**EMERGENCY** SPARK ONLY 1st CYL - SR20DET PLEASE HELP!!!

[blink182house]

Sorry for the caps and etc guys, I have been building this car for months and am shipping out within the next week... ALL I WANT is to start this car for the first time! Car is sohc s13 coupe, redtop s13 sr20det, harness has been done by a reputable shop/person. I have an e5 ecu, and have 2 ignitors from s13 redtops. I am only getting spark on cylinder1!!! The ecu is plugged in and tightened down, both ignitors get same response, all coil packs work. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE i need some help asap!!! ANY (educated) help is GREATLY appreciated!

PS: sorry for being hasty, and YES i have searched for this multiple times but all i get are "wrong ecu" "ignitor" responses, and this is definately not the issue! also, the harness IS setup for e5/62 pinout I have done a continuity test to ignitor and from ignitor to coils. PLEASE dont bash me, I need HELP!

UPDATE:
we got the car running by putting the 62 ecu in, adjusting CAS to TDC and realizing I was sent an s14 SR MAF and swapping to S13... HOWEVER, it runs on 3 cylinders cause I have no spark on cyl1 and not getting a signal pulse to it.
IM STUMPED!
Continuity from ecu to coil for signal wire is good.
12V and Ground good on coil 1.
coilpack is good.
sparkplug is good.
ignitor is good.
ecu is definately good.
coilpack harness is good.

[Sleepy240]

Well your gonna hear it again E5 is the WRONG ecu for your motor. To the best of my knowledge it doesn't matter HOW or WHO did the wiring, the ecu is wrong, I believe that is the only thing that causes one cylinder to spark and not the rest. Especially after you have checked the ignitors etc.

[blink182house]

I was to beleive that 62 and e5 were same pinouts. j4 was different and/or s14 ecu's?

[Sleepy240]

The pinouts may be similar but the ecus are NOT the same. Chances are for one you are using a skinny O2 sensor which is designed for the 62 (redtop ecu), the e5 (blacktop ecu) uses a FAT O2 sensor. Not that will solve your problem but I'm sure its not helping things, if the car did run you would have idle issues to say the least

[blink182house]

as far as spark goes though i should be getting it on 1-4. and i do think i am using the fat o2, z32 turbo 1st o2. but like you said, wouldnt matter in the firing issue right now anyways. i dont want to dog the hell out of the car, i'd just like to hear it start for the first time after i have spent the last 10 months pouring all my time and money into it before i leave.

gaaaahhh its drivin me insane :(

[lost240soul]

yea i had the same problem.. make sure ur wiring is right.. and make sure u have the right ecu.. black top sr ecu's are e5 and j4 which im prett sure they will not work ..

[Sleepy240]

From my understanding the 62/63 WILL run the blacktop correctly but the e5 has problems with the redtop (62/63) if that makes sense

[lost240soul]

From my understanding the 62/63 WILL run the blacktop correctly but the e5 has problems with the redtop (62/63) if that makes sense


not sure.. i did the excact same thing too change the ignitor and still did the same thing.. but my problem was the wiring was done wrong.. amd the ecu didnt match the motor.. j4 but mine was a e5

[fliprayzin240sx]

From my understanding the 62/63 WILL run the blacktop correctly but the e5 has problems with the redtop (62/63) if that makes sense

No, theyre interchangeable. I've done this flip flop alot and all the cars run fine. Ive had E5 ECUs on both blacktop S13 and redtop harness/engine combos. Ive had 62/63 on blacktop setups. Didnt matter what o2 sensor it had, it worked either way.

[GSXRJJordan]

No, theyre interchangeable. I've done this flip flop alot and all the cars run fine. Ive had E5 ECUs on both blacktop S13 and redtop harness/engine combos. Ive had 62/63 on blacktop setups. Didnt matter what o2 sensor it had, it worked either way.

Exactly.

May change the a/f at closed-loop (cruising) if you're using the wrong o2 sensor, but definitely does not affect startup.

Wiring/coilpacks/igniter problems. Or, possibly, a bad ECU. See if your ECU will start another redtop.

[Sleepy240]

Mmmmm, thats odd. I tried an e5 ecu before and proceeded to have weird issues on my redtop, it was nothing that stopped it from running but weird A/F ratios and the like. But no coilpack issues or anything like that. However, I still believe the ecu is the cause of his issues whether the ecu is bad or not

[attracted]

hey man trying going back to basic stuff....
its good that u checked continuity from the coils to the ignitor
but what bout the rest
do you have 12v at the coils on ign
is the ground behind the head good
is the motor properly grounded...
it may be stupid but it just may solve ur problem

btw it could also be something reallyy stupid like cas has some dirt on it and the trigger is not reading properly ...

[blink182house]

Thanks for the input so far guys. Yeah the coil harness is grounded to back of head. Both harness grounds are on intake mani, and there is small ground on head to firewall and large ground from body to a bracket connecting block/freddy intake mani. The guy who wired my harness, who has pretty much done every sr in the memphis area, is coming down tonight and we're going to go over each wire (sadly). I HOPE this is a simple wiring issue and we can get it, I just want to hear her run before I leave lol! This is my first time working on SR's and 240's, I am a previous hachi owner so the coil setup is still learning knowledge to me. I did check continuity from ecu to ignitor, and ignitor to coils and they were correct and working. I have not checked 12v to coils, but I do have continuity on ground on all of them.

Originally I had this same problem with my first ECU, and I assumed after checking the harness and wiring to see that the pinout was S13 harness, that I had an s14 ecu (the ecu sticker was scratched off). So I sent it back to Adrenaline and told chuck my problem, and he said the e5 he was sending me was pulled from a running car and he knew it to be working... so it should be somewhere in wiring. I'm pretty confident the wiring was done correctly though, so I'm hoping once we start going over the wires it's a simple problem such as a missing ground or overlooked plug of some sort.

Keep the ideas and input coming guys, never can try enough specifics. Thank you.

[seven.62]

Dude i hate to say this but it is deffinately in your wiring. Its not the ecu. Have you went through your harness and checked that everything has voltage / grounds where they are supposed to be? There should be a start signal wire that goes into the ecu that tells the injectors to fire and the coils to fire, check that, it should be a orange wire its a 12v signal. It only get the signal for a second when the key is to ign on. after it starts it will go away. Get a fsm for the e5 ecu pinout and the pinout for your harness. You will find your problem. You have already checked to see if your ecu is sending a signal to the ignitor? I have gone through tons of wiring problems and have seen it all. Have you tried another ecu just to see if it starts? Make sure that you dont have any shorts or groundage issues before you connect another ecu to your harness, does your computer have a slight warm smell? I'll keep checking this thread if I can think of something else, all of this is just right off the top of my head while im in class.

[blink182house]

Ok... whew, after a night of scratching our heads still nowhere :(

Went and got another ignitor off a car we KNOW works 100% (but has AEM so couldnt use ecu as well).. same thing, spark only on 1.

12v and grounds on ecu all correct. Grounds and continuity from ecu to ignitor, ignitor to coil harness to coils all correct. 12v on all coilpacks correct. Used a test light and get flashing on only 1st coilpack (duh) for signal wire. Used test light at ECU and it lights up for all 4 cylinder sending wires with key on, but upon cranking just dims no strobe. Checked ground on ecu, head, intake mani, coil harness, engine harness, block... all good.

FOR SOME REASON I am not getting signal to 2,3,4... ANY input please before we end up ripping the harness out to find some bullshit thing overlooked?! Thanks very much to all!

[memphiss13]

I've been helping him out with this a bit. This problem is really strange. It has all the symptoms of the wrong ecu/harness combo. I have checked the pinouts and everything is correct though.
- The ecu has power and ground everywhere its supposed to.
- All the coils have 12v and ground.
- cas has 12v and ground
- continuity has been checked from ecu to each coil

Everything that I check seems to be good. I've just about run out of ideas on this one. These swaps aren't that hard. They typically start right up the first time for me.

[Sleepy240]

Like you said thats what all the symptoms point to, yet I haven't heard you guys say you've tried using a 62/63 ecu. I would think if you tried everything else you could think of this certianly isnt going to hurt anything, and it won't take you very long.

[blink182house]

Except I will have to buy a 62/63 ecu... and it shouldn't differ from the e5 regardless.

[Sleepy240]

You mean theres nobody in your area who has an ecu that you can try? I honestly believe that if you were to try a 62/63 ecu it would VERIFY whether or not the issue wiring for sure atleast IMO. If the ecu still causes only 1 cyl to fire then obviously its wiring, if not whats the big deal? Instead of spending days chasing wiring problems that might not exist you could take the 15 minutes to try ecu.

[blink182house]

Yes I understand that man, process of elimination, but I have been trying to find someone to let me use their 62 ecu for just 5 MINUTES since before I even received this e5 one in the mail. It's ridiculous i know :(

[bik]

exacly the same thing happen to me when try to start my SR with KA ecu -_-;
this is what used to do:
MOV02837.flv video by bik - Photobucket (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v379/bik/?action=view&current=MOV02837.flv)

dont let your friends chose and conect your ecu =/

dont have other runing SR20 on your town can borrow you the ecu to test it?

[blink182house]

So now I've got a friend over here and we plugged in his working 62 ecu. I've got spark on 2,3,4 but now nothing on 1! Grounds are all good, ground on all coils good, 12v on all coils, and the sending signal wire from ecu to ingitor and ignitor to coils are good on all 4 continuity. Also, we'd expect it to atleast crank over and run with 3 firing... but its just turning over and we're getting a little pop out of the exhaust. Any ideas guys?

[blink182house]

we got the car running by putting the 62 ecu in, adjusting CAS to TDC and realizing I was sent an s14 SR MAF and swapping to S13... HOWEVER, it runs on 3 cylinders cause I have no spark on cyl1 and not getting a signal pulse to it.
IM STUMPED!
Continuity from ecu to coil for signal wire is good.
12V and Ground good on coil 1.
coilpack is good.
sparkplug is good.
ignitor is good.
ecu is definately good.
coilpack harness is good.

[Sleepy240]

The ECU was definitely part of the original problem, is the ecu throwing any codes ATM? I would double check your Ignition Signal Ground (should be black), it might not be secured very well.

[blink182house]

The ECU was definitely part of the original problem, is the ecu throwing any codes ATM? I would double check your Ignition Signal Ground (should be black), it might not be secured very well.

The ground on the coilpack harness? Its fine, even moved it to another spot and used 2 different harnesses. This may sound stupid, but like I said I'm new to nissan and sr's, how do I check the codes on the ECU? Thanks.

[Sleepy240]

The Ignition Signal Ground is on the pinout -> #6 - Ignition Signal Ground - Black , this can cause weird issues (I have seen it before, but not as bad as you have it)

Rather than just copy and paste a whole list just go to ECU Fault Codes (http://www.240sxmotoring.com/ecufaultcodes.html)

[SusanR34]

Sorry about the ECU. We should of checked to make sure the proper ECU and MAF was with the engine before it left our shop. I will get you the correct one.

Please let me know if you need any additional parts. I talked with one of my tech's and he has the following suggestions. Hope this helps. (susan)

Swap around the coil packs from #1cyl (dead cyl) to #4 (cyl that is firing). Just to determine that your coil pack is good. Try swapping in a working igniter also just to eliminate that possible part.

The S14 Mass air flow is plastic and has an oval plug. Totally different than the S13 MAF that is metal and has a square plug with a metal retaining ring to snap it into the MAF. I'm wondering how you had the S14 MAF connected when the plug on the SR harness would not have plugged into the S14 MAF.

Here is a good write up on how to set the crank angle. Just so I don't have to type everything out. :) Driver side cam gear key (the dowel pin that comes out of the cam) should be at 12 o'clock position. The passenger cam gear key is at 10 o'clock. There are 20 rollers between the marks on the cam gears.
How To Set Crank Angle Sensor (CAS) Timing on the SR20DET Engine (http://www.frsport.com/How-To-Set-Crank-Angle-Sensor--CAS--Timing-on-the-SR20DET-Engine_t_25.html)

Also look at the crank angle to see if it has both marks on it. Most, if not all remanufactured CAS don't have the original markings. So look at this thread. I usually check all that just to make sure everything is good as far as timing goes.
CAS markings missing?: SR20DET Forum (rear-drive): Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub (http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=398545&postid=4419395)

You can remove the CAS, remove the spark plugs, put the plugs into the coil packs. Then put the spark plugs to the head, this will make sure the plugs are grounded to the head and you can rotate the CAS by hand and hear the fuel pump engage and fill the rail with fuel. You will hear the injectors click and the spark plugs will fire. That is a way of determining which plug is not firing.

The symptom of only one cylinder firing is an ECU issue. That is an ECU from the front wheel drive SR with a distributor. I believe that it is from a Bluebird, but don't hold me to that. There could have been other cars over there that have that ECU also.

From what I'm hearing, Chuck plugged in an ECU to a customers car that we have here, and then sent that one to you. That car is an S13 with a red top S13 in it.

Checking other things like grounds is essential also. From what I read in your post, it seems that has been checked. But I wanted to mention it again. Also get rid of that test light and get a voltage meter that takes ohms readings on it. They usually have a buzzer that will go off when it has good continuity to ground or good continuity for a wire you are checking. They are cheap at Sears and a valuable tool to have instead of a "test light".

Adam

[blink182house]

Sorry about the ECU. We should of checked to make sure the proper ECU and MAF was with the engine before it left our shop. I will get you the correct one.

Please let me know if you need any additional parts. I talked with one of my tech's and he has the following suggestions. Hope this helps. (susan)

Swap around the coil packs from #1cyl (dead cyl) to #4 (cyl that is firing). Just to determine that your coil pack is good. Try swapping in a working igniter also just to eliminate that possible part.

The S14 Mass air flow is plastic and has an oval plug. Totally different than the S13 MAF that is metal and has a square plug with a metal retaining ring to snap it into the MAF. I'm wondering how you had the S14 MAF connected when the plug on the SR harness would not have plugged into the S14 MAF.

Here is a good write up on how to set the crank angle. Just so I don't have to type everything out. :) Driver side cam gear key (the dowel pin that comes out of the cam) should be at 12 o'clock position. The passenger cam gear key is at 10 o'clock. There are 20 rollers between the marks on the cam gears.
How To Set Crank Angle Sensor (CAS) Timing on the SR20DET Engine (http://www.frsport.com/How-To-Set-Crank-Angle-Sensor--CAS--Timing-on-the-SR20DET-Engine_t_25.html)

Also look at the crank angle to see if it has both marks on it. Most, if not all remanufactured CAS don't have the original markings. So look at this thread. I usually check all that just to make sure everything is good as far as timing goes.
CAS markings missing?: SR20DET Forum (rear-drive): Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub (http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=398545&postid=4419395)

You can remove the CAS, remove the spark plugs, put the plugs into the coil packs. Then put the spark plugs to the head, this will make sure the plugs are grounded to the head and you can rotate the CAS by hand and hear the fuel pump engage and fill the rail with fuel. You will hear the injectors click and the spark plugs will fire. That is a way of determining which plug is not firing.

The symptom of only one cylinder firing is an ECU issue. That is an ECU from the front wheel drive SR with a distributor. I believe that it is from a Bluebird, but don't hold me to that. There could have been other cars over there that have that ECU also.

From what I'm hearing, Chuck plugged in an ECU to a customers car that we have here, and then sent that one to you. That car is an S13 with a red top S13 in it.

Checking other things like grounds is essential also. From what I read in your post, it seems that has been checked. But I wanted to mention it again. Also get rid of that test light and get a voltage meter that takes ohms readings on it. They usually have a buzzer that will go off when it has good continuity to ground or good continuity for a wire you are checking. They are cheap at Sears and a valuable tool to have instead of a "test light".

Adam
Thanks Susan I hope you guys can locate a 62 ecu for me soon.

As far as all those tips, all that has been covered.
-all coilpacks have been swapped and are GOOD
-all plugs are brand new, have been swapped, and are GOOD
-I have removed the CAS and set the timing to TDC +15d stock setup with all marks matching
-I have a good Sears voltage meter that checks continuity with beep, I used a test light only to see the pulse (which never worked)... this is the first time I've ever even USED this thing, i love my voltage meter lol
-all grounds are good and have been check (good ground on head, block, intake manifold, coilpack harness, and both grounds on main engine harness on intake manifold)
-all 4 injectors ARE firing
-the problem using the original ECU I received from adrenaline was spark ONLY on cylinder1, as well as with the E5 ecu that was swapped with my original. I borrowed a #62 from a friend and then got spark on #2,3,4 but NOT on cylinder1 (the problem flipped).
-the ignitor is GOOD, have tried 2 others and also put my ignitor on Trevors car and it ran fine.
-the MAF I received was a 69F00, which matched my friends S14 blacktop MAF. The MAF I had laying around, that when swapped, made the motor run immediately (and matched a friends S13 redtop) is 52F00.
-Forrest did my wiring harness and he and I are both confident that the harness is intact, it was in damn good shape when I received it. We have checked the pinouts from the ECU and determined it IS an s13 redtop harness. All grounds and permanent/switched 12v's at the ECU are CORRECT and work. Continuity checks correct from pin1,2,8,9 on ECU (corrosponding with coil1,2,3,4) to the ignitor, and from the ignitor to coilpacks CORRECTLY.

This one is most DEFINATELY a head scratcher, but I am confident that this E5 ecu, though Chuck tested it and it worked, will not work with my car for some reason. I need a 62 so I can atleast have the car running on 3 cylinders and figure out why I'm not getting spark on one. Until then, I have a completely different problem on my hands while using this E5.

[Xren17]

Did you figure out the problem?