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Addicted2Kouki
02-12-2008, 03:49 AM
Anyone ever try a rear mounted turbo?
I know domestic v8 guys do it.
http://images.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0502_turbo_13_z.jpg
http://images.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0502_turbo_02_z.jpg

I would imagine more lag for our cars
...but does anyone have any info on it?

e1_griego
02-12-2008, 03:53 AM
Considering all the conventionally mounted turbo options, there doesn't seem to be much point for an s-chassis. I'd be concerned driving around a low s13 with turbo shit hanging out by the ground, anyway haha.

Alex

Ace Callaway
02-12-2008, 03:54 AM
Jesus, I've never seen that in my life. I wonder if the power being produced is the same with a traditional turbo. BTW, does that have any benefit oppose to putting it in the front?

Addicted2Kouki
02-12-2008, 03:57 AM
I would imagine the only benefit is keeping the engine bay looking stock.
that and maybe the fact that sometimes you dont even need an intercooler.

but its flaws probably would be trying to put together the piping and a slammed s-chassis.
or trying to locate a boost leak.
plus more pipes to fill = more lag.

D1GP
02-12-2008, 03:59 AM
i believe since american cars have bigger motors, there is less room under the hood, and that is why they resort to the rear mount turbo.

would be stupid pointless for an s-chassis though. more lag and if you hit a puddle you're fucked.

Kn1ves
02-12-2008, 04:00 AM
Theres supposedly no noticeable turbo lag from that set up even though theres a ton of piping. It wasn't some hack job.

Benefits would probably be, lower temp at the hood.. passing visual inspection...

Cons would be.. tons of additional piping/weight which can be countered by more power

actually since most of the piping is in the length of the car and not in the front, it wont be worse than an fmic

Addicted2Kouki
02-12-2008, 04:07 AM
interesting points you make there.

89singlecamnoob
02-12-2008, 04:22 AM
i remember seeing this done to a corvette on some Speed channel program...distributed the weight better (however minimal that might be), they didn't need an intercooler, and basically kept the engine bay less crowded. seems silly, and it certainly wouldn't work on some of your guys' cars...constantly worrying about scraping more than just aero on that speed bump :(

Koopa Troopa
02-12-2008, 04:50 AM
It wouldn't be worth the effort on a 4 cylinder powered S chassis car. It's possible on V8's considering the exhaust flow of such engines. Your 1998cc motor isn't going to produce enough exhaust flow to spool that thing at a decent RPM..

Other than being cool there's really no reason to do it. Can you imagine trying to run 90mm intake piping through an S chasis? :rofl:

Actually looking at that setup it seems like a cheap way for V8 guys to run a single turbo...

Kn1ves
02-12-2008, 04:56 AM
It wouldn't be worth the effort on a 4 cylinder powered S chassis car. It's possible on V8's considering the exhaust flow of such engines. Your 1998cc motor isn't going to produce enough exhaust flow to spool that thing at a decent RPM..

Other than being cool there's really no reason to do it. Can you imagine trying to run 90mm intake piping through an S chasis? :rofl:

Actually looking at that setup it seems like a cheap way for V8 guys to run a single turbo...

it is something to consider for the V8 240sx guys.. maybe even for the VQ

g6civcx
02-12-2008, 05:44 AM
Guys, this is STS Turbo territory: http://www.ststurbo.com/

They've invested a lot of money in this technology and hold several patents on it: http://www.ststurbo.com/patent

Patents are here if you're interested:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=bWUQAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,745,568
http://www.google.com/patents?id=bW57AAAAEBAJ&dq=7,134,282


It's a good way to keep the engine bay clean. That's their whole rationale for designing this system.

If you're going to design your own system make sure you understand the extent of their patent coverage and don't infringe. STS is very aggressive with their patent enforcement.

02-12-2008, 07:30 AM
Considering all the conventionally mounted turbo options, there doesn't seem to be much point for an s-chassis. I'd be concerned driving around a low s13 with turbo shit hanging out by the ground, anyway haha.

Alex
I think this is true. However, I am good friends with Brent Grigsby who owned the blue GTO about half way down on this page... http://www.ststurbo.com/fast_customers
That car was SICK. I remember him telling me that he rolled up on two guys that were racing each other, 1 in a supra, and the other on some insane bike, and he passed both of them before they knew what was happening. LOL

jrmiller84
02-12-2008, 08:23 AM
God forbid you drive the car through a deep puddle of water during a rainstorm considering where the intake is located...

nevaland9
02-12-2008, 08:53 AM
heres a video of a Z with that kit..it sounds pretty crazy..the whole sleeper look gets thrown out of the window once you drive by someone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z47z7OCHti8

McRussellPants
02-12-2008, 09:08 AM
total dildos.


STS still trys to pass off the super 60 as a sellable turbo so they can pretend to be "engineers" all they want.

brndck
02-12-2008, 09:28 AM
the first article i read about sts, they were claiming that since the turbo is after the catalytic converter, that it would somehow be exempt from carb and therefore street legal. i lol'ed when i read that.

bloodangels13
02-12-2008, 09:47 AM
Im all about the APS TT kits..... my dad wants to get the c6 vette kit or comaro kit and mod it to work with our 69 firebird when we drop in the ls6
http://www.airpowersystems.com/corvette/c6_3_4_f_eng.jpg
http://www.airpowersystems.com/corvette/under2.jpg

Risu2112
02-12-2008, 09:52 AM
I lol'ed

Visual inspection ALWAYS includes a through examination of your exhaust piping! Also yes more piping = more lag, any one that says otherwise has failed physics and should not be giving advice on the subject.

UNISA JECS
02-12-2008, 10:04 AM
I'd be worried about something in the road hitting the turbo and the oil return since the turbo is only a gravity drain more less.

i need tires
02-12-2008, 10:28 AM
wow i think im the only one that was thinking this... but how about dont SLAM your car if you have this type of set up lol

but i see a lot of these set ups on trucks, which is perfect cause ur engine bay isnt cluttered, no intercooler needed, and in most trucks u can run a huge ass turbo under there with no problems.

i like the rear mount set up. i would love to run it on my truck some day!

ripnbst
02-12-2008, 11:07 AM
These are better suited for people who are more into drag racing, seems lots of 240 people myself included are about response and overall street performance.

ILoveJDM
02-12-2008, 11:17 AM
It wouldn't be worth the effort on a 4 cylinder powered S chassis car. It's possible on V8's considering the exhaust flow of such engines. Your 1998cc motor isn't going to produce enough exhaust flow to spool that thing at a decent RPM..


i must be missing something here, because isnt that how a normal turbo setup works anyways, spooled by exhaust gases..

i need tires
02-12-2008, 11:26 AM
i must be missing something here, because isnt that how a normal turbo setup works anyways, spooled by exhaust gases..

he is talking about a 2.0 or even a 2.4L engine wont be able to produce enough gases to spin a turbo that is 4ft away from the exhaust source compared to when the manifold is right up against the head.

tknbkthrsdy4anfg
02-12-2008, 11:27 AM
i must be missing something here, because isnt that how a normal turbo setup works anyways, spooled by exhaust gases..

Yes you are, the turbo is located a few inches from the exhaust valve where the temperature is hot and the velocity is high. Not a few feet of exhaust piping where the exhaust charge has plenty of time to cool.
EDIT: i need tires beat me.

kingkilburn
02-12-2008, 01:04 PM
Check out this guy's Q45
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=219609&page=2
Scroll down to a post by qsiguy.

smokins14
02-12-2008, 01:12 PM
my buddy has one on his 350z. Lag is not an issue for him at all. I can't remember what website it's on, but when I remember I will post it up.

hotlavaflow
02-12-2008, 01:18 PM
My turbos are low mounted (not rear mounted more like mid-mounted) and I had lag. I had to redesign the intercooler piping for better response. It worked out pretty nice. T28's off an R33 GTR. Originally they didn't really start spooling until about 3500rpm but with the X-pipe it starts at 2800rpm.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/hotlavaflow/TTKA7/Picture033.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/hotlavaflow/TTKA7/Picture042.jpg

I know a guy running the rear mount on a V6 and there is a bit of lag.

i need tires
02-12-2008, 01:22 PM
Check out this guy's Q45
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=219609&page=2
Scroll down to a post by qsiguy.

i like! very very nice set up!

allntrlundrgrnd
02-12-2008, 01:30 PM
damn thats a wild setup, what kinda car? 240?

azndoc
02-12-2008, 01:31 PM
I saw this kind of rear turbo set up on the speed channel before also.

Forgot what car it was.

But I wouldn't do it personally because of drifting and all the dirt drops that I do.

I'm pretty fine with the conventional set up.

i need tires
02-12-2008, 01:39 PM
damn thats a wild setup, what kinda car? 240?

not a 240... looks at the suspension

looks to be a FWD car.. perhaps honda?

Koopa Troopa
02-12-2008, 01:39 PM
i must be missing something here, because isnt that how a normal turbo setup works anyways, spooled by exhaust gases..


Dude, my SR with stock exhaust ports makes my T300/T04S .84 A/R reach .5 bar at 4500 RPM's. I can only imagine what'd I'd be spooling at if that turbo were under my fuel tank..

PRADOgy
02-12-2008, 01:40 PM
As crazy as it looks what i see is

the air being cooler by the time it reaches the turbo .. but also a hella lot more stress on the compressor.. like way more since back pressure.. idk its wierd.. i can see water fucking this up too getting into the compressor

steve shadows
02-12-2008, 01:42 PM
Remeber those are V8s with 2-3 times the displacement.

Koopa Troopa
02-12-2008, 01:48 PM
As crazy as it looks what i see is

the air being cooler by the time it reaches the turbo .. but also a hella lot more stress on the compressor.. like way more since back pressure.. idk its wierd.. i can see water fucking this up too getting into the compressor

You talking about exhaust gases cooling before it reaches the turbo? That'd be a bad thing because cooler gases carry less velocity which is why too big of an exhaust can be a bad thing.

i need tires
02-12-2008, 01:48 PM
Dude, my SR with stock exhaust ports makes my T300/T04S .84 A/R reach .5 bar at 4500 RPM's. I can only imagine what'd I'd be spooling at if that turbo were under my fuel tank..

rear mount the HKS turbo Koopa! :bowrofl:

hotlavaflow
02-12-2008, 01:53 PM
not a 240... looks at the suspension

looks to be a FWD car.. perhaps honda?

Yeah it's an Acura Legend
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/hotlavaflow/caged.jpg

vvtisupra
02-12-2008, 01:53 PM
hey guys how about since there is so much piping you wouldn't need a large front mount, which means not much change in volume to fill meaning not that much if any turbo lag considering their engines are 3 times the size of ours.... and if you had cats and you're mounting it way back there its catback making it easier to be legalalized

silnismo
02-12-2008, 02:00 PM
One of the dudes from freshalloy was in the process of a ka24dett rear mounted twin turbo setup. Its beens a while since he updated tho.

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172894&page=2&highlight=ka24dett

PRADOgy
02-12-2008, 02:02 PM
and if you had cats and you're mounting it way back there its catback making it easier to be legalalized

yes it is behind the cat but it doesnt go through the catalyst.. so....:confused:

lazy240
02-12-2008, 02:14 PM
hey the powerblock did the twin turbo set up for a corvette they were building dont know who it was for i know it was on spike thats all i know

tknbkthrsdy4anfg
02-12-2008, 02:15 PM
Yeah it's an Acura Legend
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/hotlavaflow/caged.jpg
Dude your car must be sky high to fit charge piping under it.
can you post a picture of your ground clearance?

Donesyboy
02-12-2008, 02:23 PM
wow never seen that before
hmmm gives me ideas for my mr2 ahaha jk

lazy240
02-12-2008, 02:24 PM
hey the powerblock did the twin turbo set up for a corvette they were building dont know who it was for i know it was on spike thats all i know

Risu2112
02-12-2008, 02:34 PM
hey guys how about since there is so much piping you wouldn't need a large front mount, which means not much change in volume to fill meaning not that much if any turbo lag considering their engines are 3 times the size of ours.... and if you had cats and you're mounting it way back there its catback making it easier to be legalalized

No, absolutely not.. This will be as difficult to legalize as any other non factory turbo under the hood. Your logic of "Behind the cat" doesn't apply because I ASSUME the turbo is connected back up to the engine (and thusly before the cat) in order to cram that air into the cylinders.

Although I guess it wouldn't be illegal to mount a turbo charger after the cat that didn't reroute to the engine, that would be a fun set up to see! har har har

fliprayzin240sx
02-12-2008, 02:41 PM
hey guys how about since there is so much piping you wouldn't need a large front mount, which means not much change in volume to fill meaning not that much if any turbo lag considering their engines are 3 times the size of ours.... and if you had cats and you're mounting it way back there its catback making it easier to be legalalized

My old co-worker in norcal has the STS kit on his WS6 Firebird. T-04E turbo iirc, made 480whp with the kit. When I left he was in the process of adding an aftercooler and going methanol injection to hit 600whp on stock everything.

THe only thing i hated about the setup was how low the pipe are that wraps under the damn rear axle. THeres this loop, that i shit you not, on his stock ride height was about 4 inches from getting ripped off. He was planning on fixing it but dont know if he got around to actually doing it. Also the other thing about it is the oil line and system for it. Since the turbo sits lower than the oil pan, you need a small oil pump to pump it back from the turbo.

SW20Racer
02-12-2008, 03:03 PM
wow never seen that before
hmmm gives me ideas for my mr2 ahaha jk

it would actually work well on an mr2, just put the turbo/turbos where the huge muffler used to be and have stainless blastpipes coming straight off the turbo/turbos it would really help cut down on the horrible underhood temps you can achieve with an mr2.

hotlavaflow
02-12-2008, 03:12 PM
Dude your car must be sky high to fit charge piping under it.
can you post a picture of your ground clearance?

I don't have anything great on the harddrive but it's not jacked up like one of those downsouth cars. I had it dropped before but had to bring it back up to stock height since the twins. But stock height on an Acura provides less wheel gap than stock height on a Nissan so once I install some flares it'll look good to me again. This is the closest I have for right now. I'll take some better pics later.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/hotlavaflow/antsview.jpg

KrazyZenki
02-12-2008, 05:44 PM
Here is a rear mounted t4088 on a C5 Z06 that the shop that did my car did. One of the cleanest rear mounts I have ever seen. They have turboed alot of v8s in the traditional way and said they noticed no additional lag on this setup.

Def
02-12-2008, 09:08 PM
Not a smart idea - turbos(turbines) derive power from exhaust pressure and HEAT.

It's an ok solution when your engine bay is tight and your other option is a centrifugal supercharger, but given that you can stuff a turbo as big nearly as big as your shortblock in the bay of an S chassis, I don't think it really applies to us.

ByeByeSti
02-12-2008, 11:10 PM
for cars that they dont really offer many options for such as my 12v v6 audi a4 its a good option besides the fact of it getting wet, or bottoming out, amongst other factors. i loooked into it when i first got my audi and then i about slapped myself for almost dumping money into the pig... with the turbo being set so far back its just creating a rediculous amount of turbo lag, even for smaller turbos.. as others said, the set up should be used on v8's only or v6's with little options for power, and cost effective for the mos part

kingkilburn
02-12-2008, 11:35 PM
Just make a cover for the turbo. No splashing and no impact.

I think this could be an option due to the ease of implementation. All the piping would be very straight forward. You could use whatever manifold you want.

I think my only worry would be getting my intake up and out of the way. Other than that it seems like cake.

Would there be room for it in that area under the rear seat?
(really just brain storming out loud, I'd rather swap in a JDM VH41)

sldbyuramg
02-13-2008, 12:55 AM
Jesus, I've never seen that in my life. I wonder if the power being produced is the same with a traditional turbo. BTW, does that have any benefit oppose to putting it in the front?


there is a camaro SS in SD that has a rear mounted turbo and one that also runs at the tracks...the SS that drives on the street makes huge power and claims there isnt any extra lag or loss on boost pressure. it sounds insane tho

importdude
02-13-2008, 01:06 AM
i think its awesome, some guy over at hmt
did it for his q45
let me get pics

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/qsiguy/Turbo_Q45/Finalassy09.jpg



http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/qsiguy/Turbo_Q45/?action=view&current=MVI_0090.flv

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/e9567cac-ceec-46a0-a478-9a0c013a146a.htm[/URL] (http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/qsiguy/Turbo_Q45/?action=view&current=MVI_0090.flv)



[URL="http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/qsiguy/Turbo_Q45/Finalassy09.jpg"] (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/qsiguy/Turbo_Q45/Finalassy09.jpg)

vodka2
02-13-2008, 01:26 AM
Get a fuel cell. Stick a turbo in ur exhaust. Get a carbon fiber defuser so shit wont hit it. go drift.

sldbyuramg
02-13-2008, 01:32 AM
Not a smart idea - turbos(turbines) derive power from exhaust pressure and HEAT.

It's an ok solution when your engine bay is tight and your other option is a centrifugal supercharger, but given that you can stuff a turbo as big nearly as big as your shortblock in the bay of an S chassis, I don't think it really applies to us.

turbos dont derive power from heat... they derive power from exhaust...and cold air. heat is the enemy of anything to do with cars. if you could somehow remove the heat from the exhaust it would in turn cool the air flowing into the intake and thus make more power. HEAT is definately not a source of power for a turbo

you are correct tho...it was designed for cars with a V shape motor...V6 & V8, who lack room for twin turbos or an extravigant exhaust manifold setup for a single turbo... so it doest apply. you can do it but it would be pointless

kingkilburn
02-13-2008, 01:39 AM
As long as you don't lose velocity the turbo doesn't care how fare it is from the engine.

kognition
02-13-2008, 01:39 AM
Wouldn't all that piping degrade the boost? All the cold rushing air cooling the pipes and lowering the boost pressure somewhat?

sldbyuramg
02-13-2008, 01:42 AM
Wouldn't all that piping degrade the boost? All the cold rushing air cooling the pipes and lowering the boost pressure somewhat?

as i have read and heard from a couple domestic tuners it doesnt degrade boost at all. strange stuff

yokotavia
02-13-2008, 02:31 AM
that q45 rear mount setup is hella clean.

and yeah...ground clearance would definatly be an issue for me. haha

WERDdabuilder
02-13-2008, 05:12 AM
was delivering one day to this domestic performance shop and saw a camaro parked out front. looked at the rear and saw the turbo poking out.

fliprayzin240sx
02-13-2008, 05:55 AM
The pipe actually acts as an intercooler. Ive seen somebody weld aluminum fins on the pipe to "catch" air and help keep the pipes cooler.

Kn1ves
02-13-2008, 06:10 AM
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0502_rear_mounted_turbo/index.html

Don't know why the link hasn't been posted yet

The intake tube, which runs up the driver's side of the car, displaces an internal volume that closely matches most front-mounted turbo systems installed with intercoolers. In simpler terms, a large compressor (the turbo) fills a small volume (the intake tube) in about 0.05 seconds with the STS Turbo system, resulting in very minimal lag.