Rear lower ball joint question

[wangan_cruiser]

how often do they go bad? anyone ever replaced them? any recommendation? ive search through various forums and what i found so far is that b13 sentra front ball joint fits it and more beefier. ive searched that information here to match it up but i failed no match info.

anyone?

[projectRDM]

I've never seen a 'bad' one, but as a rotating, moving part they do wear out. OE replacement calls for a new arm, so it's your call on what you do aftermarket.

[redline racer510]

i say replace with oem

[DaPCWiz]

Do an ebay search for "240sx roll center" should give you some options...

remember they have to be pressed out/in. If you don't want to deal with that, just go oem.

[Grimsta]

Yeah, i've never seen a bad one, not that common, but it can certanly go bad. We could fab up and adjustable arm with a roll center adjustable ball joint using SPL parts :D

[ManoNegra]

We could fab up and adjustable arm with a roll center adjustable ball joint using SPL parts :D

You mean like the ones SPL already sells?
Too bad they cost more than your average kid's 240.

[McRussellPants]

Im broke so i'm gonna put sphericals in my stock arm.


I'll try the B13 Sentra things though.

[racepar1]

I'm currently running b-13 sentra front ball joints on my RLCA's. They fit perfect, they are just 1mm larger so you have to sand the bore in the arm some to make them fit. I plan on doing the same for the RLCA's for my s-14 rear subframe before I drop it into my fastback.

[Grimsta]

You mean like the ones SPL already sells?
Too bad they cost more than your average kid's 240.Exactly like the ones SPL sells, but oops, I meant SPC parts! We buy the components and fab it up and it costs less. You're paying SPL an inflated rate for their name. SPC sells all those heim joints, spherical bearings, adjustment rods and special pieces all independently so you can fab anything for anything

[ixfxi]

Just wanted to clearup some mis-information and add to the plethora of information here on Zilvia, the B12 Sentra ball joints are what you people need.

I picked up a pair off ebay for a steal of a price from "partsdepot1" in Canada, excellent reputation - quick shipping, got exactly what I paid for. From my inspection I cant see anything wrong with the quality of these ball joints, plus they came with grease fittings which I will absolutely not complain about!

http://clearcorners.com/temp/parts26.jpg

I will do a side-by-side comparison next week just to confirm, but my caliper measured these at 38.3mm

Keep the shiny sides up.

[Propaganda]

if those are the roll-adjusting ones, I read somewhere that those don't actually correct the suspension geometry and may make it worse

[projectRDM]

You really can't adjust roll center by just lengthening the ball joint. The only good thing about people selling those adjustable units is they're replaceable.

[ixfxi]

what is this propaganda you folks are spreading?

[racepar1]

Most of the roll so called "roll center adapted ball joints" are pure bullshit. 99.99999999% of them simply space the entire ball joint up, which does nothing as it does not change the position of the pivot point. In order to adjust roll center you need a longer balljoint shank so that the pivot point itself is spaced down. Spacing the entire ball joint in any direction will do nothing for roll center.

[DaPCWiz]

You really can't adjust roll center by just lengthening the ball joint. The only good thing about people selling those adjustable units is they're replaceable.

Most of the roll so called "roll center adapted ball joints" are pure bullshit. 99.99999999% of them simply space the entire ball joint up, which does nothing as it does not change the position of the pivot point. In order to adjust roll center you need a longer balljoint shank so that the pivot point itself is spaced down. Spacing the entire ball joint in any direction will do nothing for roll center.

Agreed... but they are still selling balljoints that fit our cars... not 1mm off or something.. :bigok:

[racepar1]

Agreed... but they are still selling balljoints that fit our cars... not 1mm off or something.. :bigok:

What you don't have access to some emory cloth and a press? The b-13 ones fit just fine, you just have to spend like 5 mins sanding the bore a bit. Not to mention the moog b-13 front balljoints are cheaper and of better quality then any of the taiwan spec fake roll center adjusted balljoints.

[DaPCWiz]

true... you do have a valid point.. I'd be afraid of the sanding getting too big and not seating the balljoint securely in the arm though? Maybe I just don't have enough experience with balljoints...

[racepar1]

true... you do have a valid point.. I'd be afraid of the sanding getting too big and not seating the balljoint securely in the arm though? Maybe I just don't have enough experience with balljoints...


Trust me getting it seated firmly and straight is not an issue. Just make sure it is pressed all the way down.

[dori_sil8t]

moog part number is k9449 92-94 ser

[DJ_Sunrise]

Define bad.. Everyone has their own definition. I just replaced my front lower control arms.. brand new OEM. WOW. What a difference. Were my ball joints bad? No. I had poly bushings in the old ones, poly in the new ones... so the only "new" part was the ball joint. Night and day difference, and then some. But the old ones weren't actually "bad". People that have driven my car say they can't feel much of a difference, but I can. The problem with pressing the ball joints out is the control arms usually bend, if not done properly. Most people won't mess it up, but the point is... its a liability, cuz there is always some stupid idiot, who does something.. you guessed it... stupid and idiotic.

[projectRDM]

I've never known anyone who can over 'sand' a hole for a ball joint, but you do have a snap ring securing it as well.

[ixfxi]

moog part number is k9449 92-94 ser

guys, the problem with the B13 sentra ball joint is not only that its 1mm wider, but also that its got a gap between the control arm and the c-clip. I did not like that. If I am going through the trouble of changing something, I would prefer it be an exact fit - meaning, no boring out the hole and not having a gap.

This is the reason I made this post, to let others know that the B12 joints are a direct fit.

edit: aron, what if you have a powdercoated arm and dont feel like boring out the control arm and possibly scratching the nice finish. Thats the point of buying something that is 100% replacement, it should in fact be 100%... not 100% but you gotta do this and this and this. Being the meticulous bastard I am, this is how I build my own products.. so that they are 100% bolt on.

[racepar1]

guys, the problem with the B13 sentra ball joint is not only that its 1mm wider, but also that its got a gap between the control arm and the c-clip. I did not like that. If I am going through the trouble of changing something, I would prefer it be an exact fit - meaning, no boring out the hole and not having a gap.

The stock ball joint has a small gap too. There isn't enough force there to press the joint out.

This is the reason I made this post, to let others know that the B12 joints are a direct fit.

I'll have to look into this.

edit: aron, what if you have a powdercoated arm and dont feel like boring out the control arm and possibly scratching the nice finish. Thats the point of buying something that is 100% replacement, it should in fact be 100%... not 100% but you gotta do this and this and this. Being the meticulous bastard I am, this is how I build my own products.. so that they are 100% bolt on.

If you had your arm powdercoated then you will most likely have to sand it to get the OE joint to fit anyways. Or it may chip your pretty powdercoat while you are pressing it in. The part of the arm that you would have to sand is completely covered by the ball joint so I see absolutely no point at all to worrying about it.

I know you are a meticulous bastard......OVERLY meticulous! LOL! With your lights you have to be, but we are speaking of my world now. The greasy undercar realm! Welcome to the dark side! Muuuuuhahahahahahahaha! In all seriousness though I am a racer. I couldn't give less of a fuck about chips, scratches, dings/dents, or basically anything pretty as long as everything works like it is supposed to. If I ever do get around to painting my car within a year it will be a 20 foot car. That means that from 20 feet away, and in pictures, it looks great. When you get up close though you see all the small flaws. I would be perfectly happy with that.

[projectRDM]

I just finished a job this week with a full powdercoated suspension on an S14.5, I pressed out/in the ball joints on both the front and rear so the oven wouldn't boil the grease, they were a tighter fit afterwards and required some sanding. Powdercoat is easily thicker than paint so unless you buy a ball joint 1mm smaller you're going to have to sand anyway.

[ixfxi]

amazing, my powdercoater masks sections of things i dont want coated. masking the inside section of the ball joint hole is a must.

aron, click on the following image to see a pic of my friend and customer, tony @ riverside infiniti's 350Z undercarriage...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/tonyatperformance/MD%20EXHAUST%20AND%20JIC/RAINBOWEXHAUST.jpg

i know i know... its mostly being used for show. my car wont be so fancy underneath, though i do plan on refurbishing and recoating all the arms and parts under the car. with that said, the difference between a good mechanic and a great mechanic should be the ability to handle a car of a certain stature with care. meaning, if its your average car you do a good clean job. but if youre working on a car like the above Z, you want a skilled individual who will take the time and care into doing the job and not scratching parts that have been restored.

one thing is for sure, if my car is all pimped out and i decide to trust a mechanic to do work on my car.. the last thing i want to have is shit scratched and damaged when i put all the time and money into restoring it. fortunately, i do all my own work and i have no one to blame other than myself. but attention to detail and careful work is hard to find.

[projectRDM]

Wow. The car I'm doing is the 260SX from buwaldahybrids.com, he's local and a good friend. We've completely rebuild every inch of it, including replacing every single bolt on the car with stainless cap head versions. Some of the bolts have run up to $22 each. All the suspension is now powdercoated red.

[racepar1]

amazing, my powdercoater masks sections of things i dont want coated. masking the inside section of the ball joint hole is a must.

aron, click on the following image to see a pic of my friend and customer, tony @ riverside infiniti's 350Z undercarriage...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/tonyatperformance/MD%20EXHAUST%20AND%20JIC/RAINBOWEXHAUST.jpg

i know i know... its mostly being used for show. my car wont be so fancy underneath, though i do plan on refurbishing and recoating all the arms and parts under the car. with that said, the difference between a good mechanic and a great mechanic should be the ability to handle a car of a certain stature with care. meaning, if its your average car you do a good clean job. but if youre working on a car like the above Z, you want a skilled individual who will take the time and care into doing the job and not scratching parts that have been restored.

one thing is for sure, if my car is all pimped out and i decide to trust a mechanic to do work on my car.. the last thing i want to have is shit scratched and damaged when i put all the time and money into restoring it. fortunately, i do all my own work and i have no one to blame other than myself. but attention to detail and careful work is hard to find.

I definitely couldn't promise you that I would give even 1/16 of a fuck about scratching a suspension arm on any car other then a super trailer queen show car. Then I might give 1/2 a fuck.

[ixfxi]

what if someone brings you a ferrari to work on?

all i am saying is, is that you have to know how to work on cars that are special.

work clean and you'll make more in the long run, at least i think so.

[racepar1]

what if someone brings you a ferrari to work on?

all i am saying is, is that you have to know how to work on cars that are special.

work clean and you'll make more in the long run, at least i think so.

Mike, we're talking about a suspension arm. It is not even possible to remove a ball joint without uglying up either the knuckle, the arm, or the balljoint boot. You either beat the shit out of the knuckle with a hammer to pop the joint loose or you get a pickle fork and beat up the boot, knuckle, and arm. There are things that are worth worrying about scratching and things that aren't. A suspension arm falls into the latter category. On a hot rod with exposed suspension arms or on a show car special precautions may be necessary, but on a 240? Who cares? I wouldn't bend it all up or anything like that, but a couple scratches and a hammer mark, whatever. Even on a ferarri it is still whatever. On a race car it is REALLY whatever.

[TheArkitekt]

racepar1 - you said you have used the B13 ball joints on the track with no adverse effect? I'm looking to do mine soon, since its all apart and the ones on there now have ~120k on them, seems like the time to do them.

[MELLO*SOS]

B13 joint work okay on the track IMO. But next time I do the rears I'll try the B12's out. I'm sure someone out there is putting off doing balljoints due to lack of a press? Go down to your checkers/oreilly/autozone and rent/borrow the balljoint toolkit... Takes only a few minutes to do each ball joint once u have the arms out... Impact wrench makes it go faster...


** FRONT S13 BALL JOINTS **
Just did front ball joints this past weekend, threw s13 bj's into s14 lca. Before I forget, the Moog PN is k9509.
** FRONT S13 BALL JOINTS **

[TheArkitekt]

well, i havent ordered any parts yet, so i think ill give the B12s a shot. It looks like moog P/N 9633 should do the trick, ill confirm that once i get them in.

[TheArkitekt]

quick update, the B12 Moog balljoint works great! Quick and easy install. I think they were $12 each or something. P/N 9633

[handinpants]

guys, the problem with the B13 sentra ball joint is not only that its 1mm wider, but also that its got a gap between the control arm and the c-clip. I did not like that. If I am going through the trouble of changing something, I would prefer it be an exact fit - meaning, no boring out the hole and not having a gap.

This is the reason I made this post, to let others know that the B12 joints are a direct fit.

edit: aron, what if you have a powdercoated arm and dont feel like boring out the control arm and possibly scratching the nice finish. Thats the point of buying something that is 100% replacement, it should in fact be 100%... not 100% but you gotta do this and this and this. Being the meticulous bastard I am, this is how I build my own products.. so that they are 100% bolt on.

good post man, i am happy to see someone who actually does research and puts it out here, definitely helped me....

[ixfxi]

good post man, i am happy to see someone who actually does research and puts it out here, definitely helped me....

thank you, steven. thank you very much

[boske]

Mike, we're talking about a suspension arm. It is not even possible to remove a ball joint without uglying up either the knuckle, the arm, or the balljoint boot. You either beat the shit out of the knuckle with a hammer to pop the joint loose or you get a pickle fork and beat up the boot, knuckle, and arm.


http://www.classiccougar.net/ViTech/controlvalve_files/image014.jpg


seriously? I have to cringe when I see people using pickle forks, especially when they are reusing the ball joints!

[cazman]

B13 joint work okay on the track IMO. But next time I do the rears I'll try the B12's out. I'm sure someone out there is putting off doing balljoints due to lack of a press? Go down to your checkers/oreilly/autozone and rent/borrow the balljoint toolkit... Takes only a few minutes to do each ball joint once u have the arms out... Impact wrench makes it go faster...


** FRONT S13 BALL JOINTS **
Just did front ball joints this past weekend, threw s13 bj's into s14 lca. Before I forget, the Moog PN is k9509.
** FRONT S13 BALL JOINTS **
S13 and S14 front ball joints are different, the ball joint taper is not the same.
It may look like the S14 one is doing up, but its not seating

[Flicktitty]

i think i might have to pick up the B12 ones. the BJ on the coupe seem to be going out.

thanks.