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View Full Version : s14 t28 spooling early?


Options13
03-28-2010, 07:12 AM
got my motor all hooked up! and im not sure if this could be because my motor is maybe off timing? but my turbo will spool really early it seems like, i will be in the low 2k rpms and it sounds like my turbo is spooling, pretty loud, and im also getting compression surge while moving, but when the car is sitting and i rev it there is very little to no compression surge, anyone know whats up?timing?
i have sr20det, with s14 t28 turbo with hks bov, isis front mount intercooler, enpalthy tune, 480cc injec, 264 toda racing cams, toda adjustable cam gears

so let me know what you guys think it could be

PoorMans180SX
03-28-2010, 07:14 AM
Your BOV is adjusted wrong. Ball bearing turbos need a load to spool, which is why it doesn't compressor surge at idle.

Loosen up your BOV spring and it should blow-off while driving.

Options13
03-28-2010, 02:34 PM
ok i'll see what i can do about the bov, i was also told my timing is too retarted

PoorMans180SX
03-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Unless your engine gets really hot or is low on power, I wouldn't worry about the timing for now. Make sure you BOV is working and then take it for a drive. If it runs real hot then it could be timing. I really doubt anything else is wrong if you didn't mess with the timing (Taking the CAS out or whatever).

Options13
03-29-2010, 05:19 PM
nope i drove it about 5 miles to a gas station, but i babied the shit out of it, the temp is real steady in the middle of the gauge, and it feels like it has power, i just don't want to give it full throttle just incase... i was told that maybe my actuator is stuck shut? i don't have a boost guage so i don't know where my boost is building at

the t28 is just really loudly spooling at like 2k with my foot bearly on the gas, so i dunno..

spiderlone
03-29-2010, 05:33 PM
Buy a boost gauge. Sounds like your blow off valve Is leaking! plus a boost gauge will help you check your vaccum pressure which can tell you If you do have any vaccum leaks such as a leaky blow off valve.

Options13
03-29-2010, 05:48 PM
hmmm, if it is a leaky bov, do i just tighten the spring? i was told the V2 hks ssqv shouldn't need to be adjusted at all

KoukiMonsta
03-29-2010, 07:11 PM
i kinda want to lean towards timing, except you dont get compressor surge by just free revving. which i have typically seen.

as for the BOV you need to make sure it is working properly. if u drive it hard does it blow off?

the BOV WOULD give you alot of compressor surge if it doesnt properly open, but wont spool your turbo any faster.

is the wastegate functioning properly?

Options13
03-29-2010, 11:32 PM
yeah i don't know if its working properly, when free revving it seems like it is, but like is said when im in gear it wants to surge, i took off the back peice on my bov and i don't really see how it can be adjusted? i see a big nut type thing looks like a 16mm but doesn't look like its meant to be adjusted, i may have a v2 ssqv..

as for the actuator i tested it today by sucking on the vacc line to the actuator and keeping it on my toung to see if it kept suction, and also i blew compressed air into the line to see if it would do anything, and it seems to move correctly... maybe its my vacc source? should i use the same vac source for my FPR and BOV? and a seperate line for my actuator?

here the bov

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC05857.jpg

Options13
03-30-2010, 04:49 PM
this has been happening from the start but its kind of getting worse... the fact that the motor wants to stall out after revving now.. used to only do that when driving

its very shaky, and it wants to stall out after i rev it, and as you can see my bov ain't doin shit..

YouTube - sr20det haggard idle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmqkPeYjk58)

Om1kron
03-30-2010, 05:01 PM
your timing is off. it's spooling and creating boost with no load which means timing.

My timing was off by 33 degress and I was creating 10lbs of boost with NO LOAD which is not supposed to happen.

Simone Video Blog - Boost Gauge Readings on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/8542377)

Options13
03-30-2010, 06:13 PM
could timing be the reason it is wanting to die too?

Om1kron
03-30-2010, 06:42 PM
if the bov is not recirculated (which yours is not obviously) then it will have a problem catching it's idle. sometimes it may choke out and die. make sure the electrodes on the maf itself are not caked with dirt.

Options13
03-31-2010, 12:21 AM
they aren't maf looks rather clean

i popped the valve cover off, these cam gears are on stock settings correct? they may be a hair off, but i don't see how that could make a dramatic difference.

intake
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC05900.jpg

exhaust
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC05902.jpg

ILoveJDM
03-31-2010, 12:41 AM
arnt there supposed to be 2 dark colored chain links? one on the intake and one on the exhaust side?

Options13
03-31-2010, 12:43 AM
ah yes, there is.. for some reason i took these pics at 2 separate times... also is it possible my car could be idling like that because my maf is mounted to close to my turbo?

p.s - i also grounded the coil pack ground in between a nut a washer on the valve cover, that ok?

s13 drifta
03-31-2010, 12:16 PM
Your coilpack ground is supposed to be bolted to the back of the head.

Options13
03-31-2010, 03:12 PM
all the bolts on the back of the head are too big to even fit through the coilpack ground

teamsprock
03-31-2010, 03:41 PM
First you need to check the ignition timing using a timing gun. The cam timing looks good, only thing I couldn't verify from your two pics is that there are 20 pins between the alignment marks on the cam gears but if you were at TDC when you took this the cam timing looks good. Also those shiny links don't mean much and will only line up every few rotations. Anyone who has worked on an SR very much will almost never use those links to install a timing chain.

Next how can you say your turbo is spooling too quick? Spooling quickly is good as long as you don't have compressor surge and your ignition timing is set right. Its impossible for any of us to say your car is spooling too quick. Especially with a T28 you should be midway spooled by 2,000 rpms. But you need to get your timing set, if you have the valve cover off still re-stab your CAS. This should get it very close, close enough that the idle problems should go away. I've had an open atmosphere BOV for 5 years and never once had my car die from it. Do you have Electric fans? If so they can pull too much draw and cause a car to stall out on decel or idle.

Also maybe I missed it but was the comments on adjusting your BOV about your idle or your turbo spooling? You turbo spooling quickly would be a refelction of the exhaust system not the intercooler piping. If the BOV leaked you should be running rich, and will also generally see slower spool. And if your BOV never even opened you can't get a turbo to spool faster that way. Many people with BB turbo's don't even run BOV's, the only time this will help with spool is during transient response (staying spooled during shifts). Things like the size of your piping can help it "spool" faster as the piping/manifold will fill faster and show the pressure quicker, but the turbo itself is still spooling at the same rate essentially, other than that the extra pressure flowing through the head will help the turbo spool up but that is not going to be enough difference to really notice.

My suggestion is check the timing/re-stab the CAS, then test it out. If you still have idle problems there are a ton of other things we can check but first things first you need your timing right. With aftermarket cams it would be a good idea at some point to degree them just to make sure you get the most out of them. But they should be close enough right now that you can enjoy your car without any drivability issues. I'll try and follow up with this thread to see what you find and see if I can help with any more suggestions. Feel free to PM me if you need any specific help.

Options13
04-01-2010, 02:34 AM
Do you have Electrichttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif (http://zilvia.net/f/#) fans? If so they can pull too much draw and cause a car to stall out on decel or idle.

hmm that might just be my problem! THAT and timing, i am going to reposition my cas tomorrow, and install a stock crank pulley back on, since the pulley i had only has a mark for TDC..

as far as my efans go, i had the power wire running to the engine control fuse, i took it out and shoved the wire in there... think that may be my stalling problem?

also for my ground for my coilpacks, you think its ok that i have the ground in between a washer and nut on my valve cover?


oh and thanks a lot man, your post may have just solved my stalling problems

teamsprock
04-01-2010, 10:04 AM
You should really try and ground the coilpacks somewhere like the head or intake manifold. Not the valve cover. But that shouldn't effect your idle like this. I've seen plenty of ghetto wired 240's with that ground not even used. If you have a volt meter you should check the ohms of any grounds to find the best ground possible. But thats probably overkill in this situation.

Do you have relays for your E-fans? If not you really should be using a relay for each fan. If you search on here there is plenty of threads showing how to wire these up but if you need help let me know and I can help you out. Pushing the wire into a fuse is never a really good permanent way to wire anything.

Options13
04-01-2010, 03:41 PM
alright, i'll look into getting relays

also im trying to re-position my CAS and it lines up with the left notch like FRsport says
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC05918.jpg

but it only lines up when the CAS is set like this
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC05919.jpg

Options13
04-02-2010, 01:01 AM
i also found out why my car may have been dying.. i wired my e-fans wrong, i just shoved the power wire to my e-fans under the engine control fuse in my fuse box, it worked for a little bit... i took the fuse out and it was blown.. replaced it and motor seems to run ALOT better, i don't exactly see where to get my power source for my efans... so you were right on the money teamsprock!


i think my BOV is leaking, i drove the car a little today in my driveway, it won't build boost, it sounds like it is, but not according to the gauge!

OR could my CAS be a tooth retarted again?! i stabbed it multiple times and got the same results (pics above)

Homer_Simpson
04-02-2010, 01:30 AM
First you need to check the ignition timing using a timing gun. The cam timing looks good, only thing I couldn't verify from your two pics is that there are 20 pins between the alignment marks on the cam gears but if you were at TDC when you took this the cam timing looks good. Also those shiny links don't mean much and will only line up every few rotations. Anyone who has worked on an SR very much will almost never use those links to install a timing chain.

Next how can you say your turbo is spooling too quick? Spooling quickly is good as long as you don't have compressor surge and your ignition timing is set right. Its impossible for any of us to say your car is spooling too quick. Especially with a T28 you should be midway spooled by 2,000 rpms. But you need to get your timing set, if you have the valve cover off still re-stab your CAS. This should get it very close, close enough that the idle problems should go away. I've had an open atmosphere BOV for 5 years and never once had my car die from it. Do you have Electric fans? If so they can pull too much draw and cause a car to stall out on decel or idle.

Also maybe I missed it but was the comments on adjusting your BOV about your idle or your turbo spooling? You turbo spooling quickly would be a refelction of the exhaust system not the intercooler piping. If the BOV leaked you should be running rich, and will also generally see slower spool. And if your BOV never even opened you can't get a turbo to spool faster that way. Many people with BB turbo's don't even run BOV's, the only time this will help with spool is during transient response (staying spooled during shifts). Things like the size of your piping can help it "spool" faster as the piping/manifold will fill faster and show the pressure quicker, but the turbo itself is still spooling at the same rate essentially, other than that the extra pressure flowing through the head will help the turbo spool up but that is not going to be enough difference to really notice.

My suggestion is check the timing/re-stab the CAS, then test it out. If you still have idle problems there are a ton of other things we can check but first things first you need your timing right. With aftermarket cams it would be a good idea at some point to degree them just to make sure you get the most out of them. But they should be close enough right now that you can enjoy your car without any drivability issues. I'll try and follow up with this thread to see what you find and see if I can help with any more suggestions. Feel free to PM me if you need any specific help.

This right here.

Did you count the pins between the marks like he asked?

When I did my swap, I was boosting wicked fast. I tried to set timing with a gun using the loop as well as a high tension cable but it was all over the place. I counted the pins and sure enough I was off a couple tooth.

Count the pins and report back.

Options13
04-02-2010, 01:33 AM
haha when you say count the pins, what pins? lol

Homer_Simpson
04-02-2010, 01:37 AM
haha when you say count the pins, what pins? lol

The rollers on the timing chain. Those little shiny bars on the chain. Count how many you have between the marks on the timing gears.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/WilloW0024/lame.png?t=1270190430
Excuse the lame circling job.

Options13
04-02-2010, 01:44 AM
in this pic the engine isn't on tdc, but i don't see the difference

inbetween i counted 20, i'm not sure if i count'ed right though

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC05741-1.jpg

Homer_Simpson
04-02-2010, 01:48 AM
As long as there's 20 pins in between then you should be able to set timing with the gun.

Options13
04-02-2010, 01:51 AM
alright, damn i wish i got a video of my car idling and reeving, do you think i'de be ok driving the car about 10 miles to a shop to get it timed?

Homer_Simpson
04-02-2010, 09:07 AM
alright, damn i wish i got a video of my car idling and reeving, do you think i'de be ok driving the car about 10 miles to a shop to get it timed?
Just get the cheapest timing gun at Autozone, its like $29.

Om1kron
04-02-2010, 12:39 PM
alright, damn i wish i got a video of my car idling and reeving, do you think i'de be ok driving the car about 10 miles to a shop to get it timed?

as long as you don't goose it. but seriously a timing light is your best bet and a necessary tool to have in your arsenal since you already got an engine stand and the motor out of the car from what I'm looking at.

snafupossum
04-02-2010, 01:20 PM
When you first start the car, does it idle very low then do that surging idle after it warms up or you drive it around? like in this video YouTube - first run of rebuilt 240 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfLMYESFZlE)

Options13
04-02-2010, 05:54 PM
ok so i wired the e-fans today seems to be good so far! anyways i got a video of the idle and boost gauge readings, lmk if somethings up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVujoAdHCl0

snafupossum
04-02-2010, 10:13 PM
were do you have the vaccum line for the boost gauge hooked up? those readings look like its hooked up on the intake pipe rather then intake mani vaccum.