Will a Q45 rear sway bar fit an S13?

[Fred Allen Burge]

I have a J30 rear sway bar available as well as a Q45 bar. Will the Q bar even fit and does anyone know if it would even be better than the J bar?

Thanks,
Fred

[racepar1]

As far as weather or not either one is better:
1- How thick are they?
2- Does one bar have more bends in it than the other?
3- How does the number of bends in the stock 240 bar compare to the j-30 and q-45 bars?
This is not rocket science man, it is just common sense! A thicker bar is stiffer. The bar loses strength with every bend. Whichever one has the least bends with the biggest diameter is the strongest. If you are setting up your car for grip then there is no real reason to get a thicker bar. Most grip guys either run stock rear sway or none at all.

[Fred Allen Burge]

If you are setting up your car for grip then there is no real reason to get a thicker bar. Most grip guys either run stock rear sway or none at all.

Thanks for the info man, didn't know that. I don't know much about setting up a car for racing I just thought for a street car bigger stiffer bars helped a lot to keep the car from leaning over in turns. Not true? Why do they make larger diameter aftermarket rear bars then?

Fred

[g6civcx]

If you are setting up your car for grip then there is no real reason to get a thicker bar.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Suspension is highly dependent on the overall car setup and driving style.

[projectRDM]

Q45 bar is too long, the car is much wider. The J30 bar bolts to an S14, but I don't think it's long enough for an S13.

[ill_concepts]

If you are setting up your car for grip then there is no real reason to get a thicker bar. Most grip guys either run stock rear sway or none at all.

I dont think agree with that either. I dont grip but wouldnt that result in crazy body roll?

[jilo]

it would make you rely on spring rate and damping to get rid of body roll.

[racepar1]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Suspension is highly dependent on the overall car setup and driving style.

You are correct about every driver and car being different. The reason you don't need a big rear sway bar has to do with the geoetry of the rear suspension. 240's have a hard time with rear grip under acceleration. This is mostly due to the stupid amounts of anti-squat engineered into the rear suspension (especially s-13's). This causes the car to transition to on-throttle oversteer very easily, that's why their such good drift cars. A small or no rear sway bar is a band-aid to try to help this problem. The real solution is relocating the RLCA mounting points on the subframe

I dont think agree with that either. I dont grip but wouldnt that result in crazy body roll?

The front sway bar has a lot more to do with overall body roll than the rear. As long as you have coilovers, even shitty ones, you will not end up with "stupid" body roll, even with no sway bars at all, as the springs should be stiff enough to control the body roll for the most part.

[driftyour40]

I have/had ST sways on my car, and with stock suspension they were great, when I got coilovers I had to take the rear bar out to do any kind of aggressive grip driving. Also I noticed the bend in the bar would hit the gas tank figured that wasn’t such a good thing.

[Fred Allen Burge]

when I got coilovers I had to take the rear bar out to do any kind of aggressive grip driving.

Sorry but why exactly did you have to take it out? Was it just too stiff with the coilovers there so you were sliding around too much, basically too much oversteer?

Thanks,
Fred

[Fred Allen Burge]

Q45 bar is too long, the car is much wider. The J30 bar bolts to an S14, but I don't think it's long enough for an S13.

Thank you, now I can stop thinking about the Q bar. If I get time I'll pull the J bar off the parts car and compare it to my S13 bar.

BTW, what have you been working on lately? Still have that ultra clean red S14 or have you moved on to something else? I've been wondering what project you've got going on..

Fred

[projectRDM]

Thank you, now I can stop thinking about the Q bar. If I get time I'll pull the J bar off the parts car and compare it to my S13 bar.

BTW, what have you been working on lately? Still have that ultra clean red S14 or have you moved on to something else? I've been wondering what project you've got going on..

Fred

Same car, hasn't been touched in a year. No time, no desire. I hate cars.

[McRussellPants]

This causes the car to transition to on-throttle oversteer very easily, that's why their such good drift cars.

That must be why S15 subframe swap is so popular for drift cars.



wait what?

[racepar1]

That must be why S15 subframe swap is so popular for drift cars.



wait what?

GTFO you fucking faggot piece of shit! You have nothing constructive to add so shut up! Drift cars are built by stupid faggots like you (for the most part) that couldn't even spell anti-squat much less understand it. You have proven that steers and queers are not the only things coming from texas, idiots come from there too! Wait, George Bush beat you to it! This is disturbing, you are following me around the fucking forums specifically to argue with me! Get a fucking life!

[McRussellPants]

Thats nice that you have to lash out like that instead of attempting to prove me wrong.

It probably has something to do with you not knowing anything about drift cars and probably a little from the column B of me having a drift car that would wreck your car around a road course =/.

yeah so don't think so highly of yourself to think I'm following you around. If you want me to stop making you look like an asshat all over the place stop posting bullshit you make up thinking noone knows any better to call you out.

[smelly240]

im still amazed that koguchi uses no front swaybar.

i have thought of trying it.

[racepar1]

Thats nice that you have to lash out like that instead of attempting to prove me wrong.

It probably has something to do with you not knowing anything about drift cars and probably a little from the column B of me having a drift car that would wreck your car around a road course =/.

yeah so don't think so highly of yourself to think I'm following you around. If you want me to stop making you look like an asshat all over the place stop posting bullshit you make up thinking noone knows any better to call you out.

Tow your pansy ass drift car out to cali and we'll put it to the track! Untill you are willing to do that you have nothing to say about how "fast" your pathetic drift bucket is. You know nothing about race cars yourself! You're right I am not the drift set-up master, but I do understand the basics of suspension geometry which can be universally applied. Actually I DO have some inside info on the set-ups on a couple formula drift cars. I could never convince you that you are wrong. I have provided undisputable arguments to wreck your shaky arguments in other threads and you will not admit that you are wrong! I have given up on you, nothing can wash the bullshit from your mind. I think that is is hilarious that you are have mocked my lack of paint and my fno1r-c's! Your car has "good" paint and dope wheels right? That's good for you! But then why do you still have the stock blown out bushings in your rear uprights? Ya, you're WAY better off than me! As far as the subframe issue, yes the s-15 rear subframes have less anti-squat engineered into them. I'm not sure why you say that swap is popular for drifting, as I understand it the grip guys are the ones doing it. Also most people who do the swap most likely only know that somebody told them that it was better, not why it is better or what it is better for. Anti-squat helps the car transition to on throttle oversteer more quickly, that is absolutely un-disputable. And that handling characteristic of all s-chasis cars is one of the main reasons that they are such good drift cars, which is also un-disputable. Could reducing the amount of anti-squat on the s-13's (which came with by far the most of any of the s-chasis) be beneficial in some ways for drifting? Absolutely! I never said that less anti-squat would absolutely not help drifters. You were not attempting to provide any info so don't get all high and mighty with me about taking petty stabs at someone. You did the same thing to me in the last thread you followed me to and you did it again here. I get it you don't agree with me and you never will! It doesn't matter if I hold the record at every single track in the country and have built the next 3 cars behind me, you will never admit that I am right about anything. You are the typical drifter dumbass and there is nothing anyone can do about it! I'm fine with that. But you do not seem fine with the fact that I am the typical anal retentive, super attention to even the most mundane detail, completely ignore the way my car looks, car geek, grassroots motorsports, road racing enthusiast. I have spent more time at more tracks working on real race cars than anyone that I know of here on zilvia, and I loved every second of it.

[McRussellPants]

lol at inside info. yeah, its called ziptied.

Heres the pro tip.

Everyone takes the anti out of drift cars because its unpredictable on IRS cars. Anti on a solid axle reacts to torque input into the axle. meaning as long as you keep your foot to the floor theres anti there supplying more grip, which is one of the very few highlights of the corrola. IRS the Anti is Dependant on traction. meaning it the anti will give you more grip until it lets loose and then your done. hence you saying theres a sharper transition to oversteer, which is generally not wanted if you won't have the grip out back to stop the rotation.

You assume I know nothing and my car is slow because Im a drifter. Meanwhile I've worked at a shop specifically suppling 240SX suspension, I probably run more tire than you, I run more horsepower than you. I run a stiffer chassis than you. You can convince yourself that because you have ES (har har, good 10$ buy) your more attentive to detail. your car is still slow as fuck, but you can make the internet think your cool by posting a time nobody has any idea if its fast or not from some driver education day.

have fun with your stock car with 200$ in bushings in it. Im sure its a whole barrel of laughs for the Vettes to fly by.

What would you even do if I accepted that call out of yours and brought a set of Hoosiers with me to ASB and stayed an extra day. God I'd probaby shit my drawers laughing.

[thejapino]

Well, I guess back on topic,

G50 Q45t rear bar = 15.9mm
G50 Q45a rear bar = 20mm

In case anyone was curious

[racepar1]

lol at inside info. yeah, its called ziptied.

Heres the pro tip.

Everyone takes the anti out of drift cars because its unpredictable on IRS cars. Anti on a solid axle reacts to torque input into the axle. meaning as long as you keep your foot to the floor theres anti there supplying more grip, which is one of the very few highlights of the corrola. IRS the Anti is Dependant on traction. meaning it the anti will give you more grip until it lets loose and then your done. hence you saying theres a sharper transition to oversteer, which is generally not wanted if you won't have the grip out back to stop the rotation.

You assume I know nothing and my car is slow because Im a drifter. Meanwhile I've worked at a shop specifically suppling 240SX suspension, I probably run more tire than you, I run more horsepower than you. I run a stiffer chassis than you. You can convince yourself that because you have ES (har har, good 10$ buy) your more attentive to detail. your car is still slow as fuck, but you can make the internet think your cool by posting a time nobody has any idea if its fast or not from some driver education day.

have fun with your stock car with 200$ in bushings in it. Im sure its a whole barrel of laughs for the Vettes to fly by.

What would you even do if I accepted that call out of yours and brought a set of Hoosiers with me to ASB and stayed an extra day. God I'd probaby shit my drawers laughing.

First of all horsepower doesn't necessarily make your car any faster unless you have a properly tuned suspension, chasis, and brake system to control all that power. I've told you before if you wanna know what I'm running I have a VB pic gallery, you don't! You assume that I think my ES bushings in my uprights are the shit! I don't! They are great for temporary use untill I get around to the next round of suspension upgrades, but that is all. The fact that you run stock blown out bushings and don't give a fuck about it tells me that your attention to detail is pathetic! People who do not have very good attention to detail do not build really fast cars, because that is where the real speed is, in the details. Cool you work at a company that sells 240 suspension! Good for you! I guess labeling and stacking boxes suddenly makes you qualified. I bet you work for SPL, that would explain why you are so god damn gay for their products. If you came out with hoosiers, so would I. At HTM or the SOWS I would have a pretty good damn chance of owning your ass. If we both brought our cars in their current spec I would probably own you too, due to your lack of sticky rubber. I doubt you run more tire than me by the way. I currently have 255 width azenis and for my next set I am going with 275 width NT01's. I got the azenis for WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too good of a deal to pass up, but in hindsight I should have gone with 255 width NT01's to start with.

EDIT: This is the second or third thread that we have fucked up with this bullshit bickering. From now on if either of us have anything personal to say about the other we should do it via PM. Luckily this thread wasn't really worth much in the first place.

[Def]

ES Bushings are pretty much garbage on anything that needs to pivot. I've got them in my front control arms for lack of any other affordable solution up there, but I'm making spherical bearings for all the rear upright pivots.

[racepar1]

ES Bushings are pretty much garbage on anything that needs to pivot. I've got them in my front control arms for lack of any other affordable solution up there, but I'm making spherical bearings for all the rear upright pivots.

Indeed sir! I will probably make my own shit as well when I get around to putting bearings back there. Maybe this fall.

[DarkPhoenix]

EDIT: This is the second or third thread that we have fucked up with this bullshit bickering. From now on if either of us have anything personal to say about the other we should do it via PM. Luckily this thread wasn't really worth much in the first place.


I would love to see an all out battle between you guys. Too bad he's not a premie, cuz you can set up the "bicker" thread. I like to see what everyone has to say.

OT: What set up do you have in your car, exactly? I plan on AutoXing and RoadRace in my car. Maybe even run in NASA TTS in the car. I am just looking for some input on what other people run.

[Fred Allen Burge]

Same car, hasn't been touched in a year. No time, no desire. I hate cars.

I hear ya, I went through that too, sold off all of my good stuff to the 4 corners of the world. I'm back now and feeling refreshed after a year or so off and ready to create again.

Fred

[altalti]

I know this is a little off topic but since there is suspension knowledge in this thread can someone pm so i can ask them a few questions on how to correct my horrible oversteer problems in my s14. small bit of info on the car in coils and an alignment geared towards daily driving but i hate it when i go autocrossing.

i.e. (racepar1 please)

[McRussellPants]

ES Bushings are pretty much garbage on anything that needs to pivot. I've got them in my front control arms for lack of any other affordable solution up there, but I'm making spherical bearings for all the rear upright pivots.

you can buy those. lol.

racepar please god don't send me another PM, they're so pathetic.

[racepar1]

you can buy those. lol.

You can make them for less and you can choose whatever bearings you want.

racepar please god don't send me another PM, they're so pathetic.

Look dude we just need to keep the bickering off the forums. The topic that you chose to argue with me about this time has nothing at all to do with the thread, you should have PMed me. Then we can argue to our heart's content. I guess you are after the glory of arguing in public, I am not. Especially when it has nothing to do with the thread. If you wanna bicker PM me, if you don't wanna Pm me then STFU! As I will do now.
:mrmeph: