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View Full Version : Please HELP! Berfor i sell my 240


trevor34
02-11-2012, 09:30 PM
Ok here is my situation for a little over a year now. Please do not tell me to search because that is all I have done. On to the issue at hand, I have a built KA-T and using Nistune for management. Here is what I'm battling car runs semi well but not good enough for my standards. When idling after warm up rpms will go up and down by maybe 150-200rpm and it has a little miss or maybe stumble while idling, also a lot of white smoke comes out the exhaust while idling and accelerating.

What I have done so far, not burning any coolant haven't had to add any coolant since the issue started, I don't think its oil burning either because my oil level has been dead on with two oil changes. I'm also smelling fuel like crazy but my a/f ratio is dead on. I'm using top feed 370cc rc injectors that come in the greddy turbo kit, when I put the rail and injectors on my motor I used the o-rings for stock injectors and rail because it didn't come with any and greddy tech support was no help at all. I guess the big question I have is even with a perfect a/f ratio could there still be to much fuel being dumped into the engine? Like if there was an exhaust leak before the wideband. Any help is appreciated, sorry about grammar sending this from my phone.

Big Zee
02-11-2012, 09:56 PM
stock cams or aftermarket ? if its aftermarket it could be the lope of the cams.

normally from what I've seen with people's tuned cars they tend to run a tad on the rich side on idle but once under boost it all even's out to good.

for the seal's do you see any obvious leaks by the injector's ?

freeagent3117
02-11-2012, 10:05 PM
im sure you know enough about cars to understand what the colors of smoke mean. If its white it has to be coolant. theres nothing else that could cause that. unless you seafoamed or suttin. it doesnt take much for it to smoke.

trevor34
02-11-2012, 10:08 PM
Just stock cams and no I don't see any leaks and it doesn't smell like gas in the engine bay just inside the car and back by the tail pipe. I just don't know if a injector is stuck open because with them being top feed its hard to prime them without pushing them out the rail. Im really thinking of just going back to a stock rail and aftermarket injectors.

trevor34
02-11-2012, 10:12 PM
Yeah I know what the different colors mean, the only thing is I'm not burning any coolant but I could always just do a compression test and leak down but i heard those don't completely rule out headgasket.

tre4s13
02-11-2012, 10:16 PM
Its a sure shot way of knowing. Otherwise something may be cracked. And my car idles from 1500 to 540 rpm... sometimes the dummy lights cut on, sometimes it stalls. 248/232 cams. >_<

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

EsChassisLove
02-11-2012, 10:19 PM
I fucking hate 240s.

Sell it. You will not regret it, I promise. lol

brndck
02-11-2012, 10:26 PM
get a block tester kit. they sell em at most auto parts stores
like this
UVIEW 560000 Combustion Block Leak Test for Gas & Diesel (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=block+tester+kit&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=iR7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=666&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5273924839465899478&sa=X&ei=Yj83T_W5BOGJiAKSu62VCg&ved=0CG4Q8wIwAQ)

SR Skid_Kid
02-11-2012, 10:58 PM
symptoms sound like a leaky injector.... they can also be failing internally, seals could be fine and all but the injectors could be leaking fuel into the cylinders even if its not spraying causing your misses... computer readings could be dead on in the numbers but the injector could still be filling your cylinder while not on try testing all injectors

trevor34
02-11-2012, 11:35 PM
get a block tester kit. they sell em at most auto parts stores
like this
UVIEW 560000 Combustion Block Leak Test for Gas & Diesel (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=block+tester+kit&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=iR7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=666&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5273924839465899478&sa=X&ei=Yj83T_W5BOGJiAKSu62VCg&ved=0CG4Q8wIwAQ)

I'll try this, at the least it will eliminate a few things. Thanks.

trevor34
02-11-2012, 11:38 PM
symptoms sound like a leaky injector.... they can also be failing internally, seals could be fine and all but the injectors could be leaking fuel into the cylinders even if its not spraying causing your misses... computer readings could be dead on in the numbers but the injector could still be filling your cylinder while not on try testing all injectors

I'm really leaning towards this also because I think the injectors sat for maybe a year before I bought them. It sucks where i live there isn't any places in Iowa that offer those services so ill just have to send them to rc.

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 05:46 AM
symptoms sound like a leaky injector.... they can also be failing internally, seals could be fine and all but the injectors could be leaking fuel into the cylinders even if its not spraying causing your misses... computer readings could be dead on in the numbers but the injector could still be filling your cylinder while not on try testing all injectors

that would give him a rich A/F he says his is spot on, what are you using to get your A/F, is it wideband or one from autozone?

waxball88
02-12-2012, 08:42 AM
im sure you know enough about cars to understand what the colors of smoke mean. If its white it has to be coolant. theres nothing else that could cause that. unless you seafoamed or suttin. it doesnt take much for it to smoke.

That's an ignorant assumption. White smoke can also be caused from excessive fuel.
symptoms sound like a leaky injector.... they can also be failing internally, seals could be fine and all but the injectors could be leaking fuel into the cylinders even if its not spraying causing your misses... computer readings could be dead on in the numbers but the injector could still be filling your cylinder while not on try testing all injectors

Check injectors, if you tuned with bad injectors you could still have a normal a/f
please tell me youre using a wideband

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 09:19 AM
are you running a cat?, it is cold where you live, so you will see your exhaust alot during idle and acceleration.

dave87rx7
02-12-2012, 09:32 AM
I have the same problem but my Sr it runs for 10 secs the stops dumps white smoke every where and the cylinder flood up with fuel. I have a bed boost leak and the rings on my injectors look bed. Also when I was pulling the spark plugs inside one of the cylinders the walls were wet. ........ Bed spark plug gasket ????

trevor34
02-12-2012, 09:49 AM
that would give him a rich A/F he says his is spot on, what are you using to get your A/F, is it wideband or one from autozone?

Yeah Iím using a wideband AEM, yeah I know means its cold ill see the exhaust smoke but it shouldnít be this much and no I donít have a CAT. I wish there was someone else on here that i have seen that is using RC injectors so i knew what o-rings they are using. Because even when I called RC they sent me Honda o-rings.

Thanks everyone for the help!

trevor34
02-12-2012, 11:39 AM
I have a question for you all. Means my injectors are top feed would i be able to prime the rail while the injectors are install and pinch off the feed and return lines for the fuel and see if the pressure drops after I turn the key off?

c-los13
02-12-2012, 12:04 PM
If you just prime the injectors by turning the key the pressure would drop eventually if uyou dont turn on the car completly. If you wanna make sure they injectors are workin right, pull out the fuel rail off and have somebody to try to turn on the cat, if the spray pattern looks off or if you see any type of leak from the orings that could be your problem. Frsport sell fuel gauges w the fitting on it for 50 buck. You should check if your fpr is holding vacuum as well. My sr used to throw a bunch of white after trying everything, it came down to the turbo. I replaced it and the smoke was gone. PS dont sell your ka, a friend had a hard time w his as well but once he fixed it was beast!!!!!!!!!!!

c-los13
02-12-2012, 12:06 PM
I meant car instead of cat lol. Damn notepad. Good luck

SR Skid_Kid
02-12-2012, 12:11 PM
i believe its best to test injectors individually... pinching things off and what not can cause real bad damage to hoses and stuff also pressure build up on things with anything fluid to where they are not intended should be frowned upon... try pulling off the rail and put them in a position to where they can "leak" into a bucket or something... then without pinching anything off just turn to on position and see if it leaks... obviously dont start the car or anything just to the on position ... this isnt a for sure way to test them but its kinda close and if its bad enough it should be apparent right away

trevor34
02-12-2012, 12:16 PM
If you just prime the injectors by turning the key the pressure would drop eventually if uyou dont turn on the car completly. If you wanna make sure they injectors are workin right, pull out the fuel rail off and have somebody to try to turn on the cat, if the spray pattern looks off or if you see any type of leak from the orings that could be your problem. Frsport sell fuel gauges w the fitting on it for 50 buck. You should check if your fpr is holding vacuum as well. My sr used to throw a bunch of white after trying everything, it came down to the turbo. I replaced it and the smoke was gone. PS dont sell your ka, a friend had a hard time w his as well but once he fixed it was beast!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah its hard for me to keep going it seems like one thing after another, it took me about a yr or so to build it in and out everything that has bee done to the vehicle has been by me. Yeah ill need to have a buddy turn the key on and ill have to try and old the injectors and then have them crank over the motor while the injector are out of the intake? Seems like a bad idea lol but if it will solve my problem ill do it. i have a summit fpg hooked up in-line with the feed line at idle in about 35-37 psi w/o vacuum im about 42-43 psi not sure if thatís what you meant. Also on the turbo note what was wrong with the turbo? Because I was leaning towards that as a problem.

c-los13
02-12-2012, 12:26 PM
Yeah off the intake, it wont any damage to car its hella safe. I gues the seals on the turbo were bad, hsve you check for shaftplay or oil on you ic pipes?

trevor34
02-12-2012, 01:05 PM
No shaft plays at all and no oil on the hot side, didnt check the cold. I’m leaning towards either a leaky injector (s) or maybe one or more have a bad spray pattern. I will try to get a video of the idling and smoke. Ill also do a compression test and check the injectors. Ill update tonight after I’m off work, i might send them to RC and have them tested and cleaned depending on the price might just get new bigger ones. I’ve also unplugged each injector and the idle change on each one, and looked on the top of the pistons and there really black and look wet but no puddles….?

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 01:20 PM
i really dont think it is your injectors, because if its smoking do to fuel you would see that on your A/F, because it would be smoking due to extra fuel. so it has to be something else. the wet and black could either be oil, or coolant and the pistons are black just because of carbon. do a coolant system pressure test to see if it is coolant

trevor34
02-12-2012, 02:23 PM
Ive checked the coolant numerous times and the level is always to the top of the radiator, plus the smoke isnt sweet and it doesnt explaion why it smells like a s**t load of fuel. Do you guys think it could be an ignition problem not enough spark or maybe fouled plugs?

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 03:38 PM
yeah, it could be, when i had two cracked ignition coils and a messed up ignition harness mine would smoke like that, but it was also showing rich A/F. thats why i didnt suggest that. you might want to check your o2 sensor

trevor34
02-12-2012, 03:58 PM
My O2 reads fine on Nistune but not sure how accurate that is but. I was also thinking if gas is or has leaked past the pistons and is in the oil could the turbo cause it to smoke?

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 04:06 PM
does your oil smell like gas? if it does you should really change your oil, gas is not a god lubricant. does nistune use the the stock o2 sensor, if it does its not wideband. sorry just dont know anything about nistune

trevor34
02-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Another odd fact, before i got Nistune i had a POS E-Manage, well i managed to get a dyno run with 320whp and 285wtrq with this same issue.

trevor34
02-12-2012, 04:19 PM
does your oil smell like gas? if it does you should really change your oil, gas is not a god lubricant. does nistune use the the stock o2 sensor, if it does its not wideband. sorry just dont know anything about nistune

Yes Nistune uses the stock O2 and i also have a AEM wideband hooked into it. As far as oil smelling like gas itís hard to tell considering the smell of gas im already getting but i checked last night and it seemed to smell like gas so i changed it.

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 04:24 PM
the only thing i can think of then is an exhaust leak before the sensor like you mentioned in the first post, that would cause it to over fuel

trevor34
02-12-2012, 06:44 PM
I've check for leaks and can't see any and it doesn't sound like there is one only place I can think is in the external wg. Update didn't get much done after work but changed the plugs because the old ones were shit and it seem to help a little made my current tune run rich. So that leads me to think I was adding to much fuel with the old plugs, I was also messing with the injectors and number two injector stared to leak fuel out the top of the rail. So I'm thinking this is all fuel rail injector related. It doesn't make sense means my a/f ratio is good but fuel is not getting burnt.

c-los13
02-12-2012, 07:02 PM
The top oring leaking makes tha crazy gas smell you talk about, since its not the the lower it doesnt affect afr. You said it smokes at idle right? Check if you bov is staying at idle, put yo hand on it

SR Skid_Kid
02-12-2012, 07:11 PM
if you smelled your oil and it smelled like gas then i would presume that one of your injectors is leaky... it has to be leaking into your cylinders and washing the walls down and collecting in your oil pan...

cbcm2435
02-12-2012, 07:51 PM
but if that were true, and that extra fuel was going in, he would be showing rich

c-los13
02-12-2012, 08:21 PM
Ima say this again. It could be your turbo, my t25 didnt have noticeable shaft play and it was blown. If your afr is good than its not fuel, try a diff turbo on. I know its easier said than done but at least itsbetter than selling a built motor. Just my .02

trevor34
02-12-2012, 08:31 PM
Well I appreciate everyone's two cents on the matter right now I'm going to try and eliminate one thing at a time starting with the easiest thing first being my plugs then I'm going to check and make sure I'm getting good spark and then on to the injectors and fuel rail then if I'm still battling it there is nothing else besides the turbo. I was doing some research because my injectors were a cooper color because a friend of mine put octane boost in my fuel tank thinking it would make my car back fire as a prank and I'm thinking it fouled out my plugs.

c-los13
02-12-2012, 09:15 PM
Thats not real friend imo. Ha. Yeah what kinda turbo is it btw.?

trevor34
02-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Thats not real friend imo. Ha. Yeah what kinda turbo is it btw.?

Not a smart one anyways, its a td06-20g with about 10,000 miles on it wouldn't the turbo be making noises when it spins?

c-los13
02-12-2012, 10:20 PM
Sorry about my ignorance but isnt that one og those godspeed turbos? About about the noise thing, i dont you should be able to hear it unless you have a straight pipe

trevor34
02-12-2012, 11:38 PM
No its a mitsubishi turbo godspeed makes one similar.

c-los13
02-13-2012, 04:43 PM
Mmmmmmmmmm try a diff one on before you sell your motor

trevor34
02-13-2012, 11:44 PM
Well I'm going to eliminate all other issues first. I really think its an injector issue because after the new plugs less smoke and I can't get the injector latency low enough for a good a/f at idle. So I'm going to pull the rail and check for leaks and reinstall it with new o-rings. I'll update when I do.

trevor34
02-14-2012, 10:27 PM
Have a small update, pulled my rail to check for leaky injector and from what I could see there was nothing but its hard for me to hold the injectors in the rail while I have someone prime to fuel rail but I primed it twice and had no leaks, but I did fine two injectors had two lower o-rings that were ripped not sure if that would effect it or not but I'm going tomorrow to find the right size o-rings.

trevor34
02-15-2012, 10:07 PM
Well I'm still searching for a cause, checked for leaks and couldnt find anything. If one injector has a bad spray pattern could it cause these symptoms? Still getting white smoke with strong gas smell and a small hesitation at idle. Any help is very appreciated.

trevor34
02-16-2012, 03:41 PM
Anyone with any suggestions?

trevor34
02-17-2012, 08:10 AM
Bump for ideas

trevor34
02-18-2012, 04:19 PM
Well still looking for a solution did a compression test today 180 across the board so rings are good.

trevor34
02-19-2012, 01:40 PM
Well for anyone following this I wanted to try and get all that octane boost sh*t out of my gas tank so I waited till I was bellow E and poured some seafoam into the tank and my break boost line and it smoke like a bit*h for about 10min and now there is no smoke! Going to let it sit for a day or so and fill the tank with fresh fuel and change the plugs and cross my fingers and hope the problem is fixed.