup more to provide me with a balance feel and suitable to my driving style.

MovinUp-1
02-10-2004, 11:50 AM
Interesting setups some of you have. The rear spring rates you're running are kind of surprising. I was running 500fr 375r on koni yellows. I got the konis revalved over the winter because they were not controlling the springs well, and I had the rears made externally adjustable. I'm going to lower my front springs to 450 and the rears to 350, see if that improves the grip levels.

I use whiteline sway bars front set middle rear set soft. The car needs more camber than I was running so I am changing that to 2.75 fr and 2 or 2.25 rear. I was running 1/8 toe out in front and 0 toe in rear. I'm going to bring the toe in a little on the rear. I have a bit too much oversteer.

My roll bar adds quite a bit of chassis stiffness so that could have something to do with our varying spring rates, as well as the type of surface we normally run on. I usually run around 12psi with an SAFC and profec-b.

DS 240R
02-10-2004, 12:05 PM
Interesting setups some of you have. The rear spring rates you're running are kind of surprising. I was running 500fr 375r on koni yellows. I got the konis revalved over the winter because they were not controlling the springs well, and I had the rears made externally adjustable. I'm going to lower my front springs to 450 and the rears to 350, see if that improves the grip levels.

I forget- are the Yellows dual adjustable or single? IMHO, the higher spring rate you go, the more you need dual adjustable because of the disparity between compression and rebound dampening. When we went from 425 to 650 springs in the NX, the compression dampening didn't need to change, but the rebound sure did.

If the yellows are single adjustable, maybe the problem is too much compression dampening on your setup? Too much compression made our car feel skittish and less grippy. Not sure if the yellows can be revalved for independent bump/rebound.

MovinUp-1
02-10-2004, 04:46 PM
Sorry, but the problem was exactly the opposite of what you describe. Koni yellows do not have enough compression from the factory to contend with a 500lb spring on a 240. Yellows are rebound adjustable only. The re-valving seems to have worked like I expected it to. No more porpoising over bumps in the middle of a turn. Koni yellows can be made to be externally compression adjustable but at that point you're really better off selling what you have and getting a koni DA shock instead.

DS 240R
02-10-2004, 04:56 PM
Sorry, but the problem was exactly the opposite of what you describe.

You're right, I got my compression and rebound mixed up. I've got the 8611 DAs and I'm always getting the botton and top confused :)

hurleyboi514
02-10-2004, 08:40 PM
awesome, this is all very good... allen, what size tires are you running? the reason for the high rear spring rates would be to make up for the 245 in the rear vs the 225 in the front. another option my room mate brought up, is the new JIC FLT-A1 (US). it looks to be a very nice set up.... its not that expensive, and ive already got camber plates. hmmm.... dunno, ive got 4 weeks until the next event, ill probably run the set up i have now (AGX's with RSR race springs and HKS camber plates) with race tires (A032R) and see how it goes! then, ill deterimine if i need to change anything...

MovinUp-1
02-10-2004, 09:55 PM
First thing I would change is burn up those yokohamas and get a set of kumhos. BIG difference. I'm running 245/45/16 all around. I'm a little nervous about JIC. I sold a set of FLTA2s to a guy last year and he has had no problems at all. Another guy I know has the same coilovers on his 240 for some time and hasn't had any problems either. But I have heard of several people around the country complaining that their JICs were defective and the customer service from them was terrible.

You have the right idea to run what you have now then see what, if any, changes you want to make. But trust me, the kumhos will lower your lap times over the yokohamas.

hurleyboi514
02-11-2004, 07:58 AM
heres the deal though... i should be able to get them for about 200-300! :) my friend used them on his s2000 at 2 events. he wants to get the new AS04 hoosier, so he's gonna either sell them to me, or maybe even give them to me if i install his Koni's! so, thats the reason for the advans. i also like to track the car, and they should hold up better on it id imagine. they wont wear out so fast like the kumhos. maybe someone can tell me other wise. have you run them on a track??

and about the JIC's, im questionable too, thats why i was only looking into it! :) its mostly the non motorsports guys that edorse them, so i dunno. full, real competition is different that spirited mountain driving. thanks for the tips btw...

sykikchimp
02-11-2004, 11:59 AM
I need to get out to the next auto-x..

I haven't got the oppertunity to run the car on a track recently, but here is my setup:

JIC FLT-A2's - dampening 11/16 front, 3/16 rear
camber 2* F/ 1.5* R
toe 0* F/ 1/16* R
Caster 8* F

Falken Azenis. Can't remember pressures. I'm pretty sure hot pressures were around 38 psi front, 40 psi rear.

Car was still a little loose, but completely controlable. Would have benefited from probably a 1 psi drop in the rear. Only reason I didn't change it was b/c I felt it was a pretty good learning experience to drive with it a bit more loose than I would like.

Replicant_S14
02-11-2004, 12:44 PM
I run a 95 SE in STS class. The car has agxs w/whiteline springs and bars, 205 Azenis on OE wheels. Other goofy stuff too..intake , exhaust etc. Tire pressure depend on course and temps. Sways are med in front and full stiff in rear. Camber is -2.5º frnt -2.0º rear.

I do ok. Our region has a field of about 20 regular STS drivers and I placed 3rd overall in my second season of auto-xing.

Rennen
02-11-2004, 01:09 PM
G-Stock!!!!! :goyou:

205/50/15 Falken Azenis
40 Front, 38-35 Rear depending on how much my car decides to rotate that day.

-Matt

hurleyboi514
02-12-2004, 08:11 AM
G-Stock!!!!! :goyou:

205/50/15 Falken Azenis
40 Front, 38-35 Rear depending on how much my car decides to rotate that day.

-Matt

gotta start somewhere!! i ran Gstock for 6 months....

JamesC89
02-12-2004, 12:01 PM
Ok, well I ran in STS at my last and only event. However, i'm looking for a new direction. Let me start buy listing my current setup (by current i mean next month or so. ie: new tires/wheels)

225/50-16
245/45-16
- Bridgestone Potenza RE-750
-adjustable T/C rods
-AGX's with Tein S-techs
-Strut tower bars
-HICAS rear sway bar
-J30 VLSD
-300zx front brakes (puts me out of STS)

My alignment will be custom tuned by a shop that builds sprint cars/nascar chassis but these are the current specs...

Camber - F: -1.2 R: -1.25 (street friendly i guess...my new alignment shop said that they fired the guy who did my last alignment several years before hand, what a coincidence.)

I'm not looking to do too much more changing that would change my class, in other words, I would like to pick a class and stick to it.

Futures tentative plans would be:
-225/50 & 245/45 "race tires" on second set of wheels
-racing equipment (ie: helmet, harness, numbers, etc...)
-experiment with different brake pads
-tire pressure experimentation with laser temp. gauge
-professional alignment
-light lug nuts
-ARP wheel studs
-tie-rods (factory ones are in poor shape)

Other than that, that's about it.

Any suggestions on which class I fall into now or will be when i complete my tentative plans?

hurleyboi514
02-12-2004, 02:28 PM
ya i know what ya mean... im actually thinking of selling my brake set up so i can go back down to DSP. id also have to get rid of the Jic rear toe and camber arms, but ill just put some whiteline bushings in instead. i plan on finding another subframe and change *every* bushing in it and then swapping it back onto the car later so i wont have much down time. thats the plan as of now, but that might change, who knows...

Rennen
02-17-2004, 08:22 PM
YAY!

I just got a FREE set of 205/50/15 Kumho Ecsta V700 :cool:

anyway...

I have never run on R compounds before, does anyone here have any tips on what pressures to run? How do ya'll get your tires warm before running? Any other misc. tips? I don't think I will need to heat cycle them, as they are quite used, but the remaining 30% of the tread should be good enough for me.

This season will be interesting, blown shocks and R comps :rofl:

-Matt

LanceS13
02-17-2004, 08:39 PM
Well, don't expect to get a whole season out of 30% tread R tires.
As far as pressures, I'd say start at 38/36 psi and work around that until the sidewall rolls over just slightly...to the edge of the tread.
There's not really a good way to warm the tires before your runs...but alotta die-hards get some sort of insulation to keep the tires warm between runs.
As for tips...don't lock your brakes. ;)

lbcklik1486
02-20-2004, 02:40 PM
When all of you say 2.25 or 2 degrees camber, are you referring to negative camber? I'd guess not since there is no - but just making sure. And does anybody autoX w/ a 2way lsd?

MovinUp-1
02-20-2004, 05:28 PM
Yes we are referring to negative camber. Adjustable camber plates are an absolute must have item. The proper alignment can make a huge difference in your lap times.

240 2NR
03-04-2004, 02:25 PM
Hey, I just got my alignment done and I had asked for custom specs (2 degrees front camber, 0 toe, 1.5 degrees rear camber, 1mm rear toe), which they matched pretty damn well. My one question though, I had asked for 1mm of toe in the rear and looking at my spec sheet when I got home I noticed I have .9mm toe left AND right. When you say you're running 1mm of toe in your setups is that combined (like .5mm toe per side) or 1mm per side (for a combinded toe in of 2mm)? When I had asked and read other posts I was assuming it was 1mm combined though now that I got it back I suppose it could be interpreted either way.

I'm not complaining, the car handles great, and it's certainly a lot less rear toe than I had before the alignment.

In order to stay on topic, the rest of my current setup:
__________________________________________________ ______________

-Whiteline springs with Koni yellow dampers (3/4 front, 1/2 rear)
-Whiteline adj. sway bars (for as many times as I've been under my car I keep forgetting to check what theyre set to)
-Whiteline Front TC and LCA bushings
-Tein Front Camber plates
-T3 Rear Subframe collars
-Stock ulimited slip diff
-replaced all front ball joints
-16x7 Rota subzeros +40mm (lame offset but very cheap and light)
-225/45/16 Kuhmo 712's at 35psi
-SS brake lines, stock brakes with KVR carbon kevlar pads (which blow until warmed up, planning to run porterfield r4s pads if I ever make up my mind about staying sotck or running bigger binders)

gogeeta13
03-08-2004, 07:24 AM
I am just starting this year. I think i will be in STX class because of my custom intake and relocated MAF. I have a stock suspension HICAS 240, with strut bars. I am going to run sumitomo 200's for tires. 215/60/15.

Mr_Nice_Guy
03-10-2004, 09:11 AM
I run DSP in my region. Always get killed by the same guy each time driving a neon. Someone told me that he has gone to evolution driving school like 7 times :eek3: Currently I have:
exhaust and intake
potenza re750
rear subframe spacers
q45 front brakes

Now I just put the front brakes on so I don't know if I am getting bumped out of that class but I was told that I may still be able to stay in DSP. It all depends on the people up in Atlanta this weekend. I'm hoping to get more track times and mods this season, maybe I can give the guy a run for his money for once. :p :coolugh:

MovinUp-1
03-10-2004, 10:25 AM
The mod you need is to either run STX or get some race tires. You'll never catch him on street tires.

Mr_Nice_Guy
03-10-2004, 03:44 PM
My next question is can I still stay in DSP though. I was reading the listing up there and it said I would be in STX which in Atlanta is people who run race tires and are way way way more modded than me. If I have to move up to that I may just run in the class that is just for times only this time around until I figure stuff out.

LanceS13
03-10-2004, 04:55 PM
You can't legally stay in DSP with bigger brakes...then again, you can't legally stay in DSP with subframe spacers.
STX is a street tire only class...although the Azenis (which is what I'm guessing they're running) are pretty close to being R tires. Given it's a street tire class, STX should actually be a slower class than DSP.

Mr_Nice_Guy
03-10-2004, 06:03 PM
You can't legally stay in DSP with bigger brakes...then again, you can't legally stay in DSP with subframe spacers.
STX is a street tire only class...although the Azenis (which is what I'm guessing they're running) are pretty close to being R tires. Given it's a street tire class, STX should actually be a slower class than DSP.

Awsome, thanks for the info. I will just sign up for STX and see if they will just keep me there or move me around.

jy116
03-10-2004, 10:29 PM
Yeh, represent G-Stock! I just got to this post by searching 205/50/15. Wondering if thats too low profile for s13s.
I did my first event with .45F/.55R camber, .03F/.05R toe on 205/60/15s Kumho KH11s on wet pavement, bad shocks, leaky tension rod bushings, and auto tranny. Yeh, it sucked but Im hardcore like that. Was never in the right gear so I dont know how it would be with less diameter drive wheels... BUT thats the only size Azenis comes close to s13 stock size :/

I plan to get some AGXs, NISMO t/c bushings, and ST sways [only front since rears not allowed in stock class], and those 205/55/15 Azenis if I dont hear anything bad about that diameter. I have a VLSD to put on too. Should be more competitive that way, i think a Mini S is the fastest GS-N [im in SF Region]

Rennen
03-10-2004, 10:46 PM
Yeh, represent G-Stock! Woo... I just got to this post by searching 205/50/15. Wondering if thats too low profile for s13s.


Hey,

I run "205"/50/15 Azenis in G Stock class.

Pros:
Shorter gearing for better acceleration, shorter sidewalls for better handling, it actually lowers the total CG of your car a bit, less rotational mass, Falken's "205" size is actually closer to 225

Cons:
silly amounts of wheelgap on stock suspension, shorter gearing on fast courses(might have to shift into 3rd), shorter gearing on highway(worse gas mileage)

Here are the Azenis on my car after a KC autocross:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p5eaeed6a4b895f48a71756cbe6f384e8/fad769a8.jpg
if the pic doesn't work because imagestation is gay, copy and paste this into your browser:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p5eaeed6a4b895f48a71756cbe6f384e8/fad769a8.jpg.orig.jpg

-Matt

jy116
03-10-2004, 10:59 PM
WOW looks good! I have teardrops too! 6 actually, and 4 steelies, so the 205/15s will only see autoX. Dont wash ur teardrops for a while, they look good with a tint of brake dust. :]

Rennen
03-10-2004, 11:08 PM
Thanks, those teardrops are my "track" wheels also, so I doubt they will get much brake dust anytime soon. I think they(the tires) look rediculous. For reference, here is a pic with 205/60/15s on my 7 spokes.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/pbb29076f4710ef4a263e15e9edc4f24a/fad76c25.jpg
link: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/pbb29076f4710ef4a263e15e9edc4f24a/fad76c25.jpg.orig.jpg

-Matt

jy116
03-11-2004, 12:21 AM
yeh, but who cares about looks when ur having fun attacking cones! Plus my cars pretty ugly, oxidizing, previous owners cheap paint, and all.
I meant that the tires on the teardrops looks good, pretty solid and stiff lookin. The gap is... ghastly, but the best way to make it look right is at least 16s and a +20 or so offset IMO ;] In my near future hopefully.

gogeeta13
03-11-2004, 07:00 AM
What do my fellow 240sx owners think of the Sumitomo HTR200. They are dirt cheap, and from what I have read elsewhere, a fantasticly sticky tire. They come in 215/60 too, making them nice and wide, with the right diamter!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR+200

LanceS13
03-11-2004, 10:08 AM
I'm having a hard time associating "380 treadwear" with "fantasticly sticky". They might be decent street tires, but I wouldn't count on them being competitive in autox. Also, 215/60/15's are about 1" taller than stock 195/60/15's...so you loose some gearing, too.

gogeeta13
03-11-2004, 11:57 AM
What other "budget" tires would you guys recommend, then?

HaLo
03-11-2004, 12:25 PM
Best budget tires are Falken Azenis... :)

gogeeta13
03-11-2004, 01:33 PM
Best budget tires are Falken Azenis... :)


....

I dont want to run tires that have such a different diameter, the gearing of them would force me to possibly dip into 3rd gear on the straight away at the course we run a lot.

Are they any other possibilities?

HaLo
03-11-2004, 01:43 PM
Falken FK-451, Yokohama ES100, Kumho Ecsta MX...

240 OR DIE
03-17-2004, 10:13 PM
#38 STS www.delta-scca.org

mods:
Injen CAI
Apexi N1 Dual
ASP Crank Pulley
KYB AGX
RSR Down Springs
OBX Lower Tie Bar
AR 17x7 (Wanna be Fast) Rims
225/45/17 Azenis ST115 (Front)
225/45/17 Azenis Sports (Rear)
VLSD
1 Heavy Foot

Replicant_S14
03-18-2004, 08:35 AM
I was reading the listing up there and it said I would be in STX which in Atlanta is people who run race tires and are way way way more modded than me.

There are no STX drivers in Atl on r compound tires.

Also, any one of the top five finishers in STS would have won STX if they had registered for that class. I was 7th in a field of 31 STS drivers and I would have placed second had I run STX.

Don't fear STX.

The top DSP finisher in atl was only 1/10th faster than the top STS finisher.

DuffMan
03-18-2004, 02:02 PM
What do my fellow 240sx owners think of the Sumitomo HTR200. They are dirt cheap, and from what I have read elsewhere, a fantasticly sticky tire. They come in 215/60 too, making them nice and wide, with the right diamter!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR+200


I have those, they arent that sticky really. They also get greasey, but their okay for an autox lap. They are a good street tire, with occassional autox. Not good for open track days or HPDE at all.

They do have a nice, predictable break away though. They wear very slowly which is nice for saving your $$. Keep in mind, they only come with 8/32 of tread instead of the normal 10/32. Treadware ratings dont take this into account.

All in all, I sort of wish I had spent the extra $ for ES100's. With all the daily driving, and long trips I do in my car, the HTR200's are definitely turning out to be a good bang for my buck, but ES100's will be next for me.

S13FREEAAK
03-18-2004, 08:33 PM
Her is my parts list I am hoping to get for my 91 s13, not doing it competitively, just for fun:
-D Stage coilovers
-Uras exhaust
-pilot strut bars
-Kosei K1s
-dunno witch tires to use
-ST sways
-Maybe bushings, brakes?

Joe