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View Full Version : Clutch engagement issue when stopping...

dorkidori_s13
10-09-2011, 07:22 PM
ok, so i posted a while back about this issue thinking it was my brakes. ive sorted it out that it was most certainly NOT the brakes (though my master cylinder was taking a shit, ive since replaced it with a brand new OEM unit)

the issue is, when i slow down to a stop with my foot pressing the clutch while the car is in gear, when i am approach about 1,100 RPMS, the car wants to stall like the clutch isnt completely engaging and my pedal is all the way to the floor (the RPMs start dipping like i am standing on the brake without touching the pedal, and this only happens near idle. ive stalled the car out doing this as well). also, sometimes during normal driving i have a hard time while changing gears (usually 3rd and 4th). first is sometimes a bitch to get into while at a dead stop (this could be synchro related as i know 1st has never been a great gear with nissans RWD tranny gates)

here is the checklist thus far...

• BLOW OFF VALVE IS RECIRCULATED (not vented, however this IS NOT a turbo related issue)
• ACT 6 PUCK SPRUNG CLUTCH DISC - bought brand new last december
• ACT HEAVY DUTY PRESSURE PLATE - bought brand new last december
• ACT THROW OUT BEARING - bought brand new last december
• ACT TRACKLITE FLYWHEEL - bought brand new last december
• ACT PILOT BEARING - bought brand new last december
• brand new OEM clutch slave cylinder installed 2 weeks ago, properly bled (problem existed BEFORE i replaced the slave cylinder)
• OEM clutch damper removed (before i purchased the car)
• OEM clutch master cylinder (not sure of age, looks new)
• steel braided clutch line (installed at the same time as the clutch kit)
• ive adjuted the clutch pedal engagement to a variety of distances, problem still occurs
• clutch kit was installed in december of last year with the help of one of my best friends. he owns and runs a shop here in town. hes helped me build all of my 240s, INCLUDING installing the exact same clutch setup on my last s13 (we both did it last time as well). i NEVER had issues like the above mentioned on my last chassis. the only thing is on my last car, i still had the OEM damper unit installed
• my clutch pedals tension/retainer spring clasp is busted. meaning the spring at the top of the clutch pedal assembly no longer tensions the pedal. i have to replace the entire pedal to remedy this (which i plan on doing in january of 2012)
• ive noticed a very faint metal spinning noise coming from my tranny tunnel as i engage the clutch via the pedal at a complete stop. ive never really noticed it before, but i never really listened for it before.
• my clutch chatter seems to be sporadic instead of a normal thing (which is odd)
• the car is used for DAILY DRIVING ONLY. nothing ive installed on the car has seen ANY track abuse whatsoever. my SR is fairly bone stock outside of a few odd bolt ons. nothing making huge power. turbo is still pushing stock boost. again, its a daily driver, not a track car.
• never had any burning smells like wearing clutch
• no strange noises when engaging or disengaging clutch

im thinking it can only be one of a few things

1) the clutch disc has somehow worn down to the point where my clutch is slipping (which seems REALLY unlikely)
2) my clutch master cylinder is taking a dump (which i would not be surprised of)
3) for some odd reason, an OEM clutch slave cylinder is just not allowing the clutch to engage and disengage correctly (again, never had an issue with this on my last car)
4) my clutch pedal is causing some random and unknown issue (which seems to be almost impossible)
5) throw out bearing is taking a crap

so there yah have it. i welcome input, but keep in mind, im not a n00b with my car. ive been building 240s for 11 years. ive gone over everything i can think of minus ripping the tranny off or replacing the master cylinder (which seems to be the most logical next step)
dorkidori_s13
10-09-2011, 10:52 PM
35 views and no one has any input...blaaaaaaaaaaar
idahotuner
10-09-2011, 11:16 PM
I once forgot to lube up my throwout bearing slider that the fork connects to. It would stick forward not letting the clutch grab all the way. And make clutch engagement iffy. Eventual it stuck and when I was driving and when I pushed the clutch in it twisted the fork off the slider breaking the lip that held the for in place. So basically it was stuck in gear and I had to Rev match to shift and get it home.

So that could be something to check. It can cause all sorts of weird clutch problems from slipping to harsh engagement
dorkidori_s13
10-09-2011, 11:51 PM
my last resort is to pull the tranny off :(

not a fun task, especially with nismo motor mounts

but did you car start with this issue before your problem happened?
dorkidori_s13
10-09-2011, 11:52 PM
also, from what ive been reading about the clutch damper, supposedly nissan installed the damper to keep line pressure equalized once the clutch is depressed. removing it supposedly causes the clutch line pressure to not equalize back out correctly until youve pumped the clutch a few times.
st280
10-10-2011, 12:05 AM
I once forgot to lube up my throwout bearing slider that the fork connects to. It would stick forward not letting the clutch grab all the way. And make clutch engagement iffy. Eventual it stuck and when I was driving and when I pushed the clutch in it twisted the fork off the slider breaking the lip that held the for in place. So basically it was stuck in gear and I had to Rev match to shift and get it home.

So that could be something to check. It can cause all sorts of weird clutch problems from slipping to harsh engagement

+1 on this. Bought my car with this problem. Pinched throwout bearing onto "front cover" with no lube on the piece the throwout sits on, end up snapping that piece off.

Sometimes would engage, sometimes it would not. And would do the same things you're describing.
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 12:17 AM
+1 on this. Bought my car with this problem. Pinched throwout bearing onto "front cover" with no lube on the piece the throwout sits on, end up snapping that piece off.

Sometimes would engage, sometimes it would not. And would do the same things you're describing.

well the problem only really started within the last month or so. wouldnt something like the one you describe start almost immediately after install?

im fairly sure we lubricated the crap outta the shaft the throw out bearing works on. but im half tempted to yank the tranny off again and double check not only the lubrication but the clutch disc as well.
herbieS13
10-10-2011, 12:36 AM
i would replace the master cylinder before pulling the tranny out, also side note i've noticed with a heavier pressure plate the slave cylinder cant keep up for nearly as long, 2 weeks is still way to soon tho
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 01:02 AM
i think im gonna go pick up a new master cylinder next weekend and give it a shot before i start ripping my bellhousing off. its only a $40 fix and will take a whopping hour to install. i think i might just pick up a chasbays clutch line kit too. get rid of that stupid hard line and flair bolt setup.
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 09:02 AM
110 views and only 8 posts, come on!!!
Chaluska
10-10-2011, 10:07 AM
.....

• BLOW OFF VALVE IS RECIRCULATED (not vented, however this IS NOT a turbo related issue) this is not anything to do with your issue.
• brand new OEM clutch slave cylinder installed 2 weeks ago, properly bled (problem existed BEFORE i replaced the slave cylinder)
• OEM clutch master cylinder (not sure of age, looks new)

• ive adjuted the clutch pedal engagement to a variety of distances, problem still occurs

• my clutch pedals tension/retainer spring clasp is busted. meaning the spring at the top of the clutch pedal assembly no longer tensions the pedal. i have to replace the entire pedal to remedy this (which i plan on doing in january of 2012)

• ive noticed a very faint metal spinning noise coming from my tranny tunnel as i engage the clutch via the pedal at a complete stop. ive never really noticed it before, but i never really listened for it before.

• my clutch chatter seems to be sporadic instead of a normal thing (which is odd)

• the car is used for DAILY DRIVING ONLY. nothing ive installed on the car has seen ANY track abuse whatsoever. my SR is fairly bone stock outside of a few odd bolt ons. nothing making huge power. turbo is still pushing stock boost. again, its a daily driver, not a track car.



Ok, answer this, if your slowing down out of gear, does the car almost stall?

Yes? then it has to do with something other than gearing..

No? proceed

when sitting at a dead stop, can you push the clutch in, and easily go from one gear to another with the engine running?

if you hold the clutch pedal down while in gear, does it scoot forward, and stumble?

does the clutch pedal feel loose? as far as there isnt constant clutch spring tension on the throw out bearing? this could be the throw out bearing pivot arm bolt.. i had that break on me once, and it was an "awesome" experience while driving around..

http://store03.prostores.com/discountnissanparts/media/01/a20791e12ce5b20f3b7f20_m.JPG

give us some more info on exactly whats going on, when the problem started, what were you doing before the problem happend.

help us help you.. although this is Zilvia, and asking for any help will immediately get you bombarded with "NOOB" "DIE" "Search fag".
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 10:37 AM
1) Ok, answer this, if youre slowing down out of gear, does the car almost stall?

1A) Yes? then it has to do with something other than gearing..

1B) No? proceed

2) when sitting at a dead stop, can you push the clutch in, and easily go from one gear to another with the engine running?

3) if you hold the clutch pedal down while in gear, does it scoot forward, and stumble?

4) does the clutch pedal feel loose?

5) as far as there isnt constant clutch spring tension on the throw out bearing? this could be the throw out bearing pivot arm bolt.. i had that break on me once, and it was an "awesome" experience while driving around..

http://store03.prostores.com/discountnissanparts/media/01/a20791e12ce5b20f3b7f20_m.JPG

give us some more info on exactly whats going on, when the problem started, what were you doing before the problem happend.

help us help you.. although this is Zilvia, and asking for any help will immediately get you bombarded with "NOOB" "DIE" "Search fag".

1) Slowing down with the car out of gear is fine. no issues there whatsoever.

1A) No (moving on)

1B) No (moving on)

2) yes

3) no

4) clutch pedal is feeling slightly mushier than usual (could just be me though)

5) already have a NISMO pivot ball unit installed

i think ive already covered the rest of your questions in my original post. the car is daily driven. it does not get beaten on and has never been tracked since ive owned it (over a year now). the tranny is perfect, no bad synchros at all (no grinding between gears). gear oil is 80w-120 and was changed in december when the clutch was installed. i know for a fact its not a gear oil issue as ive run 80w-120 in all my 240s since 2002.

the reason i added the recirculation thing is because im sure someone would say "oh its because youre venting your BOV, better recirc it blar blar blar"...didnt want to have to arm the flamethrower.
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 12:29 PM
anyone else wanna take a stab?
Chaluska
10-10-2011, 12:36 PM
when did this start happening?

did you do anything, or change anything?
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 01:22 PM
when did this start happening?

did you do anything, or change anything?

car is not caged, its a daily driver, not a track monster.

started about a month ago as far as i can remember
R@ddy
10-10-2011, 01:26 PM
I know your problem. You must pull the tranny off cause the shaft where the release bearing slides is broken. Happened to me
dorkidori_s13
10-10-2011, 01:41 PM
wait youre suggesting the input shaft in the tranny is busted or the clutch fork is busted?

ill put that one on the back burner for now seeing as ive never busted a clutch fork in any of my other cars and the one that is in there showed no signs of excess wear and tear when i changed the clutch.
harrypotter
10-10-2011, 01:51 PM
I know your problem. You must pull the tranny off cause the shaft where the release bearing slides is broken. Happened to me

Same for me
dorkidori_s13
10-13-2011, 10:25 AM
so i re-bled everything last night and a few things came to attention...

1) the brake fluid i put in when i changed the slave cylinder about 2 weeks ago turned an opaque gun metal grey (meaning you couldnt see thru it). when i bled the clutch, it came out almost milky

2) when i first bled the clutch, i was getting bubbles with the first 2 pumps. i bled at least 2 resivoirs full of fluid. i tightened down the bleeder nipple, pumped the peddle 15 times, opened it back up and got a few more bubbles (after the initial bleed, there was NO air in the lines). bled it for another resivoir full fluid and tightened everything back down again.

im going to bleed the clutch again this weekend to check for air pockets. i get the nasty feeling im sucking air from somewhere. NOTHING is leaking any fluid (i checked the lines and the resivoir during and after the bleeding. nothing was leaking)

the pedal problem still persists. no clutch chattering, somewhat soft engagement/disengagement.

this is annoying!!!
HYPNOTIK
10-13-2011, 10:47 AM
I have this exact same problem, difference is that I've replaced everything trying to get rid of the problem. I'm using the ACT Extreme PP and sprung 6 puck. I tried a new master cylinder, swapped to braided clutch line, new KTS slave, and removed the damper. No change in the problem. I always have to slip it into neutral as I'm coming to a stop to keep it from wanting to stall out. If you figure this out please let me know.
R@ddy
10-13-2011, 11:22 AM
wait youre suggesting the input shaft in the tranny is busted or the clutch fork is busted?

ill put that one on the back burner for now seeing as ive never busted a clutch fork in any of my other cars and the one that is in there showed no signs of excess wear and tear when i changed the clutch.

No, its a 'hollow' tube per say that goes over your input shaft. Its what holds the release bearing in place. most definitely going to be your problem. same symptoms when mine broke

Actual photos of mine broken:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s248/adolfosandoval/IMG_20110417_002329.jpg
dorkidori_s13
10-13-2011, 11:41 AM
ill be working on this weekend, im probably going to wind up pulling the tranny so well see....
R@ddy
10-13-2011, 11:51 AM
you'll than me later haha :bow:
Hiighboost2
12-28-2011, 11:53 AM
What ended up being the problem?