Turn signal rewire

[g6civcx]

Can we start discussing in this thread? The other thread kept crashing my computer.

Maybe the anti-spam was going crazy or something.

[g6civcx]

zenkis have 9003/HB2 dual filament low beam.

What you could do is have the light switch turn on the low beam, and stay on until the key is removed. This will take care of any flicker issue because the light stays on until the key is removed.

You'll need more than 3 relays, but it's doable.

[DaPCWiz]

Wow. That other thread just crashed my computer too.... like three times. wtf is going on. that's unreal.

Anyway... how in the world do you make a relay stay on if you remove the signal 86-85 signal?

[Om1kron]

change your viewing options for pictures on zilvia... I see half of the pictures in that thread require that java software to open it in an animated window... that will cause your machine to crash if you lack java updates.

[DaPCWiz]

haha, actually my pc was having a different issue, not related to the thread... it just happened to be the first page I loaded after every reboot. Issue is fixed now.

[g6civcx]

change your viewing options for pictures on zilvia... I see half of the pictures in that thread require that java software to open it in an animated window... that will cause your machine to crash if you lack java updates.

Thanks for the tip.

Anyway... how in the world do you make a relay stay on if you remove the signal 86-85 signal?

Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT), Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) Automotive Relays (http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp)

Read this page and also the links at the bottom. Gives you some interesting ways to build a circuit with relays.

[g6civcx]

In particular, you can use the switch to give you ground whenever you turn the light switch to 2. Then the light will be on no matter what happens to the light switch = no flicker.

If you put switched current to the fused 12v(+) input, you can turn off the low beam by turning off the ignition.

You can also do things like use the door switch to turn off the lights, use the horn to turn off the lights, use another switch, etc. The possibilities are endless.

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/momentconstant.gif

[finesses240]

In particular, you can use the switch to give you ground whenever you turn the light switch to 2. Then the light will be on no matter what happens to the light switch = no flicker.

If you put switched current to the fused 12v(+) input, you can turn off the low beam by turning off the ignition.

You can also do things like use the door switch to turn off the lights, use the horn to turn off the lights, use another switch, etc. The possibilities are endless.

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/momentconstant.gif

you can use the key sense wire to trigger the relay, that way when you put in the key the lights turn on or when you take out the key they turn off. Not sure if that is actually what you are looking for but figure I would throw in my 2 cents. The key sense would trigger the negative side.

[g6civcx]

you can use the key sense wire to trigger the relay, that way when you put in the key the lights turn on or when you take out the key they turn off. Not sure if that is actually what you are looking for but figure I would throw in my 2 cents. The key sense would trigger the negative side.

I don't recommend doing this because it will make the battery current weaker for cold starting.

[DaPCWiz]

In particular, you can use the switch to give you ground whenever you turn the light switch to 2. Then the light will be on no matter what happens to the light switch = no flicker.

If you put switched current to the fused 12v(+) input, you can turn off the low beam by turning off the ignition.

You can also do things like use the door switch to turn off the lights, use the horn to turn off the lights, use another switch, etc. The possibilities are endless.

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/momentconstant.gif

excuse my noob-ishness, but I totally don't understand how that works.

you tap the - wire from the stalk switch?

why are there two 12+'s running into each relay? wouldn't that cause a collision?

[g6civcx]

you tap the - wire from the stalk switch?

You can do it a bunch of ways.

The easiest way would just be to take your low beam + wire and run it in place of the 12v red wire. That way, whenever you turn to 2 the left relay will be energised, which will make the right relay fully energized until you cut power to the red wire.

why are there two 12+'s running into each relay? wouldn't that cause a collision?

When you energize the left relay, all red wires are connected to all purple wires. Even if you de-energised the left relay, the right relay will still be fully energised because the red wires are still connected to the purple wires.

The only way to cut power to the purple wire would be to cut power to the red wire.

This is not current collision because the difference between the two purple wires going into the relay is two different wire lengths. There should be none, or a very small, difference in electrical potential between the two wires.

Current collision is when the electrons have two different paths of different electrical potentials back to the power source.

[DaPCWiz]

what's that?

http://www.dapcwiz.com/misc/whatsthat.jpg


oooh i misread it, I thought the purple was power in, not power out. that's why I thought there was a collision... makes more sense now

[DaPCWiz]

But wait, I don't get it. lol sorry I'm so thick headed.

So lets say red is the 2 position. Then when I go from 2>3, the 2 position gets turned off and the system turns off, no? I want it to stay on...

shouldn't the red wire be connected to the battery... and then greenwire somehow switched with position 2?

[g6civcx]

It's a diode. Keeps current from going from 86 to 85 and causing collision.

I don't think it's necessary. I don't know why they put one there.

[g6civcx]

green to low+
85 to ground and not red, don't run the red wire to 85 on the left, put 85 to ground
red to switched current
purple to HID+

The diode is not necessary.

[g6civcx]

Like this. I took out the diode.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7994/lowbeambk4.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lowbeambk4.jpg)

[DaPCWiz]

Tried in my room w/ power supply & led again.

Diagram as is:

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/momentconstant.gif

purple to led+

red to power supply +

when green is touched to power supply -, and then removed... led lights up and stays lit till red is disconnected.


green to low+
85 to ground and not red, don't run the red wire to 85 on the left, put 85 to ground
red to switched current
purple to HID+

The diode is not necessary.

damn you beat me to the post... haha

http://www.dapcwiz.com/misc/constant_v2.jpg

red to 12v+
purple to led+
green to "switched" +.

When I connect green to +, it lights up and stays lit when green is disconnected.

It shuts off when red is disconnected.


Also point to note: led dims when I touch green again. Is this cuz I'm using shitty wiring? 18 awg (maybe thinner?), lol. Or is there another reason for that?

the led dims in either version, yours and the original.

[g6civcx]

It dims because the power source is used to trigger the first relay. So the available voltage drops slightly.

You should really use the purple wire to trigger another relay that pulls power to the HID. The switched power source may not be enough to sustain the current draw.

And make sure you put a fuse on the power source for the HID.

[DaPCWiz]

lol this thread has totally got the gears going in my head...

okay so I have a carpc setup in my car. power supply takes power (+) signal (+) ground (-).

Illuminated entry from my alarm is (-).

power and ground to the carpc must never be interrupted, carpc is kept on via software (and some other logic) as long as there is some sort of current on the signal (+) line. Kinda like an amp.

Here is what I came up with, to make the carpc start when I unlock the car w/ the remote instead of when I start it (give it a little bootup headstart).

http://www.dapcwiz.com/misc/carpcwith-alarm.jpg

is this design better? haha.

[g6civcx]

That won't work. The alarm will cause the pc signal to flicker but not stay on until the ignition is turned on. Try again.

Think about how to use a single pulse to turn on a wire and stay on until the ignition is cut.

[DaPCWiz]

That won't work. The alarm will cause the pc signal to flicker but not stay on until the ignition is turned on. Try again.

Think about how to use a single pulse to turn on a wire and stay on until the ignition is cut.

as soon as the the alarm connects the (-) for the illuminated entry, doesn't that all get energized?

http://www.dapcwiz.com/misc/carpcwith-alarm2.jpg

87A is normally connected when 86-85 is not energized.

when the ignition is turned on, the ground should switch from the ill entry to the other relay.

[g6civcx]

My fault. I jumped the gun.

What does the alarm do to the entry wire? If this wire sees ground until you stick the key in, then it's fine.

I though illuminated entry means flashing the lights.

[Om1kron]

this better get updated with real pictures and a youtube video lol.

[DaPCWiz]

My fault. I jumped the gun.

What does the alarm do to the entry wire? If this wire sees ground until you stick the key in, then it's fine.

I though illuminated entry means flashing the lights.

illuminated entry keeps the dome light on until you stick the key in and start the car, so there should be no interruption. Altho I think it kills the dome light after a minute.... so if I don't start the car for a minute, it will kill the pc.... which I guess isn't terrible either - since I don't want the pc to keep running if I just unlocked the car to get something out of it and had no intention of actually starting it.

this better get updated with real pictures and a youtube video lol.

I aim to have my car back on the road ~ april. I will post details or what worked and how when it is.

I'm also going to use my newfound knowledge of relays to make some tricky kill switches :ddog: sorry those wiring diagrams will not be posted online ;)

[g6civcx]

illuminated entry keeps the dome light on until you stick the key in and start the car, so there should be no interruption. Altho I think it kills the dome light after a minute.... so if I don't start the car for a minute, it will kill the pc.... which I guess isn't terrible either - since I don't want the pc to keep running if I just unlocked the car to get something out of it and had no intention of actually starting it.



I guess it's ok. The only issue I could foresee is if the illuminated entry doesn't handle off to the ignition smoothly = flicker. That will reboot the computer and defeats the purpose.

[DaPCWiz]

I guess it's ok. The only issue I could foresee is if the illuminated entry doesn't handle off to the ignition smoothly = flicker. That will reboot the computer and defeats the purpose.

yeah that's true. I figure that way that works, the ign relay should flip before the other one disconnects since the current hits it first? I hope so anyway... lol. I believe I can setup the psu to have a 5 second delay before shutdown, so that may avoid the flicker issue. I have to look into it more...

[GSXRJJordan]

Subscribed, but I don't know wtf you're talking about.

I assume you're trying to get the HIDs to stay on as soon as you turn the lights on, before you turn the car on?

g6civcx knows what's up, his 2-relay setup (even though it's a starter-interlock relay setup, hence the diode) is straight from the 12v bible.

[DaPCWiz]

Subscribed, but I don't know wtf you're talking about.

I assume you're trying to get the HIDs to stay on as soon as you turn the lights on, before you turn the car on?

g6civcx knows what's up, his 2-relay setup (even though it's a starter-interlock relay setup, hence the diode) is straight from the 12v bible.

original thread started here > http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/237037-turn-signal-rewire.html

we were having issues with it, so g6civc made a new one. We're been thru multiple different wiring things. Turn signal rewire, headlight rewire, and carpc early start up.

[GSXRJJordan]

Cool thread - didn't crash my cpu :)

I also thought to use the "parking lights" wire to trigger all my lights, rather than the actual headlight wire, for the same reason g6 did... it's a bad switch design. I still use the stock high beam stuff though.

I don't know that the key-sense wire works well enough in S14's to have that be your only CarPC turn on pulse, but logically it sounds like the best idea. That'll give you a 4-5sec earlier start than using the Ign/Start signals - I'm sure you figured out that you need multiple sources so that it doesn't turn off when you hit 'start' and still stays on when the car is off but on 'acc'.

I totally agree with G6 that everyone wanting to do "special" stuff with car electronics needs to first understand the basics (current flow, basic components, etc), but it's easier said than done :) SPST relays are the coolest thing ever, and some of them are really small now.

Also, most high-end alarms have extra relays you can use for little stuff like this.

[g6civcx]

I don't know that the key-sense wire works well enough in S14's to have that be your only CarPC turn on pulse, but logically it sounds like the best idea. That'll give you a 4-5sec earlier start than using the Ign/Start signals - I'm sure you figured out that you need multiple sources so that it doesn't turn off when you hit 'start' and still stays on when the car is off but on 'acc'.


You crazy. What he's trying to say is that when you turn the key to ST, the ignition switch kills power to the ACC wire. You'll notice that your radio turns off when you hit the starter.

You should be ok if you tap the ON wire instead of the ACC wire. The ON wire gets power even if you hit start.

The thing I would worry about is interference. Do you want the pc to be on when the starter is turning? Other than amps/subs, the starter probably draws the most current on the car. Will this current draw cause any problem for your pc?

[DaPCWiz]

You crazy. What he's trying to say is that when you turn the key to ST, the ignition switch kills power to the ACC wire. You'll notice that your radio turns off when you hit the starter.

You should be ok if you tap the ON wire instead of the ACC wire. The ON wire gets power even if you hit start.

The thing I would worry about is interference. Do you want the pc to be on when the starter is turning? Other than amps/subs, the starter probably draws the most current on the car. Will this current draw cause any problem for your pc?

Not it shouldn't... there's a 1.2 farad cap I have between the pc and the battery. Also the power supply on the pc is designed to handle the voltage dropping down to 6V during a crank and keeping the pc running. I believe the voltage shouldn't drop below 9-10v normally during the crank or there isn't enough juice in the battery to crank.

I also currently have it turn on/off w/ ignition AND have a manual on/off switch.... and I"ve had it on many times with the vehicle off and cranked no problem. I also have an Optima Yellowtop, so I'm sure that helps....

Given all that I'm sure it'll work. I'm going over all the wiring for this stuff before the car is back on the road, because I need to reorganize everything in my trunk. Carpc is too far back (should be between the suspension, not the back of the trunk) and I keep killing harddrives cuz of my coilovers, lol. Never killed a hdd before I got the coilovers. I'm going to relocated the pc to the hump between the trunk and the back seats... and I"ve gotten a more beefy harddrive that can take high amounts of shock (160G's or something? I forget) and not die.

[g6civcx]

I remember the other thread about the pc. What does the pc currently do?

[DaPCWiz]

I remember the other thread about the pc. What does the pc currently do?

The car's been off the road for a while, but umm...

gps nav
120 gb
music
emulators for snes / sega / gameboy / nes / atari w/ play station type controller
internet over my cell phone
traffic information
weather information
gas station price information
video/movies/etc
i wanna set it up with hd radio soon
hooks up to the obdII port and picks up whatever comes out of there
gonna hook it upto my wideband for data logging

again I'm redoing everything, including the software for the carpc, so it will be adjusted before april.

[g6civcx]

your car is a rolling traffic ticket :)

[DaPCWiz]

your car is a rolling traffic ticket :)

lol its my toy, not my dd so that's okay ;) Altho once I settle on a DD that I actually like, it might get a pc too, lol.

[g6civcx]

Any progress on this or is the whole thing an exercise in futility?

[GSXRJJordan]

You crazy. What he's trying to say is that when you turn the key to ST, the ignition switch kills power to the ACC wire. You'll notice that your radio turns off when you hit the starter.

You should be ok if you tap the ON wire instead of the ACC wire. The ON wire gets power even if you hit start.

Like I said, you need to get both. ACC misses power when you hit start, but ON misses power on ACC - I want to be able to turn my car off (to the ACC setting) sometimes but still keep my accessories on.

Anyway, I dig your Car-PC PCWiz.

[DaPCWiz]

Any progress on this or is the whole thing an exercise in futility?

Well I'm fairly satisfied with the wiring for the headlights, carpc, and turn signal. The car currently has no front end on it, lol so I can't actually test any of the wiring stuff yet. CarPC is all ripped to pieces as well, as my amp and stuff were all in the way of getting to the fuel pump (in the middle of setting up KA-T) once the car is running (hopefully soon!) i'll start throwing this wiring into the car to see what happens.