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skribbble
01-06-2004, 09:38 PM
im interested in buying an s13 with sr20det in it, and a few more engine mods like exhaust fmic and downpipe, will this car be able to drift on stock suspension without breaking stuff? the chassis has 107k on it if it matters

s0ldats
01-06-2004, 09:41 PM
drifting and not breaking stuff are 2 things that don't go together. sure u can drift on stock suspension. you'll break stuff though. it's part of the learning process.

aznpoopy
01-06-2004, 09:51 PM
if ur talking about buying a s13 with a sr20 in it already, then i would say go ahead if ur getting a good deal. u better kno ur stuff tho as sr20s aren't problem free, even with a perfect swap. seirously tho i think its better to buy a stock s13 and save the cash for repairs, suspension and drift entry fees.

you can drift a bone stock s13. until you get good at drifting why do you want to put stuff in the car that you cant take advantage of at your skill level? you want to waste a couple $$$k on a sr20 for stupid hp gains and drift on stock suspension when you should be hitting up drift events and thinking about how you want to upgrade suspension and chassis. after you get good on a upgraded suspension/brakes/stiff chassis, then you go for hp gains. theres no reason to go sr20. if ur ka24 is shit, then go buy another used ka24 and swap it in. costs a few hundred at most.

and yeah, if you dont want your car to fall apart and spend lots of $$$ fixing shit, then drift is not the hobby for you. ^.^

Flybert
01-07-2004, 01:19 AM
If the point of you getting an S13 is to drift, why are you wasting your money buying a car that has an SR in it?

NZO
01-07-2004, 02:05 AM
What is that comment supposed to mean?

Var
01-07-2004, 03:19 AM
ya what does that mean? sounds like you're saying you dont need more power to drift. somewhat true. Ka's are kinda whacky though, the power band is sloppy and it's not happy revving high..bad for drifting. but cheap to replace every time you spin a bearing..good for drifting.

mistaanime
01-07-2004, 10:12 AM
if you can get a s13 wit SR..juss get it..save your trouble in havin to get one later...you can drift wit stock suspension...jus don't do crazy drifts. heh.

Akuma Trueno
01-07-2004, 12:07 PM
The key to KA drifting can be found in something as simple as a aluminum flywheel, to allow for a easier rev. Most DD events are KA friendly due to the low speed nature of the courses that they set up. If you get a car that has already been built you better make sure that the previous owner is not a total moron, or else you could be in for a real bad time trying to fix someone else's freaking mistakes. (seen it happen more than once).
The first thing any one should be thinking about is an LSD. Everything else is not critical at all, you can have the best of everything but no LSD = no drifting fun. People claim peg leg drifter but once they get an LSD they quickly change thier tune and improve thier driving all at once.

Buy a stock KA24de power car and buy good LSD (KAAZ)

Terry
www.gtpro.com
LAND HO!!

Flybert
01-07-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by NZO
What is that comment supposed to mean?

It means this. Look down.

Originally posted by Akuma Trueno
Buy a stock KA24de power car and buy good LSD (KAAZ)

The newb knows exactly what's up. Don't waste your money spending more on an SR powered car when you can buy an S13 with a good KA24DE. With the all the money you saved, you can buy coilovers and an LSD and some spare beater rims with tires. These are the basics that you need for drifting and this is what I meant. I had a feeling people would question my post above.

Right now I'm running around with a suspension setup and 2-way LSD that is worth about as much as a stock SR and I really feel that this is the way to go. Because I don't have that much power, I can learn better car control techniques to induce drift rather than use gobs of power to initiate it. I think it'll make me a better driver in the end. Eventually, I will go SR but for now I'm having plenty of fun. Who am I kidding? I am having shitloads of fun with this setup.

elevator
01-08-2004, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Flybert
The newb knows exactly what's up. Don't waste your money spending more on an SR powered car when you can buy an S13 with a good KA24DE. With the all the money you saved....
Just how much do you think you'll save?:rolleyes: An S13 is already a fairly old car. An SR20det WON'T increase the value of the car much if any at all. It WILL however, make the car an EASIER car to learn to drift with.

ANY car that you are learning to drift with WILL suffer broken stuff. It is the nature of the sport. ...Stuff breaks when drifting.

aznpoopy
01-08-2004, 07:08 AM
just difference of opinion i guess...

1) imo, for a noob a sr20det is harder to fix or replace then a ka24de. a ka is much better for a drifter on a budget. there's much more documentation and support for a ka. and as you said, shit breaks. until you know what you're doing, i would stick with a ka24de.

2) more hp doesn't neccesarily make drifting 'easier.' if anything, i would think it would make learning proper drifting harder. with less hp to the wheels, you have to rely more on skill for drift entry and maintaining speed thru the slide (takumi style!!! :P). when you get about as good as you can on a ka24 and have done more important things like LSD and suspension, then i would go sr20 (if that's your route).

3) and a sr20 does bump up the value of s13s... have you seen sr20'd s13s for sale? on average 4k-5k ish, assuming there are no other mods on the damn car. if he can get a good deal i say maybe... depends on how good he is fixing and repairing and figuring stuff out. however, you can get a good s13 shell for a few hundred, a ka24de for a few hundred, and have tons left over for upgrades, repairs and the like. *ideally* u could set yourself up to drift for a little over $1k.

charlie@justdrift
01-08-2004, 08:59 AM
yeah i'm with terry (Akuma Trueno) on this... i drifted in a stock ka24de for couple of years before i went to SR. KA is a good trainer car! spend your money where it counts! good lsd and coilovers... and a lot of track time. but if you're this super rich kid... you can buy my drift ready s13 for 15k. hahahaha...

Dousan_PG
01-08-2004, 09:02 AM
werd
KA24DE here
works great. nice to learn on underpowered car, i think it adds a bit more skill if you can drift up w/ the 'big boys' hahaha..its fun too and if you blow it up..oh well! get another that same week.

as driftheaven said, spend the money on suspension, LSD and a nice seat and your all set. track time is the MOST important though, no matter what your car's setup is.

NZO
01-08-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Flybert
It means this. Look down.



The newb knows exactly what's up. Don't waste your money spending more on an SR powered car when you can buy an S13 with a good KA24DE.

Its just funny you say sr20 is a waste of money; its not a waste of money, there are just better things to spend your money on first.

Flybert
01-08-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by NZO
Its just funny you say sr20 is a waste of money; its not a waste of money, there are just better things to spend your money on first.

It is a waste if your whole aim is to drift. I would never like to drift on stock suspension. With that much sway, it just seems unsafe at times and open diffs just aren't cool.

Dousan_PG
01-08-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Flybert
It is a waste if your whole aim is to drift. I would never like to drift on stock suspension. With that much sway, it just seems unsafe at times and open diffs just aren't cool.

no its not
definately not a waste
cut springs are free and welded diffs work fine

hahaha
its not a waste. if had the money back in the day, i would have bought a sr powered s13 w/o a doubt.

but you learn w/ what you have.

stock suspesnion, GO DRIVE
SR powered w/ stock suspension GO DRIVE
build suspension with KA GO DRIVE

that's what it comes down to in the end

stock suspension is scary but it does the job. you can still learn alot (Grip too)

its like this

you work with what you have and go from there

people dont buy a SR powered car and leave it stock forever. just like i dont buy a stock s13 KA and never modify it. spend money where one feels suitable.

if you got a sr powereed car cheap, or a decent price go for it. take it to the track and figure what would work best to upgrade with.

Bbandit
01-08-2004, 12:34 PM
i have to agree with dousan..
learn from what you have..
to me it doesnt make that much difference as long as you know how to drive it and acquire new skills from it

im still using my 132rwhp KA for lotsa events.. autoX'es, drifts..
ask 240_keyy what i can do with mine
;)

steve shadows
01-08-2004, 03:05 PM
one thing i disagree on is this point.

I learned how to drift on a moutain road with an open diff and an sr20. I had first tried drifting wiht the ka24e which had a lightened flywheel and a cam upgrade and ecu from jwt. It was ok. but comparing the sr to the ka in a drift is apples to oranges.

If you have drifted with ka all your life and then someone hands you the keys to an sr powered car you might be safe or even pull off some skilled drifts in an open parking lot with cones (another thing that pisses me off about drift events) but on the moutain youll kill yourself.

I drift regularly when i go cruising in the ka24e powered coupe 100% stock ka, its hard to drift the car, shift locking is almost always required there is no such thing as power over in a ka barely doable with lightened flwheel and power upgades. Sr revs much faster power band is in much different place as well as the perceptable tourque curve.

Learnig on the moutain comparing ka to sr in a drift has just shown me you have to re learn some things to drift with sr safely.

honestly tho it would be a better investment (if you are not used ot the 240sx or s chasis cars, or this is your first rwd car) to buy a stock 240sx for as cheap as possible and invest money in the suspension first as well as lsd and braces if your goal is tackling a local togue or twistie section instead of just mass power. that is my approach to the blue car.

If your already used to sr20 and you may have owned one before and your just too lazy to do another swap then screw it get the car and trow some coilovers and braces at it and some good tires and go to town.

my other car is setup angled towards drag racing, high hp sr, taller rear tires, small diameter rims, lsd, stock rear suspension, lowering springs in front, great launches out of it, no pwr steering not that fun on the moutain, granted i have drifted it to fuc around just to scare my friends tailing me thru intersection and twistie roads as the rear end erups in smoke just by simply reving up and popping the clutch back out but its not as ballanced or smooth or safe as the much lower braced and grip setup of the other car.

stock suspension is driftable but be CAREFUL its not easy, its like drifting a school bus or a pick up truck epecially the old s13 suspension on some of the le hatch backs, i swear they were setup stock for off road gravel ralleys with that ride hieght! haha

Flybert
01-08-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Dousan_PG
no its not
definately not a waste
cut springs are free and welded diffs work fine

drifting while resting on the bumpstops just doesn't sound like a thing I would like to be doing.

Originally posted by Dousan_PG but you learn w/ what you have.

I totally agree with this. I learned weight transfer and a great many other things with an automatic underpowered front wheel drive car but never had the funds to buy the car I wanted. Learning about weight transfer and smoothe driving is actually better to learn on in a sway-happy car if you ask me but if my aim was drift, I would start with a better base car.

It's kind of like how I learned how to surf. I started to learn how to surf with a 6'1 shortboard. In about a couple of months I was able to get up consistently and have fun with it and proceed to bottom turning and pumping down the line. If I had started with a gun or a longboard, I would still have to learn how to ride a shortboard. I'm the kind of guy that likes to catch up to the performance of his equipment and not have to waste my time learning on something that I'm going to eventually change.

I think my views have a lot to do with the fact that I am very persistent and this helps a lot in the beginning of any new thing that you are learning. I am also a very confident individual who picks up on things involving physical ability quite easily. It's been this way with surfing, snowboarding, skatingboarding, and it stems from the fact that I have played a numerous amount of sports throughout my life and have stuck with many of them until this day. All of these things involve hand eye coordination, reflexes, vision, instinct, and good concept over the physics that involve them. Drift is the same thing and for this I feel that it is best for me to spend good money on good equipment and catch up to quality of my equipment.

I don't know if that makes sense to all of you but that's just the way I think. I agree that you should JUST DRIVE whatever you have but when you have a choice of what to drive like this fellow, start with something that you are going to be using the whole damn time (coilovers and a 2-way).

Dousan_PG
01-08-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Flybert
[B]drifting while resting on the bumpstops just doesn't sound like a thing I would like to be doing.



dont knock what you havent tried! ive tried cut springs. its actually pretty easy
that was on skidpad at dd...san francisco. it was HELLA easy to kick sideways and hold haha
my friend in FL has cut springs for the longest time. works fine.

what is your car like w/ the damper at full stiff? where's the travel? doesnt compress much huh?

now riding on bumpstops. wheres the travel? no compression. hahahaha
infinite spring rate!


woah life story...any footnotes? i didnt read it all
haha
too much info!

Flybert
01-08-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Dousan_PG

what is your car like w/ the damper at full stiff? where's the travel? doesnt compress much huh?



You are absolutely right. I shouldn't knock on it but you should read the rest of the post to find out why I'd prefer starting off with the good stuff, and yeah I guess it's boring at times, but I like to show people where I'm coming from on a personal level, not all the time, but sometimes.

I guess I just fucking hate stock because I drove stock/auto for 7 years and couldn't progress beyond what stock could allow me to in terms of grip driving. I did a have plenty of opportunities to drive a standard but never in my own car. Never had the money to upgrade or buy a different car so I'm bitter about stock and that's why I have to say,

"FUCK STOCK!!!"

nightwalker
01-08-2004, 08:16 PM
I use my girlfriend's stock camry to improve my traction sensing.

.
.
.
.
.
That is all.
:)

SHIFT_SR20DET
01-08-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by s0ldats
drifting and not breaking stuff are 2 things that don't go together. sure u can drift on stock suspension. you'll break stuff though. it's part of the learning process.

Not true you only brake stuff when you hit stuff.

On my 1st car I tore her a new one drifing it and not a single broken part. Bone stock. It had 320,000km on it. The only thing was I went through alot of tires.

sykikchimp
01-09-2004, 10:16 AM
Sounds to me like most of you guys are looking toward your equipment FAR too much for help improving.

Most of the best drivers in the world come from Karting. Do you think karts have even close to the potential of a real race car? NO.. (excluding shifter karts of course.. those are faster than many race cars..) it's the basics that you perfect in that kart that matter. Not the vehicle you learned in..

As Dousan and some others said.. TRACK TIME is where it's at. Without seat time, you will NEVER improve as a driver. Skill does not come from equipment, it comes from PRACTICE, and DEDICATION.


now.. if Cars are what your into, and not so much the actual driving part.. then by all means.. having fun driving your built pimpy cars. I'll be having a blast as you point me by with your SR, and me in my stock KA.

SilviaSativa
01-09-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by SHIFT_SR20DET
Not true you only brake stuff when you hit stuff.

Doesn't hard cornering or drifting put a lot of stress on suspension parts(especially OEM) therefore causing SOMETHING to wear out or break eventually?

Being on a very tight budget, I'm scared to practice driving my car hard in fear of 10+ year old suspension parts breaking...without the help from a light post

s0ldats
01-09-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by SHIFT_SR20DET
Not true you only brake stuff when you hit stuff.

On my 1st car I tore her a new one drifing it and not a single broken part. Bone stock. It had 320,000km on it. The only thing was I went through alot of tires.



guess you weren't driving it hard enough.

Flybert
01-09-2004, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by sykikchimp
As Dousan and some others said.. TRACK TIME is where it's at. Without seat time, you will NEVER improve as a driver. Skill does not come from equipment, it comes from PRACTICE, and DEDICATION.

But there's nothing wrong with having good base equipment AND getting track time at the same time. Just so long as you're getting track time, that's all that matters but qood equipment is just nice to have.

aznpoopy
01-09-2004, 09:29 PM
yah... i second (third? fourth) that comment about track time. my friend was road coursing in his itR at watkins glen; one car stuck out from all the other cars. a bone stock mid 90s dodge neon (in teal)! of course he was getting lapped left and right, but he was having tons of fun and learning alot from the instructor. driving experience for under 2k INCLUDING transportation, entry fees, room and board? wow. smarter then me :P

elevator
01-10-2004, 01:17 AM
Most of the anti SR20 people are just people who don't HAVE an SR20.

If you are getting a car that ALREADY has an SR it couldn't be a waste of money as it DOESN'T increase the market value of the car. In most cases it will actually LOWER the market value. THUS getting an SR would be a benny! It is the icing on the cake so to speak.

Var
01-10-2004, 03:22 AM
An s13 with an sr20 in my area goes for about 4 grand, i've seen some go for 7 grand with engine swap+mods(FMiC and boost controller), wheels and suspension

TheTicTac
01-10-2004, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by westboroughpimp
An s13 with an sr20 in my area goes for about 4 grand, i've seen some go for 7 grand with engine swap+mods(FMiC and boost controller), wheels and suspension

What part of the bay you live at? From what I've seen some young punks want atleast 7k for their stock SR'd 240.

And Drifting is 100% driver, because any car can drift.

SHIFT_SR20DET
01-10-2004, 09:30 PM
Bahh ha I'm a morron and I didn't finish my post.

I ment I've slidden into two curbs and only got curbrash the 1st time and the second I chiped my rim. Its all technique. It may seem silly but when you see it coming give it more throttle try to spin out before the curb or if that can't be done spin the tires as fast as you can so the centrifical force of the rim will distribute the impact evenly instead of letting your LCA take all the damage.

SHIFT_SR20DET
01-10-2004, 09:35 PM
I guess I'm a retard and dont know anything...

s0ldats
01-10-2004, 10:29 PM
hey, whatever you say man...i wasn't there. i'm just talking from personal experience and what i've seen other friends do.

aznpoopy
01-10-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by SHIFT_SR20DET
Drifting is sliding man not cornering hard.
Its easier to brake stuff grip driving than drifting.

Drifting if done properly puts hardly any strees on anything besides your tires.
Grip Driving your throwing 2600lbs on just that one wheel.
Thats alot of stress on the Suspention.

slid into 2 curbs? my mom also did that in her old 92 maxima and shes not a dr1f7ah!!!

drifting 'done properly' puts no stress on anything? lol. thats why tires get shredded, suspension pieces bent, and eventually the entire chassis gets twisted? don't kid yourself; drifting 'done properly' puts stress on the car. the tires are trying to RIP the wheels away from the car. remember wheels are designed to roll (generally) in the direction of movement. in drift, this is not happening. whatever is keeping the wheels attached to the car is probably being stressed, no?

gladhatter: lowers the value of the car? i wish i lived in your area! ^.^ i suppose all us ka'ers are just suffering from sr envy? :rolleyes: point is if he wants to drift on a budget; ka is much cheaper to buy and to replace, and leaves money for other gunk.

silviasativa: bottomline, any kind of motorsport involving screaming tires and high speeds is going to put stress on the car and break stuff. don't let that stop you though! learn to work on your own car and you can save alot of $$$. just keep in mind this particular hobby tends to cost some money! good luck!

elevator
01-11-2004, 02:30 AM
I used to work for the largest used car company in the world. My job for quite some time was to deliver appraisals to people who wanted to sell us their cars or who wanted to determine value when trading us. Book value of a car with an engine swap ALWAYS drops. The only time it wouldn't drop is when you are selling to sellect customers sellect cars that are valued only by that sellect group. Aftermarket paint, lowering suspension, adding a GT wing...actually ANY aftermarket stuff will seriously LOWER the BOOK value of the car.

TheTicTac
01-11-2004, 03:29 AM
Y'all better recognize than to argue with someone who was the first to paint their car rubberized flat black! :wtf:

s0ldats
01-11-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by SHIFT_SR20DET
Drifting is sliding man not cornering hard.
Its easier to brake stuff grip driving than drifting.

Drifting if done properly puts hardly any strees on anything besides your tires.
Grip Driving your throwing 2600lbs on just that one wheel.
Thats alot of stress on the Suspention.


you made yourself sound really retarded by saying that.

Dousan_PG
01-11-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by SHIFT_SR20DET
Drifting is sliding man not cornering hard.
Its easier to brake stuff grip driving than drifting.

Drifting if done properly puts hardly any strees on anything besides your tires.
Grip Driving your throwing 2600lbs on just that one wheel.
Thats alot of stress on the Suspention.



hahahahahahah
whatever you say dood hahahaha

Var
01-11-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by gladhatter
I used to work for the largest used car company in the world. My job for quite some time was to deliver appraisals to people who wanted to sell us their cars or who wanted to determine value when trading us. Book value of a car with an engine swap ALWAYS drops. The only time it wouldn't drop is when you are selling to sellect customers sellect cars that are valued only by that sellect group. Aftermarket paint, lowering suspension, adding a GT wing...actually ANY aftermarket stuff will seriously LOWER the BOOK value of the car.

but in reality the book value doesnt mean shit to someone who's spent thousands of dollars in a car. book value is irrelevant when it comes to race cars or specialized cars. The only time book value comes into play is if you try to sell or trade in your modded car to a dealer. example..1989 Saleen Mustang. Mint condition..full suspension and race motor with over 500 horsepower. I personally was there at the ford dealer when he tried to trade it in for a newer saleen. Street value of this car was 14k(that's how much he sold it for afterwards) The dealer offered him 1500. My friend almost punched the guy in the face. That being said...Your suspension parts will bend. Look at the control arms on your 240. They are very flimsy looking especially in the rear. If you drift in the mountains like some of my friends, you will be replacing that rear upper control arm a couple times a year cause the roads arent so great.

aznpoopy
01-11-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by gladhatter
I used to work for the largest used car company in the world. My job for quite some time was to deliver appraisals to people who wanted to sell us their cars or who wanted to determine value when trading us. Book value of a car with an engine swap ALWAYS drops. The only time it wouldn't drop is when you are selling to sellect customers sellect cars that are valued only by that sellect group. Aftermarket paint, lowering suspension, adding a GT wing...actually ANY aftermarket stuff will seriously LOWER the BOOK value of the car.

we're not talking about some dood with his volvo and his engine dies so he gets it swapped to another stock engine. i'm talking about a 240 enthusiast selling to another (prospective) 240 enthusiast. no way a sr20det will LOWER the value of the car, unless it was some totally fukked up swap. if what you say is true, why the hell would anyone ever buy a 240sx with a ka24?

and if you need proof, just check the for sale section of zilvia.net. you're right that people won't get back the total amount of money invested in the car, but it does raise the general market value. so if you do ever sell your 240 (im assuming u have a sr20 based on ur previous comments); remember to ask MORE then the book price! ;)

SHIFT_SR20DET
01-11-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by s0ldats
you made yourself sound really retarded by saying that.

Okay, I'll leave you children to argue amongst yourselves on this one seeing how I'm a Retard.

I had to go quickly and didn't have time to fully explain my point.


Look at it this way, which athlete is more likely to blow a knee out, the one playing basket ball or the one sliding around on ice? I'd have to go with the one playing basket ball. Grip driving puts ALOT of stress quick on components while cornering hard. Your transferring the whole weight of the car to one wheel. While drifting is a controlled slide and you are transferring the weight evenly and with grace. Well at least I do I don’t know what you guys classify as drifting. Surely not hucking your car around a parkinglot.


Oh and TheTicTac your cool.

aznpoopy
01-12-2004, 07:36 AM
ok, u're right that the front outside wheel takes the brunt of the force during high speed cornering in grip. i don't know where you got 2600 (assuming u mean weight of the car); the actual physics involved are probably quite a bit more complicated. your analogy is incorrect b/c in hockey they usually spend their time skating with their skates in the direction of motion. skates are designed to cut through the ice just like a tire rolls along a line. a better analogy for drift is a skating up to speed and gashing along the ice with the skates sideways. you'd have to be going pretty damn fast to slide a decent distance and this would put hella stress on your hips, knees, and ankes.

if u can imagine how it feels... the skates are trying to pull 'under' your body and turn your ankle 'out,' and your frame + muscle has to resist that and hold it steady so you don't flop over. same thing is happening during drift in cars. and the weight of a car is never distributed perfectly even except when its standing still ;) otherwise i could be sipping tea in the passenger seat while someone else drifts around a corner. only in initial D!

Dousan_PG
01-12-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by SHIFT_SR20DET
Okay, I'll leave you children to argue amongst yourselves on this one seeing how I'm a Retard.

I had to go quickly and didn't have time to fully explain my point.


Look at it this way, which athlete is more likely to blow a knee out, the one playing basket ball or the one sliding around on ice? I'd have to go with the one playing basket ball. Grip driving puts ALOT of stress quick on components while cornering hard. Your transferring the whole weight of the car to one wheel. While drifting is a controlled slide and you are transferring the weight evenly and with grace. Well at least I do I don’t know what you guys classify as drifting. Surely not hucking your car around a parkinglot.


Oh and TheTicTac your cool.


ever try a technique call FEINT
its shifting weight (to slide car) to one side of the car. and that's A LOT of weight you are shifting. how is that easier on stuff then grip driving????

you should TRY drifting and see what it does to your chassis after a few years.

ask driftheaven and his old chassis. now try and tell me its not abusive.

THINK

sykikchimp
01-12-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by aznpoopy
ok, u're right that the front outside wheel takes the brunt of the force during high speed cornering in grip.

This is not always the case.. it depends on the moment of time you are in the corner and how the car is set up, and your driving style. During trail braking the front outside tire has the most grip, at the apex, it totally depends on if you have the car setup tight/loose or neutral where the most load is, at corner exit, the outside rear tire has most grip.

Sorry to be nit picky, but you can't just make a blanket statement about that.

Also, I don't know about this "drifting is harder on the car than grip" stuff. Drifting goes through a lot of tires, but I highly doubt your suspension arms, and chassis see any higher stress loads than gripping. You also burn through a lot more brake hardware grip driving. I do think someone would be more prone to hit something, or have an off track while drifting, thus increasing your chances to break parts like tie rods, and suspension arms.

Both are very dangerous sports when maturity is lacking. SHOW A LITTLE MATURITY GUYS. Bickering is for children.

SHIFT_SR20DET
01-12-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by sykikchimp
Both are very dangerous sports when maturity is lacking. SHOW A LITTLE MATURITY GUYS. Bickering is for children.

Agreed

nightwalker
01-12-2004, 10:45 AM
I'm a Cali Drifter! We are the shifts! what up now!?! :axe:

aznpoopy
01-12-2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by sykikchimp
Sorry to be nit picky, but you can't just make a blanket statement about that.

true true... however, slowing down while turning (like most ppl) that is where the weight is. yes that should be pre-apex. bad me. :wtc: the weight does shift to the back outside during acceleration while turning, and probably more so during oversteer helped cornering.

anyway i really just wanted to clear up this notion that drifting is like gliding along effortlessly on asphalt. my point was regular skating is like rolling foward; while drifting is like gashing sidways. i tried to post everything with a friendly tone; so im very sorry if it didn't come across that way. the only comment that really got me annoyed was the 'the anti-sr ppl just don't HAVE sr's hahaha!' grrr. anyway gomen. :bow:

SiNFuL
01-12-2004, 08:04 PM
Yea so after sleeping through most of repititous arguments I just wanted to throw a little bit of "my side of the story." I drive a f*cked up KA24DE('had big plans and they slowly fell apart w/ damages and rash decisions)...anyways...I don't know why people say you can't power-over a KA...I do it all the time, but I just haven't driven an SR and felt "true power" yet. From my experience, if you're going pretty fast and then drop it down to a high-rev gear and floor it, you're going to start throwing your ass around even if you aren't turning very hard(no matter the hp). I can sometimes do it at like 15-20mph(2nd gear). Maybe I'm just not doing it right or something. Anyways, I've debated the whole "need more parts" phase that I was constantly battling and I decided "What the hell." Everyone is always talking about how getting this would greatly help them and getting that would make them flawless. But the truth is, once you get that part you're going to see it helps a bit, but once you "max" it out you're going to keep wanting more parts because you cant keep up w/ the less-modded and underpowered cars w/ great drivers. The biggest, and (cheapest money wise) yet most expensive(time wise)---ok that makes not-a-lot-of-sense. So the best upgrade you can do right off the bat is to learn you car and improve your skill. Take what you get and learn how to tear the road w/ that sucker. Practice grip skills and then sliding(a lot of the skills used in one are used in the other). Save the rest of the cash on repairs and treat yourself after a long practice to a nice little upgrade, then keep going. That way you can spend half as much(or less) money as the "pro drifter" down the way and still kick his ass because his car is the "monster," not he, the driver. Anyways that's my opinion although it could be super biased because 1. I've become broke(setting aside 1k for repairs and no money for parts) and don't have money for LSD and other good susp. upgrades..2..I've crashed a lot and 'been miserable w/ my car since I couldnt get certain upgrades(I eventually just got over 'em). Yet, after my first autox yesterday I felt pretty damn good about my car's power and I could definitely tell that my skills needed big improvement over parts by a long shot(bad braking, over counter-steering,etc...). Anyways, it was a great feeling that money could be set aside for repairs only and I could still be damn good at what I do. Plus, way back when I used to go mountain driving w/ a few damn good cars and I kept up(almost scraping their ass) w/ my stock "under-powered" KA. Alright, now I gotta do homework. hehe. Hope my advice is well-transmitted.
-Galen

steve shadows
01-13-2004, 11:24 AM
powering over is not an inertia drift or shift locking (slaming the car into a lower gear right before the apex then poping the clutch hard at that point then oversteering and throttle modulation) powering over is just that coming up to a turn punching it in and just having the ass fly all over the place. I mean with an sr you can slip the clutch at a 90 deg turn in 1st and just punch it as you start the turn and the whole rear end will errupt in smoke its awesome! haha

be careful if your doing it with 350-400whp tho haha :drool:

DoriftoSlut
01-13-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by rpsports
powering over is not an inertia drift or shift locking (slaming the car into a lower gear right before the apex then poping the clutch hard at that point then oversteering and throttle modulation) powering over is just that coming up to a turn punching it in and just having the ass fly all over the place. I mean with an sr you can slip the clutch at a 90 deg turn in 1st and just punch it as you start the turn and the whole rear end will errupt in smoke its awesome! haha

be careful if your doing it with 350-400whp tho haha :drool:
:rolleyes:

I guess i have een off the board for a little too long. Seems that now "drifting" is just oversteer right before the apex with the "the ass fly[ing] all over the place". RIgggggggggggght.

Honestly, the more I drive track and watch my friend (who is stupid good) in the Signal car (or in my car), the more I realize that there is rarely a time where all you will use is power over or feint.

Ex: Come into a corner top of 3rd, HUGE, dramatic feint on the straight away, with a clutch kick at the end... slide a bit, up HARD on the ebrake, clutch kick, [now approaching the apex] SLAM on the brakes and lock up all 4 at apex, clutch kick again, throttle modulation/power over out of the turn and into the next one (clutch kick ).... etc...