Phantom grip lsd

[gotrice240sx]

any good? i would like to use it for drifting

[Yoshi]

No.
Thankyoudrivethru ^_^

[andrave]

yosi: so you have went back to back with a phantom grip versus other units in your car?
was that with the stiff spring kit or not?

[sgm]

so that means not good?
or good enogh to drift in

[s13silady]

if you want a cheap LSD then go phantom grip... but basically, if you take apart your differential and weld the gears together, you have a phantom grip right there too!

[Raine]

Kaaz or Cusco are proven already... especially the new 16 plate Kaaz unit :)

[andrave]

they are also a lot more expensive.
Why is welding the spider gears similar to a phantom grip?
They don't work the same at all from a mechanical standpoint. I don't think you understand that a phantom grip is not a "spool" type unit.
Again, if you haven't used it then why is everyone saying stupid shit about it? everytime a thread on the phantom grip pops up it is flooded with misinformation and opinions from people who know nothing about it.
If you haven't used it you don't know what the hell you are talking about.:bash:

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by andrave
they are also a lot more expensive.
Why is welding the spider gears similar to a phantom grip?
They don't work the same at all from a mechanical standpoint. I don't think you understand that a phantom grip is not a "spool" type unit.
Again, if you haven't used it then why is everyone saying stupid shit about it? everytime a thread on the phantom grip pops up it is flooded with misinformation and opinions from people who know nothing about it.
If you haven't used it you don't know what the hell you are talking about.:bash:
I helaciously agree! How come I never hear info on the phantom grip LSD from an actual user. Everyone always touts "Kaaz, Tomei, Cusco" or some other $799+ LSD because that is what they have used and feel that it is the best. Or if they used the other big name LSDs, they states that anything less is crap. :mad:

[Raine]

Well I've tried both Kaaz and Cusco, so I think I fit "actual user"... but I never said Phantom was crap. At least direct your comment to whoever you're referring to.

I don't know if Phantom LSDs are good or not. I wouldn't know first hand. I haven't known or tried any car with a Phantom, and apparently there isn't that many in a 240sx either or we would have heard about it from an actual user... if they're even part of the forums. But I have read a few bits here and there about some unsatisfied Phantom users, and thus I only suggest what I know personally is "proven".

Do you have a Phantom LSD? If you do, then how is it? If you don't, then how much more info about the phantom unit (from a users point of view) do you have over us who haven't used one either? If you don't have a Phantom, then it's a little ignorant to defend it.

[docrice]

Wow, 8 replies with no answer...and not a single person that replied has even used one...off to a good start

[RBS14]

Originally posted by docrice
Wow, 8 replies with no answer...and not a single person that replied has even used one...off to a good start

maybe the reason nobody has replied who has one is because nobody buys them cause they're pieces of shit! think about it genius. Does it sound too good to be true? Then IT IS!

was there ever such a thing as common sense?

[KiDyNomiTe]

A friend of mine had one, its better than Open diff.

All it is, is 2 tiny plates with 4 springs in b/w. Basically works like the whole welding thing, but I would imagine better for the diff in the end. People say they ruin your car, but nobody has actually experienced that, at least with 240s.

My friend who had it said it was alright, he never did any sanctionized drifting with it, only messing around in warehouses and such, and well it works. He now has a Cusco LSD and says its much better.

So in other words, save for a Cusco, Kaaz, Nismo, or whatever else you want. But if you find one in a junkyard (but I guess you'd have to open every diff to find it) or cheap on eBay it'll be better than open diff.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by Raine
Well I've tried both Kaaz and Cusco, so I think I fit "actual user"... but I never said Phantom was crap. At least direct your comment to whoever you're referring to.

I don't know if Phantom LSDs are good or not. I wouldn't know first hand. I haven't known or tried any car with a Phantom, and apparently there isn't that many in a 240sx either or we would have heard about it from an actual user... if they're even part of the forums. But I have read a few bits here and there about some unsatisfied Phantom users, and thus I only suggest what I know personally is "proven".

Do you have a Phantom LSD? If you do, then how is it? If you don't, then how much more info about the phantom unit (from a users point of view) do you have over us who haven't used one either? If you don't have a Phantom, then it's a little ignorant to defend it.
H22A swapped into a 91 Accord with a Phantom Grip installed by a newbie with no experience. It did improve the time and gave overall better grip.
I am going to pick apart your little comeback especially since my original post was not even geared towards you.

First of all, I am not some little piss ant teenager trying to be like the japanese and "Dorifto" like many here, and I don't mod to make people recognize me. I won't prove my experience to some person sitting behind their home computer that I don't even know or care to know. But, this issue will be discussed due to your ignorance in assuming that I have no experience considering that I don't even know who the hell you are.

(1)Do you have a Phantom LSD? If you do, then how is it? (2)If you don't, then how much more info about the phantom unit (from a users point of view) do you have over us who haven't used one either? (3)If you don't have a Phantom, then it's a little ignorant to defend it.
1. Yes I had. It is actually a great idea and works well, otherwise they would have been shutdown long ago for fraudulent claims, false advertisement, or bait and switch tactics.
2. Skipped since 1 was answered.
3. I did, you obviously did not know, and I was not the one to be ignorant but unfortunately...you were quick to draw a baseless conclusion. Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq??? Where.

Know I am sure of your age, you don't do you age group any justice. Go drift into a curb or something :D

RBS14, this is not a $60 turbo "As seen on T.V.". I guess all of the guys who believe that a name is everything are pretty shallow. There is something about many californians that is shared...

If I said that the RB series of engines were all shit and never even attempted a swap or driven an RB powered vehicle, wouldn't I look kind of silly?

Here is a good little saying, "Don't knock it unless you've tried it"!

If you want a little history on my views and how I have defended them in the past, take a look at some of my previous run-ins with hardcore body kit people around here.

You get what you pay for does not apply much, or our government would have a positive efficiency.

GoodBye ;)

You can PM me for further comments or continue making yourselves look like ****.

[Raine]

You pick apart my post and specifically, so here you go.

Originally posted by zero.counter
How come I never hear info on the phantom grip LSD from an actual user...

Know I am sure of your age, you don't do you age group any justice.

I guess all of the guys who believe that a name is everything are pretty shallow. There is something about many californians that is shared...

If I said that the RB series of engines were all shit and never even attempted a swap or driven an RB powered vehicle, wouldn't I look kind of silly?

Here is a good little saying, "Don't knock it unless you've tried it"!

If you want a little history on my views and how I have defended them in the past, take a look at some of my previous run-ins with hardcore body kit people around here.


1. Now you said that you've had experience with a Phantom before. Then great - speak up and help the guy out who's asking about it. You couldn've just explained your experience in your first post instead of wasting time bitching about "piss ant teenagers", as if that wasn't an ignorant assumption of your own?

And then now you're sure of my age. Another assumption.

Next you make a broad stereotypical reference to Californians, implying that in general we're shallow and that we believe that name is everything? Rewind and read my post. I didn't recommend either Kaaz or Cusco because "the name is cool dude!" (say that in a Californian accent, if you believe there's such a thing also). The guy needs an opinion and I told him mine based on my experience.

As for your "don't knock it til you try it" comment, sure I've heard of it. Sometimes you discover something goo dthat others haven't seen yet. Or sometimes you buy an LSD diff that ends up being not what you expected. The difference there is the amount of $$$ you spend on getting a new LSD and install, etc. You're right - this isn't a $60 turbo Ebay thing. Only us Californian's believe in that crap :p

Finally, I'd rather spend time researching more info on my car and helping others out here than checking up on your history. :D

So instead of listening to us ramble on, do some more research... try other forums too, there's loads of info and opinions on diffs. But one thing maybe mr.guy and I may agree on, is that so far you've only got one opinion from a "phantom" - experienced guy, and maybe more than one (me) from a Kaaz / Cusco. I say "maybe" because I'm not going to go back and count :D

[andrave]

the only "complaint" I've heard is that they wear out the spider gears, which everyone makes a big deal out of.
you can get phantom grips for 300 bucks though, and you can get an unlimited supply of open diffs for like 5 bucks each, they don't exactly have a huge market out there.
That is assuming that after time it would ruin your spider gears.

So you could change out the spider gears every year and still have it be more economical.

Anyway I've talked to plenty of FWD users, and plenty of FWD drag racers are using them with lots of success... what I want is feed back from someone who used one in a 240...

[Raine]

Originally posted by andrave
what I want is feed back from someone who used one in a 240...

At this point I'm waiting for that too :)

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by Raine
You pick apart my post and specifically, so here you go.



1. Now you said that you've had experience with a Phantom before. Then great - speak up and help the guy out who's asking about it. You couldn've just explained your experience in your first post instead of wasting time bitching about "piss ant teenagers", as if that wasn't an ignorant assumption of your own?

And then now you're sure of my age. Another assumption.

Next you make a broad stereotypical reference to Californians, implying that in general we're shallow and that we believe that name is everything? Rewind and read my post. I didn't recommend either Kaaz or Cusco because "the name is cool dude!" (say that in a Californian accent, if you believe there's such a thing also). The guy needs an opinion and I told him mine based on my experience.

As for your "don't knock it til you try it" comment, sure I've heard of it. Sometimes you discover something goo dthat others haven't seen yet. Or sometimes you buy an LSD diff that ends up being not what you expected. The difference there is the amount of $$$ you spend on getting a new LSD and install, etc. You're right - this isn't a $60 turbo Ebay thing. Only us Californian's believe in that crap :p

Finally, I'd rather spend time researching more info on my car and helping others out here than checking up on your history. :D


:rofl:
I can know sleep better at night knowing that I, "ACTED JUST LIKE YOU".

Anyways dude, I said, "There is something about many californians that is shared...". I am always careful in making unbiased statements and in this alone I give you an example...MANY I SAID! Not all, or every or even entire...MANY!

If you don't interpret and aknowledge history, you are doomed to make the same mistake. Had you known anything about anyone, you would not have said anything.

BTW, you are not helping this post either, so shaddup.

Don't even try to flame me, you will get trashed...big time. :D

[RBS14]

Originally posted by zero.counter
RBS14, this is not a $60 turbo "As seen on T.V.". I guess all of the guys who believe that a name is everything are pretty shallow. There is something about many californians that is shared...

Haha ur funny. Do you have one of those "big name" $900 diffs in your car? If so you know why i harp on these pieces of shit. If not, you defend shit like "phantom grip lsd's" like you are doing now. Hmmmm Californians..... seeing how as im from Alaska and just moved to cali 2 years ago what does your statement have to do with me?

Originally posted by zero.counter
If you want a little history on my views and how I have defended them in the past, take a look at some of my previous run-ins with hardcore body kit people around here.

I have read most of those posts of yours and that is why i take everything you say with a grain of salt because you are a tool. People like you are the reason why companies like GTP and VIS are still in business. Who cares if they blatently stole something and copied it, that's just how life goes right?

You seem to be proud of your ignorance..... i guess that's just part of being ignorant. :jerkit:

[Raine]

Originally posted by zero.counter


BTW, you are not helping this post either, so shaddup.

Don't even try to flame me, you will get trashed...big time. :D

Wow until this post, everything I've contributed to this thread has had some advice to the original thread poster. All you've been typing is flame, so maybe you should try being a little more helpful, or "shaddup".

...and your threat means as much as the fact that you have posted more than I have - nothing when it comes to knowing how a particular LSD (remember, what this thread was talking about?) feels like when you actually use one.

And what's with the "historical" reference? Your ignorance in knowing how a Cusco or Kaaz LSD feels or works does nothing to help this thread, and your arrogance in thinking that you can tell me that "I know nothing about anyone" applies right back at you. First you assume my age, then you assume I have the mentality of your tainted interpretation of a "Californian", and now you threaten me? LOL

...nice way to fill this post with :bs:

:D

[sgm]

.

[turboex]

My boy ran one in his ford zx2 race car. at abou 250hp the thing flew apart blowing a hole in the side of his tranny during a launch on drag radials. For street i hear there ok, but i would not trust them after seeing my boys tranny.

[Dousan_PG]

get it!
anything is better then open diff
weld the diff
phantom
spend for nismo or cusco or kaaz

get something.

[turboex]

I am running a s14 VLSD, I have been hitting 1.7 60ft times with drag radials all year and it has yet to fail me. I dunno if its any good for drifting cause im not into that shit, but for the $180 I payed for it, it sure beats a open diff.

[docrice]

how about we narrow down the topic a bit? since he doesnt want to spend $800 on a kazama/cusco/etc., lets talk about 2 options in the lower (~$300) price range: stock VLSD vs. Phantom Grip. Anyone have a good, valid comparison BASED ON FACTS/ACTUAL USAGE other than opinions? this option(factory VLSD) seems to have overlooked in comparison, and it fits the bill for price and quality pretty well. So, folks, how much difference is there between the Phantom Grip and the stock VLSD? I ask for his sake, plus i'm interested personally, being a college student with pretty limited funds and a distaste for 1 wheel burnouts....

[andrave]

one of my friends has 300zx viscous and his car sucks...
it was a high mileage unit (like 100k or more) and I think his fluid is shot, he can do a one wheel peel for a few seconds before the other wheel finally starts to spin.
For drifting I'd have to say that wouldn't be so great since the whole point is to get both wheels spinning and sideways. And for launches, you aren't spinning the tires but for just a second, normally, so I can't think it would help much either.

As for the unit blowing apart, I'd have to question the strength of the ZX2 unit itself. I know for a fact that phantom grip units have been used in FWD drag hondas with rediculous power levels with no failures... thats like 700 hp and drag slicks.
And being an escort owner before I can vouch that the tranny used in the ZX2 is not a very robust unit. My scort zapped its tranny at around 75k and it was NA.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by Raine


...nice way to fill this post with :bs:

:D
:) HaHa...whatever "dude"!

To give you (the thread starter) some info on how the phantom is used and what applications it has been used for, I have supplied you with a list of relevant links about the Phantom Grip LSD. There are some good and bad

Misc. Crap:
XtremeSaturn User (http://www.xtremesaturn.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11874&highlight=phantom%2Bgrip)
Phantom Grip's Press pages from various automotive mags. (http://www.phantomgrip.com/press.htm)
SRT Forums (http://www.srtforums.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=181972&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)
Automotive Forums (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=74433)
240SX Forums (http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=29095)
NICO Forums (http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=240914&sortby=&sortorder=)

And then type in "PHANTOM GRIP" on this board after specifying your other search criteria.
Freshalloy (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/search.php?Cat=)

There are major mixed opinions on the cheapo LSD. But in a line, I have seen no problem. Your other option as stated before would be a VLSD upgrade and then when you have the money, go for the gold.

For the Raine chick, I have a specific type of 2-WAY LSD from a well known manufacturer which I believe is useless in this post to speak of. Since the question was about the Phantom, I gave intel from personal experience...albeit drag racing and not drifting. If there are any 240 users of this product, they have not made them selves obvious as I scoured across 13 different nissan forums where no one claims to have used one but think that it should be skipped in its entirety. I am a 240 owner who has used this product before, just not on the 240. Look, it is not the best, but for anyone out there, at least research the product and have some hard experience before knocking anything. Personally, since I have the money I purchased a clutch-type 2 way which is great. But If I was not able to drop the note for anything that high, I would have purchased either the VLSD from another car or the phantom grip lsd.

For anyone interested:
If the shoe fits, then wear it. If none of what I said was even true, then there should be no reason for anyone to even take offense to it unless there is some truth to it...and for those that like to argue, take a chill pill and remember that we are on the internet and it is useless.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by RBS14
Haha ur funny. Do you have one of those "big name" $900 diffs in your car? If so you know why i harp on these pieces of shit. If not, you defend shit like "phantom grip lsd's" like you are doing now. Hmmmm Californians..... seeing how as im from Alaska and just moved to cali 2 years ago what does your statement have to do with me?



I have read most of those posts of yours and that is why i take everything you say with a grain of salt because you are a tool. People like you are the reason why companies like GTP and VIS are still in business. Who cares if they blatently stole something and copied it, that's just how life goes right?

You seem to be proud of your ignorance..... i guess that's just part of being ignorant. :jerkit:
I seemed to have missed your worthless little rant. I tell you what, you are not even worth my time as I have seen your posts and you tend to follow the crowd a bit. I take everything you say with a sack of BS. :boink:

Let me tell you something else, do me a favor and find someone else to TRY belittling. It is futile and again pointless to do so on me. And re-read the post I made of MANY not all or entire or even complete. Read man, READ! I did not elect Arnold, did you?

I do however, feel honored that you took the time to read my previous posts, thus bringing a tear to my eye. Looks like you have mucho amounts of time on your hands, so think about what I posted and stop being one-sided and narrow-minded. It does not help the situation any.


You never know, I may be in the Emergency Department where you will be taken after onE of youR street races, better be nice to me.:) Move Along...:gives:

For anyone replying to my posts, there are two choices I have:
A) Reply and look bad since I will no longer care to read since I have made my point.

B) PM me instead of trying to look like a hard-ass and worrying about your board reputation.

C) Be cool and ignore everything I said, carrying on about your business.

Your choice!!!!

To the thread starter, good luck in your decision and glad I could help! ;)

[RBS14]

i bet you feel original restating everything i said in my above post but directing it towards me. Go buddy!

You didn't answer my question......... what diff do you have in your car right now?

I'd be interested to know.

[gotrice240sx]

i dident think it would go this far but anyways i ordered the phantom girp lsd and its on its way so let me put it in an beat the shit out of it and ill let u guys know if its a pos or not thanx for all the help ppl

[Var]

Originally posted by zero.counter
I seemed to have missed your worthless little rant. I tell you what, you are not even worth my time as I have seen your posts and you tend to follow the crowd a bit. I take everything you say with a sack of BS. :boink:

Let me tell you something else, do me a favor and find someone else to TRY belittling. It is futile and again pointless to do so on me. And re-read the post I made of MANY not all or entire or even complete. Read man, READ! I did not elect Arnold, did you?

I do however, feel honored that you took the time to read my previous posts, thus bringing a tear to my eye. Looks like you have mucho amounts of time on your hands, so think about what I posted and stop being one-sided and narrow-minded. It does not help the situation any.


You never know, I may be in the Emergency Department where you will be taken after onE of youR street races, better be nice to me.:) Move Along...:gives:

For anyone replying to my posts, there are two choices I have:
A) Reply and look bad since I will no longer care to read since I have made my point.

B) PM me instead of trying to look like a hard-ass and worrying about your board reputation.

C) Be cool and ignore everything I said, carrying on about your business.

Your choice!!!!

To the thread starter, good luck in your decision and glad I could help! ;)

hey shut up you stupid monkey :hammer:

now it's my turn to get flamed. go for it dude..no im kidding.. dont

[andrave]

goddamn you guys go a long way in ruining what could be an informative post.
order and isntall that bitch and post back a review telling us how it works.

[Jsquared]

I will make my contribution and then leave to avoid the flaming.

From a mechanical standpoint, I do not like the Phantom Grip. Two plates and some springs wedged into an open diff. Versus a unit designed from the get-go with a viscous coupler or a real multi-plate LSD (or even gear-type). However, like some participants in this thread, I am on a tight budget and a clutch-type or helical LSD is out of my range. The options are the Phantom Grip, or the stock VLSD. The stock VLSD will work just as well as the Phantom Grip (if you get a high-mileage one, open 'er up and change the fluid) for about half the price (if your junkyard is charging more than $150-$200, laugh at them and go elsewhere). OR you can do what I did, get a friend who is an experienced welder to weld the piss out of it :D Cost: zero dollars. It will do just fine to hold me over on these garbage tires until I can find a nice-condition VLSD in the next couple weeks.

[Raine]

Originally posted by zero.counter
For the Raine chick,

Ignorance again... assuming I'm female because of my avitar? LOL

At least in that post you actually gave links and references. Now you actually helped the guy.... after what, 6-7 posts of meow meow?

Now you're my hero :D

[sgm]

hey gotrice240sx...i have a phantom grip lsd on order too!

[Maeda]

I'm very interested to see how this thing works as well...

On FA there was a user that said it worked GREAT even for ripping donuts and drifting, as long as the heaviest spring was purchased.

How many other people can give experience with the PG and heaviest spring combo? o.O

[andrave]

well, since NO ONE here has used one on a 240, I'd say.. none

[Var]

It sounds like a cheap alternative. Use the heavy springs and since there are only 2 clutches, they will probably wear out quick..but you can always replace the clutches right? they cant be that expensive. Can you find out how much replacing the clutches would cost?

[Danio]

Originally posted by Jsquared
The stock VLSD will work just as well as the Phantom Grip (if you get a high-mileage one, open 'er up and change the fluid) for about half the price (if your junkyard is charging more than $150-$200, laugh at them and go elsewhere).

How do you open up the stock VLSD to change the viscous stuff?

I had a used stock VLSD on my S14 and it crapped out on me a little after a year. I do not know if it was a worn out VLSD to begin with or what, but it definitely made a difference until it stopped working during a drift event and became like any other open differential.

I also blame my freeway accident on the fact that my VLSD didn't work. :mad:

[turboex]

Form drag racing we call them "Phantom Slips", but for drift and shit they might be good, keep us updated on your results.

[andrave]

the phantom grip does not uses clutchs or clutch packs. Did you bother to read any of the shit anyone posted?

[turboex]

I have used and installed one, Its a joke, the reason people call them this is cause they normally fly apart inside trannys causing a no go situation---hence phanton slip!!!!! If you really what to be informed, go to a forum that really moves and post the same question.. try honda-tech.com Honestly its 4 springs, and 2 chuncks of metal pluss the clips you remove when you install it. Do you think thats worth 300bucks??? If you had a clues as to how it worked you would be laughing at the coment i made and not hating on it. If you read my mod list below i think its obvious that I know how one of those works. also you coment about no one using one on a 240 does not make much sence. a dif is a dif. most of them are the same. To try convert a spider (one tire fire) diff to a lsd with 2 pieces of metal and a few springs is besides me. Yeah its cheap but remember 90% of the time you get what you pay for.

[RBS14]

Originally posted by turboex
If you had a clues as to how it worked you would be laughing at the coment i made and not hating on it. If you read my mod list below i think its obvious that I know how one of those works.

Well you made sense until the very end of your post. You are correct, they are pieces of shit!

All these people keep not wanting to believe that you get what you pay for isn't true. I've got news for them.......

However what the hell does your "mod list" have to do with knowing anything about a phantom grip LSD? If you were trying to say that because of the mods you have done, it shows you know a lot about cars and therefore know about the phantom grips you are wrong. Anyone can buy parts and put them on their car or have them put on.

And another thing about your "mod list"......... Tenzo wheels....... that just oozes "i know a lot about 240's" to me.

[turboex]

Trust me, take a sc61 turbo an just "bolt" it to a sr20det then go have fun. I promise you that if you do not kow what you are doing that motor will take a shit on you at about 10psi of boost. I have installed and used phantoms, quifies, vlsd, and a few others. I build race motors for hondas in my spare time and I am an ASE certified mechanic for the military. Oh the rims, they were free due to sponcership they just oozes "i got a damn good deal on a set of rims..free". Honestly anyone running a turbo of that size has 1. a very good tuner or 2. knows there shit. And as i live in north dakota, trust me theres no tuners up here.
quick pic for ya.
Precision sc61
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid80/p6cdfe4108cc1b8cdcfaf411de2adca08/fb074547.jpg
installed in car
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid80/p4098db21f3d18e37ddda417048a79535/fb0744fd.jpg
this is how i purchased the car
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pb627cec0497d02244c8ec75b452abb59/fb60dfae.jpg

[turboex]

This is a pic of the car now with the rims that scream i dont know shit.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pecc774ad3d8643120c53f2366d3da4e6/fb60e560.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/p31766d4bf1aedf5165be51ae5230b60b/fb2798be.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/p132742e94bc8abdaeff639f7d94047e9/fb279897.jpg

[RBS14]

That's all fine and dandy. but do you see what i'm saying....... installing a sc61 on a SR has nothing to with a LSD..... whatsoever.

Glad you got the rims for free but they still look like ass imo.

I just hate when people try to prove to others that they are the shit/ know a lot/ whatever because of their accomplishments (regardless of how big or small they are). It just gets annoying.

That's all from me.

[Maeda]

The reason why I don't believe in what you pay for is what you get is because I got off relatively "cheap" doing my KA-T for a good (albeit unique)setup...AND I didn't know shit before hand! amazing tap dance DIY!

My belief is more like "you get what you research for, and 9 times out of 10 what you find out is 'good' is usually expensive." ^_^
Research holds the key of knowledge for a very specific application.

So i'm sure the original poster gave up on us, but I was still searching for some real info...


Anyway, so nobody has any good info? Then lock this thing tight viglant moderators!

and buy my seat mrmephistopheles :)

[turboex]

No dont lock this thread, Let the guys who purchased the nit, tell there experiance. I have stated mine in other cars, i have seen both a b16 civic and a ford zx2 shoot them out the sides of the diff. But maybe thy work better for 240's. Even though they are totally the same setup. I would love to hear that these guys have great sucess, but honestly I see them lasting a few months at tops before there are problems.
Heres a little part of the 20 posts on honda-tech about this unit.
"Phantom Grip sucks donkey testicles - period.
It's not even a real LSD. It's two metal plates that are spring-loaded that push against the spider gears in your stock diff. Over time (not too long either) the pressure against those spider gears breaks them, leaving your diff and possibly your entire tranny trashed.
I had a friend go through two trannies because of that Phantom Shit units. First time he broke the diff, he called them and they said it must have been his tranny and that "we have units in cars that have been in for years" yet I've seen numerous stories of how the Phantom Slip has killed trannies.

Each time his diff blew due to the Phantom Slip, the metal pieces ripped through his tranny (because the magnet that is supposed to catch them had gotten full) and ruined pretty much everything, including the case because a piece got lodged between the ring gear and the case.

Aside from the fact that they can break your diff, they don't even work worth a shit. They're okay as a sort of "diff locker" when going straight, but they don't do dick when turning like areal LSD.

I'd love it if the thing actually worked, because I always like to see products that work that cost 1/2 or 1/3 of the original's price (like Rota wheels) that perform similiarly.

Unfortunately if you want an LSD, you'll need to find a real one like a (in no particular order) Quaife, Kaaz, Cusco, ATS, stock Honda from ITR or JDM B16A or B18C, etc.

Or you could simply sell your tranny and buy a Type R tranny."

[andrave]

it doesn't even go inside the transmission in the 240.
its a RWD car.
you know that, right????
doesn't seem like it, but whatever, you claim yourself a guru just cause you strapped a big turbo to a turbocharged engine (I've NEVER seen anyone do that before :rolleyes: ).

And if it really tore trannies up do you think that half of the FWD drag racers that use them (and with great success) would continue to use them? they are a race proven item. You can check on that yourself.

Anyway the fact remains that everyone is talking out of their ass since you haven't actually used one in a 240!

[Var]

I dont mean to take sides but if in fact all the Phanton Grip does is push your spider gears together then it is a waste of money. I'd much rather take a VLSD over that or even weld the diff and save 250 bucks. IMO. I would not like to be the guinea pig in this experiment.

[RBS14]

Originally posted by andrave
they are a race proven item. You can check on that yourself.

You're kidding right?!? by which team? toys r us's team?

[Var]

Originally posted by turboex
i have seen both a b16 civic and a ford zx2 shoot them out the sides of the diff. But maybe thy work better for 240's. Even though they are totally the same setup.

except that that a 240 has a differential separate from the transmission unlike those FWDisasters

[Maeda]

If you want info on somebody that actually has installed this in a 240 theres a review on freshalloy, since zilvia user's realms of experience seem quite lacking.

I'll even link it so you don't have to go through the time to do a search.

Reviewed Phantom Grip (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67275931&Forum=All_Forums&Words=phantom%20grip&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=67275404&Search=true#Post67275931)

I hope this stops the unecissary bickering.

[andrave]

that says "the back end was very predictable (while doing donuts immediatly after installing)"

chock full of descriptive writing there.

[turboex]

Originally posted by westboroughpimp
except that that a 240 has a differential separate from the transmission unlike those FWDisasters
Come on guys, have you ever taken a honda tranny apart? look if you hold a honda dif and a nissan diff next to each other its the same principal and almost the same design. Its a damn spider gear style diff. what do you think is so diffrent, just cause its in the rear of the car they uses som magic setup?

nissan diff

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0309scc_projslivia02_z.jpg

honda diff
http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pics/D%20Tranny/diffOAL.JPG

Imagine that....same setup. Its just a diff guys, same idea thats been used for years and years.

[turboex]

Originally posted by westboroughpimp
except that that a 240 has a differential separate from the transmission unlike those FWDisasters

its just a diff. just cause its in the rear on a nissan does not make it magic. there the same. difs have been the same for years and years.

honda
http://www.codyscafe.com/~mrbone/pics/D%20Tranny/diffOAL.JPG

nissan
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0309scc_projslivia02_z.jpg

yes nissan uses a diffrent ring gear setup, but the phanton grip goes in the spiders and there all the same.

[RBS14]

Originally posted by turboex
Imagine that....same setup. Its just a diff guys, same idea thats been used for years and years.

STFU!!!! You are such an arrogant :mrmeph: !!!!

[Dousan_PG]

just posted on FA..update!

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67588753&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[ZOLTAN]

Well guess what, since the differential in our cars is NOT located inside the transmission like a fwd car, the unit will not damage the transmission if it fails. Sure you might kill your diff, but who gives a shit. Open diffs are throw-aways. Hell, I have 2 extra open diffs in my garage.

Personally if I were going the cheap route, I would just take my diff to a transmission shop and have them weld it. Sure it would be a little obnoxious to drive everyday(skip..skip..skip), but it would work well.

.Eddie.

[turboex]

Originally posted by RBS14
STFU!!!! You are such an arrogant :mrmeph: !!!!
dont hate, just trying to prove a point. yeah its true you can throw away difs if it breaks. But for me on track day I want to know my car is good to go. Each to there own. Good luck.

[Maeda]

Looks like the phantom grip is a winner! OR at the very least a great bang for you buck...

Thanks for the link dousan =p

[Var]

Originally posted by turboex
its just a diff. just cause its in the rear on a nissan does not make it magic. there the same.

Ya isnt that what i said? I said "except for they are separate from the tranny". I didnt claim them to be magic numbnuts. Go read a book or something. be useful.

[andrave]

sweet, I'll probably be getting one too eventually.

[turboex]

I still want to here review of others too. Someone post up how they work on the track with good size slicks. Im just interested.

[turboex]

Originally posted by westboroughpimp
It sounds like a cheap alternative. Use the heavy springs and since there are only 2 clutches, they will probably wear out quick..but you can always replace the clutches right? they cant be that expensive. Can you find out how much replacing the clutches would cost?

No you said they are 2 clutches, they are not. I think you should read the book, or at least the website on phanton grip. I have yet to see the phantom grip "wear out". It just breaks or eats away at the spiders. But these guys may have luck. Im sure ill see this post back up after next summer.
Oh Ill post a few pics of my boys setup with the phantom grip, ill show you that thing snaped in half and launced its self from both sides of the diff. Leaving 2 big holes. In the long run he had to get a new casing and then just purchased a quaife. Yeah not that thats hard too do, but you should have see how many I told you so's he got from the import crowd at the track and on the net.
Good luck to all who give it a shot.

[andrave]

I know some guys online that run them with slicks, they all love em for 1/4 mile drag racing.
I just wanted to know how they were for sliding or grip

[RBS14]

Originally posted by andrave
I know some guys online that run them with slicks, they all love em for 1/4 mile drag racing.
I just wanted to know how they were for sliding or grip

You just don't get it do you?!?!

none of you geniuses do. It isn't going to perform half as good as a real clutch/helical type lsd. Period. why you ask? Don't you think they'd be a little more popular if you got such an awesome product for less than half the price of any other aftermarket diff?

In just this thread you have proof that they break diffs and work at a mediocer (sp?) level......... people with real world experience. What was the last time you heard someone say "hey im thinking about buying a Kaaz 2-way" and people said "you'll regret it!" I can't think of any! yea, some people have had ok experiences with Phantom Grips but some have had very bad experiences.

So let me get this straight........ you're gonna PAY $300 to take a chance that you're gonna end up with a broken diff and 2 chuncks of metal with a couple springs between them?

Think about it people.

[turboex]

Damn are you the same guy, now we are seeing eye to eye. Very well put coments. Like I said, you get what you pay for.

[RBS14]

Originally posted by turboex
Damn are you the same guy, now we are seeing eye to eye. Very well put coments. Like I said, you get what you pay for.

Hahaha yup, same guy. Those reasons are exactly why i shelled out the cash for a Kaaz and not a phantom grip. You are right, when it comes to stuff like diffs and engineering intensive products.... you get what you pay for.

Stuff like piecing together your own turbo kit like Maeda was talking about, yea, you can get a better bang for your buck.

[andrave]

who cares if it norks my diff??
you don't fucking get it...
open diffs I can get all day for $5.
They are plentiful and basically free.

So who gives a shit if it norks the diff?
you are talking out your ass, haven't ever used one, and I have first had feedback that they rock on the 240, and you have a couple guys on this thread who say "I know a guy who put one of those in and his transmission broke in his FWD escort."
the car has a weak ass tranny to start with, I know I owned one, and anyone who is putting in a phantom grip and slicks and running their car in the 1/4 is probably driving the shit out of it.
There was no expert diagnosis that the phantom grip caused the failure.

Its all a bunch of :bs: from people that have no fucking clue what they are talking about!
if don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all.
:mrmeph:

[RBS14]

its your money. So obviously i'm not one to tell you how to spend it. Just giving my honest opinion. However rather than take a chance i'd rather get a VLSD for $300 and know it'll work.

[turboex]

Originally posted by andrave
who cares if it norks my diff??
you don't fucking get it...
open diffs I can get all day for $5.
They are plentiful and basically free.

So who gives a shit if it norks the diff?
you are talking out your ass, haven't ever used one, and I have first had feedback that they rock on the 240, and you have a couple guys on this thread who say "I know a guy who put one of those in and his transmission broke in his FWD escort."
the car has a weak ass tranny to start with, I know I owned one, and anyone who is putting in a phantom grip and slicks and running their car in the 1/4 is probably driving the shit out of it.
There was no expert diagnosis that the phantom grip caused the failure.

Its all a bunch of :bs: from people that have no fucking clue what they are talking about!
if don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all.
:mrmeph:

What does how the tranny is built have to do with anything? The guy racedd the car for 2 years with no problems. when the tranny went the phanton grip blew apart in two pieces. The tranny did not fail the phantom grip did. Ill get pics tomorow for ya. Or ill do my best too. Your right the guy was going to drive the shit out of it, but he didnot even get one run. it snaped on the first pass.

[sgm]

.

[gotrice240sx]

i posted about the VLSD and same shit some ppl say it works good and some ppl say its shit and that one wheel starts to spins more then the other so theres good and bad the VLSD too so for 300 bucks u can buy a used Vlsd or a NEW phatom grip what would ppl get?

[andrave]

VLSD=
for 300 dollars a pain in the ass hunting down the right flanges you get something that realistically might now work at all, when it does, is slow to react.

Viscous units with over 80-100 thousand miles on probably are gonna be sluggish. And I can't justify spending that much time and effort on something that sucks.

As for the tranny, your friend probably needs to learn how to drive and learn how to put shit together properly.
I'd wager money it was he who fucked it up.

[Maeda]

Why has this become such a pissing contest? o.O

The thing works for what it is at 300$ If you don't have crazy HP and are going for drag racing, it seems like a done deal.

[sgm]

.

[sxtacy]

Well I dont have any experience with the phantom in a 240, but I do have some experience with the unit. I had one in my 97 Eclipse and it held up well. I could get 2.2 60' times before it and never actually had the chance to take it back to the track with it on before it got hit, but it worked and well. I also have a few buddies that have this mod as well. One is making a little over 300whp and he loves it. Better cornering, better acceleration, overall a pretty good upgrade. It does have downsides however, they must be installed just right or you will experience some big big problems. Another friend of mine took his car to a tranny shop for them to put the phantom and a new clutch in, well they call him two days later saying that there is a hole in the tranny, but the LSD was working really well. Its a long story, but they didnt install it right and it blew a bolt through the bellhousing. So what it all boils down to is yes it works and pretty well, but make sure its in there correctly.

[misnomer]

Three pages of flames I had to skim through to pull out perhaps a paragraph of good information (and hell, that was all Freshalloy). Stop giving zilvia.net a bad name.

Lemme try to summarize what I've learned, correct me if necessery:

-Effectively, it locks the differential under accelleration
-Generally improves performance over a factory open diff
-It tends to increase wear and tear on the tranny and has a chance of cataclysmic failure (then again, how many folks here have blown KAs with a DIY turbo kit? Why aren't they being flamed yet? :P)


Here's what I still haven't found:

-How does it work when cornering? The website says it simply puts pressure against the spider gears. We all know a locked differential is generally crappy for turning. . .
-Who the heck is SGM and why has he posted only periods in this thread?


Lastly, I'm damn sick of hearing "If it were good, EVERYBODY would be using it." This just isn't the case. There's plenty of crappy stuff all sorts of people are buying and a lot of good stuff that never sees the light of day. Marketting and brand name are almost (if not moreso) as powerful a tool as quality product nowadays.

[RBS14]

Originally posted by misnomer
-Who the heck is SGM and why has he posted only periods in this thread?

She is one of Zilvia.net's few female posters. As for why she posted periods, my guess is that it was an attempt to end the discussion/bickering. Ever heard someone say "that's it, period!"? That's my guess at what she was doing.


Originally posted by misnomer
Lastly, I'm damn sick of hearing "If it were good, EVERYBODY would be using it."

I was referring to people who race/drift/take their car to the track (not drag strip). And i DO believe it would be true in this case, that is why i said it, its not a claim i make often.

[statik]

i didnt have alot of my and decided since winter was coming up, any LSD was better than open. So i bought a Phantom Grip for 280 shipped new. I'll let everyone know how the install goes and how it works when I get it.

heres the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2441355245

[sgm]

Originally posted by misnomer


-Who the heck is SGM and why has he posted only periods in this thread?



sorry! my dumbass friend keeps accidentally posting under my name when he uses MY computer, so he goes back and edits it by putting a period and then usually posts under his name.

[turboex]

Originally posted by andrave
VLSD=
for 300 dollars a pain in the ass hunting down the right flanges you get something that realistically might now work at all, when it does, is slow to react.

Viscous units with over 80-100 thousand miles on probably are gonna be sluggish. And I can't justify spending that much time and effort on something that sucks.

As for the tranny, your friend probably needs to learn how to drive and learn how to put shit together properly.
I'd wager money it was he who fucked it up.
Have you ever seen this unit? is kind of hard to mess up. And what does how to drive have to do with anything???? I have it on tape, He did a burn out in the box. stoped reved car to 5,000rpm and dumped clutch. Phantom grip blew apart a flew out of the sides of the tranny, what dont you get?? It was installed by a tranny shop that had put 2 in before and even they told him that these things were no good. The design alone, shows that its going to break something. Heres my time slip with a s14 VLSD on a stock sr20det swap at 9psi.
rt 0.623
60ft 1.841
mid 79.09mph
mph 99.12
1320ft 13.554

This unit was purchased from a nissan junk yard for $160 shipped!!!
call 1-800-642-4362 ask for Bob.

And remember this is for the whole rear end, the swap take less than an hour, how is that not worth a try? A phanton is gonna cost you 300 pluss a good 100-200 to get it put in. Pluss the time its at a shop if you plan to pay someone else to do it.

I hope this helps some as now you have a way to get a good VLSD for half the price and it will not blow apart on you at all.

[jmauld]

Don't forget the tow home when it blows apart your rear diff. If you're fortunate enough, when it blows, it won't be at the dragstrip late at night, where it'll cost you at least $200 to get a tow home.

If you want to know how well this thing will work, take it to any mechanical engineer professor at your local university. It doesn't take experience to know that this thing is just a broken diff waiting to happen.

I'm probably the biggest cheapskate you'll ever meet and I wouldn't even consider it.

If you want to go cheap, weld the diff or either try to find someone who is confident enough to refill a vlsd.

[Var]

Originally posted by jmauld

If you want to go cheap, weld the diff or either try to find someone who is confident enough to refill a vlsd.

Waddya mean? Is swapping the fluid in a VLSD that difficult?

[RBS14]

^^^^^^^

Changing diff fluid isnt hard, just a pain in the ass if you don't have a lift.

1. Unscrew the drain plug at the bottom of the rear cover with a oil pan underneath for obvious reasons.

2. Jack up the front of the car to get as much of the fluid out of the diff as possible.

3. put the front wheels back on the ground after oil is done draining (a few minutes) then jack up the rear of the car and put the drain plug back in.

4. Remove the fill plug on the driver side of the diff on the rear cover. This will REQUIRE a 1/2" drive swivel as well as an extension and a socket wrench.

4. Use the oil pump you just purchased at your local parts store to fill the diff with 80W90 LSD oil till it starts coming out of the fill hole. Screw back in the fill plug and voila! Your diff fluid is changed.

[turboex]

I dont think you have to use LSD gear oil, as the LSD unit i sealed in the diff. Its been a while since I had the cover off mine to install it. But i seam to rember being told that it is a sealed unit?

[andrave]

a viscous limited slip unit, in the case of the 240, uses a sealed viscous fluid inside the diff. Its not gear oil, and can't be replaced with gear oil.
I have no idea how to replace it, I was under the impression that you replaced it by replacing the unit, I've never heard of them being refilled before.

[jmauld]

Right, it's a sealed unit. Seems to me (I'm not certain, though) that there should be someone who has the capability to drill a hole in it, drain the fluid out, and replace it. Then seal the hole by either welding it or tapping it for a plug? I don't know if that's possible though.

[Jsquared]

Another friend of mine took his car to a tranny shop for them to put the phantom and a new clutch in, well they call him two days later saying that there is a hole in the tranny, but the LSD was working really well. Its a long story, but they didnt install it right and it blew a bolt through the bellhousing.
your "friend" is also a con-artist and has a tendency to go to shops with piss-poor parts and blame them when something breaks. Things like this happen rather frequently from what I've seen...


As far as the Phantom Grip, just reread jmauld's posts (and anyone on CarolinaNissans.com knows we argue all the damn time :D). Mechanically-speaking, the unit is worse than ghetto-rig. It is seriously lacking from an engineering standpoint. And you can get VLSDs for under $150, you just have to know where to look and not mind looking. If you really can't handle an open diff until then, weld it shut like I did :D

[sxtacy]

Originally posted by Jsquared
your "friend" is also a con-artist and has a tendency to go to shops with piss-poor parts and blame them when something breaks. Things like this happen rather frequently from what I've seen...


First of all, Im going to respond to this as best I can and no hard feelings, but since you want to take it there, lets. First of all, you dont know a thing about my friend nor myself, so how can you sit there and say such things? My friends and I do all the work to our cars ourselves except when something is over our head or we just dont have the free time to tackle such a task. Second of all, why dont you do some more research on units like the phantom grip. We did and found numerous people making over 300whp with these units with no signs of failure. Out of all the research both he and I have done we have only found a handful of people (when compared to the amount of people that have used it with great success) that have experienced any type of failure with the unit. And as far as piss poor parts, he most certainly does not use crap parts. They are all from very well known and quality companies. Now the real con artist in this whole ordeal was the tranny shop. They lied to him multiple times about what happened with the car. He even took the tranny to multiple other shops to have it checked out. 5 out of 5 other shops all verified that the failure was due to an incorrect installation rather than low quality parts. Plus the shop was beating on the car. How else would they be able to honestly say that the lsd was working real well unless they went out and trashed it. Besides that I was not talking about the phantom grip on a 240, but rather just the experience that I have had with the unit in general when it comes to the FWD eclipse. Which by the way, never came with a VLSD or any type of lsd for that matter. Now when the time comes to purchase a LSD for my 240 I highly doubt that I will go spend $300 on a phantom grip when others came equipped with a true lsd from the factory. I said I was new to 240s not new to cars, please believe me when I say I have a lot of experience when it comes to cars. But anyway, Im done here, if you need to discuss it further IM me sometime, TDaug25 or Tuffnruf. I live in Raleigh as well, which is only a few hrs away. Just hit me up and we can get it all settled and done with, but either way, why dont you do both of us a favor and end the BS

[Ghettokracker71]

Maybe I don't feel like swiming through all of this :bs: but everything that I have read has not answered this dudes question about if they are good or not,maybe people like me,who were into american muscle cars before,don't exactly know what all is needed to swap in a VLSD and thinks its crazy to pay $799+ when for a muscle car a "junkyard posi" will run you about $450 or so,and I know exactly what that will,and won't fit.....I just can't stand when jerks take a forum that is all about getting information and turn it into some shit fest,honestly are you 5 years old people ? He had a simple question,:gives: about whether you said this or ment that or whatever,I mean honestly........ to all you guys who got into the arguments about it and ruined a good forum...

:x: :wiggle: :rl: :bash: :ghey: :x:

[Var]

:werd:

Even though this thread was dead, i agree with you especially about ridicuous prices on import parts. For example on a 5.0 mustang, and tremec TKO transmission that can handle 600 plus horses is like 1500 bucks brand new. An eaton or auburn posi unit brand new costs 300 bucks. ring&pinion 200 bucks any ratio your heart desires.high performance MAF kit 200 bucks. injectors 370 bucks for 8, high performance. Jesus christ i should just go get another mustang.

[russian]

Originally posted by zero.counter
H22A swapped into a 91 Accord with a Phantom Grip installed by a newbie with no experience. It did improve the time and gave overall better grip.
I am going to pick apart your little comeback especially since my original post was not even geared towards you.

First of all, I am not some little piss ant teenager trying to be like the japanese and "Dorifto" like many here, and I don't mod to make people recognize me. I won't prove my experience to some person sitting behind their home computer that I don't even know or care to know. But, this issue will be discussed due to your ignorance in assuming that I have no experience considering that I don't even know who the hell you are.

(1)Do you have a Phantom LSD? If you do, then how is it? (2)If you don't, then how much more info about the phantom unit (from a users point of view) do you have over us who haven't used one either? (3)If you don't have a Phantom, then it's a little ignorant to defend it.
1. Yes I had. It is actually a great idea and works well, otherwise they would have been shutdown long ago for fraudulent claims, false advertisement, or bait and switch tactics.
2. Skipped since 1 was answered.
3. I did, you obviously did not know, and I was not the one to be ignorant but unfortunately...you were quick to draw a baseless conclusion. Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq??? Where.

Know I am sure of your age, you don't do you age group any justice. Go drift into a curb or something :D

RBS14, this is not a $60 turbo "As seen on T.V.". I guess all of the guys who believe that a name is everything are pretty shallow. There is something about many californians that is shared...

If I said that the RB series of engines were all shit and never even attempted a swap or driven an RB powered vehicle, wouldn't I look kind of silly?

Here is a good little saying, "Don't knock it unless you've tried it"!

If you want a little history on my views and how I have defended them in the past, take a look at some of my previous run-ins with hardcore body kit people around here.

You get what you pay for does not apply much, or our government would have a positive efficiency.

GoodBye ;)

You can PM me for further comments or continue making yourselves look like ****.


this was beautiful. you are the master of Ownage. :Owned:

[RBS14]

congrats on reviving a dead thread!

[Ghettokracker71]

:mrmeph:

have some patience with this newbie in training.......

:doh:

[docrice]

I think after 30 days of inactivity ( or even 15 or 20, depending i guess) a thread should be locked and be a view-only....if questions aren't answered, a new thread can go up, but dead threads are like wedgies, they just get everyone's nuts in a bunch.

[AutoDestruct]

I hold all of you responsible for completely wasting the last 30 minutes of my life. What a fucking waste of time. fucking immature fucking children:mad:

[russian]

Originally posted by AutoDestruct
. fucking immature fucking children:mad:

whos fucking who once again?:eek:

[Ghettokracker71]

Originally posted by russian
whos fucking who once again?:eek:

hah hah,yep! Sorry but I just want to know the answer,sorry if I opned back up a "dead thread" but that doesn't mean you had to "waste your time" reading it,thats your fault not mine man.