4.36 vs 4.11 gearing and other ?s

[sw20>>s14]

after MUCH deliberation (were, talkin years, lol), i've finally made a decision to change my R&P and install my diff at the same time...

-4.6 is way too short
-4.3 i'm still on the fence about, but would rather not
-4.1 seems perfect; best of both worlds

thats my preference, no need to convince me otherwise or bash on my personal choice...this car sees a lot of track time (mostly grip), but commutes even more...so im sure 4.3 is awesome, but not preferable for my highway commutes...the 4.1 seems the most versatile and applicable to my situation...

now, it seems unanimous that everyone loves the 4.36, but how about the 4.11?...i only remember one person stating its good because of its "in the middle attributes" and one other person saying he didnt notice a difference from stock...any other 4.11 owners care to share feedback?

also, i know about fixing the speedometer after installing a 4.3, but what about after a 4.11? 23T pinion? 22T pinion? stock 21T pinion?

thanks for any feedback or insight...

[Def]

Wait.. 4.11? Maybe that is an R200 ratio, but I don't think it's common at all.

Your stock ratio is 4.083 (49/12), so a 4.11 is a 0.6% difference.

I'll just save you the trouble and say stick with your stock ring and pinion if that's what your daily commuting heart desires.

[sw20>>s14]

yeah, its not much of a difference, but i remember a member saying it was a little better...hard to go off one persons vague response though so i was wondering if anyone else had feedback for a 4.11...id hate to admit it, but another reason for not going 4.3 is trying to find one thats reasonably priced and in stock...

[racepar1]

Having actually owned and driven a car with a 4.3 gearset I can assure you they are not too short. At highway speeds the engine is still at a decently low RPM and it definitely feels better then the 4.1 on the butt dyno. I would reccomend the 4.3 gearset to pretty much anyone with a KA or an SR (ESPECIALLY with a KA)...

[Def]

0.6% difference is laughably small. That's like the difference between full tread and 2/32" tread on your rear tires. Can you feel that difference? I know I can't!


As for the gear ratio for tracking, the 4.36 is basically mandatory for these cars when taking them to the track and looking to pick up some speed. The 4.08 is too long coming out of slower speed corners, and if you ever get into 5th gear the car is a dog. I don't really notice a difference in cruising "comfort" vs. the 4.08. It's about 9% shorter, so you'd go from about 3000 RPM to ~3300 RPM at 75-80 mph. That's not a big difference in my opinion, and it gives the car a reasonable chance of passing someone on the street in 5th gear without building lots of boost.

In fact, I wish there was something a hair shorter than the 4.36, but I do agree the 4.6 is too short for a car with decent power. 5th gear is going to be something that you can bury in the rev limiter on at least a few tracks around here. The 4.36 is still long enough that 5th gear is more than enough for any straight.

If you think it's too short, then just stick with your 4.08. A 4.11 is something you will never EVER feel any difference with.

[Mr.J]

My Silvia has a 4.111 ratio (it's a R180 diff). I don't think it would be worth the time and effort to choose this as an 'upgrade'. Go with the 4.36 or 4.6. That's what I will be doing when I install a R200 diff.

[codyace]

I love my 4.6, but as Def said you will tag the 5th gear limiter if you make decent power. With my tire/wheel setup, 8000 rpm is roughly 172 mph...

Regardless though, I'll live with running out of some gear at one section for a breif moment, to utilize the awesome 2nd/3rd gear low speed acceleration. In my case, the 4.08's sucked as I was seeminly always too high in a gear, or too low. The 4.6 solved that issue all around.

[2point0]

^What kind of power are you making?


Is there a big difference between the 4.08 and the 4.3k?

[slider2828]

Brian 4.3 MOFO!!!!! DOOO EEETTTTTTTTTTT!!!!! you won't regret it... Or you can ride in my 4.08 and then 4.3 when I get it in, which is about a week... LMK

[Def]

4.08 to 4.3 is not a big difference, but it's noticeable. It's just like all gears are a little shorter... no other way to describe it other than what it does. I didn't notice any real difference in cruising RPM. It's only a couple hundred RPM max... is that really a big deal? It's not like you're going from 3000 RPM to 4000 RPM. It'd be like 3000 RPM to 3250 RPM.

[codyace]

^What kind of power are you making?


Is there a big difference between the 4.08 and the 4.3k?

400whp


4.08 to 4.3 is not a big difference, but it's noticeable. It's just like all gears are a little shorter... no other way to describe it other than what it does. I didn't notice any real difference in cruising RPM. It's only a couple hundred RPM max... is that really a big deal? It's not like you're going from 3000 RPM to 4000 RPM. It'd be like 3000 RPM to 3250 RPM.


Even for me, it was only a 250-300 rpm woth of difference on the highway at cruising speed overall

(3000 rpm = 65ish, vs 2750 with the 4.08)

[Def]

Yea, I'm just going off memory - but as far as I can remember it was essentially "no change" on cruising RPM. Just a little more grunt in each gear. It still seems like 3rd gear is long enough to take you to the moon compared to most other cars... hah

As far as power, I'm pretty sure I make less power than the 2871R master codyace, but I'm probably in the ~350 rwhp ish range.

[swayray]

I did feel the 4.36 being a bit shorter but its not as bad at freeway speed. I had a stock KA, chromoly flywheel, 1 piece driveshaft, 4.36 on 235/40/17 size tires (the wheel diameter also has something to do with it) and I was able to get to about 70 mph at around 3500 rpms. Of course the speedo isn't accurate anymore so that speed was based on what my Garmin Nuvi indicated which is pretty accurate when I had that unit on my s14 on stock wheels/KA and final drive.

[codyace]

I guess the main thing I liked after going to the 4.6 was no difference in highway MPG...still gets 30mpg+ when being nice to her.

Hell after 2+ hours on track Sunday, I was in the 15 mpg range...can't complain for plenty of big speed WOT

[lazysk8er2]

whats the rpm range you see when going around 65mph with the 4.6 gears?

[codyace]

3000ish vs 2750ish

use a gear speed calculator like: Gear-Speed Calculator Program (http://www.kabamus.com/garage/gears.html)

If you are curious for your own setup

[sw20>>s14]

I guess the main thing I liked after going to the 4.6 was no difference in highway MPG...still gets 30mpg+ when being nice to her.


wow, how is that even possible? not stickin' it to ya, but i find that hard to believe...

thanks everyone (esp the 4.11 guys that chimed in), you guys gave me exactly what i needed...you know what they say: advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wont embrace it...i can just hear ken yelling 4.3 at me over and over...

now, where can i find a 23 tooth speedometer pinon?...i do enough guess work when riding bikes, i dont need my cars speedo to be off either...

[slider2828]

So is it still a 4.11 or a 4.3?

[Def]

wow, how is that even possible? not stickin' it to ya, but i find that hard to believe...

thanks everyone (esp the 4.11 guys that chimed in), you guys gave me exactly what i needed...you know what they say: advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wont embrace it...i can just hear ken yelling 4.3 at me over and over...

now, where can i find a 23 tooth speedometer pinon?...i do enough guess work when riding bikes, i dont need my cars speedo to be off either...

FWIW, my speedo is only off by 2% using a 4.36 diff with 255/40-17. Might not need much correction with bigger tires than stock. This was compared using the stock speedo up around 80 mph to eliminate as much error as possible and then a digital readout of the RPM and calculating the speed from there.

[Gription]

I like this idea ..Where can I obtain these 4.3 gears you speak of?? Didnt skylines use this ratio??

[codyace]

wow, how is that even possible? not stickin' it to ya, but i find that hard to believe...
.

Unsure...my car has always gotten fantastic fuel milage, as have all of the cars I really work on and or are around locally. Cruising afr is in the high 14/low 15, and timing is pretty conservative in that area with the JWT setup.

Around town and stuff I see 23-26, which isn't bad either. Beating on it is another story, but if I'm simply going for fuel milage (as in when I used to drive to watkins glen, a 3.5 hour drive) I'd fill before and when I got to track, and fill when I left track and got home, did the math, and both times were over 30 mpg. I do drive the speed limit though, maybe 5 over at most.

What pisses me off though is that my 'beater' A32 Maxima gets worse fuel milage than my fun car...but boy I guess that's the price to pay for heated seats and every option under the sun for the car hehe.

[racepar1]

For the fuel efficiency discussion, remember that lower RPM does not necessarily mean higher MPG. You will get the best MPG at the RPM where the engine is most efficient at the particular throttle input you are providing. That could be at all kinds of different RPM's depending on the engine, tuning, and conditions.

As for what cars the 4.3 is available in, i remember seeing a rough list here somewhere. Try searching in the tech/chat sections...

[articdragon192]

wow, how is that even possible? not stickin' it to ya, but i find that hard to believe...

thanks everyone (esp the 4.11 guys that chimed in), you guys gave me exactly what i needed...you know what they say: advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wont embrace it...i can just hear ken yelling 4.3 at me over and over...

now, where can i find a 23 tooth speedometer pinon?...i do enough guess work when riding bikes, i dont need my cars speedo to be off either...

The Nismo Shop has different pinions on their site.

[codyace]

For the fuel efficiency discussion, remember that lower RPM does not necessarily mean higher MPG. You will get the best MPG at the RPM where the engine is most efficient at the particular throttle input you are providing. That could be at all kinds of different RPM's depending on the engine, tuning, and conditions.

As for what cars the 4.3 is available in, i remember seeing a rough list here somewhere. Try searching in the tech/chat sections...


Most certainly. For my car's example, the 4.6 in fact works great as with any sort of incline, the short gears really help with the mechanical advantage...and just breathing on the throttle produces boost, so it really works out best for me as it uses little to no fuel at most.

[cotbu]

-4.6 is way too short
-4.3 i'm still on the fence about, but would rather not
-4.1 seems perfect; best of both worlds

When confronted with three choices of this type, the middle one is usually picked by consensus.

Ultimately whatever the car's going to be used for would help you narrow the choices.

Yeah, I run a 4.3!

[Tiny_T]

what does the 4.6 gear come in?

[jholman05]

Why hasn't anyone posted any usable data? Like differences in 1/4 mile time from one to another keeping everything else the same? Who really cares what the fuel economy or rpms you'll be spinning while you're mean muggin on the interstate. If you do this try to get some useful information with your current setup and your setup after the swap. Zilvia has to much speculation, not enough quality information.

A local 240 guy (450ish whp SR) just went from a 4.08 VLSD to a 3.54 VLSD from a Q45. We're not really sure what it will change but I'll try to come back here with some information after he gets it back together.

[modulation]

Why hasn't anyone posted any usable data? Like differences in 1/4 mile time from one to another keeping everything else the same?

Because keeping everything the same is impossible, your shifts will be different etc. most people on here don't care about quarter miles we are into autox/road-racing and some people are into drifting so the difference in quarter mile times for most of us matter less then what rpm we'll be running at on the interstate as we drive 3+ hours to the track.

[Def]

Why hasn't anyone posted any usable data? Like differences in 1/4 mile time from one to another keeping everything else the same? Who really cares what the fuel economy or rpms you'll be spinning while you're mean muggin on the interstate. If you do this try to get some useful information with your current setup and your setup after the swap. Zilvia has to much speculation, not enough quality information.

A local 240 guy (450ish whp SR) just went from a 4.08 VLSD to a 3.54 VLSD from a Q45. We're not really sure what it will change but I'll try to come back here with some information after he gets it back together.

I went from a 4.08 to a 4.36 and ran faster laptimes since I didn't have any additional shifts and could power out of corners and pull harder all the way to the next corner. It definitely helped boost come on faster coming out of slow corners by letting the engine RPMs get up faster.

There's no way in the world I'd ever go longer than stock gears even with 500 rwhp. I make probably in the mid-high 300's(small A/R 2871R), and I feel like maybe a 4.6 would even be doable. At that point though, I was worried about running out of gear in 5th on track, and potentially having 3rd get too short for most tracks around here.

[codyace]

what does the 4.6 gear come in?

Nismo, or
Front Differential from the Xterra

Why hasn't anyone posted any usable data? Like differences in 1/4 mile time from one to another keeping everything else the same? Who really cares what the fuel economy or rpms you'll be spinning while you're mean muggin on the interstate. If you do this try to get some useful information with your current setup and your setup after the swap.

I'd think someone as confident as you would be able to do some basic math/calculations to see which would be best for the HP and setup (per tire size). Dont' dismiss Zilvia as lemmings, when it's YOU who are at fault.

I'll entertain you: From a road race perspective, it works great. No longer do I find myself in that odd 'too high 2nd/too low 3rd' and can power out of 3rd.


Zilvia has to much speculation, not enough quality information.

The information is out there, it's just that Ziliva newbs can't sort out that search feature.



A local 240 guy (450ish whp SR) just went from a 4.08 VLSD to a 3.54 VLSD from a Q45. We're not really sure what it will change but I'll try to come back here with some information after he gets it back together.

It'll make it a highway star for sure, not much of a drag race car, unless he's got a huge tire on it.