Car will not start, fast clicking of many relays... please help

[stinky_180]

on tuesday, my daily driver's alternator died. so i went ahead and used my 240 which runs great. it started up perfectly fine this morning. well i was going to grab some lunch but when i tried to start the car, all these relays started to click! like rapid fire click. i hear relays clicking from under the dash and in the engine bay. i checked all the fuses and i found two blown from the interior fuse box (right column, very top, 2x 20a). i replaced the fuses and the clicking was still there. i have interior lightning, turn signals, brake lights, headlights, all working. the CEL light is on with the car in the on position, so the ecu is getting power. i checked the ecu for codes and came up with 55 (nothing at fault). i checked battery voltage and it is at 12.44. i can hear the fuel pump priming. i checked wiring at the starter and everything is connected. when i have the cluch depressed and try starting, nothing happens. but as soon as i push in the clutch pedal, all the relays start to click. i looked at all the grounds and everything is connected. would anybody here happen to give me any tips?

[nissanguy13]

starter or your the safety switch behind the clutch pedal. It's also possible that your bad alternator destroyed your battery. You can have a good volt reading and have bad amperage

[johngriff]

Bad ground.

Length.

[stinky_180]

starter or your the safety switch behind the clutch pedal. It's also possible that your bad alternator destroyed your battery. You can have a good volt reading and have bad amperage

i replaced the started about 3 months ago with a re-manufactured unit from kragen. i believe the clutch interlock switch and relay is working. mainly because it does complete the circuit after pushing the clutch pedal in all the way, hence the car trying to start but instead making a bunch of clicking noise. i tested my alternator a few days ago using consult and the battery voltage was at 14.5.

[stinky_180]

Bad ground.

Length.

i checked continuity for the battery negative battery terminal and on an unpainted surface on the chassis and it was a stable reading.

[johngriff]

Do the same test from the positive terminal to the bolted wire on the starter. See if its the battery connections.

[stinky_180]

Do the same test from the positive terminal to the bolted wire on the starter. See if its the battery connections.

alright so i checked continuity from the positive battery terminal to the starter motor, there is continuity.

another thing i just found out. it isn't many relays as i thought it was. i had the door open and was standing outside. i pressed the clutch pedal all the way in and attempted to start the car again. it sounds like there is only one relay that is making the rapid fire clicking. i looked at the relay box closes to the battery and noticed 3 relays. i do not have the relay/fuse box cover on so i do not know what relays are what (does anybody have a picture of the cover?). there are two relays that are the same color and another one its own color. i swapped the two relays that are the same color and the same thing happens, rapid fire clicking). this leads me to believe that the other relay is at fault. does anybody know what the relay this relay is?

[johngriff]

Is the starter cranking?

[stinky_180]

Is the starter cranking?

no the starter is not cranking, whenever i try to turn the car on (ignition on start position) that one relay clicks.

i connected consult to the work laptop and everything looks normal... except for one value. the aac value is at 0%. i know for sures that the aac value used to be something, but not 0%. this is with the car in the on position (can't start the car still)

[Viggs]

I did a CA swap in my buddies car last year and it was doing that same clicking when we went to start it for the first time. It turned out that we forgot to tighten the bolt that holds that huge connector to the ECU. Once we did that, no more clicking and a running engine is what we had.

[stinky_180]

I did a CA swap in my buddies car last year and it was doing that same clicking when we went to start it for the first time. It turned out that we forgot to tighten the bolt that holds that huge connector to the ECU. Once we did that, no more clicking and a running engine is what we had.

i swapped ecus with a known working one and same problem. i was also successful in connecting the laptop with consult so that eliminates the issues of the eccs harness connector

[johngriff]

Try jumping the blue relay in the battery area wiring, that is the clutch interlock/safety relay (actually i think i forgot the name). Basically it lets the starter get power when the clutch is depressed.

[stinky_180]

Try jumping the blue relay in the battery area wiring, that is the clutch interlock/safety relay (actually i think i forgot the name). Basically it lets the starter get power when the clutch is depressed.

i will try that in just a second.

[stinky_180]

Try jumping the blue relay in the battery area wiring, that is the clutch interlock/safety relay (actually i think i forgot the name). Basically it lets the starter get power when the clutch is depressed.

alright so i checked out the clutch interlock/safety relay thing. theres two harness connectors connected to it, each having two wires. the relay is big and blue just like you said. im going to try to jump it with paper clips and see what happens.

[stinky_180]

alright so this is what i did regarding that blue relay next to the battery

1. i disconnected the two harness connectors from it and removed the relay. i then attempted to start the car again and there was no relay clicking.

2. i jumped the harness connectors using two paper clips. the way i jumped it is this....

i can't really make a picture of it with text but i will try

this represents the terminals on the connector : :
each dot represent a terminal and each : represent the harness connector
the way i jumped it was like this
:=:

i had it jumped that way and when i tried to start, there was a faint relay click and it went away. i can not hear the starter clicking or anything.

so then i took out the jumpers and i connected the relay again. i attempted to start the car and there was no clicking at all! i can sorta hear the starter clicking, like its getting some power.

so i took the relay off again and jumped it and there was no noise from starter area and no noise from relays.

so i remove the jumpers and attempted to start. i heard one faint click of a relay.

i then put the interlock relay back on and now that rapid fire relay click is back.

my question is though do i need to jump the wires the other way around? as in
. .
| |
. .

[johngriff]

the large plug, pin to pin. should be it.

[stinky_180]

another quick update:

so i looked at the diagram on the blue relay and the only terminals i need to jump are the top two. so i did that and attempted to start the car without pushing the clutch. when i put the car on the start position, i heard a relay clicking (it wasn't as loud or as fast as the before). i checked voltage and it is still 12.4. i removed the jumper and connected the relay. i pushed in the clutch and tried to start the clutch and then the rapid clicking came back. so it seems like there are two relays at fault, interlock relay and and some other one.

can someone show me a picture of the relay box cover? that would really help

[rx72relax]

Try to find the power source for the clutch relay on the harness going to the pedel. Jump it to the other source harness one wire at a time. While trying to statr the car. You can also try to test the starter by leving the key in the on position. and jumping the starter with a screwdriver power to ground that will send direct power to the starter and make the car start. If that works. Than you will probably need to chaneg the ballister. that should fix the problem.

[stinky_180]

this is so troublesome :(. both my cars are down and it looks like i wont be going on my vegas trip for the weekend.

it seems like i have narrowed down the problem to being a broken or faulty relay in the relay box in the engine bay as that is the only one clicking. i need a picture of that fusebox cover to see if that is infact the problem

[stinky_180]

alright, guys so i think i narrowed down the problem. i was at work yesterday and all my co-workers had left so i couldn't get a helping hand. until my friend showed up and picked me up. i had him attempt to start the car so i can feel what area or relay was making that horrible rapid fire clicking noise. first, i jumped the interlock relay switch just like johngriff has mention (big plug, terminal to terminal). then i had my friend start the car. the rapid clicking noise was actually comming from the starter! it seems like the starter is hitting the flywheel and can not make contact with the teeth. i have never heard a starter do this before, i usually hear the starter make just one click, but not rapid fire clicking. i also put the relay back in and the the same thing happened, except i can feel the relay clicking fast as well (is this normal)?

[dftsilvia]

do you have power at the starter? maybe your ring gear on the flywheel is shot. does the clicking noise just happen when u try and start it or does it do it as soon as u turn the key on?

also if its manual tranny did u try pop starting it at least to see if it will even fire up? if it fires when u pop start it you prolly have a bad starter/ring gear

[stinky_180]

do you have power at the starter? maybe your ring gear on the flywheel is shot. does the clicking noise just happen when u try and start it or does it do it as soon as u turn the key on?

also if its manual tranny did u try pop starting it at least to see if it will even fire up? if it fires when u pop start it you prolly have a bad starter/ring gear

as mentioned in the above post, there is continuity between positive battery terminal and bolted wire on starter. there is 12.4v from bolted wired on starter to unpainted metal surface on chassis. the clicking noise happens when you put the car in "start" position.

yes it is a manual tranny, that is why i have mentioned the clutch interlock relay/safety switch.

so i canceled my vegas trip so i can get both my cars fixed this weekend. today, i will be going back to the office to attempt to fix the 240. here is a list of things i will be doing.
1. had the starter with a baseball bat a few times
2. use a remote start gun directly to the starter and try starting it remotely.
3. have my friend help me pop-start the car

if all of those fails i will be getting the car towed. what sucks though is that this starter is brand fucking new! it doesn't make sense that the starter is clicking fast more than once. usually the starter needs to just move out, toward the flywheel and spin it. it is not suppose to move back and fourth rapidly. if the car starts with the remove gun, then i will know for sures it is wiring. wish me luck fellas!

if anybody here has any tips, clues, answers, please post away. it sucks working in the rain.

[Ragnarok043]

i dont know if it helps but i had a similar problem a couple months back. starter wont turn over and a rapid clicking relay, except that it was clicking without the key in the ignition. i located the noise from under the intake manifold then grabbed the wire harness and wiggled it. the clicking stopped and the engine started fine.

[stinky_180]

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerofile/21907/000_0168.JPG

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/stinky180/5076bd60.jpg

here is the fuse box cover and starting system diagram for those that need pictures. the 'W' wires going to the fuse box.... does it go to the IGN SW fuse? there is also no clicking coming from any of those relays.

[nismo_drifter]

okay i dont know what engine u have but i had this same problem on my kade...when i went to turn it over all i heard was clicking noises from the fuse box and i could also hear my fuel pump...i checked for corrosion at the battery terminals and then i checked my ignitor and there was a loose plug, the smaller square one towards the fender, since then its been running great...check it out might be the same problem if ur rockin the ka, if not wires are loose try swiching it out...

[Tenchuu]

hey did the problem start soon after your new starter? is it a KA24DE?
read this:http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=95170&highlight=starter

Mine was a reman that came from schucks or kragen and it was binner than the oem. eventually it grounded out and this happened:
check this:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/Tenchuuk/starter2.jpg

[stinky_180]

^. it is a ka24e. that metal hose i believe is from the a/c system. i have removed the entire a/c system from the engine bay. when i installed the starter a few months ago, there was a metal bracket but it wasn't close to the starter power wire.

update: i got my daily driver fixed and headed back to my office to push start it. i tried first gear and it didn't work. second gear and it fired right up. so this leads me to believe that the starter is faulty (piece of shit kragen). i have the old starter from before so i will swap and see what happens.

thanks a lot everyone from the tips! i really appreciate it.

[fueled by hate]

hit that cheap ass kragen starter with a hammer then try to start it.

[stinky_180]

i tried that on friday with no luck

[johngriff]

Did you try jumping the starter directly? Sending 12v Direct to spade blade on the start to see if it will turn? It still sounds like electrical to me.

John

[S-Nation S13]

try looking at the relay near the batter the blue one...o wait it this car a manual...that was my problem i forgot the relay name but ill check fsm for ya

[johngriff]

We already addressed it (that is probably the issue), its called the clutch interlock relay. S13's should be breaking these since about two years ago, since they are exposed to the elements, the cases and internals like to weather.

[stinky_180]

i tried to send a direct 12v volts via a remote starter gun on friday. i connected one wire to the bolted wire on the starter, and the other to the positive battery terminal. i clicked the remote start gun and nothing happened. am i connecting it right? i also jumped the clutch interlock relay/safety switch as well.

[johngriff]

jump the bolted wire bolt (just on the post) to the spade push on connector.

When you jumped the relay it didn't go?

[stinky_180]

when i jumped the relay previously, i had somebody crank the car while i was outside. i heard the fast rapid clicking noise coming from under the intake manifold. i felt around and the rapid fire clicking noise was actually come from the starter itself. i can feel it banging against something. i tried hitting the starter and it didn't work. this is with the relay there and jumped.

i will try jumping fromt he bolted wire to the single push in wire later today.

[nissanguy13]

Did you try jumping the starter directly? Sending 12v Direct to spade blade on the start to see if it will turn? It still sounds like electrical to me.

John

Hmm that sounds familiar, if more than one person says it you might want to try it lol

[stinky_180]

well i figured out the problem. the ignition switch is faulty. i had a spare laying around and tried it out and it starts up every time. i tried the old switch and the problem came back. thanks everyone for helping me out.