Enthralpy VS MAP ECU by MVP Motorsports

[Chops@MVP]

Well over Christmas we decided to give 1 MAP ECU away so that a customer could share his feedback with the community instead of MVP 240's being the only ones running this piggy back. We finally began work on it today but he had a faulty wastegate actuator causing it to creep up to 20psi so we only got the baseline with the Enthralpy. We have already installed the MAP ECU and is running but it will be tuned on Tuesday when my tuner is back out this way and we have an HKS actuator installed. On to the pics

S14 SR20DET Zenki
GT2871R .64 a/r
650CC injectors
Walbro 255
Full 3 inch turbo back exhaust
FMIC

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/r0b3rt/IMG_0792.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/r0b3rt/IMG_0794.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/r0b3rt/IMG_0798.jpg

The following dyno sheet is of the car on wastegate pressure with Enthralpy. As you can see the afr's never dip below 12.4 and peaked at 12.9 under WOT. We tune all our boosted cars to roughly 11.5-11.8 as it generally produces a far more reliable vehicle that can be enjoyed for years to come. The weak numbers are due to the faulty wastegate steadily creeping till redline.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/r0b3rt/dynorun.jpg
Also in case anybody is curious why it says Racing Solutions instead of MVP Motorsports, it's another company we own in the same building that does TT Vipers.

Video coming as soon as I get it uploaded and expect MAP ECU figures next week.

Regards,
Robert

[waynehead05]

oh man I'm subscribing to this, since I snagged a map ecu2 for my sr setup.

[steve shadows]

First of all it's ENTHALPY not ENTHRALPY - Enthalpy is a work for Energy in Physics for disorganized energy (random) this is Enthalpy - as in Scott Avoy the Mech, Engr who named himself that as a inside joke to the tuning community...

PS. Piggy backs are CRAP, TOTAL CRAP - UTTER FREAKING CRAP - THEY ARE GARBAGE -

If you have to have one then ok...but if you are about to buy something new!!! DO NOT GET ANY PIGGY BACK

This is basically an overprized E Manage right? - I don't get it...you can have a MOTEC hardware based unit (Haltech E8 or E11) that is plug and play, good to 32 - 60 PSI depending on map you pick and can control ANYTHING you want to do + has anti-lag (which is different than 2 step staging) which is more useful for road racing / drifting etc. Piggy backs are intercepting a direct signal controlling your car's ignition hardware and CHANGING the RESISTANCE or modifying voltage from what the ECU really thinks is happening. NO!!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG

I am really confused on your post too?

This is another thing that really erks me about other tuning shops and this whole obsession with PEAK HP NUMBER

1. They turn on Dyno Smoothing on the Graph to it's highest point so it looks like the car was perfectly tuned in steady state (there isnt even an option for this on a Brake eddy dyno). It should be set to 0, so all imperfections in the inertia dyno plot can be seen

2. They cut the graph off or start it at 3.5 -4K rpms (Which is HALF WAY THROUGH THE WHOLE POWER BAND ALREADY!!!) - This makes it look like the power curve is a perfect straight accerating line with no dead zone or valley where there is NO low end torque

3. They leave the low end and torque curve out of the picture completely (The torque curve is the important one when tuning with a dyno jet because it is what you watch to look for dips and wavey lines in order to see if the map is properly built for the car and if the timing map is actually safe or approaching the point of detonation).

Just some things that have been peeving me lately

not pointing fingers but I had to get that off my chest.

[Chops@MVP]

The reason for the misspelling was due to the fact I didn't look to much into it. I feel ROM tuning is a complete joke so seen it as a waste of my time.

The MAP ECU is not an overpriced E Manage. They retail for $379 and is just the Emanage. Once you factor in all the harnesses, sensors ect it is far more expensive than the MAP ECU which includes everything you need for $425

Also since I am fully aware of how much of a respected tuner you are I went out to our dyno and pulled the same run from our file, uncorrected, smoothing set at 0. Please note that we have yet to tune the MAP ECU as he had a faulty actuator, this run is strictly Enthalpy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/r0b3rt/dynorun-2.jpg

Edit:
Steve, forgot you asked about seeing the torque curve so went and got a copy of that as well from the same run
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/r0b3rt/dynorun-3.jpg

We are completely aware that the MAP ECU does not compare to standalones such as the AEM or Power FC. This is from what we have seen the best option for the budget oriented car enthusiest who cannot spend 1k+ on a standalone.

Regards,
Robert

[DrIvEsldEwAyS]

alot of supra guys around my area run the map ecu, not a single one has had a good tune on it, everytime there is a problem related to the map ecu. just my imput.

[Chops@MVP]

alot of supra guys around my area run the map ecu, not a single one has had a good tune on it, everytime there is a problem related to the map ecu. just my imput.


We have been tuning Supras with MAP ECU since early 2002 and have yet to produce one with any problems.

I will say this unit will NOT work on MK3 and MKIV NA Supras. Both vehicles computers after about a week will alter the map. Other than those 2 cars we have seen no problems with any other makes.

If the guys you know are running this unit in a TT Supra and are having issues it's an issue with the tune itself or something was not installed correctly.

Regards,
Robert

[smelly240]

Used it on my old car - old map-ecu not 2, it was ok for what it was. Your results so far arent interesting -

i'll continue to watch even tho i am also anti piggy.

btw - the auto setup type stuff where u drive with the maf hooked up works like poopsauce.

[Chops@MVP]

Used it on my old car - old map-ecu not 2, it was ok for what it was. Your results so far arent interesting -

i'll continue to watch even tho i am also anti piggy.

btw - the auto setup type stuff where u drive with the maf hooked up works like poopsauce.

This is the old MAP ECU, not 2.

Self learn mode does suck, I completely agree. The only car I have seen that work successfully took him 8 months of driving for it to setup even halfway decent. Why you ran it that way is beyond me though....

Regards,
Robert

[shmiddy]

interesting read.............

[4x4le]

PS. Piggy backs are CRAP, TOTAL CRAP - UTTER FREAKING CRAP - THEY ARE GARBAGE -


+1
and the rest of what he said. Didnt want a uber long quote.

Funny how they are playing up a piggy back and then say
VVVVVVVVV

I feel ROM tuning is a complete joke



Just wow @ that comment. The factory ecu is probably a better piece of equipment in most cars than any piggy back could ever be, and is probably on par with most standalones as far as quality of the parts inside and the finsihed product. Where standalones prevaile over the stock ecu is their ability to be more flexible by being able to calabrate any sensors you want in it. Maf, map, no problem. Datalog with no auxlary data acusation ect.

You cant just throw Enthalpy out there and be like, see rom tuning is bad. Is that all you have seen as far as rom tuning goes? Bench tunes? Im sure the cars that Enthalpy and jim wolf actually tune in order to get the tune that they burn on the boards they sell to their customers are some well tuned cars, but that dont always equate to as good of running of a car when its applied to a completly different car, especially when they tune in the safty factor.
On top of that I have looked at several bin files of peoples so called "tunes" that either they made, or paid someone to dyno tune their car. Allot of them are completly factory aside from the k value is adjusted for the maf and injectors and the fuel map is played with. That isnt even tuning! Some of the others I have seen are nothing but guess work filled with hopes and dreams, created and posted in a thread titled "hey guys, I downloaded tuning software and im making a tune, does it look good?"......
Just because there are so many people that go about rom tuning in stupid ways does not make rom tuning an invalid way of tuning, and surely does not make piggy backs a better means of tuning. If someone was going to take the dumb way out of rom tuning, what do you think they are going to do with this piggy back? Tune it like a pro?


We are completely aware that the MAP ECU does not compare to standalones such as the AEM or Power FC.



Wow, well that sets the bar really high.:zzz:

[Chops@MVP]

Well vehicle has a ridiculous boost creep issue(spiked to 20 psi) and even after we pulled the Garrett actuator off and swapped in a HKS unit still had same issue. So until he gets a new turbo on there we can't really do anything. :(

Regards,
Robert

[waynehead05]

Any update?

[veilside180sx]

No offense, but this is laughable.

Your taking the stand that your $425 piggyback is better than a $500 rom tune ecu. The ecu more than likely is tuned better, than a schmoe at a random tuner shop will perform. Make sure you factor in the cost of the tune at the shop in your cost comparison, since not everyone lives close to your shop to pull off freebies although you likely don't give that away either with a purchase.

[Chops@MVP]

Customer was having extreme boost spike issues so he is currently getting that sorted out. The .64 a/r was purchased used so he purchased a new 2871R .86 A/R.

Regards,
Robert

[steve shadows]

sometimes I read what I wrote a couple weeks later and I think to myself...

"man what a cock you are"

but I still think "A cock who is 100% right"

anyways...yeah sorry for always sounding like a huge cock but I'm 99% right

[waynehead05]

^ I just really want to hear how this works out, cause I bought a map ecu II a little while ago, but haven't used it yet.

[waynehead05]

Any update?

[handinpants]

try nistune

[fliprayzin240sx]

Funny, boost spiking on a GT2871R...and they think an actuator or a bigger A/R will fix it. Should have ported the damn wastegate flapper opening, that fixes 90% of boost creep that GT2871Rs or any internally wastegated turbo may have.

[mattsil80wis]

The only thing that solves boost creep is getting an external gate provision welded onto the manifold.

Enthalpy performs the service, or any competent welder in your area can do the same.

I had creep issues, and decided to contact others with 2871r's....I got this suggestion after emailing member 'codyace' about his tials and tribulations with the 2871r and the .64 housing. To quote (misquote) him, he essentially said he tried all of the internal actuators out there (i know he had the forge and HKS units) and the only thing that was worth the mod was going to a Tial 38.

I had the same service performed locally, and it hasn't given me any issues since.

I speak to him through email form time to time, and his car seems to still kick ass...and he still has the 38 IIRC.