electric fans cutting out

[khilgers]

I am currently running a koyorad radiator with dual 12" FAL fans. I just have the fans wired up to a switch where I can manually turn them on/off. While at the track this weekend after a couple runs and waiting in line my car would begin to overheat. My fans would keep cutting in an out as the car got hotter and hotter. I would take it back to the pits, check all the wiring, and they would still cut in an out. Any ideas, or possible reasons this could be happening.

At 1 point in the day my defi temp gauge would read 228 degress, definately getting up there. I also have the sensor for the gauge tapped into the upper radiator hose.

[louisdaboois]

the switch itself could be overheating, happened to me but a little bit more violent lol.

try wiring the fans to a relay and have the ground to the relay controlled by the switch.

[khilgers]

They were originally wired into a DIF dual fan controller, but the controller took a crap on me. It does however have a manual on/off switch that I have been using since it still works. So since the the DIF fan controller has relays built in, and it doens't work anymore this could be the reason that it is cutting in an out?

this is the controller I was using.
http://www.frsport.com/DIF-Universal-Dual-Electric-Fan-Controller-Version-B_p_8173.html

[Mister.E]

TAKE OUT THE CONTROLLER!!! i had the DiF controller and it fucking sucks. i drove to the track one day and my fucking fans would shut off, then come back on, and shut off and come back on (continuously) even when the ignition was off. i had to rip the controller out and hardwire them in just so i could drift that day. that thing is a piece of shit. also, i highly recommend wiring the fans in through a relay and not directly through a switch. i had them wired in through a switch and the damn switch melted in the ON position and i couldnt turn off the fans without ripping the wire off the back of the switch contacts. i wired the whole system with a new switch and a 30amp relay and everything has been working really well since then.

[khilgers]

the only problem is that I am basically electrically braindead, I'm not scared to admit it. So basically I need to remove the controller and wire the fans into a 30 amp relay, with a fuse, and a switch. Seems simple enough.

[Mister.E]

you have the basic idea right but i can make you a diagram later. im at work right now and my resources are crazy limited. just send me a PM later to remind me, i have the worst memory ever.

[Bigsyke]

I am currently running a koyorad radiator with dual 12" FAL fans. I just have the fans wired up to a switch where I can manually turn them on/off. While at the track this weekend after a couple runs and waiting in line my car would begin to overheat. My fans would keep cutting in an out as the car got hotter and hotter. I would take it back to the pits, check all the wiring, and they would still cut in an out. Any ideas, or possible reasons this could be happening.

At 1 point in the day my defi temp gauge would read 228 degress, definately getting up there. I also have the sensor for the gauge tapped into the upper radiator hose.


You should take a look at my setup it works quite well. What track were you at?

the only problem is that I am basically electrically braindead, I'm not scared to admit it. So basically I need to remove the controller and wire the fans into a 30 amp relay, with a fuse, and a switch. Seems simple enough.

You need to stop by and check my setup out, 1st fan is all stock wiring, 2nd is going off of relays. The 2nd fans relays triggers when the 1st fans kicks on. Then I have the blue green wire on FAN1's relay in hte fuse box wired to a switch in the dash, then wired to a ground.

This way no matter what, the fans will kick on @ 203*f....however if I kick ground to the relays via the switch (taped into the blue/green wire), I can control when the fans turn on.

[g6civcx]

Show me how your fan is currently wired. A wiring diagram is preferred, or anything you can come up with.

[khilgers]

exactly like this except, I tapped into the CTS at the ecu to keep things cleaner in the engine bay.

DIF Dual Fan Controller Install on S13 S14 240SX (http://www.frsport.com/DIF-Dual-Fan-Controller-Install-on-S13-S14-240SX_t_22.html)

like I said the controller stopped working about 6 months ago, but the manual switch still works and that is what I have been using. It's stays plenty cool at highway speeds, just gets a little hot at the track.

[g6civcx]

exactly like this except, I tapped into the CTS at the ecu to keep things cleaner in the engine bay.

DIF Dual Fan Controller Install on S13 S14 240SX (http://www.frsport.com/DIF-Dual-Fan-Controller-Install-on-S13-S14-240SX_t_22.html)

like I said the controller stopped working about 6 months ago, but the manual switch still works and that is what I have been using. It's stays plenty cool at highway speeds, just gets a little hot at the track.

Based on the link you posted, the manual switch is wired to the DiF controller.

Since you said that the controller stopped working, and the switch is wired to the controller, can it be reasoned that the controller is not allowing the switch to turn on the fan?

How about you remove the controller completely and use a relay and switch to control the fan?

[khilgers]

The fans use to come on at the preset temps and then the controller crapped out and would only turn both fans on at the highest set temp. That eventually esculated into the fans not turning on at all. The only way they come on now is with the manual switch. my plan is to take the controller out, throw it away and just wire the fans up to a relay and a switch.

I just need some sort of diagram to go off of since I don't know much about wiring.

[Mister.E]

i got your PM bro, ill hook you up when i get off. only 5 more hours :down:

[g6civcx]

You should really run a good fan controller.

I heard a lot of DiF controllers burning out. Are you putting a fuse on all of your power wires going to the controller?

[louisdaboois]

the only problem is that I am basically electrically braindead, I'm not scared to admit it. So basically I need to remove the controller and wire the fans into a 30 amp relay, with a fuse, and a switch. Seems simple enough.


yea man, ive had the setup for a while now and ive never gotten into a problem so far.

basically my setup is: 30amp relay (w/ pins: 30, 85, 86, and 87), 15amp fuse, and a toggle switch.

from the fans i grounded them to the chassis. then run the power wire from the fans to pin 87. i have a wire tapped into the fuel pump fuse (because its switched 12v) onto pin 86 so the fans only turn on with the key in the 'on' position (just to prevent it from killing the battery if the switch is accidently left on). then on pin 30, i have it going straight to the + side of the battery with the 15 amp inline fuse. then on pin 85, i have a wire going into the cabin grounded to the bolt on the shifter trim with a toggle switch inline so i can turn it on and off at will.

so in short:
pin 30: + side of battery w/ 15amp fuse
pin 85: ground (with toggle switch if you want)
pin 86: fuel pump fuse
pin 87: + side of fans.

[Mister.E]

alright man, here is a diagram of exactly how i have my setup wired and everything works great. hope this helps.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1326/fanwiringql8.jpg

[g6civcx]

alright man, here is a diagram of exactly how i have my setup wired and everything works great. hope this helps.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1326/fanwiringql8.jpg

That should work. Just make sure you put a fuse on the switch and all the wires touching pins 30 and 87 are at least 12gauge, and preferably 10gauge.

[mifesto]

bigsyke, the blue/green you tapped to a switch then ground is the pin 86 on the fan relay (in the fuse box) correct?

[mifesto]

g6civcx, is that 30A relay you used , the fan relay sitting in the fuse box?

[Black240Ct]

nice write up on the fan relay. thats the way i have done them in the past. customers want the fal fan switch installed but its a waste. ive seen so many of those fan switches fried to the point of melting plastic and possibly starting fires.

wiring in a relay with the switch, like you have it, i havent seen any electrical problems.

[s15specR]

Autozone carries a fan controller like what Enjuku sells, its a 1/3 of the price but comes with relays, ac override and very easy to install, also has and external fuse and heavy guage wires.



They were originally wired into a DIF dual fan controller, but the controller took a crap on me. It does however have a manual on/off switch that I have been using since it still works. So since the the DIF fan controller has relays built in, and it doens't work anymore this could be the reason that it is cutting in an out?

this is the controller I was using.
DIF Universal Dual Electric Fan Controller Version B (http://www.frsport.com/DIF-Universal-Dual-Electric-Fan-Controller-Version-B_p_8173.html)

[louisdaboois]

Autozone carries a fan controller like what Enjuku sells, its a 1/3 of the price but comes with relays, ac override and very easy to install, also has and external fuse and heavy guage wires.

and it also sucks dick. i went through 3 of them where the temp probe just crapped out and caused the fans to never come on. maybe it was just luck of the draw and i got 3 shitty ones in a row (and i know my wiring wasnt the issue), but i dont reccomend temp switches that use a stick that fits in between the fins of the rad.

[mifesto]

maybe u damaged it as u inserted the probe (oh man that sounded gay.. oh well u get the idea) lol

[louisdaboois]

maybe u damaged it as u inserted the probe (oh man that sounded gay.. oh well u get the idea) lol

that did sound gay, lol. but im pretty sure i didnt cause im pretty careful with sticking things in tight places

[mifesto]

im not gonna touch that w/ a 10 ft pole.. or 20... or 30 :)

[g6civcx]

g6civcx, is that 30A relay you used , the fan relay sitting in the fuse box?

I don't have any factory wiring. I use a standard 4-pin 40A relay.

[Bigsyke]

alright man, here is a diagram of exactly how i have my setup wired and everything works great. hope this helps.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1326/fanwiringql8.jpg

I would advise against this. Both fans need 30-40a each. You also need seperate relays for each fan. 5amp fuse on 85 if used on an ignition source. If your taking from 12v just loop 85 and 30. Oh and you need 75a for a normally closed, because electricity will be flowing across 85 and 86.

[g6civcx]

I would advise against this. Both fans need 30-40a each. You also need seperate relays for each fan.

According to FAL, it's ok to run both fans on the same 10AWG wire with a 30A fuse.

I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just saying what the manufacturer recommends.

With electrical stuff though, it's much better to be safe than sorry.

5amp fuse on 85 if used on an ignition source.

Agreed.

If your taking from 12v just loop 85 and 30. Oh and you need 75a for a normally closed, because electricity will be flowing across 85 and 86.

I have no idea what this means.

[mifesto]

just to verify... g6civcx, you arent running any temp probe or from the coolant sensor... only manual switch?

[louisdaboois]

heres my setup:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/Louisdaboois/fanwiringql8.jpg

e double, i was a little confused in what you did with the switch/ light (im guessing).

[g6civcx]

just to verify... g6civcx, you arent running any temp probe or from the coolant sensor... only manual switch?

I have a coolant temp sensor mounted in the head of the engine. The sensor is connected to a Racepak display that also has a built-in fan controller.

I also have a manual switch and an ac switch to turn on the cooling fans.

[g6civcx]

e double, i was a little confused in what you did with the switch/ light (im guessing).

Whenever you hit the switch, current would go to the relay and light bulb at the same time. The light would tell him that the fan is supposedly running.

[Mister.E]

^ basically

I would advise against this. Both fans need 30-40a each. You also need seperate relays for each fan. 5amp fuse on 85 if used on an ignition source. If your taking from 12v just loop 85 and 30. Oh and you need 75a for a normally closed, because electricity will be flowing across 85 and 86.

30-40a each? maybe depending on your fans. mine dont pull that much amperage and this setup works just fine for me, havent had any problems yet. if each fan required that much amperage im pretty sure it would have blown my fuse already.

[Bigsyke]

^ basically



30-40a each? maybe depending on your fans. mine dont pull that much amperage and this setup works just fine for me, havent had any problems yet. if each fan required that much amperage im pretty sure it would have blown my fuse already.


Its not about burning the car to the ground because your running both 12v wires off 1x 30amp fuse. Its when the startup of the fan occurs. Your straining your relays, and durring startup you have a much higher chance of a fuse blowing from drawing too much current. How are you going to pop the hood and check everytime you flip teh switch?

Originally Posted by Bigsyke http://zilvia.net/f/images/zilvia/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/205379-electric-fans-cutting-out-post2211305.html#post2211305)
If your taking from 12v just loop 85 and 30. Oh and you need 75a for a normally closed, because electricity will be flowing across 85 and 86.
I have no idea what this means.
If you have electricity triggering the relay, you want your power wire on 87a. relays wtihout an 87a can just use an 87. Rule of thumb, always use the 87a for power wire if you have it.

[Mister.E]

Its not about burning the car to the ground because your running both 12v wires off 1x 30amp fuse. Its when the startup of the fan occurs. Your straining your relays, and durring startup you have a much higher chance of a fuse blowing from drawing too much current. How are you going to pop the hood and check everytime you flip teh switch?

i am not worried about my car burning to the ground. i used the proper gauge of wiring needed to run my setup without taking a total shit. i dont need to pop my hood because if the fans are working i can hear them running and if the fuse was to blow it would be apparent that something was wrong. not to mention the multitude of gauges that i have to constantly monitor my setup at all times. i know what my temps should be and if i see anything out of the norm i know that i need to check my shit out.


If you have electricity triggering the relay, you want your power wire on 87a. relays wtihout an 87a can just use an 87. Rule of thumb, always use the 87a for power wire if you have it.

maybe the relay that you bought. i bought mine here (in japan) off base and i wired it up exactly how it told me to, just like what is pictured in my diagram.

[khilgers]

so I pulled out the controler and the connections going to the back of it were slightly burnt. Nothing terribly bad, but there is a definate sign that something was not right.

I am going to wire them like the diagram above, but I just looked at flex-a-lite's site and it's says for the 220 model that it will pull 19.5 amp, I would assume that is per fan so would I want to go with a 40amp relay instead?

[Mister.E]

if that current rating is per fan and you pull that much current you may want to run two separate 30A relays. i say 30A relays so you wont be maxing out a 20A relay by pulling 19.5A. you can still use one switch, just splice it to the two relays so they kick on at the same time and have each relay wired like the diagram i made but only controlling one fan instead of two.

[khilgers]

I'm gonna contact FAL tomorrow to verify that info. If it is 19.5A for both fans then I will just run a single 30A relay. If not then I will do 2 seperate relays, splice the switches together so I can run on 1 switch and hopefully put this overheating issue behind me and be ready for DD23!!!

[Mister.E]

good idea man, best to find out exactly what you need before you move forward with this install. also if you dont have an oil cooler already i would really recommend getting one. balancing your oil and water temps will keep your shit really low and you will never have any overheating problems. i have an Earl's Temp-a-cure oil cooler and it helps a lot. i am also putting a SPAL 5.2" puller fan on the oil cooler soon and hopefully that will help keep my temps WAY down at the track.

[g6civcx]

If you have electricity triggering the relay, you want your power wire on 87a. relays wtihout an 87a can just use an 87. Rule of thumb, always use the 87a for power wire if you have it.

Please explain how pins 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a work for a standard relay.

[Bigsyke]

Please explain how pins 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a work for a standard relay.

sorry I think i switched up 87 with 30

[khilgers]

One last thing. The wire going from 85 to the switch; if that is wired to the + battery then the fans will run even with the key out of the ignition, correct? And if I wire them to a ignition source they will only be able to run with the key in and turned to the ON position? What would be a good source to use for the ignition power?

[Mister.E]

yeah that is exactly right. i ran mine directly to the battery. if you want a good ignition source a lot of people use the fuel pump fuse. i personally dont like tapping anything into any part of my fuel system. i have thought about re-doing mine and tapping it into the 12v for the cigarette lighter.

[Bigsyke]

Khilgers you do know the s14 does have an OEM thermo that kicks on @ 203*f. The factory A/C plug has all the wiring. And the blue/green wire in the fan relay1 is grounded @203f. You can TAP that wire to a switch, then a ground to turn it on. This has been the best/failsafe setup I have found for an s14.

[Mister.E]

Khilgers you do know the s14 does have an OEM thermo that kicks on @ 203*f. The factory A/C plug has all the wiring. And the blue/green wire in the fan relay1 is grounded @203f. You can TAP that wire to a switch, then a ground to turn it on. This has been the best/failsafe setup I have found for an s14.

you could do it that way but wiring it into a brand new relay just seems much simpler and reliable to me. to each his own. the relay setup is also very easy to troubleshoot in the event that your fans stop working for some reason or another.