Cheap jack... [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

sph33r

06-12-2003, 09:13 AM

I appreciate the price, but the horror stories scare me. There are tales of the Harbor Freight jack breaking or bending. Now, I've looked at one at my local HF and I couldn't see how it would bend so I'm kind of tempted. The store near me had stacks of them and it is definately a sweet jack. It's pretty low too.

It's been tested against a few other jacks and did ok I guess.

http://www.vorshlag.com/tech_jacks1.html

240 2NR

06-12-2003, 10:17 AM

The horror stories I've heard about this and similar aluminum jacks is the pad breaking due to an uneven load. When centered they seem to function fine, but if badly offset it seems that the aluminum fatigues easy and just shears off a corner. I've not seen anything about them failing to work and replacing just the pad should be easy enough.

It's a pretty low jack at under ~3" of clearance, though I would probably still have to roll my front tires up onto some 2x6's for that extra 1 5/8" of clearance.

This currently my debate between a steel American made jack (hard to find and lately have been in the worst colors, like powder blue) with a low seat height, that would probably last the rest of my life, or this aluminum jack. Both are roughly the same price, at or just under $200 though there's about 60lbs between them. For the weekend hobby and track weekend stuff I do I'm leaning toward the race jack and if the need ever arises to get the heavy duty steel one when I'm working on cars almost everyday.

sykikchimp

06-12-2003, 10:23 AM

I don't really compare the race jack to a good shop jack.

One of these days I want to get this jack for the shop, and I'll use the HF jack strictly for track days.

http://www.vorshlag.com/tech/floorjacks/AC_dk13hlq.gif

3.1" saddle, and 29" lifting height :eek:

240 2NR

06-12-2003, 10:41 AM

Wow, I saw that AC hydraulics jack in an ad for a porsche parts supplier for like $600. It sounded like a badass jack but not for the price, If I could get it for just over $200 (provided shipping doesn't rape you) I'm sold. Better quility, lower rise (that stays low for 16" then rises, sweet!!!), and still a reasonable weight at 68lbs.

http://www.vorshlag.com/tech/floorjacks/AC_dk20.gif

240racer

06-12-2003, 10:42 PM

HBF has free shipping

Flybert

06-13-2003, 09:19 AM

If you're really cheap like me, you can go get a 2 ton jack and 2 jackstands for $20 dollars from Kragen. They don't go that high but it's worth it.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Flybert
If you're really cheap like me, you can go get a 2 ton jack and 2 jackstands for $20 dollars from Kragen. They don't go that high but it's worth it.

did you NOT read what was said above?
those jacks are JUNK.

more proof 240sx drivers are CHEAP

AKADriver

06-13-2003, 10:25 AM

My roommate has one of those... "pro-lift" or whatever.

When a steel jack weighs less than a decent aluminum jack... I worry! You can really feel the sweatshop manufacturing quality.

sykikchimp

06-13-2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by AKADriver
My roommate has one of those... "pro-lift" or whatever.

When a steel jack weighs less than a decent aluminum jack... I worry! You can really feel the sweatshop manufacturing quality.

Lol, I own a "pro-lift" pep-boys jack too. total POS... you have to pump it 25 times to get the car up. Since I got my HF jack, I don't even have to use the wood planks to get the jack under my car anymore. I love it. It comes with this check valve too. Simply loosen the handle, and pump a few times. WAALAA, jack is bled.

A good jack is a beautiful thing. Next on my list is an Impact Wrench.

240 2NR

06-13-2003, 11:20 AM

I picked up a pro lift as well (bundled with jack stands for a whopping 20 bucks) when I thought I was going to be getting an LSD. It seemed like a good investment for dropping and lifting the diffs. I have yet to actually use it on my car, I'd rather use the scissors jack. The pad is way too small to be effective. Those big 4" pads on real dolley jacks are great becuase they cradle the diff or are wide enough to lift the front cross member, while low enough to get under there. It seems to work well for my dad when changing tires since Honda's have a different pick up on the frame rails, so I just gave it to him.

I'm pretty sold on that blue jack both of us pictured above. For a little more than the "racing jack" it should far out live it and withstand a lot more abuse. That's my next garage buy after a bench vice.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 11:30 AM

sissor jack? those are SOO DANGEROUS imho.
i never use one..refuse they are junk. oem crap
the pep boys jack (prolift) for the diff...that's stupid. plain and simple. there no way unless you are SUPER careful and ballsy to balance a diff on it.

240 2NR

06-13-2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
sissor jack? those are SOO DANGEROUS imho.
i never use one..refuse they are junk. oem crap
the pep boys jack (prolift) for the diff...that's stupid. plain and simple. there no way unless you are SUPER careful and ballsy to balance a diff on it.

Only to lift the car, I use jackstands when I'm under it.

The prolift would have just been used to raise and lower the diff and I would have had an extra pair of hands. It shouldn't have been that bad ~80lbs, the car would have been up on stands and ramps anyway.

Like I said, not the best setup, and the reason why a real shop jack is next on my list.

TBreu007

06-13-2003, 03:25 PM

I have the HF aluminum jack, and I have used the ultra-slick $600+ racing jacks, and my HF jack is just as good. It doesn't look as polished, but it works just as well.
I don't trust ANY jack while I'm under the car...jackstands only.
Trust me, the other steel jacks that some of you are talking about don't hold a candle to this jack. The car is off the ground and I'm swapping tires in three pumps. Most regular shop jacks take about 10+ pumps. If your car is too low for this jack to get under, your car is wayyyy too low and you musy not have ANY suspension.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by TBreu007
I have the HF aluminum jack, and I have used the ultra-slick $600+ racing jacks, and my HF jack is just as good. It doesn't look as polished, but it works just as well.
I don't trust ANY jack while I'm under the car...jackstands only.
Trust me, the other steel jacks that some of you are talking about don't hold a candle to this jack. The car is off the ground and I'm swapping tires in three pumps. Most regular shop jacks take about 10+ pumps. If your car is too low for this jack to get under, your car is wayyyy too low and you musy not have ANY suspension.

ahh little is your knowledge for this...
i have coilovers
double height adjustable so my shock travel is NOT compromised/changed by my car's ride height.

btw: myself, jdmrice, jspec, and many of our friends can not get the HF jack under the car w/o the 2 jack technique or boards.

TBreu007

06-13-2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
ahh little is your knowledge for this...
i have coilovers
double height adjustable so my shock travel is NOT compromised/changed by my car's ride height.

ahh little is your knowledge for this...
Who are you, Yoda?

Anyway, I don't care if you have $4000 a corner Penskie coilovers, if your car is that low, you won't have much if any suspension travel. No matter what kind of adjustments you have, there is only so much space in the fender well for a wheel to travel within its suspension range. ANY time you lower a car, you lessen the amount of room in the fender well.
If your car is so low, what have you done to correct bump steer? I bet nothing. Bump steer correction is as important as lowering a car to get it to handle properly...but I guess you're more into how it looks, huh?

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by TBreu007
ahh little is your knowledge for this...
Who are you, Yoda?

Anyway, I don't care if you have $4000 a corner Penskie coilovers, if your car is that low, you won't have much if any suspension travel. No matter what kind of adjustments you have, there is only so much space in the fender well for a wheel to travel within its suspension range. ANY time you lower a car, you lessen the amount of room in the fender well.
If your car is so low, what have you done to correct bump steer? I bet nothing. Bump steer correction is as important as lowering a car to get it to handle properly...but I guess you're more into how it looks, huh?

tie rod endlinks fix my bumpsteer. a-arms coming soon for rear soon enough.
i have Tein coilover for now
fender well? coilovers are STIFF travel is minimal to NONE depending on my damper setting. i can put the tire in up against fender and i wont hit it! no fender lining in front. rolled fenders this month

bumpsteer is a-ok. very minimal. not bad at all.
mostly because of my wheel useage do i get more bumpsteer depending which wheel i use at the time.

looks? hahaha..i am at the track 2-3 times a month. stfu before you try and school people! hahahaha..

anything else :newbie:?

TBreu007

06-13-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
tie rod endlinks fix my bumpsteer. a-arms coming soon for rear soon enough.
i have Tein coilover for now
fender well? coilovers are STIFF travel is minimal to NONE depending on my damper setting. i can put the tire in up against fender and i wont hit it! no fender lining in front. rolled fenders this month

bumpsteer is a-ok. very minimal. not bad at all.
mostly because of my wheel useage do i get more bumpsteer depending which wheel i use at the time.

looks? hahaha..i am at the track 2-3 times a month. stfu before you try and school people! hahahaha..

anything else :newbie:?

Travel is minimal to none...yea, you really sound like you know what you are doing...cars don't need suspension travel, R I G H T!

How do wheels influence bump steer? Bump steer is a toe change as the suspension goes through its range. Tires would have nothing to do with that. But if you don't have any suspension travel, you won't have bump steer issues. All these pro race teams (some of which I have worked with) should just take away suspension like you did to cure bump steer...damn, you solved the problem. :rolleyes:

If you're at the track 2-3 times a month, you're there looking like a fool bouncing around with no suspension.

Take this information from someone who actually races competitively, and not as some punk kid who thinks he's the next Dori.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by TBreu007
Travel is minimal to none...yea, you really sound like you know what you are doing...cars don't need suspension travel, R I G H T!

How do wheels influence bump steer? Bump steer is a toe change as the suspension goes through its range. Tires would have nothing to do with that. But if you don't have any suspension travel, you won't have bump steer issues. All these pro race teams (some of which I have worked with) should just take away suspension like you did to cure bump steer...damn, you solved the problem. :rollseyes:

If you're at the track 2-3 times a month, you're there looking like a fool bouncing around with no suspension.

Take this information from someone who actually races competitively, and not as some punk kid who thinks he's the next Dori.

next dori? i do drift, for about a year now
i must be looking like a bouncing fool next to the national auto x champs who have a very stiff suspension as well hahahaha..
i never said tires, i said WHEELS the round objects tires go on. put a low offset wheel on a car and feel the differences.
so you say take away suspension. oh yea, tie rod endlinks are useless. dont need those. oh sh!t how are the wheels going to turn now?! dont need a-arms too..oh crap how is the rear spindle going tos tay on? take away suspension, yeah it will magically float there, merlin.

my friend works for team lexus. what's your point about you working for one...or claiming too?

as i said, DOUBLE HEIGHT ADJUSTBALBE COILOVERS. my shock stroke is NOT affected by lowering my car. are you stupid? or just uneducated about coilovers?

TBreu007

06-13-2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
next dori? i do drift, for about a year now
i must be looking like a bouncing fool next to the national auto x champs who have a very stiff suspension as well hahahaha..
i never said tires, i said WHEELS the round objects tires go on. put a low offset wheel on a car and feel the differences.
so you say take away suspension. oh yea, tie rod endlinks are useless. dont need those. oh sh!t how are the wheels going to turn now?!

my friend works for team lexus. what's your point about you working for one...or claiming too?

as i said, DOUBLE HEIGHT ADJUSTBALBE COILOVERS. my shock stroke is NOT affected by lowering my car. are you stupid? or just uneducated about coilovers?

That's the point...they have suspension...you claim to have no travel.
Sorry...semantics I typed tires, I meant wheels. WHEELS, no matter what offset won't cure bump steer problems.

What exactly do you mean by tie rod end links? Are they adjustable vertically and horizontally? Here in the racing world on planet Earth we call those spherical tie rods used with bump steer spacers on the a-arms.

You thinking your suspension travel is not changed in any way by lowering the car is just ignorant. Think about it for a second. Better yet, play along. Make your hand into a fist (this is your wheel). Take your other hand like a "C" (this is your fender) and place it over your fist. Start at a certain height with them not touching (this is stock ride height) now lower the hand that is shaped like a "C". Does your fist (wheel) still have the same room to move around? NO! So in effect, by lowering the car, you have taken away suspension travel. You could have 4' of stroke left on your strut, but if there is no where for the tire to go in the fender well, you're screwed.

If I have to educate you any more, you'll get my bill in the mail.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by TBreu007
That's the point...they have suspension...you claim to have no travel.
Sorry...semantics I typed tires, I meant wheels. WHEELS, no matter what offset won't cure bump steer problems.

What exactly do you mean by tie rod end links? Are they adjustable vertically and horizontally? Here in the racing world on planet Earth we call those spherical tie rods used with bump steer spacers on the a-arms.

You thinking your suspension travel is not changed in any way by lowering the car is just ignorant. Think about it for a second. Better yet, play along. Make your hand into a fist (this is your wheel). Take your other hand like a "C" (this is your fender) and place it over your fist. Start at a certain height with them not touching (this is stock ride height) now lower the hand that is shaped like a "C". Does your fist (wheel) still have the same room to move around? NO! So in effect, by lowering the car, you have taken away suspension travel. You could have 4' of stroke left on your strut, but if there is no where for the tire to go in the fender well, you're screwed.

If I have to educate you any more, you'll get my bill in the mail.

again i have to explain this
double height adjustable coilovers
http://www.jic-magic.com/susp/flta2/FLTA2s15front.gif

from JIC USA website:
The ride height is adjustable separate from the spring perch giving you maximum suspension travel at any setting. This also allows for proper corner weighting of the vehicle without effecting spring preload settings.

look, same style as mine, but this pic is better then the tein so
now see how the SHOCK perch is adjutable. the spring perch wont change so you are not compressing the shock when its off teh car. you lower and raise the car via shock height, which wont change shock stroke
need more explanation?

yeah vertical and horizontally adjustable endlinks.
"spherical tie rods"
i said tie rod ends. if i need to explain it more clearly for you, hey whatever works. but yeah thats it.

so you say, bumpsteer wont change if i go from a +40 to a -10 offset wheel huh?

TBreu007

06-13-2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
again i have to explain this
double height adjustable coilovers
http://www.jic-magic.com/susp/flta2/FLTA2s15front.gif

from JIC USA website:

look, same style as mine, but this pic is better then the tein so
now see how the SHOCK perch is adjutable. the spring perch wont change so you are not compressing the shock when its off teh car. you lower and raise the car via shock height, which wont change shock stroke
need more explanation?

yeah vertical and horizontally adjustable endlinks.
"spherical tie rods"
i said tie rod ends. if i need to explain it more clearly for you, hey whatever works. but yeah thats it.

so you say, bumpsteer wont change if i go from a +40 to a -10 offset wheel huh?

Dude, I know very well what double height adjustable coilovers are. I've installed both the JIC's and Teins. I'm just saying, don't think because Tein or JIC says you can go as low as you want without losing travel, it means you can. I didn't even touch on CG and roll center crazyness that happens when you go too low. I started out thinking lower is better, but after raising my last car only 1" I dropped 2 full seconds at the Homestead track. My GC, roll centers and bump steer was all out of wack; raising the car helped, but didn't look as cool.

Bumpsteer really won't change as you go wider (lower offset) with wheels. It is a ratio of the tie rod to the swing arm...that is why you use bump steer spacers and try to get the tie rod back in line with the suspension travel. You may be thinking of how the wheel "tracks" across uneven pavement, or how the car pulls as it goes over a bump. A lower offset wheel will hide some of this bumpsteer by making the car more stable, but the cornering bumpsteer problems will still be there, and you won't be gatting the most out of your front tires without proper correction.

Gotta go...off to the kart track to practice.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by TBreu007
Dude, I know very well what double height adjustable coilovers are. I've installed both the JIC's and Teins. I'm just saying, don't think because Tein or JIC says you can go as low as you want without losing travel, it means you can. I didn't even touch on CG and roll center crazyness that happens when you go too low. I started out thinking lower is better, but after raising my last car only 1" I dropped 2 full seconds at the Homestead track. My GC, roll centers and bump steer was all out of wack; raising the car helped, but didn't look as cool.

Bumpsteer really won't change as you go wider (lower offset) with wheels. It is a ratio of the tie rod to the swing arm...that is why you use bump steer spacers and try to get the tie rod back in line with the suspension travel. You may be thinking of how the wheel "tracks" across uneven pavement, or how the car pulls as it goes over a bump. A lower offset wheel will hide some of this bumpsteer by making the car more stable, but the cornering bumpsteer problems will still be there, and you won't be gatting the most out of your front tires without proper correction.

Gotta go...off to the kart track to practice.

so we agree on the shock travel part. cool
yeah i can see that with ground control and my setup as well, dependign if everything else (suspension peices) are in tune w/ the car's height.

i have made sure my car's handling is on par w/ my setup. i have replace all but 3 arms on my car's suspension (replaced w/ spherical ends). i got flca, 1 rear part (front) and a-arm left to replace. i have made sure the car handles very well, and it does, and corrected as much of the handling as possible.

some punk kid i am huh?

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by TBreu007
Dude, I know very well what double height adjustable coilovers are. I've installed both the JIC's and Teins. I'm just saying, don't think because Tein or JIC says you can go as low as you want without losing travel, it means you can.

you said:

Make your hand into a fist (this is your wheel). Take your other hand like a "C" (this is your fender) and place it over your fist. Start at a certain height with them not touching (this is stock ride height) now lower the hand that is shaped like a "C". Does your fist (wheel) still have the same room to move around? NO! So in effect, by lowering the car, you have taken away suspension travel. You could have 4' of stroke left on your strut, but if there is no where for the tire to go in the fender well, you're screwed.

i NEVER lost shock/strut stroke travel (like you did w/ the GC) w/ the double height adjustable setup.

but wait, you said you already knew what that mean, why tell me your fist explanation then? shock travel NEVER changed. suspension travel did, but i already told you i corrected any problem w/ interference w/ my car, as well as fender clearance. also the rest of the suspension was set up as well to deal w/ the height change.

TBreu007

06-13-2003, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by dousan36
you said:

i NEVER lost shock/strut stroke travel (like you did w/ the GC) w/ the double height adjustable setup.

but wait, you said you already knew what that mean, why tell me your fist explanation then? shock travel NEVER changed. suspension travel did, but i already told you i corrected any problem w/ interference w/ my car, as well as fender clearance. also the rest of the suspension was set up as well to deal w/ the height change.

My bad, I slipped on a typo...I typed GC down below...I meant to type CG. My struts were double height adjustable as well, but that doesn't matter when other things are screwed up. You could have the best struts in the world with them setup perfectly and if your roll centers are off, the car will feel like crap. Look at your suspension, with the car being so low, the suspension is at wacky angles and moves on planes that is less than condusive to proper function. You said your suspension was set up to counteract those changes. The only way to do that is to change stock mounting points. I SERIOUSLY doubt you have put that kind of time and money into that. Please read some books on the subject like Tune to Win or Race Car Engineering and Mechanics. You'll learn a lot and will look back on what you have posted and be embarassed.

You say you have some spherical parts...I have full sphericals in all moving parts in my suspension as well as full racing struts and a built KA race motor. My 240 is a fully stripped and roll caged race car that isn't even street legal...what does that mean...nothing. I guarantee my car is prepped far more than yours for racing, and I did everything myself, so don't try to pull that one on me.

Dousan_PG

06-13-2003, 11:25 PM

hey that's great for you! keep up the hard work!

boro240

06-14-2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by TBreu007
You say you have some spherical parts...I have full sphericals in all moving parts in my suspension as well as full racing struts and a built KA race motor. My 240 is a fully stripped and roll caged race car that isn't even street legal...what does that mean...nothing. I guarantee my car is prepped far more than yours for racing, and I did everything myself, so don't try to pull that one on me.
lol, this turned into a "HEY LOOK HOW BIG MY PENIS IS!!!1" thread.

240racer

06-14-2003, 03:26 PM

Please read some books on the subject like Tune to Win or Race Car Engineering and Mechanics.

I have read those books, and you still sound like an idiot. shooting off your mouth like that will make everybody hate you. If you know so much and have the experience of doing all that stuff to your car, then most people would be interested in hearing about it. However, this is the wrong thread for that.

TBreu007

06-14-2003, 04:52 PM

I didn't start the **** talking, but I must admit, it did get out of hand. Guess I was bored yesterday.

240 2NR

06-15-2003, 12:30 AM

While some good point on suspension tunin are being brought up, please remember that this is (er...was) a jack thread.

Take it somewhere else.

As for Dousan's point about jack clearance, I have a similar problem due to the front lip on my 93. While not that low (whiteline works kit ~1.5" drop) the jack has issues with clearance. The saddle clears fine, but somewhere in the next 16" as the jack gets taller that I begin having issues. The front tires on a set of 2x6's seems to cure the problem though. Side panels and the back are easy, but front head on there's not enough room to jack the jack in position to lift anything but soft metal panels that contain oil.

thx247

07-16-2003, 01:15 AM

the harbor freight jack is basically worthless when it comes to litfting your 240. Even at stock height, the jack hits the front lip when you try to stuff it under the car, you have to put the car on boards or if its lowered many boards to get the jack under it.

You can lift hondas with it quite easily, since their jack point is very close to the front of the car. Otherwise harbor freight is good for lifting trannies while under the car, um...lifting the rear of the 240, dats bout it. Price is right I guess.

Halz

07-18-2003, 05:11 PM

Wow! Who would have thought that such a discussion could have taken place in a thread about jacks.. ('thread jacks', maybe..)

The HF aluminum jack is sitting in my garage seeing little use.. Where it can get under the car (and by no means is the car super-low; 14.75" front, 13.25" rear), it can't lift high enough to get a jackstand under the frame rails.
Its an expensive, light jack that can pretty much only lift the car up on its side under the frame rails, depending on the anti-roll bars to pick up the wheels so they can be taken off.

..and about the rest of the discussion about 'jacks', TBreu007 looks to be one of the few people on this board that knows what they're talking about; his side of the argument was productive and was able to back up claims, citing published material..

RedMist

07-20-2003, 01:32 PM

Just a quick observation after reading through this post….
OT from jacks but it seems it wasn't a jack thread for long anyway.

TBreu007 and dousan36 compete in very different types of motorsport, requiring very different setups. TBreu needs some travel and roll to maintain grip through corners. Dousan can run a super stiff setup because it's acceptable to have the rear flick out around every corner. Both seem to have considerable experience, just on different levels. So, IMO, comparing apples and oranges...