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View Full Version : *Crazy* Engine Runs BEST w/ ignition timing Waaaay off.


MrFairlady
05-15-2008, 06:08 PM
My Motors ignition CAS timing is OFF the charts, But my car RUNS great.
I actually checked and adjusted the timing today w/ a NON adjustable/basic Timing gun (read Further below to see why) and when placed in Perfect Time (15 @ idle) and the car hardly wants to Rev/drive...the Blowoff leaks like Crazy/Sounds like I'm hitting like 20psi coming from the Turbo "sucking" but its STill in Vac when trying to accel & Also "blow's off" w/ hardly and pedal Pressure released like @ 1500rpms.WTF?
Tried adjusting timing w/ TPS in and Drove it (ECU corrected it i guess) AND then unplugged TPS and repeate and it drove the same (granted it STAYED in time unplugging the TPS deal).
When Turning the CAS back to Full Clockwise (timing Off bigtime)...car Accel's and Boosts GREAT w/ No Issues what so ever!

Why would this be?
CAS has never been removed as far as I know and my Motor was UBER Clean..I know because I replaced Every gasket etc ect on it and Bolts 'Popped" like they'd never been removed Ever.GRANTED..the japanese silver Factory tape that lays over the bolts on the CAS was Broke like someone had adjusted this before...but I have had 0 issues w/ this motor.

list of mods:
Redtop SR,stock SMIC,Stock Boost = everything Stock,Heavy throttle Basic Cone intake Filter w/ metal Maf adaptor,HKS SSQ (Vent),Turbo elbow & 3" DP...thats it!

****Heres why i was doing this today***
When i 1st installed my motor and Cranked it up, I thought something was wrong w/ it because it sounded like a lawn mower.Couldn't Figure it out in the beginning...after checking EVERYTHING Thought, "ok I'll see if timing is off" so I spun the C.A.S while car was running and the car sounded better - fully clockwise and the Motor "sounded"as good as I would get. - Turns out it was the gasket between the mani and the turbo and it Sounded Like CHIT!Replaced it and Fixed the issue PERFECTLY.It runs so good I Never really messed w/ CAS again after that (2mnths ago) till today.

Blown240sx
05-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Hmm odd. Have you tried resetting the bse timing then? Set everything to TDC and reinstall the CAS. It sounds like its 180 out on the CAS but if you never touched it thats wierd.

Could be bad CAS? IDK but reset the timing and redo the CAS and see how it does. If still messed up try a new CAS. I dont know if I would risk setting it up 180 just to fix your issue.

slider2828
05-15-2008, 08:53 PM
Timing is off.... Period... This is not normal and not rocket science... CAS is supposed to be in the right place and the timing will be on time. Tear it apart and redo timing chain to tdc and line everything up....

Did you open your motor and drop the chain? If not, just fix it per fsm.

MrFairlady
05-15-2008, 08:58 PM
Timing is off.... Period... This is not normal and not rocket science... CAS is supposed to be in the right place and the timing will be on time. Tear it apart and redo timing chain to tdc and line everything up....

Did you open your motor and drop the chain? If not, just fix it per fsm.
Only the Valve cover,exhaust mani and intake mani has come off my motor.
I broke a Valve cover stud and have a new Cover to put on so I'd planned on re-setting timing once I can do that.

So...am I hurting anything??I guess I have it fully advanced so it would be Misfiring/Backfiring if it was truely Screwed correct.
safe to say I haven't see the Full potential of my motor in stock trim yet..yes?should Be faster Smoother than it already is ocne its taken care of right?

MrFairlady
05-15-2008, 09:52 PM
Now that I think about it I did remove the Crank pulley to replace the Front seal....but Its Notched and only goes on 1 way correct?

no way it could get out of time from that??

JVD
05-15-2008, 09:57 PM
So did you even try re-setting the CAS?

s15specR
05-16-2008, 07:10 AM
Timing is off.... Period... This is not normal and not rocket science... CAS is supposed to be in the right place and the timing will be on time. Tear it apart and redo timing chain to tdc and line everything up....

Did you open your motor and drop the chain? If not, just fix it per fsm.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First thing I would do.

fliprayzin240sx
05-16-2008, 08:35 AM
Now that I think about it I did remove the Crank pulley to replace the Front seal....but Its Notched and only goes on 1 way correct?

no way it could get out of time from that??

My question is when front cover was off, what else was off the car? Did you take the timing chain tensioner off? Its possible that your mechanical timing could be off by a tooth too if you took the cover off. Basically theres a divot on the front cover that holds the chain in place against the crank gear. Without the cover and the tensioner off/loose, theres a chance that you could get enough slack that chain jumped a tooth or 2. So start off with that and double check that its good. Pray to god that the chain marks line up to everything...cuz that will make it soooo much more easier...


Here's a guide just in case you need it for the CAS... (http://www.frsport.com/How%20To%20Set%20Crank%20Angle%20Sensor%20%28CAS%2 9%20Timing%20on%20the%20SR20DET%20Engine_t_25.html )

This one is for the Mechanical Timing...count the chains for and make sure its at TDC (http://www.frsport.com/Installing-Tomei-Poncams-on-S13-SR20DET_t_35.html)

MrFairlady
05-16-2008, 09:55 AM
My question is when front cover was off, what else was off the car? Did you take the timing chain tensioner off? Its possible that your mechanical timing could be off by a tooth too if you took the cover off. Basically theres a divot on the front cover that holds the chain in place against the crank gear. Without the cover and the tensioner off/loose, theres a chance that you could get enough slack that chain jumped a tooth or 2. So start off with that and double check that its good. Pray to god that the chain marks line up to everything...cuz that will make it soooo much more easier...


Here's a guide just in case you need it for the CAS... (http://www.frsport.com/How%20To%20Set%20Crank%20Angle%20Sensor%20%28CAS%2 9%20Timing%20on%20the%20SR20DET%20Engine_t_25.html )

This one is for the Mechanical Timing...count the chains for and make sure its at TDC (http://www.frsport.com/Installing-Tomei-Poncams-on-S13-SR20DET_t_35.html)

Cool thanks.The front cover was never off.My motor was BONE stock & VERY VERY Clean and even the Stock Clutch was still on it.
The upper T-chain guard (that normally break or people removed TSIB were still there) is still on it.Tensioner was never removed either.ALl I did was replace almost ever little gasket (throttle & IAC gas,intake gas,exh,gas,turbo gask,valve cover,front and rear main seals,Water Pump and thats about it) EXCEPT the headgasket.I did not replace it or disturb anything there.

didn't tear the motor down.I hope everythings cool.Car RUNS Beautifully but just curious on WHY it would be?

fliprayzin240sx
05-16-2008, 07:23 PM
Read thru those guides and double check the timing anyways. Either way youll have to pop the valve cover off anyways to make sure the CAS is aligned properly. While its off, you might as well double check the mechanical timing by putting it on TDC and counting the chains...

MrFairlady
05-18-2008, 12:10 PM
Ok guys,..Pulled a spark plug the other day and they are White tipped.hmmm.
Pulled the valve cover and now i have it @ TDC (I believe).My engine (Gen 2 redtop) only has 1 dark Link on the pass side cam...not a dark one on the other....but its 2nd mark from the left side on Crank pulley and both dots are where they should be 10 & 12 Per FRSPORT.didn't try the ol' Rachet extension in the spark plug hole to find TDC deal.
There is 10 links from link to link *COUNTING: the link after the dark link (pass side cam) to the other cam dot as per FRSPORT Tomei Cam install-same way they counted them.
So Mech TIME is on...just I guess CAS is off.:bite:
scared to actually pull the CAS out.

Now If My motor was in time would the CAS colored "Dots" (which i don't see yet) already be lined up Now,or they will be off Correct?

So once I get it corrected w/ the CAS...do I go ahead and unplug the TPS and time if from there...or crank it up normally and let it run for a bit/Warm...then Turn off & dis connect TPS and Time w/ the gun then?

Blown240sx
05-18-2008, 05:16 PM
The CAS has two marks one close and one away. I forget exactly which one to set it to. But when you install it the CAS should rotate to line up with the other mark.

slider2828
05-19-2008, 11:31 PM
Line up gold then it will slide over to 2nd mark. GOod luck

MrFairlady
05-20-2008, 07:09 AM
Did you see my other thread that has pic's of my CAS?

I tried to take it out but it didn't want to budge...so I took pic's and someone said theres looked the same & that it was on.It would leave me to believe that its NEver been out if it was that hard to remove.I kinda pulled on it and there was no movement.
so your saying I am out on the CAS??

Def
05-25-2008, 08:27 PM
The CAS has an o-ring the seals on the block, so it'll give some resistance.

Stab the CAS and use a timing light with a piece of plug wire coming out of the first coilpack like the FSM states. Don't use the loop on the coilpack, I've seen all sorts of issues with that.

Stabbing it correctly will get you within a degree or two though. My CAS is actually a little counter-clockwise of center when at 15 deg(verified via consult readout compared to timing light on number 1 coilpack via spark plug wire) - so it doesn't necessarily need to be dead center.

MrFairlady
05-25-2008, 10:16 PM
verified via consult readout compared to timing light on number 1 coilpack via spark plug wire

I Verified my CAS is right AGAIN (after replacing a broken valve cover stud).
What program can I use for my Consult - I wired it up just don't have and idea how?

1st plug is the FRONT Coil correct?

now why wouldn't the Wire in the back work..I've heard of other people saying that also, so I did get a SR20DE (G20) Plug wire and Plan to time it like that method.

So Do you just Hook them (Plug wire-to-SR coil) up and lay the wires and stuff over the valve cover while doing it or what?