LSD question..

[Driftin_240sx]

ok.. i am just wondering... what makes a viscous limited slip different from a 1.5 way or 2 way. i need to get one because trying to drift with a open diff. is getting kinda lame. more like power sliding. anywase i see that they have jdm vlsd on like heavy throttle and it is way cheaper than a 1.5 or 2 way lsd... what is so different and is there a certain one i need?
what are you guys using? (the guys that accually drift that is)

david

[Dousan_PG]

ive tried all VLSD (on s14) and a 2 way mechanical AND a 2 way clutch LSDs

vlsd: slow reacting, over time you'll regret having it for drift and need to upgrade

2 way mechanical: slow reacting (but faster then VLSD) and soon you'll regret having it for drift and need to upgrade

2 way clutch: the best you can buy for drift.


i have a 2 way mechanical. upgrading to 2 way clutch in the coming few months. i dont like the mechanical.


from moto at club4ag.com

2 way is preferred by users who want positive and stable LSD action in both decelerating and accelerating. it has a potential to make more initial understeer for those who have problems pitching the car with lack of skill or with suspensions that are tuned for high speed stability. Drifters prefer 2 way because of the more equal locking effect in both on and off throttle conditions.

1.5 is a compromise for those who seek more agressive turn-in as the wheels are more free to initiate turns in less agressive turning inputs. In autocross it might be beneficial as suspension tuning affects the initiation into corners less than 2 way. It offers less lock up in deceleration mode for those who prefer a more stable braking into corners. It offers the same acceleration lockup as the 2 way out of corners.

[Tubed4evr]

Dousan when you say mechanical do you mean a Mesh Gear type such as Quaife? What lsd do you have?

[Dousan_PG]

i dont know how to explain the difference.
i have a secret sports mechanical 2 way LSD.
works great on the track but lags some. upgrding soon.....:D ;)


might google LSD types. i am horrible at explaining it.

clutch and mechanical are the two types most common for our cars.

kaaz, nismo, cusco, tomei all make clutch types in 1, 1.5 or 2 ways
nismo also makes mechanical in the 3 ways iirc.

[sykikchimp]

It would seem that 1.5 way clutch type would be the way to go for a road race application... My personal concern is always that I hear clutch type diffs require a lot of maintanance.

How easy is it to maintain them? what is involved? do you have to periodically disassemble the actual LSD Unit? that sounds like a real PITA..

[Dousan_PG]

yeah they need to be rebuilt over time (new clutch plates i think). not sure how much, but bwalker240 on FA has had his nismo 1.5 for about 2 years without a rebuild, buthe thinks its time for one.

clutch: just keep on top of fluid changes. be anal about it. more track use? change it more regularly. stuff adds up (cost wise)

[240 2NR]

Originally posted by dousan36

2 way mechanical: slow reacting (but faster then VLSD) and soon you'll regret having it for drift and need to upgrade

I'm not sure you can call a quaife slow reacting. I guess slow compared to a clutch type which is locked until the breakway torque is reached, but the reviews I have read say that a wheel doesn't even need to spin before torque is redistributed. It has to do with wheel speed differentials, of which the difference need only be very small to mesh the gears. It pretty much reacts before any splip can even happen. In situations outside of rock crawling (they act like open diffs when you lift a wheel), and potentially drift (I haven't done it, so I'll assume the drifters know better what works) mechanical type diffs pretty much kick a$$.

[DoriftoSlut]

Damn i hate getting suckered into threads...

mechanical LSD's need some type of traction on 1 wheel to lock the other. Since it needs to torque the wheel to send even power to the other one, with little or no traction (1 wheel off ground or wheels spinning/sliding) it is possible that it will react at times like an open diff. That applies to the Quaiffe/torsen diff, but iirc, some mechanical ones (like Dousans and Nismo ones) are different. Maybe they are helical types? Helical/mechanical/torsen are terms that get tossed around pretty easily lately. Dunno what are/ aren't considered the same anymore... I dunno I haven't heard much about them.

VLSD uses variance in wheel speed to creat friction, which cretaes heat, whcih expands a heat-sensitive fluid inside a sak that expands outward and presses against 2 pressure rings to lock the driveshafts. thsi means initially, when starting the drift, the sack needs to heat up and expand before locking the torque delivery to be even.

Clutch types use a pinion to move in differently cut slots between pressure rings so that it will move forward or backward, and with a certain amount of force/movement, it iwll press the rings outward, which presses the clutches together which will lock the power delivery as well. This uses the same force everytime and thus is very a. direct, b. consistant, and c. quick.

Those are 3 basic basic explanations..








:D

[Steeles]

dorifto - I thought the Nismo ones were clutch types? maybe not. I know mine (NISMO) didnt like the ice we got at all... well neither did my tires for that matter but I digress

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Steeles
dorifto - I thought the Nismo ones were clutch types? maybe not. I know mine (NISMO) didnt like the ice we got at all... well neither did my tires for that matter but I digress

nismo makes both, mechanical AND clutch.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by 240 2NR
In situations outside of rock crawling (they act like open diffs when you lift a wheel), and potentially drift (I haven't done it, so I'll assume the drifters know better what works) mechanical type diffs pretty much kick a$$.


hey dude. i have a mechanical diff. it sucks.
look at ANY professional drifter. what do they use?

CLUTCH LSD

pros: Nismo SSS Clutch LSD


no one uses mechanical drift wise in japan..so that says something. my clutch is slow, i can feel it. not as bad as a VLSD because i tried drifting a car w/ VLSD and i was like WTF grip already!

now the nismo clutch i drove, damn that sucker was looked the whole time. VERY nice. VERY nice.

[Steeles]

Originally posted by dousan36
nismo makes both, mechanical AND clutch.

so now I get to play even dumber..... How do you tell them apart (got mine used)

[Dousan_PG]

mm not sure. i have a LSD i got used too, said it was clutch.

basically,

cluthc makes lots of loud noises when engaging disengaging (kaaz does, nismo does-i have friends with both). both are noisy

mechanical is QUIET.

mine is very quiet, i only hear itmake noise once in a while. very rare

that might be able to help u find out what you have.

clutch-loud
mechanical-quiet.

[Steeles]

Originally posted by dousan36
mm not sure. i have a LSD i got used too, said it was clutch.

basically,

cluthc makes lots of loud noises when engaging disengaging (kaaz does, nismo does-i have friends with both). both are noisy

mechanical is QUIET.

mine is very quiet, i only hear itmake noise once in a while. very rare

that might be able to help u find out what you have.

clutch-loud
mechanical-quiet.

then I'd have to say mines definatly clutch. it sounds like somethings breaking when it locks up. clunks hard enough to FEEL like the seat shakes. (gotta put some bushings in the front of that thing)

[Dousan_PG]

YEP definately clutch

u can get diff quieter from redline and mopar (both are same thing, dont let the domestic thing fool you). my friend usese mopar in his nismo 2way (driftingpanda) but i think he can get redline now so might as well, we both use redline fluid.

it helps quiet it down quite a bit. its an additive.

[Steeles]

Originally posted by dousan36
YEP definately clutch

u can get diff quieter from redline and mopar (both are same thing, dont let the domestic thing fool you). my friend usese mopar in his nismo 2way (driftingpanda) but i think he can get redline now so might as well, we both use redline fluid.

it helps quiet it down quite a bit. its an additive.

yeah mine quited down alot when I went to the HD shockproof Redline. but I just recently (like two weeks ago) saw the redline additive. I may try that when I chenge the fluid in it (which Im overdue for)

[sykikchimp]

Due to the fact that a Helical LSD can act as an Open diff when there is a loss contact with the surface of the road, these are not generally good for drifting, because mid drift, when you want to be able to modulate power, the diff may be sending power to the wrong tire because of the very low friction it is receiving. Kind of weird but, honestly a VLSD is better for drift than a HLSD, and a Clutch type is better than both..

For grip road racing, HLSD is better than a VLSD because the vlsd will be locking harder out of the corner, where as the torque biasing will be just about perfect in the HLSD. Will allow you to get on the gas earlier, and essentially lead to higher exit speeds.

I'm not sure how all that translates to Clutch types.. It seems that clutch type LSD's are the best for Drag racing, and Drift. HLSD is best for Grip driving, and worst for Drift. VLSD is a good all around in between Differential.

[madwilly240]

would you feel a major difference from stock open diff. to VLSD? would it cut of any seconds in the 1/4?

also, could i put an older VLSD from an s13 into my s14?

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by madwilly240
would you feel a major difference from stock open diff. to VLSD?

yes

would it cut of any seconds in the 1/4?

i dont think about SECONDS could be 1 second maybe? but u will have better times.

also, could i put an older VLSD from an s13 into my s14?

yes. use the search mode under "VLSD" to find out how. its been discussed so many times.