PDA

View Full Version : V-Mount Intercooler/radiator Q's


Phoen_x_s14
11-13-2003, 12:53 AM
Hey wassup, haven't made a thread in a while and was just done reading Dec. issue of Super Street article on V-mount intercooler/radiator done step by step by one of Signal Auto's mechanics. I've seen Rotary Extreme sell a setup on their site, do you think we can send a whole bunch of request to someone or company to sell one in the States?

My future setup is RB25DET into my 1997 240sx S14 kouki. Since RB25 is turbo already with 6 cylinders, that means more heat then just a regular SR or turbo KA. I've been researching different intercoolers from different after market manuf. and the most reliable psi wise while still allowing air to hit the radiator is Apexi's GT spec intercooler. But hell, I plan on making 600hp or more in the future (2-3 years from now) and I know thats going to generate alot of heat. And a V-mount intercooler/radiator would be the most proficient, since I can find a way to seal the incoming air that so all of it hits the intercooler or radiator.

Also, anyone have a air-to-water intercooler, like Spearco's? Wish someone had some experince with them since they don't really make a kit for 240's.

Joel 180
11-13-2003, 01:02 AM
You are gonna have to do some serious modification to get a v-mount setup to fit in a s14 with an RB25. There just isnt that much room left. SR's have heaps of room in front if you get rid of the clutch fan.
Just getting a larger radiator will be sufficient for your cooling needs. Maybe some bonnet vents too.

Air-to-water coolers are mainly used for drag purposes as you can fill them with dry ice + water to get the air super cool but it doesnt last very long. Air to air are much more efficent when daily driving or doing track work.

Phoen_x_s14
11-13-2003, 12:07 PM
Yeah, that serious modding just to do the V-mount would cost me alot more $ when I can use that $ to get more power. Hmm well I guess I'll go with the Apexi GT Spec Intercooler, Garage Defend GT cooling panel. Now, with the intercooler which chassis type should I get? Apexi's spec size for the intercooler for S14/s15 is 276*610*88mm and the Skyline GTR with RB26 is measured at 276*610*88mm or 237*610*136mm. Since I'm going to use a RB25 engine, would it be best to get a skyline spec intercooler? That way I won't have to do that much modding and using adapters like a SR intercooler-to-RB25engine. Also, are the end pipes for a RB26 different from a RB25?

But what about the radiator type? Super Tuner motorsports has a kit for the RB swap, that includes adapters to use any KA24 spec radiator with the RB25. Hmm, but there aren't many radiators made for the KA24 as opposed to SR/RB. Anyone have good experince with Fluidyne or any other aftermarket radiator for the KA24? Cause most peeps that have done RB swaps, just use Fluidyne with 2 FAAL electric fans. Just to make sure, are the fans going to be the "push" type or "pull" type?

Steeles
11-13-2003, 01:59 PM
the fluidynes are very nice units. I've seen t he prototype on Scott buwaldas cara and a production one on Chris Mays old car. very good units for the KA. and I do believe Koyo now makes one for the KA

Phoen_x_s14
11-13-2003, 04:15 PM
hmm ok, now I'm starting to think over about the intake manifold (japan, intake plenum), can the RB25 use a RB26dett intake manifold? And a RB26dett fuel rail?
Tried searching this also, but hardly any peeps have a RB25 already in their 240sx, let alone modded then just swapped in.

Dousan_PG
11-13-2003, 04:22 PM
call up McKinney Motorsports in so cali. they know RBs very well! :)

phone/fax 909.304.1045

blu808
11-13-2003, 05:56 PM
Here are a couple problems with a v mount setup.
1. Car will overheat if it is driven at low speeds, or if driven in traffic. ( due to smaller core size)
2. Very hard to bleed air out of a v mount systems radiator since the rad is lower than the motor.
3. You have to remove the center part of the radiator support and the bumper support.
4. Custom radiator and IC pipes need to be made.
5. Custom schroud and radiator fans need to be fabbed.
6. IC will only perform better than a front mount if you are going over 40-50 mph
7. Custom ducting and reverse hood scoop needs to be fabbed for the schroud to flow the air.
8. $$$$

Benifits..
1. Looks cool
2. Works better than a front mount if going very fast
3. harder to damage IC and radiator in drifting crashes

This has just been my past expierience.
Hope it helps.
Luke

Dousan_PG
11-13-2003, 05:59 PM
2. can be setup to fix this. depends on where bleeding point is. look at JDMRICEII in import tuner for example. very well setup

3. no, can use a smaller intercooler. HPI i think sells a kit? i forget.

kdv20
11-13-2003, 07:04 PM
I would first like to say that with an RB in a 240 there is no room to do a proper V-Mount. But I do have a few minor disagreements with this post.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by blu808
[B]Here are a couple problems with a v mount setup.
1. Car will overheat if it is driven at low speeds, or if driven in traffic. (Due to smaller core size)
2. Very hard to bleed air out of a v mount systems radiator since the rad is lower than the motor.
6. IC will only perform better than a front mount if you are going over 40-50 mph




1 The engine is not under an extreme load sitting in traffic. The main enemy here is just heat soak not core size. A good fan like a SPAL would cure this problem. But you do have to be reasonable when it comes to core size. If you keep the stock single pass set up the core has to be larger than a double pass unit. A double pass unit is 10-15 % more efficient than a single pass with the same size core. Using a 56mm thick 15 fin per inch core in a double pass unit you could cool 350-450 horse power at the wheels with a radiator 2/3 the area as the stock radiator and that is fairly conservative.

2 Air in the system. Any car running a V-Mount should have a surge tank. In fact itís not a bad idea for a high performance car. You will rarely see any purpose built car with a surge tank. This makes bleeding the air out a much easier process.

6 With the proper ductwork a V-Mount will out perform a front mount at any speed.


Yes it is more expensive and takes longer to come up how you are going to do it. But as with most things you get what you pay for

Phoen_x_s14
11-13-2003, 08:41 PM
Thanks alot for the inputs guys, this is really helping alot. Keep it coming, cuz its not hurting learning more about v-mount setups on my end.

Basicially my setup would be Rb25det (maybe rebuilt) running with a T66 or other turbos the same size, upgraded fuel system, the works. Basicially I wanna reach 600 hp BEFORE intercooler nos and 75-100 shot nitrous. I have no idea what PSI I'm going to have to set it to reach 600hp, thats why I'm still researching. But I plan to daily drive on weekdays with maybe power at around 400hp, then autotrack or drag at the track on every other weekends. I know that setup is alot of $$$ thats why building up to that setup will take me 2-3 years from now. Hey better late then never. Maybe even sooner if I can land that $13 hour computer job........*fingers crossed*

blu808
11-14-2003, 10:32 PM
I agree with some points of your statement but I beleve you missunderstood.
I was pointing out the probs with a setup like that.
When I said it would be hard to bleed air out I was correct. You would need a surge tank or relocate the radiator cap or bleeder.
Also an intercooler that sits inches away from the motor wont perform better when its been sitting in traffic for a couple mins. Anyways V mounts are sick but its all about personal pref.

And I dont think you would be able to fit one with a RB

Luke

Phoen_x_s14
11-15-2003, 02:41 AM
uh Blu, were you talking to me or to KDV20?

Yeah V-mount setup would be nice to have, but with all the space the RB will take up, front mount intercooler would be fine. Oh, I know some peeps probably read the posts and was wondering "the hell I'm gonna need nos for?". Well I don't plan on fixing it up for Drag racing being the main goal, but if I do, spooling up a T66 with out using a staller, is kinda hard on just a 1/4 mile. Therefore nitrous oxide will help it spool up when I reach 2nd gear. I mean drag racing is tight and all, but c'mon........its a straight away and only 1/4 of a mile.... How am I going to test my true power or top speed even. There's alot more then just dragging.

blu808
11-15-2003, 02:58 AM
I personally like drifting the best, but with all that weight in the front you are prob better doing freeway runs and drag. You will still be able to drift as well but pushing of the front end may be apparent. Anyways it will be sick, fun, and fast as hell.
Good idea on the nos Maybe you should consider using an intercooler spray bar as well?
Let me know if you need any rb parts, I have a bunch laying around.
Luke

Phoen_x_s14
11-15-2003, 11:18 AM
I'm really into drifting to....too bad I drift better on Gran Turismo then in real life.......huyy :doh:
hmm I guess I forgot to put it in the parts list, but I am going to use either a wet kit or direct shot 75-100hp and the "ntercooler" nitrous spray bar or co2. But before that, RB25 head buildup, not sure yet about bottom end buildup right away, fuel and ignition upgrades, and really really upgrade the cooling system.

I'm not saying I'll be able to pull it off or I'm the best, but if I get use to more weight in the front I might be able to drift and control it. heh, maybe counter balance the weight and put cement bags in the trunk lol. Look at Ken Nou- err forgot how to spell it, the "monkey magic" guy that drifts a R34 skyline sedan for Blitz. But then again.....he has some crazy azz skills.

Appreciate it Blu808, I might need various parts in the future. You got AIM?

blu808
11-15-2003, 02:41 PM
Hey. My Aim is [email protected]
Whats yours.
Late

Ahhsk
11-15-2003, 04:28 PM
Here are a couple problems with a v mount setup.
1. Car will overheat if it is driven at low speeds, or if driven in traffic. ( due to smaller core size)
2. Very hard to bleed air out of a v mount systems radiator since the rad is lower than the motor.
3. You have to remove the center part of the radiator support and the bumper support.
4. Custom radiator and IC pipes need to be made.
5. Custom schroud and radiator fans need to be fabbed.
6. IC will only perform better than a front mount if you are going over 40-50 mph
7. Custom ducting and reverse hood scoop needs to be fabbed for the schroud to flow the air.
8. $$$$


(all with my set up)
1. Not true, no over heat problems
2. Not true, Installed bleed fitting on radiator, and remote fill cap is higher that Radiator too.
3. yup
4. IC yes, Auto zone has a wide variety of Radiator hoses, I used one of the shelf.
5. I have Radiator, condensor, and a 16 in fan on the radiator.
6. Where did you get that info? I can see it, but when is IC eff a big deal below 50 MPH, AutoX maybe?
7. Na, one day ill do the official test with an IR thermometer in different driving conditions and compare Hot and Cold sides
8. Depends on how crafty you are the hardest(most time consuming) part is the IC piping.

RB S14 with V Mount I really dont see the room for it either.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/p40d27147f7ffc59499a81cccafb4c93d/fb6fe26c.jpg

kdv20
11-16-2003, 09:24 AM
ahhsk

your v-mount looks bitchin.

Phoen_x_s14
11-16-2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by blu808
Hey. My Aim is [email protected]
Whats yours.
Late

Aight got your AIM sn, mines: Mizta Two4Tsx