Brake setups and impressions:

[AceInHole]

Since there are an assortment of brake setups out there, I thought it might be good if we all shared our different setups: i.e. aluminum 26mm, iron 30mm, Q45's, and whatever MC you might have.

Right now I'm using:
Calipers: 95 Q45's front and back
Rotors: Stock Q45
Pads: Stock Q45
Master Cylinder: 17/16" off a '91 z32

Impressions: Wow... they fill up my 17" wheels pretty nicely. A big difference from the stock 10" rotors (new rotors are 11" front 11.4" rear). I haven't had a chance to really get on them from high speeds yet, but hopefully later tonight I'll be able to report back. Brakes are fully locked by the time the brake pedal is even with the gas pedal. I should have probably gone with the 1" MC, but I'm going to be upgrading to z32 aluminum 30mm fronts and z32 rears. Should be loads of fun.

Best thing about the Q45 brake calipers is that your wheel selection isn't limited like the z32 setup. You can also quite possibly upgrade to z32 30mm front calipers without having to change rotors (still need to check up on that).

Worst thiing about the Q45 brake calipers is that your brake pad selection is very limited. I've heard you can get metal mashers custom made as long as you send in a backing plate, so I might look into that (i doubt i'll have the Q45's long enough to do so though). You can already get performance rotors, though. I'm going to be looking into the rotor offset compared to z32 30mm rotors, as I might use the rotors I have with the z32 calipers (just the fronts, the rears on the z32 are vented while the Q45's are not).

[DuffMan]

This post is missing something, hmm what could it be, oh yeah, PICS!

Hehe, nice review though.

[Dousan_PG]

here's a great thread on z32 brakesetups, mine's in there as well, iirc

z32 brakes (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21633&highlight=brake+setup)

[AceInHole]

ahh, forgot about the z32 thread.... it didn't include Q45 calipers so... this thread serves SOME purpose :p

anyways... pics will be put up when I get off of work, although, I do have 1 pic of the fronts:
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~corrales/240/brakeswap/q45.JPG
I need a 13" rotor now.....

[mrmephistopheles]

I wonder if one could get away with using that setup in 'Stock' auto-xing. Yeah, it'd pretty much be cheating, but it'd take someone who knows their stuff to fnid out.

As far as my setup is concerned, I have 300zx 300 Aluminums in front with mystery pads and mystery x-drilled rotors (and clearcorners.com stainless brake lines) MC is stock.
I lock up my front wheels WAAAAY too easily, which is due to having narrow wheels and doo-doo tires.
I also have stock brakes in the rear with stainless lines. Adding stainless lines in the rear helped change the brake feel for the better. That, and changing the fluid!
I'll one day get some Axxis pads and once these rotors die, some slotted Brembos, and on that day I'll add a SHIM KIT so the damn things don't have such a tendency to squeal.

-Kevin

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
I wonder if one could get away with using that setup in 'Stock' auto-xing. Yeah, it'd pretty much be cheating, but it'd take someone who knows their stuff to fnid out.

lol... that's a good idea.... too bad i didn't hide my turbo with a heat sheild or something :p They definitely look a lot better than the stock brakes did though. The rears even more so.

As far as my setup is concerned, I have 300zx 300 Aluminums in front with mystery pads and mystery x-drilled rotors (and clearcorners.com stainless brake lines) MC is stock.
I lock up my front wheels WAAAAY too easily, which is due to having narrow wheels and doo-doo tires.
Hmm... how does the pedal feel though??? When I first had the Q's on the pedal was noticeably mushier. It might've needed a better bleeding though....

I also have stock brakes in the rear with stainless lines. Adding stainless lines in the rear helped change the brake feel for the better. That, and changing the fluid!
I'll one day get some Axxis pads and once these rotors die, some slotted Brembos, and on that day I'll add a SHIM KIT so the damn things don't have such a tendency to squeal.
Stainless lines sound like a good idea. My prob is, I could get the stainless lines for the stock calipers and use them with the Q's, or I could wait untill I upgrade again to Z brakes.

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by AceInHole
Hmm... how does the pedal feel though??? When I first had the Q's on the pedal was noticeably mushier. It might've needed a better bleeding though....

Of course, your mileage may vary, but for me, the pedal travels down farther before engaging, but the increase in feel and controllability make up for it. It doesn't give me ANY problem at all, and I don't have any 'mush' feeling to it.

Stainless lines sound like a good idea. My prob is, I could get the stainless lines for the stock calipers and use them with the Q's, or I could wait untill I upgrade again to Z brakes. [/B]

Yeah, that's true. However, if you fond an Earl's dealer in your area and got a pre-cut line that you screw fittings onto, and just change the fittings when necessary, you'd be set.

[240racer]

I'm wondering if you guys think there might be a weight advantage to be gained from the 26mm rotors instead of the 30mm ones. I plan on road racing, but also doing occasional auto-x and drag racing. Of course it is a daily driver too. I wonder if some of you guys would have an oppurtunity to weigh your rotors so we could see the difference between 26 and 30s. Of course the 30mm rotors have more heat and braking capacity, but it might be overkill on all but really fast circuits.

[AceInHole]

when i found out the offset on the z32 rotors i'll be able to see if you can use Q45 28mm rotors with 30mm calipers :D

might make a nice split between 30mm and 26mm.... who knows.

[Maeda]

Z32 Iron 4-pot Calipers
Oem Z32 Pads
SS lines
Brembo X-drilled and slotted
dot 4 fluid
no master cylinder

i have a really firm brake pedal and engagement is really really smooth...it took about 3 days to get used to without locking the wheels up too quickly... (should i want more pedal travel?)

i feel like i can stop on a dime from 60 =D
I think the brakes up front are overkill... i dont think its worth changing the back...

i dont know why others have had problems with mushy pedals... bad bleeding? mine's solid.. literally...

[Foxcolt]

Hey Ace, can I see your rears (pic?) an can you explain the differnces between those and stock, size,position of ebrake etc..

Having 300z's up front and Q45's in the rear might be an easier alternative to swapping out the drum brake assembly to get 300z one's in the rear.


My setup:

300zx 26mm fronts, stock pads, brembo blanks, stock lines w/ washers (yes I know, i have ss lines sitting on my microwave)

Rear stock, w/ brembo blanks.

MC: stock

Setup feels pretty good, pedal is mushier than stock but still rather firm. When I had 6.5 wide wheels the fronts did lock up rather easily but now I have 8.5 wide wheels in the front and it's conderibly harder to get the fronts to lock up.

Edit: Damn, Thanks Dennis

[d240t2]

Q45s have the same rear ebrake drum assembly that is found on the Z32s...so no dice.

Dennis

[sykikchimp]

The e-brale drum is a GOOD thing though. Especially if you track the car at all. you can't screw up rotors by clamping down your rear pads after a hot lapping session, and you don't need to bring wheel chocks to the track with you.

[AceInHole]

Q45 rears:
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~corrales/240/brakeswap/Q45_rear.JPG

I'm now facing the decision whether to downgrade to a 1" MC and keep the Q brakes, or upgrade to z32 front calipers if the rotors turn out to be the correct offset. From what I know, the Q45 and z32 rotors are the same diameter (11" i think), and the 28mm Q45 rotors should work with 30mm z32 calipers, as long as the rotor offsets are the same (I've said that like a billion times in this thread already). So, I'll see what happens on friday when i get back to the parts guy.

[mrmephistopheles]

and the 28mm Q45 rotors should work with 30mm z32 calipers

I think that may lead to a lower pedal engagement point, and possible improper wear of the pad. But i could be wrong. *shrug*

[adey]

wow, are those twin piston fronts?? Nice. :)
I'd say keep the Q45 brakes (you really don't need a 4 pot caliper... heck, my single piston 180sx brakes do FINE for my brake-intensive hard driving) and "downgrade" to the 1" MC...

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
I think that may lead to a lower pedal engagement point, and possible improper wear of the pad. But i could be wrong. *shrug*
once fluid is pumped into the calipers, the engagement point will "reset". It'd be like having 1mm of brake pad worn out on each side. Your brake pedal engagement doesn't (shouldn't) go down as your pads wear.


wow, are those twin piston fronts?? Nice.
I'd say keep the Q45 brakes (you really don't need a 4 pot caliper... heck, my single piston 180sx brakes do FINE for my brake-intensive hard driving) and "downgrade" to the 1" MC...
Yeah... they're 2 piston. I believe they're twin 44mm pistons, as compared to the 4 40mm pistons on the Z brakes. The big difference I think is in the rotors. 11" in front compared to the 9.8" stockers, and 11.4" in the back compared to the 10.2" stockers.

I just did some HARD stopping tonight and the Q brakes surprised the hell out of me!! I ended up shorting corners by more than a carlength. It's amazing how much faster I can dive into corners with these brakes!!! I did a couple 90mph stops to get them as hot as I could, and did maybe 10 or so 60 - 80mph hard stops coming into some turns on my way home tonight. Each time I was like "wow." I checked my rotors when I got back and it seems as though the pads aren't completely set in yet either. Seems like these brakes may be a keeper.... although, I might be able to get z32 brakes without having to spend too much more.

About the 17/16" MC.... I got used to the brake pedal feel. When the brakes are hot it ends up feeling pretty good. The hotter the brakes get it seems the more modulation I have with the pedal when closer to full braking. I think I'm gonna stick with it for now. I can always swap later pretty easily. There's an AutoX I don't really care too much about as far as placement and points go, so I'm gonna use it as a setup day for my car for the NER season, which starts the weekend after. If I need to change MC's I'll know on sunday.

[adey]

About the 17/16" MC.... Is it 17/16" (1 1/16") or 15/16"?

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by adey
Is it 17/16" (1 1/16") or 15/16"?

I have a 17/16" right now. I'll probably be switching to a 1" tomorrow.

[adey]

.... so you're DOWNgrading...! Sorry I must have totally misread the previous posts... a smaller MC would increase Mushiness, afaik. That's what most people increase MC bore size for; increased pedal responsiveness/feel...

[ZodiacSR]

Ace,

Did you have to drill the rear into 4 lugs? And also is the e-brake in the hat of the rotor or on the rear caliper itself?

This info would be great if you get a chance to reply.

Thanks

zODIAC

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by ZodiacSR
Ace,

Did you have to drill the rear into 4 lugs? And also is the e-brake in the hat of the rotor or on the rear caliper itself?

This info would be great if you get a chance to reply.

Thanks

zODIAC
Yes, I had to drill all 4 rotors to 4 lug. You don't NEED to be accurate (it helps though) since they're hubcentric. I drilled to as close as I could get it, then dremeled it out to make up for inaccuracies untill it fit the stud and was perfectly centered on the hub (otherwise they wouldn't bolt in flat).

Yes, the e-brake assembly is a drum style brake in the hat of the rotor. I'll be installing those next week when I help my friend swap from S13 e-brake lines to S14 e-brake lines, as they're apparently different between the S13 and S14 (and he swapped his seized calipers to my old ones on his S13).

.... so you're DOWNgrading...! Sorry I must have totally misread the previous posts... a smaller MC would increase Mushiness, afaik. That's what most people increase MC bore size for; increased pedal responsiveness/feel...
Yes, it increases mushiness, but it also requires less pedal force (and more travel) to get the same amount of pressure in the brake caliper. So, right now it feels like I hit a wall before they lock up, and it requires quite a bit of pressure at that point. I'm still getting used to the pedal feel. I might keep the larger MC, but it might be worth giving the 1" MC a shot. I need to buy it anyways for a friend, so I might be able to give him the huge one and keep the 1" for myself instead of giving him the 1" as planned.

[240 2NR]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
The e-brake drum is a GOOD thing though. Especially if you track the car at all. you can't screw up rotors by clamping down your rear pads after a hot lapping session, and you don't need to bring wheel chocks to the track with you.

Well unless you like to let your engine idle while it's sitting in the pits (usually not allowed) all you need to do is park your car with it in gear (or Park if you're unlucky enough to drive a slushbox) and you run no greater risk of rotor warpage than with the drum setup.

I think the disadvantage to the aluminum calipers is that they dissipate (sp?) heat so much quicker than the iron ones that its that fact that they are not spinning and cooling evenly that warps them. Anyone else hear that theory?

[240 2NR]

Originally posted by AceInHole
Yes, I had to drill all 4 rotors to 4 lug. You don't NEED to be accurate (it helps though) since they're hubcentric. I drilled to as close as I could get it, then dremeled it out to make up for inaccuracies untill it fit the stud and was perfectly centered on the hub (otherwise they wouldn't bolt in flat).


Just keep an eye out for cracks.

[dannyca13]

90 240sx
Z32 26mm front calipers
Brembo X-drilled and slotted front rotors(drilled to 4lug)
SS lines in the front
1-1/16 in MC
stock rear setup (preparing to do z32 swap)

This setup is great so far but I'm trying to swap the Z32's onto the rear. Has anyone successfully maintained a 4 lug setup with working E-brake? I'm gonna try to press the 4 lug hub into the 5 lug hub assembly. Does anyone know if its possible. possible? I would switch to 5 lug all around but new wheels and tires aren't cheap. Oh and for anyone who hasn't tried it the z32 master cylinder makes all the difference. gets rid of the slutty pedal feel.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by dannyca13
This setup is great so far but I'm trying to swap the Z32's onto the rear. Has anyone successfully maintained a 4 lug setup with working E-brake? I'm gonna try to press the 4 lug hub into the 5 lug hub assembly. Does anyone know if its possible. possible?

Next week I should be doing the e-brakes onto my 4 lug setup. You just need a few washers and it should work fine with the 4 lug hubs. I'm not planning on pressing new hubs or anything drastic like that.

As usual, it'll be documented and posted when it happens.

[dannyca13]

I just looked at it and the washers idea makes alot more sense than what i was gonna try. Now I'm just waiting on my other 300zx upright assembly to arrive. If you use the aluminum upright is a 300zx strut a direct swap in? and does that mess up the suspension setup since the 300zx is at least 500lbs heavier?

thanx again for the washer idea.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by dannyca13
I just looked at it and the washers idea makes alot more sense than what i was gonna try. Now I'm just waiting on my other 300zx upright assembly to arrive. If you use the aluminum upright is a 300zx strut a direct swap in? and does that mess up the suspension setup since the 300zx is at least 500lbs heavier?

thanx again for the washer idea.

the 300zx aluminum uprights are lighter than the stock ones. they also have a conical spacer for the lower balljoint IIRC, that will be needed to swap onto the 240. Also, the rear shock mount is different. You'll need 300zx shocks to install the uprights onto an S13. If you have an S14 you're most likely SOL, unless you have height adjustable coilovers and the ability to get replacement lower mounts.