View Full Version : The Track Cat...
s14unimog
11-06-2009, 09:10 AM
Ran across this on a local forum; anybody running one of these?
http://www.fatcatfabrication.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/111.JPG
http://www.fatcatfabrication.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/222.JPG
http://www.fatcatfabrication.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/333.JPG
Apparently its a little shop down here in Georgia called Fat Cat Fabrication
"The Track Cat" Nissan 240sx S13 Rear Suspension System (http://www.fatcatfabrication.com/id3.html)
ka-titties
11-06-2009, 09:45 AM
those things dont do shit.
MandTPhotography
11-06-2009, 09:57 AM
Well that looks...interesting.
WagDatto
11-06-2009, 10:19 AM
Is that an actual cantilevered coilover setup? Or is it just coilovers mounted to a trunk strut brace?
It LOOKS like it's the actual suspension, which would mean it'd work just fine, but even on the web site, it doesn't show much detail...
s14unimog
11-06-2009, 01:33 PM
Is that an actual cantilevered coilover setup? Or is it just coilovers mounted to a trunk strut brace? It LOOKS like it's the actual suspension, which would mean it'd work just fine, but even on the web site, it doesn't show much detail...
It actually supposed to be a cantilevered coilover setup. I've followed along with the thread on the local forum and one of the guys has apparently seen it in person. I'm sure if anyone interested they could give him a call. I have an S14 so...
those things dont do shit.
You're an idiot...
Been discussed a bit on Nissan Road Racing - my vote is stupid "race car" bling. The benefits are ridiculous, and the chance of those dampers being properly valved for the motion ratios and spring rates involved is pretty low.
g-via
11-06-2009, 07:23 PM
definite repost on zilvia...
Team DET
11-06-2009, 07:33 PM
meow ....lol remind's me of this FIT from SS
Extreme Dimensions 2007 Honda Fit Interior View Honda Cbr 600Rr Shocks Photo (http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0702_extreme_dimensions_2007_honda_fit/photo_02.html)
g-via
11-06-2009, 08:18 PM
those things dont do shit.
you don't understand how suspension works yet.
please, study.
udon!
11-06-2009, 08:20 PM
rather have M I R A C L E X .
last time i came accross that online it was like $900
ka-titties
11-06-2009, 11:26 PM
post counts dont represent actual knowledge, remember that.
like i said before, but this time with a little more detail.
that specific part for the s13 chassis doesnt do shit.
WagDatto
11-06-2009, 11:40 PM
post counts dont represent actual knowledge, remember that.
like i said before, but this time with a little more detail.
that specific part for the s13 chassis doesnt do shit.
It's not just a rear strut brace. The rear struts apparently travel up through the top of the strut tower and triangulate that pressure down through the coilovers mounted to the strut brace. At least... that's what I'm assuming.
ka-titties
11-06-2009, 11:54 PM
that is a very accurate assumption. what they need to show is that there is a suspension "push rod" that comes from where a coilover would normally go to make the springs/struts they put there usable.
either way, i'm with Def.
Z28ricer
11-07-2009, 12:35 AM
Ok so its been discussed on nissanroadracing, but realistically, whats the probability of it at least being on par with some good typical coilovers ?
MavericStephenc
11-07-2009, 05:20 AM
Ok so its been discussed on nissanroadracing, but realistically, whats the probability of it at least being on par with some good typical coilovers ?
first you'd have to determine what a "good typical coilover" is.
however as to the comments that this suspension setup is usless.... read a damn book, hell look at the guys in the little known race series F1. this suspension design has proven itself time and time again. and the physics behind it I don't know ( haven't found the info yet).
but before you bash on me I'm not saying the track cat is a god send when it comes to suspension tuning, and I'm also not saying that this specific example is built the way it should be. I simply don't know. however that type of suspension setup is tits.
Stop shooting down shit you don't understand.
first you'd have to determine what a "good typical coilover" is.
however as to the comments that this suspension setup is usless.... read a damn book, hell look at the guys in the little known race series F1. this suspension design has proven itself time and time again. and the physics behind it I don't know ( haven't found the info yet).
but before you bash on me I'm not saying the track cat is a god send when it comes to suspension tuning, and I'm also not saying that this specific example is built the way it should be. I simply don't know. however that type of suspension setup is tits.
Stop shooting down shit you don't understand.
I understand it(probably better than most here), and still say it's 100% useless.
Pushrod suspensions are used in Formula cars for packaging/aero reasons. Fast door slammers use nice dampers mounted in the normal location(in the wheel well).
Very slightly reduced unsprung weight is stupid at the expense of probably 40+ lbs way up high in the chassis.
S14DB
11-07-2009, 09:02 AM
I saw this a couple months ago when someone familiar with their honda applications showed me they came out with this.
Cantilever set up is good when you want a lot of shock travel with little wheel travel. Damping really heavy spring rates.
These seem to be motorcycle rear shocks designed for a vehicle with a lot less weight. I don't see how they could manage the weight of a car. Also, what do you run at the front of the car? Not going to be a balanced setup in travel, damping and spring rate.
Except the motion ratio between the wheel and shock is REDUCED very clearly in this "awesome setup."
atutt
11-07-2009, 09:29 AM
What is purpose of this set up?
MavericStephenc
11-07-2009, 12:54 PM
by the looks of it this guys has no need for the cantilever setup however I still don't see how it could be a complete waste... having a cantilever setup frees up a lot of room from what I understand, and its benefits are minimal at least.
as for the weight, how much are we really adding?
removing the stock shock and spring.....20 pounds? tops? (each side)* correct me if I'm wrong here*
installing the push rod setup including the cantilever pivot and coil......for shits lets say 25 tops. (each side)
being that its only in there rear that's a net gain of 10 pounds (estimated) * I dont include the rear brace/mounting system because half of us have some sort of rear brace or some bar so I don't see how it could be held against the setup.
if it were a track car than there would be other ways to shed the weight to make up for the suspension.
in this specific setup the benefits of the altered suspension geometry outweigh the added 10 pounds.
he may want to fit some super hot wheels, or likes the benefit of a cantilever, who knows.
but it still remains the same mabye not for this specific app. but cantilever had been proven. it may not be for the street but on the track it performs.
I'm going to e-mail them though and see if i can get a dyno on the coils
Also, what do you run at the front of the car? Not going to be a balanced setup in travel, damping and spring rate.
I very much agree.
Z28ricer
11-07-2009, 01:02 PM
he may want to fit some super hot wheels,
THIS,
That was sorta my reason for considering it, however after looking at the pictures more I realized its not going to fit under the stock privacy cover.
I was considering using it in hopes of fitting wheels with enough backspacing to get some 275/40/17's under the rear of my S13, without any sort of poking out or rubbing.
S14DB
11-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Except the motion ratio between the wheel and shock is REDUCED very clearly in this "awesome setup."
I wonder if they even calculated the ratio?
brndck
11-07-2009, 02:51 PM
hey, i'm just glad to see that people are still developing new products for s-chassis.
even if this version isn't practical, maybe v2 or v3 will be an improvement....
THIS,
That was sorta my reason for considering it, however after looking at the pictures more I realized its not going to fit under the stock privacy cover.
I was considering using it in hopes of fitting wheels with enough backspacing to get some 275/40/17's under the rear of my S13, without any sort of poking out or rubbing.
You can fit 275/40-17s on an S13 if you get a +35 or +40 wheel and roll the fender lips. That tire size totally sucks though, feels like driving on marshmellows. Give me a 255/40-17 over that anyday.
by the looks of it this guys has no need for the cantilever setup however I still don't see how it could be a complete waste... having a cantilever setup frees up a lot of room from what I understand, and its benefits are minimal at least.
as for the weight, how much are we really adding?
removing the stock shock and spring.....20 pounds? tops? (each side)* correct me if I'm wrong here*
installing the push rod setup including the cantilever pivot and coil......for shits lets say 25 tops. (each side)
being that its only in there rear that's a net gain of 10 pounds (estimated) * I dont include the rear brace/mounting system because half of us have some sort of rear brace or some bar so I don't see how it could be held against the setup.
if it were a track car than there would be other ways to shed the weight to make up for the suspension.
in this specific setup the benefits of the altered suspension geometry outweigh the added 10 pounds.
he may want to fit some super hot wheels, or likes the benefit of a cantilever, who knows.
but it still remains the same mabye not for this specific app. but cantilever had been proven. it may not be for the street but on the track it performs.
I'm going to e-mail them though and see if i can get a dyno on the coils
Have you guys even looked at your rear suspension? The average coilover is almost completely contained inboard of the rear wheel well.
I guarantee you that bent bar is way heavier than the average eBay strut bar that most S-chassis guys run to handle all the suspension loads.
You guys are ridiculous. You don't even have the faintest idea of why you'd really want a setup like this, and what would make it actually good. You just see something "neat" and get all butthurt when anybody logically critiques it. :ghey:
And do you even know what you'd be looking at on a damper dyno?
Z28ricer
11-07-2009, 04:18 PM
You can fit 275/40-17s on an S13 if you get a +35 or +40 wheel and roll the fender lips. That tire size totally sucks though, feels like driving on marshmellows. Give me a 255/40-17 over that anyday.
I'm not going to be willing to do a pull, i'll be cutting away as much of the lip as possible reasonably, and definetly would gain clearance using this suspension setup for additional offset/backspacing, as far as the tire size sucking, this will be for weekend use at the drag strip, and the availability of nice drag radials in 255 17" doesnt really exist, not to mention i'll be able to make use of a 275 :eek3d:
ThatGuy
11-07-2009, 04:20 PM
He said roll, not pull.
ericcastro
11-07-2009, 04:48 PM
I'm not going to be willing to do a pull, i'll be cutting away as much of the lip as possible reasonably, and definetly would gain clearance using this suspension setup for additional offset/backspacing, as far as the tire size sucking, this will be for weekend use at the drag strip, and the availability of nice drag radials in 255 17" doesnt really exist, not to mention i'll be able to make use of a 275 :eek3d:
He said roll, not pull.
dont cut your lip.
thats gonna lead to headache and weaker metal along the edge there.
do like they said and roll it.
totally different than a pull, but both useing similar techniques so the confusion is understandable.
Otto347
11-07-2009, 06:29 PM
having a cantilever setup frees up a lot of room from what I understand
For what? You dont need it on an S13. I though of doing this same basic style setup on my S13 but then realized there is no need for it at all. Not to mention they could have used a real set of coilovers rather than some motorcycle shocks.
edit: Just noticed also those pivot deals on the stock shock mount side look awful close to the blue contraption. If the car is sitting at ride height with the suspension loaded then one dip or bump and when the suspension rebounds................no good will happen.
I'm not going to be willing to do a pull, i'll be cutting away as much of the lip as possible reasonably, and definetly would gain clearance using this suspension setup for additional offset/backspacing, as far as the tire size sucking, this will be for weekend use at the drag strip, and the availability of nice drag radials in 255 17" doesnt really exist, not to mention i'll be able to make use of a 275 :eek3d:
The gearing sucks with 275's and a KA/SR unless you've got a 4.36 diff(or shorter). Been there, done that.
Oh well, glad to see at least a few people realizing this is a pretty ridiculous "mod" that doesn't look like it has much thought or engineering put into the finer points.
Shvltme93Notch
11-07-2009, 10:57 PM
kinda cool. i dunno exactly how it would work but i would be down to bolt it up for shits if i wasnt a coupe.
Nismoknightska-t
11-08-2009, 07:19 AM
The gearing sucks with 275's and a KA/SR unless you've got a 4.36 diff(or shorter). Been there, done that.
this makes no sense!!!! how wide a tire is, has no effect on gearing!
ThatGuy
11-08-2009, 07:26 AM
I believe he's referring to to the torque required to move such a large contact patch. Which a different gearing might be better suited to, given the minimal torque provided by an average KA engine.
orion::S14
11-08-2009, 08:37 AM
this makes no sense!!!! how wide a tire is, has no effect on gearing!
I believe DEF is referring to your typical 275/40-17...like someone has already mentioned, above.
And a 275/40-17 is a LARGE diameter tire, screwing up the gearing.
(And before someone points out that is "could be" a 275/35-16...275/40-17 is BY FAR the most common 275-width tire out there...so it follows that he was referring to a 275/40-17, especially on an S-chassis car).
- Brian
this makes no sense!!!! how wide a tire is, has no effect on gearing!
orion got it right. I was obviously still talking about the 275/40-17's that were the subject of the conversation at that point. It's a TALL tire, which reduces your drivewheel torque and lengthens your effective gearing.
ka-titties
11-08-2009, 11:49 AM
however as to the comments that this suspension setup is usless.... read a damn book, hell look at the guys in the little known race series F1. this suspension design has proven itself time and time again. and the physics behind it I don't know ( haven't found the info yet).
Stop shooting down shit you don't understand.
i'm sorry if i seem retarded here, but i completely fail to see where an s13 is even remotely close to an F1 car...
Z28ricer
11-09-2009, 05:37 PM
The gearing sucks with 275's and a KA/SR unless you've got a 4.36 diff(or shorter). Been there, done that.
Oh well, glad to see at least a few people realizing this is a pretty ridiculous "mod" that doesn't look like it has much thought or engineering put into the finer points.
Thats ok i dont have a KA nor an SR, and i've got a 3.54 diff.
Otto347
11-10-2009, 05:33 AM
Thats ok i dont have a KA nor an SR, and i've got a 3.54 diff.
LSpowa :w00t:
s14unimog
11-10-2009, 07:04 AM
hey, i'm just glad to see that people are still developing new products for s-chassis.
even if this version isn't practical, maybe v2 or v3 will be an improvement....
I'm with you on this one. I have an S14 and never plan to own a hatch but it is sort of exciting to see new inventive products out there. If anyone has the means to test this equipment, please lend your experiences.
BTW, I wonder what it would do for wheel clearance? Of course there must be some sort of linkage to the spindle...
Z28ricer
11-10-2009, 12:34 PM
LSpowa :w00t:
:naughty:
6.0LQ9 longblock
GTO MN12 T56 (2.97, 2.07, 1.43, 1.0, .84, .57) vs the f bodys (2.66, 1.78,1.30, 1.0, .74, .50)
LS7 clutch
LS6 intake manifold
Its getting there, not done yet, just figured this track cat thing would perform similarly to a quality set of coilovers and give me some extra rear tire room, but then I saw it wont clear the little privacy cover
:naw:
I like how keeping the privacy cover is the most important thing... hah
If you really want a wide tire, get one that wasn't designed for sports cars back in the mid 80's. Go with at least a 285/30-18 if not wider.
Z28ricer
11-11-2009, 12:38 PM
I like how keeping the privacy cover is the most important thing... hah
If you really want a wide tire, get one that wasn't designed for sports cars back in the mid 80's. Go with at least a 285/30-18 if not wider.
18's usually look a bit silly on an S13,not to mention an 18" drag radial usually runs about $100 a tire more than comparable 17" size, and im quite sure the ones I want to run arent even available in 18" but dont feel like double checking right now.
Yes keeping the privacy cover is an important issue for me, hides the stereo, reducing the likelyhood of problems, also hides the nitrous bottle and shields it from the sun.
s13 @ fullboost
11-11-2009, 01:00 PM
I do not understand it fully but it does look like a cool set-up that being said I would like to see more of it and learn more about the system the website is very brief
dynamicck
11-11-2009, 02:59 PM
The idea is great. the design is can be improved.
Why isn't the bar straight vs being bent? (the bar/brace that connects both shock towers.)
When the Bar is bent, all the force is being pushed downward on that bar. That single bar is holding the entire weight of the rear? Does it flex under extreme load?
If the bar was straight the lateral movements would probably not require extra bracing/reinforcement.
stinky_180
11-11-2009, 03:20 PM
that setup almost looks like my mountain bike full suspension set up (maestro suspension technology) but the pivot looks like its going to destroy the upper shock mount under rebound. very interesting, never seen this on an s13 before.
let5l1de
11-11-2009, 05:11 PM
I used the cantilevered coilover setup on the rear of my Class 8 F-150 my cousin and I used to run in the MDR circuit. It's a good setup but must be well designed from geometry, springs rates, travel/stroke, compression, rebound and preload among other things, for each and every application.
~mario
s14unimog
11-12-2009, 01:00 PM
^ pics or it didn't happen!
simmode1
11-12-2009, 01:42 PM
LOL... we talked the Track Cat suspension system to death about a year ago on NICO... While it is interesting, it's benefits don't seem to greatly outweigh the uses of a decent coilover like most of us are used to.
Plus, when you tally up the price for a Track Cat system, you could buy a high dollar coilover system for around the same amount. I mean, it's like $900 just for the rear setup. You still have to spend more money on your front coilovers and dampers to use on the rears. You're gonna be spending almost $2000 or so...
Not saying it's a bad idea, but it's overkill for most of us, IMO.
I'm sure the intellectual giants on NICO came up with all sorts of insightful technical analysis too...
S14DB
11-12-2009, 01:51 PM
So, wait. It's $900 without the motorcycle shocks?
simmode1
11-12-2009, 02:15 PM
I'm sure the intellectual giants on NICO came up with all sorts of insightful technical analysis too...
Yeah... the analysis is about the same as you're seeing in this thread. Except that it was a year ago.
So, wait. It's $900 without the motorcycle shocks?
It seems that way, but it's hard to tell since the seller never responded to any of our inquiries...
ruleofthez
11-12-2009, 02:35 PM
Did anyone check out the other stuff on their site though? They have some pretty good looking headers on there and some others parts although not many.
s30datsunl24
12-24-2009, 02:43 PM
It does make adjusting your suspension a breeze though...as long as you can figure out what you're doing
BoostSlideWayz
12-31-2010, 05:58 PM
I wanna get this it just seems like an awesome idea. I love how its bolt on from what it looks .... and imo there is no down side to this on any type of driving..
I wanna get this it just seems like an awesome idea. I love how its bolt on from what it looks .... and imo there is no down side to this on any type of driving..
You do that buddy. Sounds like you've got it all science'd...
NO DOWN SIDES...
EXCEPT BEING STUPID AND POORLY DESIGNED. :tardrim:
BTW - nice way to bump a dead thread.
steve shadows
01-01-2011, 10:01 PM
Been discussed a bit on Nissan Road Racing - my vote is stupid "race car" bling. The benefits are ridiculous, and the chance of those dampers being properly valved for the motion ratios and spring rates involved is pretty low.
Honestly I would have to agree....
Probably lose more in the added weight haha
Datenshi
01-02-2011, 12:02 AM
You guys are crazy. Look at the pictures again and realize what kind of car this is in.
It's the furthest from a "Race Car" I've ever seen. Completely stock interior ( Why is the interior in there in the first place?), stock seats.. full sound system all panels and carpet.
While it would have function for a F1 car I would assume (Not knowing much about this at all) I hardly think this guy is the fucking track warrior of the year.
If I installed a 3" HKS Hi-Powered Exhaust, 305 width tires, massive rims, a couple defi gauges and a body kit SLAMMED on some cut springs a huge carbon fibre GT wing and canards with a stock car.. sure.. I look like a pro-star, doesn't mean the car does shit. Oh, and don't forget the stickers hahahaha
RICER!
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