Driving tips and tricks?

[HaLo]

Hey guys!

I began Solo2 (Auto-X) in my area this year. Thus far, I have always finished next to last in my category, which is the highest street category. I'm currently running a midly modded SR powered 240sx. I have EBC pads, SS brake lines, Motul Fluid, AGX+ Ground Control (425-375lb), S15 T28, on 215-235 Potenza's.

Now, when I get at the track, I set the AGX to 3 and 8, bring the pressure up to 40 psi all around, lower the boost to 7 psi to do my runs.

I need help from you guys that have more experience. Usually, on a run, I gun it at the beginning, shift into second and stay in second during the whole run.

Should I be switching gears from 1rst to 2nd often or it will make me lose more time?

As for attacking corners: I know grip driving is the best, but should I try to power my way out of a corner with throttle induced oversteer?

As for keeping the power constant... The Sr is such a nervous engine, it's always very hard to gage the throttle. My car jumps forward at the slightest touch and is slow when out of boost. Do you have any tips to keep the power under my foot (keeping boost) and tips to drive smoothly with this engine?

Actually, any tips would be helpfull.

I know that R-compounds will help me a lot (next year, i want to learn how to push my car with street compounds first) and that seat time is the best teacher. I just want to hear about your techniques so that I might be able to shave a few seconds off my runs.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by HaLo
Hey guys!

I began Solo2 (Auto-X) in my area this year. Thus far, I have always finished next to last in my category, which is the highest street category. I'm currently running a midly modded SR powered 240sx. I have EBC pads, SS brake lines, Motul Fluid, AGX+ Ground Control (425-375lb), S15 T28, on 215-235 Potenza's.
You're not running in a novice class?? The Street Modified class can be very competative (although some areas I hear are pretty weak). Anyways, it sounds like you've got a decent car, but what Potenza's are you using?? RE750's?? I can imagine traction might be a problem with those, esp. with narrow tires (215 becomes narrow in the SM class).
FWIW: my street tires are 235/ 245 Goodyear Eagle F1's (200 treadwear). My Victoracers are 245/245.

I know that R-compounds will help me a lot (next year, i want to learn how to push my car with street compounds first) and that seat time is the best teacher. I just want to hear about your techniques so that I might be able to shave a few seconds off my runs.
Oh man.... R- compounds are a whole different animal. You'll be re-learning the car all over again!! :p

Now, when I get at the track, I set the AGX to 3 and 8, bring the pressure up to 40 psi all around, lower the boost to 7 psi to do my runs.
Are you marking the sidewalls at all?? Try that, as well as feeling the surface of the tire after a run. See if the tires aren't over or under-inflated. The marking should be worn off most of the tires side block, but more importantly the tire should be evenly heated across the tread. On my tires I found the outsides were heating up MUCH more than the insides, and the tire rolling was causing this.

I need help from you guys that have more experience. Usually, on a run, I gun it at the beginning, shift into second and stay in second during the whole run.
Should I be switching gears from 1rst to 2nd often or it will make me lose more time?
I keep it in 2nd the entire time, even with a 3.9 final drive. Then again, I've got almost the same amount of power from 3k rpm to redline.
I've driven a few Sentras (SR20DE) and have shifted into 1st a few times, but even in those keeping it in 2nd is smoother (and ultimately faster). You just might have to re-work your line thinking about if you're going to be lugging in 2nd.


As for attacking corners: I know grip driving is the best, but should I try to power my way out of a corner with throttle induced oversteer?
I wouldn't try to induce oversteer (but then again my car oversteers when the wind blows the wrong way). The more sideways you are on the course, the slower you're more likely to go.

As for keeping the power constant... The Sr is such a nervous engine, it's always very hard to gage the throttle. My car jumps forward at the slightest touch and is slow when out of boost. Do you have any tips to keep the power under my foot (keeping boost) and tips to drive smoothly with this engine?
is it possible to put a bit of slack into the throttle cable?? otherwise, just ease onto the throttle as smoothly as possible.

Actually, any tips would be helpfull.

Just a few tips:
Keep an eye on your hand positioning. I was at an autocross with a bunch of Sentra guys and noticed the biggest problem was people crossing their hands and keeping them close together at the top of the wheel (which leaves you yanking the wheel instead of turning it).

Drive as smoothly as possible. Harsh throttle and steering inputs just make the car go where it wants, instead of where you want.

Finding a better line through corners often makes you faster than pressing the gas more.

Hopefully some other guys can add to this or comments where necessary.

Good luck!

[Bbandit]

on autoXes...
focus your eyes on the next set of turns instead of the turn you're at so you can positioned the car better when entering the next remaining turns..

feather gas pedal, brake BEFORE the turn, smoothness is the key
and go with grip all the way if you can.. try to avoid what we called "drifting"(unless if you just want to have fun around the course)
but me personally, i never did any drifting on purpose at any of my autoXes..
try to stay on the "line" like ace mentioned

stay with 2nd gear
sometimes i get into 1st (downshifting+heel and toe) on hairpins
and sometimes i can get into 3rd on short straightaways (maybe because of my 4.683 2 way diff)

im still sporting a 100%stock ka and i have some suspension mods+fm901's.. and im doing pretty good.. i can hang with the big boys and beat some of them

good luck, im sure you'll get the hang of it

[HaLo]

First off, I'd like to thank you for your tips and comments. It's very appreciated. I don't have a lot of input from fellow 240sx drivers in my area (because they don't Auto-X!!!!)...


Originally posted by AceInHole
You're not running in a novice class?? The Street Modified class can be very competative (although some areas I hear are pretty weak). Anyways, it sounds like you've got a decent car, but what Potenza's are you using?? RE750's?? I can imagine traction might be a problem with those, esp. with narrow tires (215 becomes narrow in the SM class).
FWIW: my street tires are 235/ 245 Goodyear Eagle F1's (200 treadwear). My Victoracers are 245/245.


There is no novice class in my area. Newbies are integrated with the current runners. In my class, I'm the only newbie that joined this year. My times are about 85-90% of the leader's time.

My Potenzas are RE01 in rear and RE711 in front. It's the equivalent of the RE730. I have very good traction with them for street driving and I have gotten the hang of them for auto-x. I can't really shove wider tires in front without getting some spacers.


Oh man.... R- compounds are a whole different animal. You'll be re-learning the car all over again!! :p


I don't doubt it. I heard it's the case. I'll probably be going with some 225/50-16 A032R on some lighter wight (15lbs) 16" wheels. That should help^a little on traction. ;)


Are you marking the sidewalls at all?? Try that, as well as feeling the surface of the tire after a run. See if the tires aren't over or under-inflated. The marking should be worn off most of the tires side block, but more importantly the tire should be evenly heated across the tread. On my tires I found the outsides were heating up MUCH more than the insides, and the tire rolling was causing this.


I wasn't marking the sidewalls. So basically, I mark them with shoe polish and check if the marks are evenly worn off? I'll try that. It should help me out. :)


I keep it in 2nd the entire time, even with a 3.9 final drive. Then again, I've got almost the same amount of power from 3k rpm to redline.
I've driven a few Sentras (SR20DE) and have shifted into 1st a few times, but even in those keeping it in 2nd is smoother (and ultimately faster). You just might have to re-work your line thinking about if you're going to be lugging in 2nd.


I wasn't sure about this one. Thanks. I'll keep 2nd gear. :)


I wouldn't try to induce oversteer (but then again my car oversteers when the wind blows the wrong way). The more sideways you are on the course, the slower you're more likely to go.


Thanks on this too, I needed a confirmation.


is it possible to put a bit of slack into the throttle cable?? otherwise, just ease onto the throttle as smoothly as possible.


My throttle cable is already at it's slackest... It can't be tightened properly.


Just a few tips:
Keep an eye on your hand positioning. I was at an autocross with a bunch of Sentra guys and noticed the biggest problem was people crossing their hands and keeping them close together at the top of the wheel (which leaves you yanking the wheel instead of turning it).


I usually hold my steering wheel between 2:50 and 3:45. (like on a clock). I believe I don't have a problem with that.


Drive as smoothly as possible. Harsh throttle and steering inputs just make the car go where it wants, instead of where you want.


Thanks, but that, I already knew. ;)


Finding a better line through corners often makes you faster than pressing the gas more.


Got any suggestions. Lines are a bit hard to figure out in auto-x. Should I always aim my exit for the next gate?


Originally posted by Bbandit
on autoXes...
focus your eyes on the next set of turns instead of the turn you're at so you can positioned the car better when entering the next remaining turns..


That, I already do! :) The moment I enter one gate, my eyes are on the next one or the next 2 ones.


feather gas pedal, brake BEFORE the turn, smoothness is the key
and go with grip all the way if you can.. try to avoid what we called "drifting"(unless if you just want to have fun around the course)
but me personally, i never did any drifting on purpose at any of my autoXes..
try to stay on the "line" like ace mentioned


Noted. Last minute braking should also be mentionned I guess?


stay with 2nd gear
sometimes i get into 1st (downshifting+heel and toe) on hairpins
and sometimes i can get into 3rd on short straightaways (maybe because of my 4.683 2 way diff)


Any tricks on getting the downshift + heel & toe smoother on an S13. I feel my legs are cramped there and I have no space to move... what about practice? Do you practice in the streets??


My next event is this sunday. I hope to fare well. I am getting better, but my category is very competitive... I'll keep you guys posted.

Any more input is welcomed.

[thelinja]

This may sound silly, but try to ride with more experienced drivers. You'll be surprised what you'll learn. You won't be concentrating on driving so you'll have a chance to compare the lines that you drive with those of a veteran.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by thelinja
This may sound silly, but try to ride with more experienced drivers. You'll be surprised what you'll learn. You won't be concentrating on driving so you'll have a chance to compare the lines that you drive with those of a veteran.

or if it's allowed, have an experience driver take a ride or two with you. Jeff (JMCN) and I did that when I first had the slicks on (Phil Kogan, placed 12th at Nats in 2002 in DSP IIRC). He helped us with everything from tire pressures to braking points.

Noted. Last minute braking should also be mentionned I guess?
Late braking will usually make you slower at the corner exit... especially with the SR, you might want to be braking earlier so you can start accelerating earlier (maybe a bit of that power-on oversteer).

I wasn't marking the sidewalls. So basically, I mark them with shoe polish and check if the marks are evenly worn off? I'll try that. It should help me out.
Well, marking the sidewalls (the edge of the tire) will let you see how much tire roll you're getting. Too much roll and you increase pressure. You want to decrease pressure to have more tire surface contact, and thus more traction. Of course, you have to make sure you don't over-do it, and end up rolling the inside of the tire off the ground, which is why you should also feel the tire surface to see if it's heating evenly.


Any tricks on getting the downshift + heel & toe smoother on an S13. I feel my legs are cramped there and I have no space to move... what about practice? Do you practice in the streets??
I try to not heel-toe downshift at autoxes, although I do it a lot on the streets (using the side of my foot instead of the heel). What I'll do if I need to downshift (usually when driving an underpowered car such as a Sentra) is just get the shift done early. Brake with the clutch in and shift to neutral, turn in while getting off the brake, rev match through the turn, get it in gear and be accelerating by the corner exit. If possible I'll even have it in the lower gear before the turn in. Basically, I just try to keep things simple. Complicating things (especially for drivers without a lot of [a few decades of] experience) usually hurts more than helps.


If you're in your first year (or worse, your second year) and you aren't doing so great, don't sweat it. Seat time is pretty much the only thing that will make you a better driver. Knowing the techniques is a part of it, but they aren't any good if you aren't putting them to use and learning how to use them best. You WILL get better as time goes by, so keep on autoxing!

[HaLo]

Well guys, as promised... the results of my last weekend event.

I'd like to thank you for your inputs, because they HELPED A LOT!

I marked down the tires and after my first run, I passed my hand on each tire to check their warmth. Seems that 40 psi all around with my car wasn't a great idea: 40-35 was the best with my setup and the car felt much more neutral! Very happy with that.

Also, we ran a very rapid course with 2 sections you had to downshift in 1rst. I'm satisfied with that too...

Now for the results: Keep in mind this is my 4th event, and only 3rd with my 240sx. I finished second to last with my 240sx everytime with SM class running around 11-15 people. Well boys, I finished 9th on 13 beating regulars (with at least 2 years experience). I'm utterly satisfied. I really felt I improved today and I must admit that Bbandit and AceInHole really helped out on this one.

Thanks a lot guys, my next event is in 2 weeks and I'll be sure to tell you how it goes.

[livnsideways]

sounds good man keep it up and soon you will be runnin at the top. and good luck at your next event

[AceInHole]

That's great that you were able to improve!!
What happens a lot of the time, though, is you improve rapidly over a few events, then hit a wall, and stay there for a long time (some people hit their "wall" earlier.... some later). Seems like all you needed was an edge to get you over the first "wall". Let's look for a 6th place next time maybe?? ;)


As for me... I've got the last event of the season coming up. Whoever wins this event, wins the season championship, and my co-driver (Jeff of www.jmcn.com) has bested me over the last 2 events. I've got very little time to get some improving done myself :p

[bobmeindertsma]

autoxing sounds like so much fun im going to have to start
that up next year.

[DuffMan]

How well you do in SM depends on the other drivers, because your car is way outclassed.

I would see how your times compare to people in street touring, because that is realisticly the level your car is at, even though the engine swap puts you in SM.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by DuffMan
How well you do in SM depends on the other drivers, because your car is way outclassed.

I would see how your times compare to people in street touring, because that is realisticly the level your car is at, even though the engine swap puts you in SM.

The only thing he's really missing are some R-compound tires, which would help immensely. But, if no one else is running R-compound tires, he fits into the class just fine.

[MovinUp-1]

His suspension still needs some development. He says he is turning the boost down to 7 psi to be able to handle the car. That's no good. Gotta be able to use the power of the SR, especially with the T28 already on it. The turbo should be spooling up really quick, which is great. His power is there, just needs some help harnessing it. The AGX shocks are OK, but not great. What spring rates are you running? Your car's biggest deficiency I see right now are the tires. You said you might go with Yoko A032r? I would suggest you try Kumho victoracers instead. Yokos are a bit harder than the kumhos. And besides, kunhos are relatively cheap compared to some (hoosier) tires.

You said you are already looking ahead but you said when you get to a gate you look to the next one. Might I suggest you try your best to look two gates ahead. The gate you are in should have been set up for two gates beforehand and therefore no visual reference into it is needed. This is the hardest thing to learn. You can never look too far ahead. Consider every corner as setting up for the next two corners.

You've got a great engine combo, you just need to get your suspension dialed in to handle the available horsepower so you can stop turning down the boost. Hope this rambling mess made sense to you and good luck at your next event.

[thx247]

you dont need R compounds right now.

Until you can drive consistantly and you need 1-2 seconds to beat the leader...thats when you could possibly make use of R compounds.

No offense intented, but right now I just see "Help, I flatspotted my Hooiser's!" threads in your future.

They are like everyone said, very different tires. I think learning how to drive clean, smooth events is more usefull than throwing money at the problem.

[HaLo]

Actually, my car has 2 defiencies:

1. driver
2. tires

Right now, I'm simply starting. That is why I make mistakes, I'm not too quick and I can't seem to handle the car very well. My spring rate is very hard: 425lb/in in front, 375lb/in rear. I have to master the car the way it is, then get some R compounds.

I know I can't be competitive as of now in my class. In my area, no one in my class runs street tires and have less than 2 years of autoX experience. I run street tires and have 3 events of experience. I'm at a disadvantage. Heck, I should be dead last. But I'm not and that really helps my morale. :)

I'm also very happy because for the very first time, I was able to handle 10 psi of boost and get better times with it.

I'll be posting more to give you details about my progression. After all, I'm the only 240sx in my area running regularly in autoX events.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by HaLo
Right now, I'm simply starting. That is why I make mistakes, I'm not too quick and I can't seem to handle the car very well. My spring rate is very hard: 425lb/in in front, 375lb/in rear. I have to master the car the way it is, then get some R compounds.
the only problem is that R-compound tires change the behavior of the car almost to the point where you have to re-learn how to drive your car.


I know I can't be competitive as of now in my class. In my area, no one in my class runs street tires and have less than 2 years of autoX experience. I run street tires and have 3 events of experience. I'm at a disadvantage. Heck, I should be dead last. But I'm not and that really helps my morale. :)
well, there IS one replacement for experience.... it's just natural ability. if you can beat guys with more experience, you can just say you're a better driver to begin with. :p we'll have to expect you to progress very rapidly from now on :D


I'm also very happy because for the very first time, I was able to handle 10 psi of boost and get better times with it.
you've just got to be VERY smooth with the throttle. a lot of the time you want to just jam on the throttle then back off it quickly. it may seem slower, but just taking some extra milliseconds to ease on and off the throttle will make your run smoother, keeping you on the line you want, pointed in the direction you want.

I'll be posting more to give you details about my progression. After all, I'm the only 240sx in my area running regularly in autoX events.
Can't wait to hear about you bringing home a trophy!!

As for progression.... i'm in my first year out of Novice and just won the last race of the season (well, points event), unofficially becoming the Street Mod season champ for the NER region (over my co-driver Jeff). Maybe we'll see the same out of you in a year or so?? Then we can all meet at Nationals :D



Anyways.... i forgot to mention walking the course. Sometimes you can go through a day improving on your times run after run, but only because each run tells you something about how you should take certain turns, and when to be on the brake, throttle, or even clutch. the more of that you can get done during the walk through, the less runs (precious, precious runs) you'll spend on "learning" how to drive the course.
Although.... it's sort of hard to explain how to go through a walk through since everyone will walk the course their own way. There WAS a pretty decent article in a recent issue of SportsCar though.....

[MovinUp-1]

Originally posted by HaLo
My spring rate is very hard: 425lb/in in front, 375lb/in rear. I have to master the car the way it is, then get some R compounds.


You may want to think about lowering your spring rates, especially in the rear. Try this: leave your front spring rates where they are and drop your rear rates to 325lb/in. You will find the back of the car much more controllable.

[sykikchimp]

Those rates seem kinda high for AGX's.. I agree throwing money at the car is not the answer yet. More seat time. Get all you can from the car. Then get some one better than you to drive it. If they are running similar times, then it's usually hardware limiting you. If its driver, obviously they will be faster.

this works b/c we often 'think' we've found the limits of our car, and really haven't. Getting a second opinion almost always opens your eyes a bit.

[HaLo]

Ace:

Well, don't get your hopes too high on me... :p I would love to win a few events, but I still believe I'm a few years from that... AS for walking the course, I usually walk it 2-3 times before the event starts. Afterwards, I walk the course on the side, watching how the others tackle the corners and the gates. That really helps a lot.

MovinUp-1:

I just got the rear springs. I had some 250lbs in the back and the car understeered way too much. Right now, it's much more balance and by playing with tire pressure and AGX damping, I can actually get the car to be very neutral.

Sykikchimp:

The problem is that in our area, we are not allowed to let another driver sit or drive our car for a run. The obvious reason is that it gives an advantage to the person that's sitting in the car...

I'm actually getting some second opinions here which are very eye-opening and useful. That is why I love this forum so much! Espacially this section! :)

[sykikchimp]

thats weird.. I guess you have to be signed up for the event with the car? like a 2 driver car. I see that a lot.

[HaLo]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
thats weird.. I guess you have to be signed up for the event with the car? like a 2 driver car. I see that a lot.

Actually, there's a few multiple driver cars, but you're only allowed to be in the car when you're the driver. You can have a passenger, but he has to be a spectator only, not a competitor.

[AceInHole]

Our region has an instructor program where an instructor can go along for a ride to help point things out. It REALLY helps a lot. It also helps to have a co-driver some events to get a second opinion on the car, and it's even better if the co-driver is better than (or at least as good as) you so you can see what the car is really capable of and have a goal to get to.

My co-driver and I constantly discuss what the car should be doing on what section. Lately it's been "oh man... we can get like another full second from the car..." (which has been set up and tuned beautifully for a smoother powerband thanks to some help from CIP). Part of that is the walk-through, part is while spectating other drivers on the course, and part is during our heat while we're taking runs.

I break the course down into sections which are approached differently. This makes it a lot easier to improve your times through the day, because you'll know after a run or two where the key to the course is. There's almost ALWAYS one, or maybe two, key section(s) that if done right, will guarantee a good time, and if screwed up, will demolish your run, even if you're not completely "on" for the rest of the course.

You can try to see what sections are on the throttle more, and where you can try to build up more speed by going through a previous section slower. Or you can see what sections are slow, so if you're coming out of a previous sections slower than you might want to it won't hurt as much, and maybe you can get a better line into the next section. At first within the sections, you're not really worried about where you are, mostly just how you're entering and exiting. From there you have your general line and can build from there to shave off the important tenths and hudreths of seconds. Otherwise you might be stuck just trying to fine tune sections that you're approaching wrong, working on the little stuff while you can be dropping times a lot more if you just look at how you're taking the sections (or course) as a whole.

I like to try and break the course down further so that I'm only using key cones, too. Sometimes there will be a lot of useless cones that you don't need to get close to, or worry about at all. Looking at fewer cones, you set some points where the car has to be positioned a certain way, and it gets a bit easier to drive the line to meet that position. It also keeps you looking further ahead, as you zone out the unimportant gates and look further for the next key cone or gate.

[240racer]

.I usually hold my steering wheel between 2:50 and 3:45. (like on a clock). I believe I don't have a problem with that.

I haven't done too much auto-x, so keep that in mind. When I have driven auto-x I didn't shift much, like only once or twice per lap. I think it might be best to have regular hand positions, like 10 and 2, instead of steering with one hand and having the other on the shifter like I drive on the street. Do other people use this method? I just leave my left hand at 10 when I take the right hand off to shift quickly and then bring it back to it's spot. It also makes a difference how far you turn your wheel, if you have to turn it almost a full rotation, then you get into some hand over hand stuff, but having both hands start at 10 and 2 instead of having just the left at 1, seems like a better start. I just noticed you talked about having your hand at 2-3 on the wheels a couple posts ago, that's what I am talking about

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by 240racer
I haven't done too much auto-x, so keep that in mind. When I have driven auto-x I didn't shift much, like only once or twice per lap. I think it might be best to have regular hand positions, like 10 and 2, instead of steering with one hand and having the other on the shifter like I drive on the street. Do other people use this method? I just leave my left hand at 10 when I take the right hand off to shift quickly and then bring it back to it's spot. It also makes a difference how far you turn your wheel, if you have to turn it almost a full rotation, then you get into some hand over hand stuff, but having both hands start at 10 and 2 instead of having just the left at 1, seems like a better start. I just noticed you talked about having your hand at 2-3 on the wheels a couple posts ago, that's what I am talking about

I believe when he said he keeps his hands at 2-3 he means near 180 degrees apart, at the sides of the wheel, instead of 10 and 2 (closer to the top).
I usually try not to go hand over hand at any time during an autocross run. I think you get more control sort of "shimmying" the wheel, but I thought there was a debate on that a while back on zilvia.

[sykikchimp]

If I am going into a tight corner, I always "shuffle steer" to keep from getting crossed up. Getting crossed up is bad.. it's hard to make small adjustments to your line when your all crossed up.

[240racer]

sounds like the way you would want to do it. It's hard to get out of the habit of palm steering from my days of driving in snow. Now I have to stop crossing up. Oh well, looks like I'm running an auto-x at the end of september. Too bad the 240 isn't running and I have to drive my new '88 celica alltrac turbo instead. Oh well, the 240 drives like crap anyway, it needs some springs and dampers.

[HaLo]

Wow! Too much info! :P Must try this this weekend! :) I'll keep you posted.


As for my hand positionning, it's between 10-2 and 9-3. :)

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by HaLo

As for my hand positionning, it's between 10-2 and 9-3. :)

Thats where mine are.. but say I'm approaching a hard left, I'll readjust my right hand so its at 4 or 5. Star turn, right hand moves to 1-2 while turning, move left up from 6-7 to 11-12, and continue turning if necessary..

basically just try to keep hands near the 10.5-2.5 area while turning.