PDA

View Full Version : SCCA holding drift competitions???


Drift_Ladie
08-08-2003, 03:11 AM
i'm new so i don't know if this been talked about or not but i heard that SCCA might adopt drifting as it's new type of competition... is this true??????

Bbandit
08-08-2003, 09:15 AM
i've never heard such a thing
and i dont think SCCA will adopt it... well at least for now
drifting is more like a show/contest or skill exhibition rather than racing

Dousan_PG
08-08-2003, 09:17 AM
gymkhana is reallly the only thing they could do...

defnately NOT drifting as far as competition wise here. drifting is like figure skating. its all about a judges opinion, not a time trial.

AKADriver
08-08-2003, 10:13 AM
SCCA isn't interested.

NASA is, though. HypeRfest events include drift competitions, as well as racing, touring laps, and HPDEs.

AceInHole
08-08-2003, 10:22 AM
Since when does SCCA only have to be about time trials?? You've got stuff like Old Timer Road Rallies where you're being quizzed more on general knowledge than navigating, which is still more important than speed (or the lack there-of). SCCA stands for Sports Car Club of America. Not "we only race grip style on closed courses".


I'm not saying SCCA and drifting go together, or should. That's up to:
1. The SCCA to take up the organizational role to hold drift events
2. The drifters to accept the organizational level of SCCA events

The SCCA really needs to draw in more members, and have them stay with it, so there's a good reason for the SCCA to think about adopting drift events. Drifters want (at least, I'd HOPE they want) more events available to them so they have more seat time and can practice/ learn more, so there's a good reason for drifters to want the SCCA to adopt drift events.




There was a long thread on this in the SCCA forums. I guess things are just spreading from there.

AceInHole
08-08-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by AKADriver
SCCA isn't interested.

At this point it seems everything is a rumor... or did the SCCA put out a formal statement saying they will not be hosting drift events??


http://www.sccaforums.com/

SR20VET
08-08-2003, 10:48 AM
I'll say the same thing here as I've said everywhere. SCCA needs new members. Drifter need lots, and airfeilds to drive on. SCCA can get them, and boost their coffers with the membership fees and race entry fees from the drifters. Simple as that. We encourage them to help us set up events, they make a little money and attract the 16-25 year old crowd.

Beef
08-08-2003, 11:55 AM
The president of the SCCA had an in depth article several issues ago in Grassroots Motorsports. I'd suggest you read that before you say things such as "SCCA has no interest in drifting."

btw...link on SCCAforums is http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001116.html

nokeone
08-08-2003, 02:17 PM
^^ wow i'm impressed..the majority of the responses on the SCCA thread were quite open minded and intelligent..

i really hope they persue it..be a great way to have more events at a reasonable cost..

:D

AceInHole
08-08-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by nokeone
^^ wow i'm impressed..the majority of the responses on the SCCA thread were quite open minded and intelligent..

i really hope they persue it..be a great way to have more events at a reasonable cost..

:D

LoL... us "grip drivers" aren't ALL bad....

The big deal from a few people I have talked to is that the SCCA will bring more organization and control to a potentially dangerous (more so than usual) motorsport. It's bad enough that Rally Trials have suffered after a recent incident involving fatalities. An accident in drifting, coming so soon after that, could potentially ruin things entirely in the US.

Bbandit
08-08-2003, 03:08 PM
personally
i think drifting will be better off if run by a club.. specific club.. like drifting club..
so if something bad happens (accidents, hopefully not) it will only affect the club itself rathen ruin the whole SCCA big organizations

nokeone
08-08-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by AceInHole
LoL... us "grip drivers" aren't ALL bad....

haha..:)..true that..it was just after the first couple of negative posts i was happily surprised to see the following change to a resounding voice of support..even from some american car drivers..not to stereotype but camero drivers are generally not the most tolerant of imports and their trends..exceptions to every rule..:)..and i was pleased to see the support for Motorsports over all..not just a specific genre..

Originally posted by AceInHole
The big deal from a few people I have talked to is that the SCCA will bring more organization and control to a potentially dangerous (more so than usual) motorsport. It's bad enough that Rally Trials have suffered after a recent incident involving fatalities. An accident in drifting, coming so soon after that, could potentially ruin things entirely in the US.

i completely agree..i think the most difficult aspect will be beginners recognizing that they need to start slowly and safely..it's not like grip driving where even the worst driver can get through a course, albeit slowly..if unskilled individuals are drifting beyond their abilities it could get messy very quickly...i think maybe a licensing program of sorts would work well in this case...

who knows..just thoughts..:)

AceInHole
08-08-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by nokeone
i completely agree..i think the most difficult aspect will be beginners recognizing that they need to start slowly and safely..it's not like grip driving where even the worst driver can get through a course, albeit slowly..if unskilled individuals are drifting beyond their abilities it could get messy very quickly...i think maybe a licensing program of sorts would work well in this case...

Well... it's very possible for unskilled drivers to get through a drift course, IF the course is setup well enough. Down at E-town for DOW event 5, there was a corner that was VERY close to a light post. Saw more than a couple cars come a bit too close to it for comfort.

SCCA autocrosses generally allow instructors to ride along with novices (although novices seem to not utilize this enough). If they could do so for drift events then the problem wouldn't be so bad. Some local clubs around here require first time autocrossers to take an instructor for at least their first run with the club.

NASA is supposed to be holding "drifting schools". Not sure how they're going to carry that out, but autocrossing for novices is pretty much always a "school", as long as the novice is willing to ask questions and maybe take an instructor. I wasn't aware NASA did anything autocross related... and for drifting to take place at a grassroots level, they're pretty much gonna be looking at autox sites to hold events at. Just a reason the SCCA might be better suited to handle drifting.

JasonNagra
08-08-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by SR20VET
I'll say the same thing here as I've said everywhere. SCCA needs new members. Drifter need lots, and airfeilds to drive on. SCCA can get them, and boost their coffers with the membership fees and race entry fees from the drifters. Simple as that. We encourage them to help us set up events, they make a little money and attract the 16-25 year old crowd.

I agree.

nokeone
08-08-2003, 03:48 PM
yup..all very true..i guess one of the major problems in these sports is pride...beginners are unwilling to take constructive criticism or ask for help because they want to look good for their peers...not all of course..but many that i have seen...it's a very "know-it-all" demographic..

oh well..it'll be interesting to see what the future holds..:)

AceInHole
08-08-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by nokeone
yup..all very true..i guess one of the major problems in these sports is pride...beginners are unwilling to take constructive criticism or ask for help because they want to look good for their peers...not all of course..but many that i have seen...it's a very "know-it-all" demographic..
yet it's interesting that some people would end up looking better taking an instructor out a few times to help their driving, instead of railing cones and spinning out and going off course. oh well, some people will never learn... (so said by someone who trophied [2nd] his first time out with no instructor :p, yea i sux0rz)

oh well..it'll be interesting to see what the future holds..:)
I'm sort of undecided whether I want the SCCA to hold drifting events. Seems like the organization and safety level of the SCCA is unwelcomed by some drifters, and some SCCA members are afraid of the negative aspects of allowing drifting competitions to take place at autox or road race sites.

Jsquared
08-08-2003, 04:29 PM
SCCA stands for Sports Car Club of America. Not "we only race grip style on closed courses".
ha, tell that to the local organizers :rolleyes: :rolleyes: if you even APPEAR to be drifing they give you a lecture about it, usually while some old guy in a stock miata is out there throwing bigger slip angles than you were. i mean most of the people there are cool, but there is a lot of bias from some of those guys. i'm not talking about trying to drift at an autoX, I'm talking just pushing the car hard and it getting tail happy. some jerk even lectured my friend who was there with his 944turbo... he did NOTHING out of hand, the guy basically did it because he say "young guy, nice car" and decided to be a jerk. I got so ****ed I nearly gave up SCCA for good. I'm seriously thinking about doing more NASA events now...

nokeone
08-08-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Jsquared
I'm seriously thinking about doing more NASA events now...

NASA isn't any better: http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33589&perpage=30&pagenumber=2

they threatened to ban me..lol..

we were of course "trying" to drift...but we didn't do anything wrong...people just fear what they don't understand..it's the root of all prejudice..

Drift_Ladie
08-08-2003, 07:30 PM
...people just fear what they don't understand..it's the root of all prejudice..
haha i agree

if the scca were to host drift events that would be nice.... and it would be nice to have a course to practice drifting on instead of drifting out in public areas where you gotta trip about getting caught by the cops... :axe:

if scca were going to adopt drifting, then it would just be a a good benefit for both of us, they get a youger crowd to their organization, and we get a place to drift. sounds like a good deal to me :)

TBreu007
08-08-2003, 08:36 PM
I would like to see it, but I really don't see SCCA adopting drift with open arms. Improved Touring has been their bread and butter for years, yet it's still somewhat looked down upon by the big wigs at SCCA...it isn't even a national class yet has the greatest number of drivers.

Also, to compete in so much as a road course time trial, you have to have a cage. How many current street drifters want to cramp their street car with a cage and add all the other saftey requirements like a $400+ fire suit, battery cutoff switch, proper fire system/extinguisher, etc.? I think once you add up all the people that want to drift SCCA style and can actually afford it, or want to fully prep their car, I don't think there's enough people to support drifting...especially on the east coast.

In addition, I don't think most road racers have fully adopted drifting. I can appreciate drifting's coolness factor, and it's sweet to feel the back end of your car sliding around dirt track style, but to most road racers, drifting is to be avoided as it's not exactly the fastest way around a race track. I guess drifting is kind of looked at as impropper racing, or racing with bad technique or something.

AceInHole
08-08-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by TBreu007
I would like to see it, but I really don't see SCCA adopting drift with open arms. Improved Touring has been their bread and butter for years, yet it's still somewhat looked down upon by the big wigs at SCCA...it isn't even a national class yet has the greatest number of drivers.
more people drive IT than Solo II?? Wow... NER has like 200 cars at some Solo II events....

Also, to compete in so much as a road course time trial, you have to have a cage. How many current street drifters want to cramp their street car with a cage and add all the other saftey requirements like a $400+ fire suit, battery cutoff switch, proper fire system/extinguisher, etc.? I think once you add up all the people that want to drift SCCA style and can actually afford it, or want to fully prep their car, I don't think there's enough people to support drifting...especially on the east coast.
Are you implying that the SCCA would host drift events on tracks?? Cause... most drift events, maybe 95% of them in the US... are held on parking lots. The reason for the safety equipment at track events is because of the speeds involved, and the insurance policies of a lot of tracks require such safety equipment anyways.


In addition, I don't think most road racers have fully adopted drifting. I can appreciate drifting's coolness factor, and it's sweet to feel the back end of your car sliding around dirt track style, but to most road racers, drifting is to be avoided as it's not exactly the fastest way around a race track. I guess drifting is kind of looked at as impropper racing, or racing with bad technique or something.
but... that's a comparison of drifting to something it isn't. one way to put it is: drifting is a practice of car control, while going fast is a result of car control.
to argue that the SCCA is only about going the fastest around a track completely ignores Solo II and, even more so, Road Rally.

TBreu007
08-09-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by AceInHole
more people drive IT than Solo II?? Wow... NER has like 200 cars at some Solo II events....

I'm pretty sure SCCA makes more off their IT people at 60 cars a weekend at $200 or so a car (not to mention licensing, etc.) than the 200 cars Solo II cars at $40 (or however much an autocross costs).

Originally posted by AceInHole
Are you implying that the SCCA would host drift events on tracks?? Cause... most drift events, maybe 95% of them in the US... are held on parking lots. The reason for the safety equipment at track events is because of the speeds involved, and the insurance policies of a lot of tracks require such safety equipment anyways.

I have no idea what SCCA will or won't do. I'm just stating my opinion that proper drift sessions on track won't happen with the SCCA. The only thing I know about drifting is what I see in the occasional e-mail clip I get from friends where people are drifting Silvias and Supras, etc. on tracks and twisty roads in Japan...and that's cool to watch (and do), but after waiting all day on hot blacktop, a few sideways runs through a set of cones seems like little to get worked up about.


Originally posted by AceInHole
but... that's a comparison of drifting to something it isn't. one way to put it is: drifting is a practice of car control, while going fast is a result of car control.
to argue that the SCCA is only about going the fastest around a track completely ignores Solo II and, even more so, Road Rally.


If Solo II isn't about who goes through a set of cones the fastest from one point to another, they must do it very differently where you are. Solo II is all about who can run the course the fastest, and road rally is more chess than a true motorsport.
I'm not arguing against drifting. I can see how it's fun. I'm letting you know the mindset of numerous road racers I've talked to on the subject.

thx247
08-10-2003, 02:37 AM
throwing my 2 cents in. I would be VERY suprised to see the SCCA sponsor anything drift related.

doriftokouki
08-10-2003, 11:13 AM
Well I dont know about SCCA but it really does erk me how all the ameteur and regalur track day solo scca guys are bad mouthing drift, it sounds like a bunch of senior citizens ****ed off because there will be a new flavor of jello. Even if the ameteur guys dont like it, I have a friend who races pro for grip, and he is really getting into drift, also Ryan from Bondurant racing school is heavily into drift and both Bondurant and Skip Barber showed up at the D1 driver search to drift, and they are both very well known schools for grip. We'll see what happens.

-Nick

AceInHole
08-10-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by TBreu007
I'm pretty sure SCCA makes more off their IT people at 60 cars a weekend at $200 or so a car (not to mention licensing, etc.) than the 200 cars Solo II cars at $40 (or however much an autocross costs).
Well, the way I think of it is: it costs a LOT less to put on an autox than to do a track event. I thought for a club to put on a track day @ $200 a car with like 60 cars, they aren't really making a profit... but, if you say they make more $$ off of it, then I guess you know more about it than I do. I was more or less refuting:
it isn't even a national class yet has the greatest number of drivers.



I have no idea what SCCA will or won't do. I'm just stating my opinion that proper drift sessions on track won't happen with the SCCA.
then I guess it boils down to what "proper drift sessions" are. To me, it's an organized event where "drifting" is the objective of the event.

but after waiting all day on hot blacktop, a few sideways runs through a set of cones seems like little to get worked up about.
some people say the same thing about autox. i still do it as much as possible and love it.

If Solo II isn't about who goes through a set of cones the fastest from one point to another, they must do it very differently where you are.
Solo II plays a few roles though. I guess the role I was thinking of was Solo II as a training ground, much like a drift practice. Maybe I've been hanging around too many of my Novice friends lately.... I probably could've made a better statement though. But, you're right. For the most part it's all about who's fastest.

Solo II is all about who can run the course the fastest, and road rally is more chess than a true motorsport.
and so you're admitting that the SCCA does do "non-true-motorsport" type of events. Drifting could very well fall into that category.

I'm not arguing against drifting. I can see how it's fun. I'm letting you know the mindset of numerous road racers I've talked to on the subject.
I get mixed opinions from roadracers and fellow autoxers though. Some are for it, some are hardset against it. I'd just like the option to stay open, that's all. I myself am unsure of whether or not the SCCA has a place in the "drift world" to begin with.

thx247
08-11-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by AceInHole
I myself am unsure of whether or not the SCCA has a place in the "drift world" to begin with.

Thats probably the biggest issue at hand when you look at the whole picture

MovinUp-1
08-11-2003, 09:20 AM
the biggest improvements SCCA could bring to organized drift events is having the proper safety equipment in place, excellent insurance coverage for all competitors and spectators, and setting up drift courses that would not have potentially dangerous corners in it like some have mentioned here. Things like designing a corner that puts the cars too close to a light pole would be a LOT less likely to happen at an SCCA sanctioned event. If SCCA really wants to do it I think it'll work out fine for everyone. Hopefully it will event get some of the drifters more interested in other SCCA events

sykikchimp
08-11-2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by MovinUp-1
Hopefully it will event get some of the drifters more interested in other SCCA events

I think thats the main reason the SCCA is considering it. They need a way to increase membership and expand. It seems they are becomming a bit stagnant, and New Orgs like NASA are taking potential memberships.